Popular Post Okrahomer Posted November 3, 2024 Popular Post Posted November 3, 2024 7 hours ago, california boy said: Why do you assume Utah is the safest state in the United States. It isn't even in the top 10 safest states in the US. Not that is matters much, but according to Wiki, Utah is the 10th safest State. It looks like both rankings are based on FBI data from 2022, but U.S News incorporates property crime into their rankings, while Wiki limits their ranking to violent crime only. 7
california boy Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Okrahomer said: Not that is matters much, but according to Wiki, Utah is the 10th safest State. It looks like both rankings are based on FBI data from 2022, but U.S News incorporates property crime into their rankings, while Wiki limits their ranking to violent crime only. I tried to give you an up vote, but for some reason the system wasn't allowing it. But thanks for your reply Edit: I tried one more time and it worked. Must have been a glitch Edited November 3, 2024 by california boy 1
Calm Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 Just now, california boy said: tried to give you an up vote, but for some reason the system wasn't allowing it. You might have maxed out on rep pointing in the last 24 hours.
california boy Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 Just now, Calm said: You might have maxed out on rep pointing in the last 24 hours. Thanks. i got it to work after all. Not sure why it didn't let me the first time.
Calm Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 16 minutes ago, california boy said: Thanks. i got it to work after all. Not sure why it didn't let me the first time. It is possible just a glitch, but even a few minutes can make a difference with maxing out. However, if you didn’t get a notice, it was probably a glitch. The board has been glitching for me in a few ways today with screenshots. 1
Popular Post MiserereNobis Posted November 3, 2024 Popular Post Posted November 3, 2024 18 hours ago, Dario_M said: But you also know that there is a change between people who live the LDS life and people who don't. Pssst, Dario, you're not living the LDS life: you are actively breaking the Law of Chastity (one of the biggest LDS laws). You also say you drink alcohol. Also, you keep asserting your opinions as facts here, even when you are offered direct evidence to the contrary, such as which state and city is the safest in the US. You've never even been here. I suppose it is a testament to LDS kindness that you are consistently treated with kid gloves. 5
Pyreaux Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: Pssst, Dario, you're not living the LDS life: you are actively breaking the Law of Chastity (one of the biggest LDS laws). You also say you drink alcohol. Also, you keep asserting your opinions as facts here, even when you are offered direct evidence to the contrary, such as which state and city is the safest in the US. You've never even been here. I suppose it is a testament to LDS kindness that you are consistently treated with kid gloves. I've seen many converts in so many places outside Utah who have such awesome Wards that they think Utah must therefore be a magical place; a holy mecca. Or that if everyone were members, they'd all be exactly as awesome as their Ward members. No matter where you go, here will always be rebellious teens, hypocrites, and crooked politicians. Edited November 3, 2024 by Pyreaux 2
MustardSeed Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 (edited) 9 hours ago, Dario_M said: Can you show us proof of that? To back up this Nevermind. This conversation is inane. Edited November 3, 2024 by MustardSeed 2
The Nehor Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 Less change than many would hope for. States and polities with a predominant religion have existed through most of history and even when most of the people in those places believed the religion was an established fact it didn’t lead to a utopia. Even when it was a monotheistic faith with strong encouragement of virtue. I don’t see how the LDS faith would change that equation in any way. Nauvoo wasn’t a utopia. Early Utah wasn’t a utopia. What has changed? 2
Dario_M Posted November 3, 2024 Author Posted November 3, 2024 7 hours ago, Calm said: Have you considered that your prior experience with hostility has made you reasonably defensive (if you are frequently attacked, it is wise to protect yourself before an attack), but has also perhaps led you to see hostility where there isn’t any? You can obviously see that mistakes are made by other people seeing you as hostile when you are not. And in the past you have accepted that people didn’t intend to come across as hostile to you. Yeah offcourse i'm a little agree with you. But sometimes people can have a bad day in their real life, then they go online and get extra quickly irritated on somebody they feel extremaly disagreemet with. Sorry i just woke up. So i don't know or i have put those sentences quite well together. 7 hours ago, Calm said: Maybe in the future it would be more effective to assume from the beginning without waiting for them to explain that someone is more likely frustrated than hostile. It would likely lead to you feeling less upset because it must hurt at least a little and sometimes a lot when someone is hostile to you and likely the same when you believe someone is hostile when they are not. Okay fine. I taught that being hostile or acting frustrated on somebody, where a bit of the same thing in the English language. 