Trib Opinion Piece Re: Church's Trans Policies

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

Poor comparison. The fact of the matter is that Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the actual registered proper name of a church organization that’s listed on official government records, documents that satisfy the requirements of law needed in order for the church organization to obtain legal recognition and a legally registered proper name.  Are the so-called “proper names” of which you speak actual legal proper names or merely popularly accepted labels?

They are what the people in the group prefer to call themselves. You can be a jerk and not use them.

And the name of the church is special because it is on a government document? Wow, that is just……..sad. Also popularly accepted labels typically become definitions. That is how language works.

[tana]

Sorry about using the wrong term. I didn't know.

Name that movie dialog - Yeah, well you are officers, you're grown ups, you ought to know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MustardSeed]

Nomenclature for these things changes often enough. I trust California’s explanations.  

Edited December 1, 2024 by MustardSeed

[Calm]

6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Are the so-called “proper names” of which you speak actual legal proper names or merely popularly accepted labels?

So if it’s legally documented that a biological male is a woman as it is in some countries, you are fine calling her a woman?  No debate on your part?

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

So if it’s legally documented that a biological male is a woman as it is in some countries, you are fine calling her a woman?  No debate on your part?

Well played.

[smac97]

On 11/30/2024 at 2:45 PM, The Nehor said:

Quote

About 99.99% of the time, a person's biological sex is readily apparent,

No, it is not anywhere near that high.

I think it is.  

On 11/30/2024 at 2:45 PM, The Nehor said:

Also the indicators we use have a lot more to do with presentation, clothing, hair styling, and the like. That is not biological sex being apparent. That is gender being apparent.

This seems like equivocation.

In my view, "gender" is either (A) a co-extensive synonym to "biological sex," or else it is (B) a undefinable and infinitely malleable pastiche of subjective generalizations and stereotypes about biological sex.  Either way, the vast majority of the time, a person's sex is readily apparent. 

On 11/30/2024 at 2:45 PM, The Nehor said:

We have enjoyed a recent rash of transphobes who insist they can tell when people are transgender and they routinely get it wrong.

I was not speaking of "transgender," which will often involve people intentionally dressing/acting in ways they know will be perceived as incongruent with their biological sex.

On 11/30/2024 at 2:45 PM, The Nehor said:

Quote

Until very recently, biological males were not attempting to compete in women's sports, go into women's spaces, etc., so there was no need to ask someone for a gamete sample.

And sports organizations are creating rules and criteria about that.

Until recently, these "rules and criteria" were unnecessary.  They are becoming increasingly so.

On 11/30/2024 at 2:45 PM, The Nehor said:

This is ignored because it is one of the outrage points polemics use.

I don't know what you mean here.  "{I}s ignored" by whom?  In what context?

On 11/30/2024 at 2:45 PM, The Nehor said:

I notice that there is less concern about trangender men

That is to say, biological women.

On 11/30/2024 at 2:45 PM, The Nehor said:

being forced to use a locker room or bathroom that matches the gender assigned at birth. These laws about “protection” will force some incredibly masculine looking transgender men into those spaces.  Why is this never addressed?

My sense (and I may be wrong about this) is A) that there are, in number, substantially more "trans women" than "trans men," B) that trans men are, in the main, being considerably less obtrusive, and C) in the context of men's sports and prisons, it is considerably rarer for trans men to be attempting to put themselves in those spaces.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

On 11/30/2024 at 3:15 PM, The Nehor said:

Quote

No it cannot. It’s ok to ask questions.  Did you know that no one else really uses the term SSA outside the church and its social teachings? 

That is not completely accurate. It is generally considered weird to use the term in casual conversation.

The Church's usage appears to be generally in more formal settings.  And non-exclusive, as "LGBT" is used extensively on the Church's website.  The website also includes this interesting bit: Why does the site use the term “same-sex attraction”?

Quote

“Same-sex attraction” refers to emotional, physical, romantic, or sexual attraction to a person of the same gender. People who experience same-sex attraction may or may not choose to use a sexual orientation label to describe themselves. Either way, same-sex attraction is a technical term describing the experience without imposing a label. This website uses this term to be inclusive of people who are not comfortable using a label—not to deny the existence of a gay, lesbian, or bisexual identity.

