How would the world look like if everyone was a Saint?

[Dario_M]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

You are assuming things again. I am not angry.  I am frustrated when you assume bad things about me and others. 

I have never said that you or any other non LDS member is perse bad. I think you see to much behind my post. 

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Okay chill out. Why are you being so angry at me? 

You were rather insulting to her. You may not realize it or intended it, but that is how it read to me.  I also thought her response was rather calm and not that angry, just correcting your misperceptions.

[Dario_M]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

You were rather insulting to her.

That's not true. I have never insulted her in any way sorry. I've been very respectfull to Rain. But there must be room for a discussion and dialoque as well right? 

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

You may not realize it or intended it,

I did not intend to insult her at all. Why should i. 

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

but that is how it read to me.

Okay. I find that unfortunate. 

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

 I also thought her response was rather calm and not that angry, just correcting your misperceptions.

The last part of the post i experienced as kinda hostile. But no problem. I'm allready used to that throughout my life from differend kinds of people. 

Edited November 2, 2024 by Dario_M

[Rain]

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

No kidding right. But you also know that there is a change between people who live the LDS life and people who don't. 

No, I know there is a change in people when they try to live a better life.  That may be in the church or it may be out of the church.

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

I'm not agree with this. This should not matter in my opinion. The most people that live on the planet are not an LDS member or from any other church. And take a look around how this world has become for place. 

Some parts of the world have people that are truly awful to other people. That is correct. As someone who works with refugees I am well aware of how badly people can treat others.

But that also means I'm aware of how good people treat others.

But, the point in telling you what I did was to show you I DO like and love people who are members and not just people out of the church.  That I DO find good people in, and out, of the church.

 

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Yes. But this is in your local reality.

Actually, it's not. Part of what I do is talk with people from all over the world, whether they are living here now or are still living elsewhere. 

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

There are also a lot of amazing people in the Netherlands. And most of them are not even from the LDS community.

Yes, this was my point. That there are many very good people out of the church.

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

But the Netherlands is not the whole world. The Netherlands is just a small country. Just a dot. That doesn't represent the whole world.

You are right, but I know a good man from Switzerland, a good woman from Cameroon, and a good man from Iran and a good man from the Congo and I could go on. Even in the places where people have done truly awful things to each other you can still find very good people, members or not, who are doing beautiful things.

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

You know this. You have traveled a lot.

 

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

You have also been in Portugal...like me.

I have been to Portugal, but I actually never ran into someone who was hurtful. I actually found people there more kind and helpful than most other places I've been.  My experiences were different than yours. I'm sorry you had bad experiences there, but I would love to go back.

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

And what you see is a difference in mentality and humanity.

I think about the bigger picture. The bigger reality. Not just the local charity shop from next door. 

My "local" charity shop looks at the bigger reality.  That's why it started.  It looks at Syria, Sudan, Afghanistan, Ukraine, the Congo, Cuba, Venezuela, Guatemala, Burma, Nicaragua, Eritrea,...I could go on, but I hope you get my point. 

I love that the church teaches people to serve and love others. I love that other churches and organizations or people who are not members teach that as well. Since we are all imperfect, it's good to have those teachings whatever religion or organization we may be in.

[Dario_M]

Okay well..i'm going for a walk now. Otherwise we're keep going on and on with this dialoque. And i just woke up so i'm still a bit tired as well. I wish you lady's a pleasant night....there on the other side of the ocean. 🌊🌌🌠

Edited November 2, 2024 by Dario_M

[rpn]

A slightly better version of the current world?    Still each mortal.  Still each trying.  Still each imperfect.    Leaving behind all the intentional wickedness, but that leaves lots of  not ideal things?

[Dario_M]

15 minutes ago, rpn said:

A slightly better version of the current world?    Still each mortal.  Still each trying.  Still each imperfect.    Leaving behind all the intentional wickedness, but that leaves lots of  not ideal things?

I wouldn't call it a slightly better version of the current world of today. I think that the world would improve a lot. Look at Utah for example. 

[california boy]

On 11/1/2024 at 8:08 AM, Dario_M said:

Look at the United States for example. What is the safest state of the United States? Utah. Safest large city's? Salt Lake City and Provo. And isn't it quite a coincidence that most saints happen to live in that exact region? Because...the rest of the United States is just significant less safe. Especially in the biger city's. 

 

Why do you assume Utah is the safest state in the United States.  It isn't even in the top 10 safest states in the US.

According to FBI data the states with the least amount of violent crime are.