7 hours ago, Calm said: Most of the time on this board when you have said someone is angry or hostile to you I am reading their behavior as frustration. Yeah that's quite posible. But why is that frustration necessary? There are people here in my topic (from the LDS community) who havent expressed any frustration over me. Because they weren't frustrated by what i had to say. And i can't say it enough...but i experience so much more patience from those members. Must have something to do with values. 7 hours ago, Calm said: I naturally assume when you come across as hostile to me that you are frustrated and it is communication issues that make it sound like hostility to me. Yeah it's difficult to estimate what someones feelings are towards me on an online platform. That's always difficult to figure out. 7 hours ago, Calm said: Even people who share a language constantly misinterpret feelings of others online and off. I have lost count of the number of times I have been told I am angry or hurt when all I am is curious and asking questions or critiquing what looks to me is a poor argument.*** Yeah. There you go. 7 hours ago, Calm said: I find it saves energy, mental and emotional, and lots of time in writing posts to just assume that someone is at most frustrated and make the effort to be clearer in my comments or ask them to clarify their position if I care than to respond to them as if they are attacking me or mine. Okay. But let's be honest. Personal attacks also happen here from time to time. So it is a real thing here on the board. 7 hours ago, Calm said: ***The only time I really get angry is when friends are accused of lying and most of the time not even then, but there is something about the accusation of dishonesty that bothers me. Are you talking about friends here on the board? Or just friends in real life?
Dario_M Posted November 3, 2024 Author Posted November 3, 2024 4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: Pssst, Dario, you're not living the LDS life: you are actively breaking the Law of Chastity (one of the biggest LDS laws). You also say you drink alcohol. But i'm still a member of the LDS community. And i'm working on these issues. But it is just difficult. 4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: Also, you keep asserting your opinions as facts here, even when you are offered direct evidence to the contrary, such as which state and city is the safest in the US. You've never even been here. But does that matter? Even if i would go to the United States for one week i still haven't experienced it all. Because the country is so big. I had provide some data on the board. To back up my facts So...you can read a few post back and then you will find it. 4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: I suppose it is a testament to LDS kindness that you are consistently treated with kid gloves. Whut? 🤷♀️
Dario_M Posted November 3, 2024 Author Posted November 3, 2024 3 hours ago, MustardSeed said: Nevermind. This conversation is inane. Okay so no proof? In that case i'm afrait that i can not believe that there is a lot of crime in Provo where 90% of the people up there are Saints.
Calm Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 13 minutes ago, Dario_M said: taught that being hostile or acting frustrated on somebody, where a bit of the same thing in the English language. Not really. Hostile is very negative, you look at the other person as an enemy, you don’t trust them, etc. Frustrated…you can be very frustrated with those you love dearly, it is simply reacting to difficulties that come up. It’s closer to being tired than angry, imo. 1
Calm Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Dario_M said: Okay so no proof? In that case i'm afrait that i can not believe that there is a lot of crime in Provo where 90% of the people up there are Saints. How could she prove that someone attacked her in the past? Or stole from her or whatever crime was committed? Have we required proof that your father hit you as a kid or did we take your word for it? (Yes, this is me being frustrated you aren’t treating someone else with the compassion they have shown you, I am not being hostile or angry). While there may be lower levels of crime in Provo, there is crime. We have had things stolen out of our cars. We have seen vandalism. When I was at BYU as a student, the branch/ward I attended arranged for the elders to walk the sisters back to the dorms from campus because there was a series of rapes that summer. Every year when I was a student there I heard reports of rapes and attacks on the female students. My BYU boss’ child was kidnapped and held for 6 weeks before being found by police. There were three kidnapping attempts at a local mall the year my son was born. I can’t give you any proof for these either as I have forgotten the names involved or never knew them (they don’t release the name of rape victims, for example). I am not going to be able to find police reports on kidnappings from 1982 or rapes from the 70s or 80s. There are LDS who rip off other LDS in real estate scams here. A mother and her child were murdered by her brother-in-laws while I was living here while my husband got his Ph.D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_v._Lafferty. They made a bad TV series out of it. Mark Hofmann was a forger turned bomber/murderer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hofmann. On the edge of my small town, a father wiped out his family. I happened to be driving by late that night and was wondering why all the police were there, the police tape stayed up for months. Made me ill every time I drove by and still disturbs me. https://www.ksl.com/article/46303121/mapleton-father-mother-conspired-to-kill-family-report-concludes. There is Elizabeth Smart who was kidnapped out of her home. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart Kids escaping their home after being duct taped by their mom for discipline.https://www.fox13now.com/news/crime/evidence-released-shows-severity-of-abuse-in-franke-and-hildebrandt-case A wife who murdered her husband and then wrote a book on kids grieving. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/utah-woman-accused-killing-husband-writing-grief-book-searched-lethal-rcna88821 We are the capital for fraud in the US, in part because Saints are too trusting of other Saints. https://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/utah-fraud-capital/ Quote Utah has a long-held reputation as the fraud capital of the United States, mostly based on anecdotal evidence. But a nationwide Ponzi scheme database that Florida attorney Jordan Maglich compiled offers proof that the ignominious label appears deserved… Overall, Utah investors lost over $1.5 billion in those [Ponzi] scams over those 10 years. The number does not include other affinity frauds and investment scams which Pugsley estimates account for another $500 million in losses to Utah residents. Does Utah deserve the title ‘fraud capital of the United States’? by Dennis Romboy for Deseret News We have our share of crime in Utah. I wish it wasn’t so. Edited November 3, 2024 by Calm
Dario_M Posted November 3, 2024 Author Posted November 3, 2024 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: Less change than many would hope for. States and polities with a predominant religion have existed through most of history and even when most of the people in those places believed the religion was an established fact it didn’t lead to a utopia. Even when it was a monotheistic faith with strong encouragement of virtue. I don’t see how the LDS faith would change that equation in any way. Nauvoo wasn’t a utopia. Early Utah wasn’t a utopia. What has changed? Well.. Utah was a save place in the 90s. And it's still relatively save. So yes it must had something to do with the values of all those saints at that time (and now). That is a positive change. So the utopia was real. Plus Utah had (and still have) a good care system that prevents people from immediately losse their home after they got (for some reason) got fired at their job. Or they get really sick. Utah has a safety net for those people to prevent them to end up on the street. Those people can nok on the door of the church when theiy're in financial problems. And they don't end up on the street like that. (something that happends relatively sooner on other parts of the United States) how amazing is that!!! The Netherlands also has a safety net (not from the church but from the governmend it self) and that is just really important.
Dario_M Posted November 3, 2024 Author Posted November 3, 2024 14 minutes ago, Calm said: Not really. Hostile is very negative, you look at the other person as an enemy, you don’t trust them, etc. Frustrated…you can be very frustrated with those you love dearly, it is simply reacting to difficulties that come up. It’s closer to being tired than angry, imo. Okay well i'm sorry that i used the word "hostille" then. My bad.
Dario_M Posted November 3, 2024 Author Posted November 3, 2024 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Calm said: How could she prove that someone attacked her in the past? Have we required proof that your father hit you as a kid or did we take your word for it? She did not mention that somebody attacked her in the past in Provo. She said something else in that post. I'm going to look that post up because nowhere in that post i've red that she was hit. Unless she have changed her post. But that's not my fault sorry. 11 minutes ago, Calm said: While there may be lower levels of crime in Provo, there is crime. We have had things stolen out of our cars. We have seen vandalism. When I was at BYU, the branch/ward I attended arranged for the elders to walk the sisters back to the dorms from campus because there was a series of rapes that summer. Every year when I was a student there I heard reports of rapes and attacks on the female students. My boss’ child was kidnapped and held for 6 weeks before being found by police. There were three kidnapping attempts at a local mall the year my son was born. I can’t give you any proof for these either as I have forgotten the names involved or never knew them (they don’t release the name of rape victims, for example). I also need to mention that i need to go to church quite soon right now. So i've not much time left. Edited November 3, 2024 by Dario_M
