Church members who leave the church

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Like what? I'm only together with my bf. For the rest there's nothing going on. 

I have no idea. Your situation is not normal so I suspect there is something we don’t know. It might have nothing to do with you. It might be something with local leadership.

[Dario_M]

31 minutes ago, california boy said:

I was also told by my stake president and bishop that living together with a boyfriend even without sex is not allowed.  So I left the Church and have never regretted that decision. I know Dario will probably give me a down vote for this, but I am pretty certain that at some point, he will be asked to choose between living with his boyfriend and living as a member of the Church.  I hope he makes the same choice I did and choose his boyfriend.  Walk towards love.  Love of your partner in life.  Love of Jesus Christ.  He will guide you on your own path back towards Him.  

I'm not in California. I'm in the Netherlands. And like i said earlier here things work a bit differend. My bishop doesn't care about me living together with another man. I'm sure he has more important things on his mind. People in this country don't really care that much about how somebody lives their lives. Also not the people in (any) church. This mentality is what i love the most about being here. I don't have to choose between the church or my boyfriend. In case i may lose my temple recommend i will still choose to stay with my boyfriend. I haven't been in the temple yet and it's fine if that moment will never come. As long as i don't get excommunicated and not lose my boyfriend it's all fine. 

 

 

31 minutes ago, california boy said:

Church leaders have never had a revelation on whether gay marriage is approved of by God.  There must be a reason for that.  It is only their personal bias that prevents them from seeing the love and happiness even a gay person can find with someone to share their lives with.  They grew up in a time where they were taught that men should only love women.  As is said often, they are men of their times.  I don't fault them for their prejudice, but I won't live under that bias.  I choose love and happiness. I have never regretted that choice.

I'm so happy for you. 

Edited October 12, 2024 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

Edit.

Edited October 12, 2024 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

I find the way you react to me is not normal. You have left the church. For heaven sakes you are bi sexual yourself you said (so i guess you're active as well). And now you are telling me that my situation is not normal because i go to church and have a boyfriend on the same time? With all due respect. But please...don't be hypocrite. 

I haven’t left the church. Not yet anyways.

I know how the church works. Your situation is not normal. Be careful. A change in local leadership could change everything for you.

8 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

 No there is nothing else. You see too much behind it. 

I hope you are right but I doubt it.

[Malc]

26 minutes ago, california boy said:

I was also told by my stake president and bishop that living together with a boyfriend even without sex is not allowed.  So I left the Church and have never regretted that decision. I know Dario will probably give me a down vote for this, but I am pretty certain that at some point, he will be asked to choose between living with his boyfriend and living as a member of the Church.  I hope he makes the same choice I did and choose his boyfriend.  Walk towards love.  Love of your partner in life.  Love of Jesus Christ.  He will guide you on your own path back towards Him.  

Church leaders have never had a revelation on whether gay marriage is approved of by God.  There must be a reason for that.  It is only their personal bias that prevents them from seeing the love and happiness even a gay person can find with someone to share their lives with.  They grew up in a time where they were taught that men should only love women.  As is said often, they are men of their times.  I don't fault them for their prejudice, but I won't live under that bias.  I choose love and happiness. I have never regretted that choice.

These leaders also grew up with the firm idea that there are men and women, and nothing outside the binary. Same-sex "issues" came from totally unnatural and perverted choices.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Malc said:

These leaders also grew up with the firm idea that there are men and women, and nothing outside the binary. Same-sex "issues" came from totally unnatural and perverted choices.

And who can blame them? The apostles were hard at work joining in the latest moral panic of the day and parroting the worries and xenophobia of the rest of (supposedly apostate) Christendom.

Then they backpedaled a bit on what causes “same sex attraction” but not in response to revelation. They pivoted because secular knowledge advanced.

The cynic in me wonders what the use of seers are if they are blown about by every wind of doctrine.

[Malc]

16 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

I find the way you react to me is not normal. You have left the church. For heaven sakes you are bi sexual yourself you said (so i guess you're active as well). And now you are telling me that my situation is not normal because i go to church and have a boyfriend on the same time? With all due respect. But please...don't be hypocrite. 

 No there is nothing else. You see too much behind it. 