1. New Hampshire
2. Maine
3. Idaho
4. Rhode Island
5. Connecticut
6. New Jersey
7. Kentucky
8. Massachusetts
9. West Virginia
10. Iowa

 

I am curious why you thought Utah was the safest state?  Did you read that somewhere?  Or did you just assume it was.  Perhaps it should be, but belonging to any religion is not what makes someone a good person.  It is how they choose to live their lives.  While a religion can guide people to be moral, it is not what makes them moral.  

Edited November 2, 2024 by california boy

[Dario_M]

20 minutes ago, california boy said:

 

Why do you assume Utah is the safest state in the United States.  It isn't even in the top 10 safest states in the US.

According to FBI data the states with the least amount of violent crime are.

1. New Hampshire
2. Maine
3. Idaho
4. Rhode Island
5. Connecticut
6. New Jersey
7. Kentucky
8. Massachusetts
9. West Virginia
10. Iowa

 

 

How reliable is this data? Because i'm going to be honest. I absolutely do not believe that Massachusetts is safer then Utah. I know that Boston is a part of Massachusetts. And i also know that Boston is not a save city at all. The crime rates are quite high. So there is no way that Massachusetts can be more safer then Utah. If you give me a moment i will look up the crime rates of Boston and post a link here. Give me a moment please. 

https://www.geoffreygnathanlaw.com/topics/cities-in-massachusetts-with-the-most-and-least-violent-crimes/

I'm afrait the data you have send me is not that relaible. Massachusetts is not save at all. With Springfield on the top of most dangerous city of massachusetts. After Springfield it is Boston. The state of Massachusetts is absolutely not seen as a save state at all. Read the link. 

Edited November 2, 2024 by Dario_M

[california boy]

3 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

How reliable is this data? Because i'm going to be honest. I absolutely do not believe that Massachusetts is safer then Utah. I know that Boston is a part of Massachusetts. And i also know that Boston is not a save city at all. The crime rates are quite high. So there is no way that Massachusetts can be more safer then Utah. If you give me a moment i will look up the crime rates of Boston and post a link here. Give me a moment please. 

Are you just assuming these things or do you have data that actually reports what is going on.  Where are you getting this information?  

[Dario_M]

2 minutes ago, california boy said:

Are you just assuming these things or do you have data that actually reports what is going on.  Where are you getting this information?  

I said give me a moment because i needed some time to post a link to back up my claim. Read the link i have added.

[MustardSeed]

You said Utah, which is a state.
Boston is a city within a state.  If you’re gonna debate, you need to decide if you’re going to discuss cities or states.

[Dario_M]

For the rest i have made the choice to not replay on your posts for the rest of this evening California Boy. 

Edited November 2, 2024 by Dario_M

[MustardSeed]

3 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

You said Utah, which is a state.
Boston is a city within a state.  If you’re gonna debate, you need to decide if you’re going to discuss cities or states.

Why the dowvote, curious. 

[Peacefully]

I think you may be assuming too much about Utah and the Latter-day Saints therein. There are active members, inactive members, less active members and non-members. I don’t believe active members are a majority. Also, Utah seems to have the same problems as all of the other states - crime, homelessness, etc. There are very good and very bad people inside and outside of the LDS church so making the assumption that everything would be better if everyone became a member is a stretch. I think the only way everything gets better is when everyone loves God (their higher power) and loves, truly loves, their neighbor. Becoming a saint is not required. 

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

How reliable is this data? Because i'm going to be honest. I absolutely do not believe that Massachusetts is safer then Utah.

Know that Utah today is not a majority LDS anymore. When comparing Utah to other states in terms of safety and happiness, Utah often ranks very well, thanks to low crime rates, strong community ties, and a high quality of life. Factors contributing to Utah's positive standing include outdoor recreational opportunities, family-oriented values, and good education systems.

However, what is the "safest" and "happiest" states can vary depending on the criteria used. For example, states like Massachusetts or Vermont may score higher in some happiness metrics due to factors like healthcare access and social services, while states like Maine or New Hampshire often rank high in safety.

To gauge how far Utah is from being the safest and happiest you'd need to compare specific metrics such as crime rates, mental health statistics, and overall well-being indicators against those of other states. 

Massachusetts tends to be safer in terms of violent crime and healthcare access.

Utah may be safer regarding property crime and community ties.

The sources of violent crime in Utah is complex. Utah has experienced significant population growth, including migration from other states. While this can lead to economic opportunities, it can also strain resources and contribute to social tensions, potentially impacting crime rates. Poverty can be underlying factors in violent crime, although Utah generally has a strong economy. In some areas, particularly with high growth rates, these issues might still emerge. The state faces the same challenges the region faces with substance abuse, particularly related to opioid use and methamphetamines, which can be linked to increases in crime.