Dario_M Posted November 3, 2024 Author Posted November 3, 2024 (edited) 13 hours ago, MustardSeed said: Give or take, about 80% of all the crimes against me ( vandalism, theft, indecent exposure, attempted rp/murder) all occurred in Provo. What’s that, 90% LDS? @Calm this was the post i was asking her for proof. Where in this post did she mention that she had been attacked? i can't see it anywhere you know. anyway i gotta go now. Hurry! Edited November 3, 2024 by Dario_M -1
Calm Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 And let’s not forget racism… https://suindependent.com/being-african-american-southern-utah/ https://magazine.byu.edu/article/black-at-byu/
Calm Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Dario_M said: She did not mention that somebody attacked her in the past in Provo. She said something else in that post. She said “crimes against me”. Whether it was physical attacks (“attempted rp/murder), sexual harassment/assault (“indecent exposure”) or something stolen (“theft”), is there really a difference of what we should believe or reject? Why not trust her to tell her story accurately when people here have trusted you? She said attempted rape and murder. You may not have understood the rape as that was abbreviated, but I don’t understand how you missed the “murder”. Rape and murder, that is an attack if there ever was one. Edited November 3, 2024 by Calm 3
Dario_M Posted November 3, 2024 Author Posted November 3, 2024 2 minutes ago, Calm said: She said crime against her. Whether it was attacks or something stolen, is there a difference? Why not trust her to tell her story accurately when people here have trusted you? She said attempted rape and murder. You may not have understood the rape as that was abbreviated, but I don’t understand how you missed the “murder”. I thought that she was talking about the rates there. Not about herself. Well..anyway..i really need to stop checking here on the board otherwise i miss my train. Heding off.
Calm Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 https://uncovered.com/states/utah-cold-cases/provo-ut Quote The Utah Department of Criminal Identification reports that there were 140 cases of missing persons in the city of Provo between 1980 and 2020. 119 were located, leaving 21 instances unsolved. During this same time period, 30 homicides were reported in Provo. As of the year 2020, 21 of these cases had been closed and 9 were still active. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/us/ut/provo/rape-rate-statistics Quote Interactive chart of Provo, Utah rape statistics (i.e. the number of rapes per 100,000 population) from 1999 to 2018. The number of rapes reported in Provo UT for 2018 was 59.33 per 100,000 population, a 34.11% increase from 2017. The number of rapes reported in Provo UT for 2017 was 44.24 per 100,000 population, a 10.17% decline from 2016. The number of rapes reported in Provo UT for 2016 was 49.25 per 100,000 population, a 5.36% decline from 2015. The number of rapes reported in Provo UT for 2015 was 52.04 per 100,000 population, a 25.78% decline from 2013.
Calm Posted November 3, 2024 Posted November 3, 2024 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dario_M said: thought that she was talking about the rates there. Not about herself. This is why you need to read more carefully and ask for clarification if you feel someone is saying something untrue. It is hard enough for the rest of us not to make mistakes on this board when we are native English speakers. It happens a lot. People make mistakes and accuse others of saying stuff they didn’t say quite a bit. It is unfortunately easier for you to misunderstand, which is fine, no one is expecting perfect understanding from you…but you need to be generous and compassionate to others as many are trying to be with you and not assume they are being offensive or lying or whatever. You need to ask people to clarify what they mean before critiquing them as in many cases you are misreading what they are saying. Edited November 3, 2024 by Calm 4
Dario_M Posted November 3, 2024 Author Posted November 3, 2024 4 hours ago, Calm said: This is why you need to read more carefully and ask for clarification if you feel someone is saying something untrue. It is hard enough for the rest of us not to make mistakes on this board when we are native English speakers. It happens a lot. People make mistakes and accuse others of saying stuff they didn’t say quite a bit. Yeah i need to do that. I really thought that she was talking about the crime rates about murder and other crimes in Provo in general, and that provo was an area where 90% of the people there where from the LDS community. That was what i was reading in her post. And that is why i was asking for data. Sorry. 🤷♀️ 4 hours ago, Calm said: It is unfortunately easier for you to misunderstand, which is fine, no one is expecting perfect understanding from you…but you need to be generous and compassionate to others as many are trying to be with you and not assume they are being offensive or lying or whatever. You need to ask people to clarify what they mean before critiquing them as in many cases you are misreading what they are saying. Yeah it have happen some times i admit that. Well..next time i will try to pay more attention. And if necessary i will ask for clarification.
Recommended Posts