LDS School Board Member Bullies Teenage Girl

[The Nehor]

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/us/natalie-cline-controversy-student-gender-social-media-posts/index.html

This is going to get more and more common. She insinuates that a player is transgender. There were attempts by some of the more loathsome denizens of the internet to doxx the girl and she has been threatened. There are reports the student was assigned police protection but I can’t confirm that.

Natalie Cline, the bully, offered a non-apology surrounded with musings about how she couldn’t tell for sure if the student was transgender and lamenting we live in a world where she has to wonder about these things. She doesn’t. She is just obsessed. She also did the standard bully whining about “free speech” as if that protects her from anything other than prosecution. She is also denying everything and hiding behind her weasel wording and that she didn’t actually outright say the child was transgender. While technically true she obviously and directly implied it. What a coward.

The girl in this situation was cisgender. If she were transgender it wouldn’t make it any better.

In lighter Mormon Corridor news an Idaho state legislator is proposing we need additional laws around cannibalism because she watched a prank show about someone tricking someone into thinking they were eating people. The legislator said about cannibalism:

“This is going to be normalized at some point, the way our society’s going and the direction we’re going,”

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/feb/08/they-fed-it-to-them-idaho-lawmaker-worried-about-c/

Everything is so stupid.

[rpn]

Our leaders keep preaching kindness and acceptance of all, but not all of us are listening and transforming our thoughts and belief, actions to follow Christ.  (Here statements seem particularly egregious if the new reports are accurate that there was no basis at all for the accusations except the person was playing better than the other team members.   I'm glad the gov and the elected Board on which she sits  have strongly opposed her statements and are taking action to remove her from the state School board to make a statement that such behavior is never okay.

[The Nehor]

The board she is on can’t fire her. The governor also can’t. It is an elected position and letting the board or the governor fire local officials would be susceptible to a lot of abuse.

It looks like the state legislature has the power to impeach and that is being looked at. The state board of education can levy some punishments but my understanding is that this is limited to censure, removal from committees and things like that and does not include removal from office.

[LoudmouthMormon]

In order to form any sort of opinion on the matter, I'd need more information about the teen girl, and I'd need to see Cline's post.  

Upon learning background, facts, and context, I'd then be able to decide whether I would jump on the bandwagon to censure Cline, or jump on the bandwagon to keep biological males out of girls' sports, or somewhere in between.

There are an awful lot of fearful ignorant people jumping to stupid conclusions and spreading disinformation that places innocent people in danger.  There are also cultural winds that would give biological males access to girls' locker rooms, and demand we all accept it or face censure/cancelling/the title of transphobe/death threats.    

These links just don't give me enough to figure out which is more likely.

Edited February 9 by LoudmouthMormon

[mapman]

48 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

In order to form any sort of opinion on the matter, I'd need more information about the teen girl, and I'd need to see Cline's post.  

This is disgusting. No one should have a right to knowing about the details of another person's body, full stop. Especially a minor! Cline's comments on their face are gross regardless of the facts. Makes all the hypocrisy of wailing about protecting kids from queer people super obvious.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

In order to form any sort of opinion on the matter, I'd need more information about the teen girl, and I'd need to see Cline's post.  

Upon learning background, facts, and context, I'd then be able to decide whether I would jump on the bandwagon to censure Cline, or jump on the bandwagon to keep biological males out of girls' sports, or somewhere in between.

There are an awful lot of fearful ignorant people jumping to stupid conclusions and spreading disinformation that places innocent people in danger.  There are also cultural winds that would give biological males access to girls' locker rooms, and demand we all accept it or face censure/cancelling/the title of transphobe/death threats.    

These links just don't give me enough to figure out which is more likely.

Alleged adult takes a pic off school website talking about a basketball game with several of the girls on the team shown in this pic.

Alleged adult posts it online with the caption:

Quote

[constitutionally Protected Speech]

Girls’ sports…

One of the girls in the image is clearly being targeted and it is insinuated that she is transgender.

If you need more information then that you are doing it wrong.