The most common labels are lesbian (a woman attracted to women), gay (a man attracted to men), and bisexual (a man or woman attracted to both genders). Some women may also use the term gay to describe themselves. People may use other labels, and some who experience same-sex attraction choose not to use a label to describe themselves. How people choose to identify may change over time.

This seems pretty reasonable.

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, smac97 said:

I think it is.

Then you are a prodigy since testing using photos of transgender and cis people shows that accuracy is not nearly that high. Hell, it is not that high just identifying only cis people by gender.

8 hours ago, smac97 said:

  This seems like equivocation.

In my view, "gender" is either (A) a co-extensive synonym to "biological sex," or else it is (B) a undefinable and infinitely malleable pastiche of subjective generalizations and stereotypes about biological sex.  Either way, the vast majority of the time, a person's sex is readily apparent. 

Your view and your false dichotomy are both incorrect.

8 hours ago, smac97 said:

I was not speaking of "transgender," which will often involve people intentionally dressing/acting in ways they know will be perceived as incongruent with their biological sex.

I was when I said ability to identify biological sex so not sure why you are running off into the weeds.

8 hours ago, smac97 said:

Until recently, these "rules and criteria" were unnecessary.  They are becoming increasingly so.

They’ll get over it.

8 hours ago, smac97 said:

I don't know what you mean here.  "{I}s ignored" by whom?  In what context?

Ignored by transphobes who want to keep using discredited points.

8 hours ago, smac97 said:

That is to say, biological women.

Technically accurate.

8 hours ago, smac97 said:

My sense (and I may be wrong about this) is A) that there are, in number, substantially more "trans women" than "trans men," B) that trans men are, in the main, being considerably less obtrusive, and C) in the context of men's sports and prisons, it is considerably rarer for trans men to be attempting to put themselves in those spaces.

Your sense comes almost entirely from media reporting from transphobic sources because it is transwomen they all scream about.

It is hard to pin down numbers but there isn’t that large a disparity. There are a lot more transwomen seeking gender-affirming surgery but there are a lot of physiological reasons for that. For transgender men just being on hormones does a lot of the cosmetic work.

Also they do go into those spaces. There are quite a few transgender men competing in men’s sports. This isn’t reported on because the propagandists don’t consider it to be scary and shocking and it doesn’t enrage people. The stated reason is often that they are less of a threat. I suspect the real reason is that they aren’t seen as a danger because it is unlikely straight men will find them attractive. Finding a transwoman attractive and discovering the ‘mistake’ later messes with a lot of straight men and often leads to violence.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, smac97 said:

The Church's usage appears to be generally in more formal settings.  And non-exclusive, as "LGBT" is used extensively on the Church's website.  The website also includes this interesting bit: Why does the site use the term “same-sex attraction”?

This seems pretty reasonable.

Thanks,

-Smac

It would except a lot of church members use SSA in casual conversations and believe they are following the church’s lead. They can do so of course but they aren’t going to make many friends using that terminology. If i was to start referring to all church members as Brighamites no one could stop me but members would not want to engage with me if I persisted.

[smac97]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It would except a lot of church members use SSA in casual conversations

First, that hasn't really been my experience, which is instead that most members, in both casual and formal speech (such as talks in church settings) mostly use "gay," "LGBT" and so on.

Second, I think SSA merits some consideration insofar as it describes what a person experiences, as opposed to what a person is.  

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

and believe they are following the church’s lead.

AFAICS, there has been no directive from the Church about using "SSA."  And the Church uses "LGBT" a lot also, so the interchangeable use seems to work.

Thanks,

-Smac

[MustardSeed]

3 minutes ago, smac97 said:

First, that hasn't really been my experience, which is instead that most members, in both casual and formal speech (such as talks in church settings) mostly use "gay," "LGBT" and so on.

Yep.  It used to be “ssa” but not any more.  Anecdotally it SEEMS the only time I hear SSA any more is from members of the church who appear to be less comfortable with LGBTQ lifestyles. 
 

 

[smac97]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Then you are a prodigy since testing using photos of transgender and cis people shows that accuracy is not nearly that high. Hell, it is not that high just identifying only cis people by gender.

Could you point me to studies regarding this "testing"?

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Quote

My sense (and I may be wrong about this) is A) that there are, in number, substantially more "trans women" than "trans men," B) that trans men are, in the main, being considerably less obtrusive, and C) in the context of men's sports and prisons, it is considerably rarer for trans men to be attempting to put themselves in those spaces.