To see what a true LDS majority looks like, Provo, UT, 95% LDS, often ranks highly for safety and happiness due to its low crime rates and strong community engagement. Factors like access to nature, educational opportunities, and a family-friendly environment contribute to its positive reputation. 

Provo, UT, is often cited as one of the safer cities in the United States. Various rankings and reports on crime rates frequently highlight Provo for its low rates of violent crime and property crime compared to national averages. For instance, sources like NeighborhoodScout and FBI crime reports typically indicate that Provo has a lower crime rate than many other urban areas.

Factors that contributing to Provo's safety include its community-oriented culture, active law enforcement, and strong social networks. Of course, crime rates can vary year by year, so it’s always good to check the latest statistics or local reports for the most current information.

How much the LDS factors into an area's safety can depend. For instance, its wasn't uncommon to hear news a non-Utahan non-LDS man was in Utah and easily tricked a trusting LDS women into their car and kidnap them. Even if the culture is generally wholesome can be a magnet for crime.

Edited November 2, 2024 by Pyreaux

[MustardSeed]

14 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Know that Utah today is not a majority LDS anymore. When comparing Utah to other states in terms of safety and happiness, Utah often ranks very well, thanks to low crime rates, strong community ties, and a high quality of life. Factors contributing to Utah's positive standing include outdoor recreational opportunities, family-oriented values, and good education systems.

However, what is the "safest" and "happiest" states can vary depending on the criteria used. For example, states like Massachusetts or Vermont may score higher in some happiness metrics due to factors like healthcare access and social services, while states like Maine or New Hampshire often rank high in safety.

To gauge how far Utah is from being the safest and happiest you'd need to compare specific metrics such as crime rates, mental health statistics, and overall well-being indicators against those of other states. 

Massachusetts tends to be safer in terms of violent crime and healthcare access.

Utah may be safer regarding property crime and community ties.

The sources of violent crime in Utah is complex. Utah has experienced significant population growth, including migration from other states. While this can lead to economic opportunities, it can also strain resources and contribute to social tensions, potentially impacting crime rates. Poverty can be underlying factors in violent crime, although Utah generally has a strong economy. In some areas, particularly with high growth rates, these issues might still emerge. The state faces the same challenges the region faces with substance abuse, particularly related to opioid use and methamphetamines, which can be linked to increases in crime.

To see what a true LDS majority looks like, Provo, UT, 95% LDS, often ranks highly for safety and happiness due to its low crime rates and strong community engagement. Factors like access to nature, educational opportunities, and a family-friendly environment contribute to its positive reputation. 

Provo, UT, is often cited as one of the safer cities in the United States. Various rankings and reports on crime rates frequently highlight Provo for its low rates of violent crime and property crime compared to national averages. For instance, sources like NeighborhoodScout and FBI crime reports typically indicate that Provo has a lower crime rate than many other urban areas.

Factors that contributing to Provo's safety include its community-oriented culture, active law enforcement, and strong social networks. Of course, crime rates can vary year by year, so it’s always good to check the latest statistics or local reports for the most current information.

How much the LDS factors into an area's safety can depend. For instance, its wasn't uncommon to hear news a non-Utahan non-LDS man was in Utah and easily tricked a trusting LDS women into their car and kidnap them. Even if the culture is generally wholesome can be a magnet for crime.

Give or take, about 80% of all the crimes against me ( vandalism, theft, indecent exposure, attempted rp/murder) all occurred in Provo. What’s that, 90% LDS? 

[Dario_M]

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Know that Utah today is not a majority LDS anymore.

Yeah. But that is because people from other places go to Utah to live there because they know Utah has such a good welth system. The only problem with those course of events is that those people don't have the same values as the people from Utah have. So result.......crime rates go higher. But it wasn't like that in the past. 

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

When comparing Utah to other states in terms of safety and happiness, Utah often ranks very well, thanks to low crime rates, strong community ties, and a high quality of life. Factors contributing to Utah's positive standing include outdoor recreational opportunities, family-oriented values, and good education systems.

This 100%💯

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

However, what is the "safest" and "happiest" states can vary depending on the criteria used. For example, states like Massachusetts or Vermont may score higher in some happiness metrics due to factors like healthcare access and social services, while states like Maine or New Hampshire often rank high in safety.

But i absolutely know that Massachusetts is not safer then Utah. I don't know who have made up these data. But i don't believe that at all. 

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

To gauge how far Utah is from being the safest and happiest you'd need to compare specific metrics such as crime rates, mental health statistics, and overall well-being indicators against those of other states. 