I find it difficult to understand why you react so strongly and negatively to The Nehor. He (like California Boy) has a lot of experience trying to navigate the "gay + active and/or believing" situation, and so is able to be a good resource for you. In my opinion, he and CB are trying, in good faith, to help you understand your position and possible choices.

Whether you like it or not, there is little doubt that your situation is unusual in the church as a whole. It appears to be totally dependent on your current leaders in The Netherlands, and could change at any moment due to either a change in leaders there, or to a decision made higher up in the church to clean up such situations.

 

[Rain]

5 hours ago, california boy said:

I was also told by my stake president and bishop that living together with a boyfriend even without sex is not allowed.  So I left the Church and have never regretted that decision. I know Dario will probably give me a down vote for this, but I am pretty certain that at some point, he will be asked to choose between living with his boyfriend and living as a member of the Church.  I hope he makes the same choice I did and choose his boyfriend.  Walk towards love.  Love of your partner in life.  Love of Jesus Christ.  He will guide you on your own path back towards Him.  

Church leaders have never had a revelation on whether gay marriage is approved of by God.  There must be a reason for that.  It is only their personal bias that prevents them from seeing the love and happiness even a gay person can find with someone to share their lives with.  They grew up in a time where they were taught that men should only love women.  As is said often, they are men of their times.  I don't fault them for their prejudice, but I won't live under that bias.  I choose love and happiness. I have never regretted that choice.

It will be interesting to see how that plays out. In Matthew Harris' Second Class Saints he found something that said, the leaders had never prayed over the ban together till 1971.  And when the ban was lifted at least 1 said they would not be praying over women and the priesthood.  It reminded me of all the times on the board someone has wondered if women had been prayed about. 

Edited October 12, 2024 by Rain

[Peacefully]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I was also told by my stake president and bishop that living together with a boyfriend even without sex is not allowed.  So I left the Church and have never regretted that decision. I know Dario will probably give me a down vote for this, but I am pretty certain that at some point, he will be asked to choose between living with his boyfriend and living as a member of the Church.  I hope he makes the same choice I did and choose his boyfriend.  Walk towards love.  Love of your partner in life.  Love of Jesus Christ.  He will guide you on your own path back towards Him.  

Church leaders have never had a revelation on whether gay marriage is approved of by God.  There must be a reason for that.  It is only their personal bias that prevents them from seeing the love and happiness even a gay person can find with someone to share their lives with.  They grew up in a time where they were taught that men should only love women.  As is said often, they are men of their times.  I don't fault them for their prejudice, but I won't live under that bias.  I choose love and happiness. I have never regretted that choice.

Beautifully said. CB, I love the way you speak your truth without putting others down. 

 

Edited October 12, 2024 by Peacefully

[Dario_M]

I'm also not putting others down. 

[Dario_M]

56 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I haven’t left the church. Not yet anyways.

I know how the church works. Your situation is not normal. Be careful. A change in local leadership could change everything for you.

I hope you are right but I doubt it.

I wanna apologize that i was a litle unfriendly to you in the previous post. Sorry about that. This subject is very sensitive for me. 

[The Nehor]

Just now, Dario_M said:

I wanna apologize that i was a litle unfriendly to you in the previous post. Sorry about that. This subject is very sensitive for me. 

It is all good buddy.

[Dario_M]

Just now, The Nehor said:

It is all good buddy.

Thank you. 🫂

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I haven’t left the church. Not yet anyways.

I know how the church works. Your situation is not normal. Be careful. A change in local leadership could change everything for you.

I hope you are right but I doubt it.

Well, the only thing that could happen is his temple recommend to do baptisms for the dead would be taken away. He can still attend and be a part of the ward. He may not be asked to give prayers or talks, and may have his ability to take the Sacrament away. So that would be huge, I believe, and difficult. But he can still commune at least. And I would wholeheartedly disagree with the Sacrament being withheld. Hopefully this practice is getting better. And he can renew his baptism covenants weekly.

[Peacefully]

4 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I'm also not putting others down. 

It was more of a general statement about how CB conducts himself. Definitely not aimed at you. 

[Dario_M]

8 hours ago, Peacefully said:

It was more of a general statement about how CB conducts himself. Definitely not aimed at you. 