It is hard to pin down numbers but there isn’t that large a disparity.

I suspect these things are hard to pin down because they are so nebulous.  Once the sexual binary is set aside in favor of some notion of a "spectrum," then we are situated all over the place.  And the placement is pretty much entirely subjective and self-diagnosed.  And the placement seems changeable over time.

Per this article, 40% of "trans" people describe themselves as "trans, nonbinary" and 22% as "trans, gender non-conforming" (notably, the article does not define either of these categories), with "trans men" and "trans women" at 22% and 12%, respectively.

This article cites a study showing a prevalence of 6.8 per 100,000 for MTF ("male to female") and 2.6 for FTM ("female to male").

Per this article:

Quote

Studies have consistently reported a greater prevalence of MTF than FTM.¹² A recent meta-review found a ratio of ∼2:1.¹

But again, due to vagueness and other issues, I think the numbers will always be difficult to ascertain.

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Also they do go into those spaces.

"They" being trans men?  I suppose so.  

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

There are quite a few transgender men competing in men’s sports.

Really?  How many?

Wikipedia has a list of "Transgender sportsmen," most of whom competed as women and/or against women, with very, very few in men's sports:

• Kye Allums - Trans man, college athlete (basketball), competed against women.
• Hergie Bacyadan - Trans man, boxer and kickboxer, "has competed in the women's division in all sports."
• Schuyler Bailar - Trans man, college athlete (swimming), swam all four years against men, per this article "finish{ed} last in every race in 2016, Bailar ended his swimming career at Harvard in the top 13% in the country in the men's breaststroke."
• Mack Beggs - Trans man, high school / college athlete (wrestling), wrestled in both women's and men's categories.
• Pierre Brésolles - Trans man, runner, competed against women.
• Harrison Browne - Trans man, pro ice hockey, competed against women.
• Balian Buschbaum - Trans man, pole vaulter, competed against women.
• Léon Caurla - Trans man, runner, competed against women.
• Leonard Chalmers - Trans man, Olympic athlete, competed against women.
• Willy De Bruyn - Trans man, Belgian cyclist, competed against women.
• Fenix FC (Catalonia) - "[A} Spanish Regional League fifth-tier football team consisting entirely of trans men. ... The team played their first official match against Palleja CF B {a men's team} on September 21, 2024 and lost 19-0."
• Keelin Godsey - Trans man, hammer throw, competed against women.
• Ellia Green - Trans man,  Australian rugby union and rugby league player, competed against women.
• Edwin Halstead - Trans man, javelin, competed against women.
• Iszac Henig - Trans man, swimmer, competed against both women and men, as to the latter, "he swam in the June 2022 Ohio State Invitational, he took from 69th to 79th places in the 50, 100, and 200-yard men's freestyle events."
• Kagetsu - Trans man, wrestler, competed against women.
• Zdeněk Koubek - Trans man, track athlete, competed against women.
• Andreas Krieger - Trans man, shot put, competed against women.
• Luca Kumahara - Trans man, table tennis, competed against women.
• Patricio Manuel - Trans man, professional boxer, boxed in both women's and men's categories.
• Chris Mosier - Trans man, triathlete, duathlete, and racewalker, competed in both women's and men's categories.
• Jay Mulucha - Trans man, basketball, competed against women.
• Alex Poon - Trans man, competed in both women's (swimming) and men's (water polo) categories.
• Ricardo del Real - Trans man, Olympic taekwondo athlete, competed against women.
• Leon Reuterström - Trans man, ice hockey, competed against women.
• Loui Sand - Trans man, handball, competed in both women's and men's categories.
• Go Shindo - Trans man, pro boxer, competed against women.
• Witold Smętek - Trans man, "javelin thrower, runner, handball player, table tennis player," competed against women.
• Verity Smith - Trans man, rugby, competed against women.
• Mark Weston (athlete) - Trans man, field athlete, competed against women.
• Kumi Yokoyama - Trans man, footballer, competed against women.

I think a list of trans women - biological males - competing in women's sports would not only be considerably longer, but they are doing a lot better than the very few trans men - biological women - competing against men.

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

This isn’t reported on because the propagandists don’t consider it to be scary and shocking and it doesn’t enrage people.