Massachusetts tends to be safer in terms of violent crime and healthcare access.

Well...i just have post a link about Massachusetts and that Massachusetts is not that safe after all. 

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Utah may be safer regarding property crime and community ties.

Regarding everything if you ask me. 

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

The sources of violent crime in Utah is complex. Utah has experienced significant population growth, including migration from other states.

Yeah that's a bummer indeed. They never should have done that. Because it has changed the whole dynamics of Utah. 

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

While this can lead to economic opportunities, it can also strain resources and contribute to social tensions, potentially impacting crime rates. Poverty can be underlying factors in violent crime, although Utah generally has a strong economy. In some areas, particularly with high growth rates, these issues might still emerge. The state faces the same challenges the region faces with substance abuse, particularly related to opioid use and methamphetamines, which can be linked to increases in crime.

Yeah but those rates generally doesn't come from the locals up there. 

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

To see what a true LDS majority looks like, Provo, UT, 95% LDS, often ranks highly for safety and happiness due to its low crime rates and strong community engagement. Factors like access to nature, educational opportunities, and a family-friendly environment contribute to its positive reputation. 

Provo, UT, is often cited as one of the safer cities in the United States. Various rankings and reports on crime rates frequently highlight Provo for its low rates of violent crime and property crime compared to national averages. For instance, sources like NeighborhoodScout and FBI crime reports typically indicate that Provo has a lower crime rate than many other urban areas.

I believe that immediately. 

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Factors that contributing to Provo's safety include its community-oriented culture, active law enforcement, and strong social networks. Of course, crime rates can vary year by year, so it’s always good to check the latest statistics or local reports for the most current information. If you're looking for specific data or recent rankings, I can help summarize that!

Please feel free to do that. I would love to check the newest Data. 

 

[Dario_M]

3 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Give or take, about 80% of all the crimes against me ( vandalism, theft, indecent exposure, attempted rp/murder) all occurred in Provo. What’s that, 90% LDS? 

Can you show us proof of that? To back up this claim? 

[bluebell]

15 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Can you show us proof of that? To back up this claim? 

Has anyone in this thread been asked to prove the personal positives that they have experienced in Utah?

I lived in Utah for 11 years.  It's a wonderful place but it has a lot of crime too.  And it has it's fair share of members that are judgemental, self righteous, and sinful.  The members there are no better than the members anywhere else.

(For comparison, I've also lived in Idaho, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, and California).

[Dario_M]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Has anyone in this thread been asked to prove the personal positives that they have experienced in Utah?

No. And i don't believe it really matters either. 

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The members there are no better than the members anywhere else.

I never said that. 

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

(For comparison, I've also lived in Idaho, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, and California).

Okay. That's nice. 

[Pyreaux]

46 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Give or take, about 80% of all the crimes against me ( vandalism, theft, indecent exposure, attempted rp/murder) all occurred in Provo. What’s that, 90% LDS? 

Your milage may very.

[MustardSeed]

32 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Your milage may very.

I hope so. 

[rpn]

5 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I think that the world would improve a lot. Look at Utah for example. 

Huh?

[Calm]

16 hours ago, Dario_M said:

The last part of the post i experienced as kinda hostile. But no problem. I'm allready used to that throughout my life from differend kinds of people. 

Have you considered that your prior experience with hostility has made you reasonably defensive (if you are frequently attacked, it is wise to protect yourself before an attack), but has also perhaps led you to see hostility where there isn’t any?  You can obviously see that mistakes are made by other people seeing you as hostile when you are not. And in the past you have accepted that people didn’t intend to come across as hostile to you. 
 

Maybe in the future it would be more effective to assume from the beginning without waiting for them to explain that someone is more likely frustrated than hostile.  It would likely lead to you feeling less upset because it must hurt at least a little and sometimes a lot when someone is hostile to you and likely the same when you believe someone is hostile when they are not. 
 

Most of the time on this board when you have said someone is angry or hostile to you I am reading their behavior as frustration.

I naturally assume when you come across as hostile to me that you are frustrated and it is communication issues that make it sound like hostility to me. 

Even people who share a language constantly misinterpret feelings of others online and off. I have lost count of the number of times I have been told I am angry or hurt when all I am is curious and asking questions or critiquing what looks to me is a poor argument.***

I find it saves energy, mental and emotional, and lots of time in writing posts to just assume that someone is at most frustrated and make the effort to be clearer in my comments or ask them to clarify their position if I care than to respond to them as if they are attacking me or mine.
 

***The only time I really get angry is when friends are accused of lying and most of the time not even then, but there is something about the accusation of dishonesty that bothers me.

Edited November 3, 2024 by Calm