Edited February 10 by The Nehor

[mapman]

https://apnews.com/article/transgender-athlete-utah-school-board-member-governor-0aefa9baeb3cb5787687c8db02bf6241
The governor says this is embarrassing to the state, yet he just recently signed a bathroom law that will only encourage such behavior from people who think they can tell who is transgender or not. What a joke! It was painfully obvious that the mindset behind this law and Cline's comments was going to end up hurting cis girls and women as well as the intended target of bullying trans people. Anyone could have seen this coming.

If the Church wants to take protecting children seriously they will need to look at the rise of conspiracy theorists and far-right extremism in the ranks.

[SteveO]

So as members, what would you like us to do

about this? 

[Tacenda]

16 minutes ago, SteveO said:

So as members, what would you like us to do

about this? 

Do about what specific things?

[SteveO]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Do about what specific things?

The commonality between the two instances, which feature two locally elected officials that have nothing to do with me, and do not affect me in any way, is the fact that both are members of the church.

I’m assuming that’s to be taken as a commentary on the general population of the church.  If not, why is this story worth sharing? And if so, what would you like me to do about it?

Edited February 10 by SteveO

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, SteveO said:

The commonality between the two instances, which feature two locally elected officials that have nothing to do with me, and do not affect me in any way, is the fact that both are members of the church.

I’m assuming that’s to be taken as a commentary on the general population of the church.  If not, why is this story worth sharing? And if so, what would you like me to do about it?

It's worth sharing anytime there could be mental abuse of a teen. And that council woman plainly did that according to the girl's parents seen here: https://www.abc4.com/news/politics/adults-bullying-a-child-parents-of-child-targeted-in-natalie-cline-social-media-post-become-crusaders-for-attacked-teens/

There is a huge campaign to block teens from using Tic Tok in the state of Utah, maybe the bill or law passed already, I'll have to check. So what do you think about that kind of control? I guess I don't mind it, but wondering if it's not really going to address the problem, which they say is suicide or depression problems stemming from it. So why shouldn't this situation be brought up if that's the concern of Utah's citizens and public servants. 

[SteveO]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

It's worth sharing anytime there could be mental abuse of a teen. And that council woman plainly did that according to the girl's parents seen here: https://www.abc4.com/news/politics/adults-bullying-a-child-parents-of-child-targeted-in-natalie-cline-social-media-post-become-crusaders-for-attacked-teens/

There is a huge campaign to block teens from using Tic Tok in the state of Utah, maybe the bill or law passed already, I'll have to check. So what do you think about that kind of control? I guess I don't mind it, but wondering if it's not really going to address the problem, which they say is suicide or depression problems stemming from it. So why shouldn't this situation be brought up if that's the concern of Utah's citizens and public servants. 

I have it on good authority, from members of this board in fact, that isolated and rare instances does not a crisis make, and can’t be extrapolated to make a general commentary of a broader population.

And yet, given the constant topics around LGBTQ on this board, that seems to be what is happening here. Again. And so I ask again, what am I supposed to do with this information?  

[Tacenda]

9 minutes ago, SteveO said:

I have it on good authority, from members of this board in fact, that isolated and rare instances does not a crisis make, and can’t be extrapolated to make a general commentary of a broader population.

And yet, given the constant topics around LGBTQ on this board, that seems to be what is happening here. Again. And so I ask again, what am I supposed to do with this information?  

Just empathize with this girl and teens like her I guess. Instead of get on the bandwagon with opponents that probably secretly or openly think the world is going to pot because we now accept that this is happening with humans, which has gone on for eon's but now we are finally understanding not everyone is the cookie cutter 1950's human. Now we let out the closeted humans, or any humans that are going by their own feelings. And with the youth, youth experiment with different things. I do not believe youth should have corrective surgery until they are fully matured, because of these experiments with the individual. But certainly agree that adults shouldn't bully ever, especially public servants as this will give the all clear message that it's okay to bully youth and then we have hate crimes galore. It's happened time and time again. 

Natalie Cline let her personal feelings affect the population she's suppose to serve and not injure. 