Could you provide a list?  I would like to better understand this.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited December 2, 2024 by smac97

[Duncan]

5 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Could you point me to studies regarding this "testing"?

I suspect these things are hard to pin down because they are so nebulous.  Once the sexual binary is set aside in favor of some notion of a "spectrum," then we are situated all over the place.  And the placement is pretty much entirely subjective and self-diagnosed.  And the placement seems changeable over time.

Per this article, 40% of "trans" people describe themselves as "trans, nonbinary" and 22% as "trans, gender non-conforming" (notably, the article does not define either of these categories), with "trans men" and "trans women" at 22% and 12%, respectively.

This article cites a study showing a prevalence of 6.8 per 100,000 for MTF ("male to female") and 2.6 for FTM ("female to male").

Per this article:

But again, due to vagueness and other issues, I think the numbers will always be difficult to ascertain.

"They" being trans men?  I suppose so.  

Really?  How many?

Wikipedia has a list of "Transgender sportsmen," most of whom competed as women and/or against women, with very, very few in men's sports:

• Kye Allums - Trans man, college athlete (basketball), competed against women.
• Hergie Bacyadan - Trans man, boxer and kickboxer, "has competed in the women's division in all sports."
• Schuyler Bailar - Trans man, college athlete (swimming), swam all four years against men, per this article "finish{ed} last in every race in 2016, Bailar ended his swimming career at Harvard in the top 13% in the country in the men's breaststroke."
• Mack Beggs - Trans man, high school / college athlete (wrestling), wrestled in both women's and men's categories.
• Pierre Brésolles - Trans man, runner, competed against women.
• Harrison Browne - Trans man, pro ice hockey, competed against women.
• Balian Buschbaum - Trans man, pole vaulter, competed against women.
• Léon Caurla - Trans man, runner, competed against women.
• Leonard Chalmers - Trans man, Olympic athlete, competed against women.
• Willy De Bruyn - Trans man, Belgian cyclist, competed against women.
• Fenix FC (Catalonia) - "[A} Spanish Regional League fifth-tier football team consisting entirely of trans men. ... The team played their first official match against Palleja CF B {a men's team} on September 21, 2024 and lost 19-0."
• Keelin Godsey - Trans man, hammer throw, competed against women.
• Ellia Green - Trans man,  Australian rugby union and rugby league player, competed against women.
• Edwin Halstead - Trans man, javelin, competed against women.
• Iszac Henig - Trans man, swimmer, competed against both women and men, as to the latter, "he swam in the June 2022 Ohio State Invitational, he took from 69th to 79th places in the 50, 100, and 200-yard men's freestyle events."
• Kagetsu - Trans man, wrestler, competed against women.
• Zdeněk Koubek - Trans man, track athlete, competed against women.
• Andreas Krieger - Trans man, shot put, competed against women.
• Luca Kumahara - Trans man, table tennis, competed against women.
• Patricio Manuel - Trans man, professional boxer, boxed in both women's and men's categories.
• Chris Mosier - Trans man, triathlete, duathlete, and racewalker, competed in both women's and men's categories.
• Jay Mulucha - Trans man, basketball, competed against women.
• Alex Poon - Trans man, competed in both women's (swimming) and men's (water polo) categories.
• Ricardo del Real - Trans man, Olympic taekwondo athlete, competed against women.
• Leon Reuterström - Trans man, ice hockey, competed against women.
• Loui Sand - Trans man, handball, competed in both women's and men's categories.
• Go Shindo - Trans man, pro boxer, competed against women.
• Witold Smętek - Trans man, "javelin thrower, runner, handball player, table tennis player," competed against women.
• Verity Smith - Trans man, rugby, competed against women.
• Mark Weston (athlete) - Trans man, field athlete, competed against women.
• Kumi Yokoyama - Trans man, footballer, competed against women.

I think a list of trans women - biological males - competing in women's sports would not only be considerably longer, but they are doing a lot better than the very few trans men - biological women - competing against men.

Could you provide a list?  I would like to better understand this.

Thanks,

-Smac

Leon Reuterström transitioned after they were in hockey, so you can take them off the list

[smac97]

17 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Leon Reuterström transitioned after they were in hockey, so you can take them off the list

Several of the athletes in Wikipedia's "Transgender sportsmen" category transitioned after their athletic career ended.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Duncan]

1 minute ago, smac97 said:

Several of the athletes in Wikipedia's "Transgender sportsmen" category transitioned after their athletic career ended.