Oh okay. I was a bit afrait that it was a silent hint in my direction. But i'm glad to read that it wasn't. It is not my intention to bring people down. But i admit i acted like a bit of a jerk to The Nehor and i feel kinda guilty for it now. 

[Peacefully]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Oh okay. I was a bit afrait that it was a silent hint in my direction. But i'm glad to read that it wasn't. It is not my intention to bring people down. But i admit i acted like a bit of a jerk to The Nehor and i feel kinda guilty for it now. 

Seems like all is good between Nehor and you now:) 

[Dario_M]

26 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

Seems like all is good between Nehor and you now:) 

Yes it is. 

[Teancum]

On 10/11/2024 at 12:09 AM, MiserereNobis said:

LDS, friends. Isn’t Dario living contrary to your church’s teaching? Gay and with a boyfriend, yet has a temple recommend? I’ve seen some of you say that it’s leader roulette… so does that mean being in a same sex relationship is ok depending on the local bishop? I’m curious why you’re tip toeing around this. Why don’t you tell him your teachings about being in an active same sex relationship? It’s not different in the Netherlands, right?

I was not aware of Dario's personal living situation.

[Dario_M]

43 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I was not aware of Dario's personal living situation.

Yeah i have a boyfriend and he is the only one i have. For the rest i have no friends, no family anymore, no contact with my parents. Completely.......Nothing. 

For the rest i'm also ugly, extremaly unhappy, and i'm fatter then i've ever been. 

Edited October 13, 2024 by Dario_M

[Okrahomer]

32 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

For the rest i'm also ugly, extremaly unhappy, and i'm fatter then i've ever been. 

1 Samuel 16:7: “…Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature…; for the Lord does not see as mortals see; they look on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”  
 

You have a good heart Brother Dario. 

[Dario_M]

11 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

1 Samuel 16:7: “…Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature…; for the Lord does not see as mortals see; they look on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”  
 

You have a good heart Brother Dario. 

Thank you. Those criptures are nice to read. It comforts me a bit. Thank you for saying to me that i have a good heart Okrahomer. 🩵 unfortunatly in this evil world most people don't see the value of a good heart. In this world the whole picture is important. Usually your social skills, your charm, and your appearance. 

 

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Thank you. Those criptures are nice to read. It comforts me a bit. Thank you for saying to me that i have a good heart Okrahomer. 🩵 unfortunatly in this evil world most people don't see the value of a good heart. In this world the whole picture is important. Usually your social skills, your charm, and your appearance. 

 

The church has this website that I don't know if it will help. If it does, great, if not, I'm sorry. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay?lang=eng

It use to be labeled: Mormonandgay.lds.org but both will take you to the same website. 

Maybe because the church doesn't like using Mormon or gay descriptions any longer, I dunno. 

Edited October 13, 2024 by Tacenda

[Dario_M]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

The church has this website that I don't know if it will help. If it does, great, if not, I'm sorry. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay?lang=eng

It use to be labeled: Mormonandgay.lds.org but both will take you to the same website. 

Maybe because the church doesn't like using Mormon or gay descriptions any longer, I dunno. 

Thank you so much. I'm gonna dig into it in the morning. 

Edit, i see that eventually all the gay man married a woman.😌 I could never do that though. 

Edited October 14, 2024 by Dario_M

[Teancum]

On 10/12/2024 at 10:38 AM, california boy said:

I was also told by my stake president and bishop that living together with a boyfriend even without sex is not allowed.  So I left the Church and have never regretted that decision. I know Dario will probably give me a down vote for this, but I am pretty certain that at some point, he will be asked to choose between living with his boyfriend and living as a member of the Church.  I hope he makes the same choice I did and choose his boyfriend.  Walk towards love.  Love of your partner in life.  Love of Jesus Christ.  He will guide you on your own path back towards Him.  

You most certianly are correct. It seems odd to me that @Dario_Mis in a homosexual live in relationship and his local leaders are turning a blind eye. It seems like an aberration. I know it has been a long time since I have been a bishop, but in between time we have seen very hostile policy come, and go a bit, towards same sex relationships. I wish him the best.