Thanks,

-Smac

so you can take them all off the list as well

[smac97]

46 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Quote

Several of the athletes in Wikipedia's "Transgender sportsmen" category transitioned after their athletic career ended.

so you can take them all off the list as well

If there are "quite a few transgender men competing in men's sports," I would like to see some examples, and Wikipedia seemed like a good place to start.  The category in Wikipedia seems heavily padded with trans men (that is, biologically male) athletes who transitioned after their athletic careers, and/or who completed against women.

I am happy to be corrected.

Thanks,

-Smac

[california boy]

I did a quick search to see what happens when a male transitions to female and why that might relate to their athletic performances 

 

Quote

A post-op transgender woman will always have lower testosterone levels than a cis-female. This is because they no longer have testicles. Any remaining testosterone in their body would have to come from their adrenal glands the same as they would in cis-females.

 

Quote

 

Muscle loss (and an increase in body fat) is a common side effect of hormone therapy. Hormones tamp down the production of testosterone, a male hormone that plays a role in developing and maintaining muscle mass. (Hormone therapy can also lead to bone loss, so be sure your doctor is on the lookout for osteoporosis.)Sep 29, 

 

 

Quote

 

Initial Changes: Typically, trans women can start to experience a decrease in muscle mass and strength within the first 3-6 months of starting HRT. Continued Progression: Over the course of 1-2 years, these changes become more pronounced as the body adjusts to the new hormone levels.

 

Quote

Compared with cisgender men, transgender women have lower bone mass and cortical size even prior to initiation of hormone therapy, suggesting sex steroid-independent effects in these individuals.Jan 17, 2020

 

This might explain why there are very few trans women dominating any sports they participate in.  It might be a more level playing field than the hysteria about having trans women enter sports.

From the news hysteria, they make it sound like trans women are taking over sports and winning all the championship because of supposed physical advantage.  That apparently is not true either

What percent of female athletes are trans?

 

 

Quote

For starters, consider the strikingly minuscule number of total trans athletes, let alone trans women competing in collegiate athletics: Out of the more than 500,000 athletes that compete in the National Collegiate Athletic Association, an estimated 4o are trans. That's less than 0.008 percent.Apr 16, 2024

 

[california boy]

I was interested to find out exactly how many trans women have actually won any national and international titles.  Found out that in all of the multi thousands of championships and since there are a half million women in college sports alone, there have only been 23 trans women who have won national and international titles.

When you take a look at even those scant 23 titles, some are in sports where I would think body strength really didn't play much of a factor and some were just part of entire team competing.  Here are a few that I am referring to.

 

Quote

 

Jamie Hunter

The billiards player won her first major ranking event when she took the 2022 US Women’s Snooker Open title.

Victoria Monaghan

Monaghan won the New Zealand Open darts championship in 2022 and is the first out trans woman to compete in the World Championships. She was previously a ranked national player in the male category.

Natalie Ryan

Ryan won two major competitions in Professional Disc Golf (otherwise known as Freezbe  Golf) Association’s elite tier in 2022, including the MVP Open. @natalieryan114560

Kate Weatherly

Mountain biker Kate Weatherly has won two national titles, including the downhill race in the New Zealand national championships in February 2018 and another race title in 2022. @kateweatherlymtb

Chelsea Wolfe

The BMX rider won a UCI USA BMX Freestyle event in Texas in 2022, shortly after the state advanced anti-trans policy. @chelseawolfebmx

 

Not really sports where physical strength play a significant role.  I am beginning to reevaluate my position on trans women participating in women's sports.  Doesn't seem like there is nearly as big of advantage as I was led to believe

 

[tana]

 Maybe someone has already said this but, I think it is OK for a person to simultaneously hold viewpoints of supporting transgenderism but not supporting transitioned males competing in certain sanctioned sports against females.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I did a quick search to see what happens when a male transitions to female and why that might relate to their athletic performances 

 

 

 

 

 

This might explain why there are very few trans women dominating any sports they participate in.  It might be a more level playing field than the hysteria about having trans women enter sports.

From the news hysteria, they make it sound like trans women are taking over sports and winning all the championship because of supposed physical advantage.  That apparently is not true either

 

What percent of female athletes are trans?

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I was interested to find out exactly how many trans women have actually won any national and international titles.  Found out that in all of the multi thousands of championships and since there are a half million women in college sports alone, there have only been 23 trans women who have won national and international titles.

When you take a look at even those scant 23 titles, some are in sports where I would think body strength really didn't play much of a factor and some were just part of entire team competing.  Here are a few that I am referring to.

 

Not really sports where physical strength play a significant role.  I am beginning to reevaluate my position on trans women participating in women's sports.  Doesn't seem like there is nearly as big of advantage as I was led to believe

 

I do think you have a good point about it mattering what sport they are in.

i think 23 out of 40 winning national and international titles is quite high though.

[Mfbnew]

On 11/19/2024 at 8:57 AM, smac97 said:

I would like to hear the thoughts of people with varying perspectives on trans issues in relation to this Opinion piece published today in the Salt Lake Tribune: 

 

It's wonderful that you read the newspaper.  It seems that most of your numerous posts are based on the Tribune.

It would be nice to see more posts from you that are based on something a bit more scholarly

[california boy]

37 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

I do think you have a good point about it mattering what sport they are in.

i think 23 out of 40 winning national and international titles is quite high though.

Where did you get the 40 number??  The article I read only listed 23 trans women winning any national or international championships.  Since they included all championships including darts, I would think the total number of championships would be way more than 40.  The Olympics alone has over 400 events to medal in with about 3,000 athletes competing.  There has never been a trans woman win a gold medal, ever.  

Even with that, many championships are entire teams such as football which has 53 players or basketball with 18 players.  

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2024 by california boy

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, tana said:

 Maybe someone has already said this but, I think it is OK for a person to simultaneously hold viewpoints of supporting transgenderism but not supporting transitioned males competing in certain sanctioned sports against females.

As long as we are careful to cede jurisdiction of such matters to the sports organizations in charge. A lot of harm (recently to a young high school basketball player in Utah) when people publicly speculate over who is trans. 

[Calm]

57 minutes ago, california boy said:

Where did you get the 40 number??

My guess is she got it from the 40  transgender athletes estimated currently participating in college sports.  I think she assumed you were using the same categories when you actually switched mout of college and went to all national and international sports iirc…because I assumed you were going to do that.

A better number would be to find out what percentage of trans women athletes take any awards and compare it to biological women’s percentage imo to see if as a group they do better.  If percentage wise transgender atheletes do better in women’s sports, it seems likely there is an advantage.  It would make sense to include all sports and then those that are more physically oriented to see if there is a difference as well.  
 

The numbers of those involved may be very small.  And it may be there is more harm done to biofemale athletes if methods use to exclude trans women are highly intrusive.  If so, I think the two issues need to be weighed to see which is the most beneficial….if there is an advantage.

For me though, it is not only about the trophies, scholarships, etc (the money and prestige side of it), it is also the safety issue.  I would like to see rates of injury in games involving transgendered Individuals vs not.  I would want it to include all injuries because there may be multiple variable involved…perhaps someone used to playing with males plays more aggressively and therefore the other team responds aggressively and someone gets hurt even if the transgender individual was not the one injuring the other.

There may be no significant difference.  I am making no assumptions.

Edited December 3, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

3 hours ago, california boy said:

I did a quick search to see what happens when a male transitions to female and why that might relate to their athletic performances 

This might explain why there are very few trans women dominating any sports they participate in.  It might be a more level playing field than the hysteria about having trans women enter sports.

From the news hysteria, they make it sound like trans women are taking over sports and winning all the championship because of supposed physical advantage.  That apparently is not true either

 

What percent of female athletes are trans?

 

The small number of actual players can backfire though as I can see an argument that allowing trans players creates significant additional work and concerns for a multitude of people while benefiting very few, so better overall not to allow them.

Or whatever variation of few benefit, so not worth it argument.

As in if there are only a couple of kids in the whole state, why change the rules?  It wouldn’t make sense to spend a ton of money for ramps to be included in every school if only one or two out of a hundred schools actually needed one, for example.

(I am not making or against this argument, just stating it, so not going into details).  Am curious about responses.

Edited December 3, 2024 by Calm