[JAHS]

21 hours ago, The Nehor said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/us/natalie-cline-controversy-student-gender-social-media-posts/index.html

This is going to get more and more common. She insinuates that a player is transgender. There were attempts by some of the more loathsome denizens of the internet to doxx the girl and she has been threatened. There are reports the student was assigned police protection but I can’t confirm that.

Natalie Cline, the bully, offered a non-apology surrounded with musings about how she couldn’t tell for sure if the student was transgender and lamenting we live in a world where she has to wonder about these things. She doesn’t. She is just obsessed. She also did the standard bully whining about “free speech” as if that protects her from anything other than prosecution. She is also denying everything and hiding behind her weasel wording and that she didn’t actually outright say the child was transgender. While technically true she obviously and directly implied it. What a coward.

The girl in this situation was cisgender. If she were transgender it wouldn’t make it any better.

In lighter Mormon Corridor news an Idaho state legislator is proposing we need additional laws around cannibalism because she watched a prank show about someone tricking someone into thinking they were eating people. The legislator said about cannibalism:

“This is going to be normalized at some point, the way our society’s going and the direction we’re going,”

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/feb/08/they-fed-it-to-them-idaho-lawmaker-worried-about-c/

Everything is so stupid.

I suppose it can be assumed but is there any where she is actually identified as a member of the church? I don't see it in the article or other linked articles. Maybe it's just common knowledge.

[SteveO]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Instead of get on the bandwagon with opponents that probably secretly or openly think the world is going to pot because we now accept that this is happening with humans

And there it is.  WTH is this garbage?

I’m a ward clerk, and my wife is a counselor in the Relief Society here in Northern Virginia.  I have a son, we work and play and do the best we can to build Zion in our little part of the world.

Few weeks ago, when we had a terrible cold snap, I was at the Costco putting my shopping cart away at closing.  A very young woman with a new born approached me.  With very broken English, she managed to convey she wanted a ride to the Walmart, maybe a 5 minute drive away down the highway.  She was an Afghan refugee.  Her husband worked there and had no way to get her.  Store was closing, it was cold, and she had a baby that couldn’t have been 6 months, groceries, and a baby carrier. And I had my family, and a car full of food (you know how post Costco trips are, there’s no room).

Here’s the kicker:  I don’t like people from that part of the world.  I’ve said it on this board, very matter of fact I don’t like them.  I don’t like Muslims, I don’t like Islam, I don’t like the culture.  Not hate, but it’s something close to it that I’ve struggled with since my tour ended there in 2012.

But, because I’m a self described decent person, and have a degree of compassion, I unloaded my car, smashed some food items in the trunk, and squished myself, my son and his car seat into the front and made it work.  I tried to make small talk with what little Pashto I remembered from my Army days.  She was a very sweet woman, and seemed very kind, and nice to my son.  Dropped her off at Walmart, and she thanked us, and it was a very nice moment, and I felt good we had done something charitable and it was a good example for my son to see.

…and I still don’t like people from that part of the world…

Does that make me a bad person?  Maybe to some.  But were my actions Christlike?  I believe so.  And that’s really all you can expect from me.  To be a decent human being, and kind and compassionate to others.  I don’t have to like you, I have to love you.

Now.  How does this relate?  Because I am quite sick of all these lessons and talks at church, and the posts on here, about being welcoming and inclusive and how we need to be nice to people.  It's like they constantly feel the need to remind us to have basic human decency.  And it is quite off putting to me.  Your little snippet here, like I’m jumping on a bandwagon of what?  Intolerance and hate?  Like I’m unable to be a decent human being?  I just want them queers to suffer and be miserable?  That it?  
 

What is the point of this post?  To make me aware we have dopes in the church?  Okay.  We have dopes in the church.  It’s not a representation of the church as a whole or its members.

Second hour of ward conference recently was on "ministering to the one".  I didn’t go.  I'm sorry man but I just do not accept that I am supposed to care about someone else's life more than they do.  I am happy to help and be kind to people. But this begging people to come to church crap I just don’t care for.  And garbage posts like this that insinuate members have a lack of compassion, or have built or foster or defend a toxic, unwelcoming culture is tiresome.  Come, or don’t come.  I don’t care.  You want a ride? Sure l'll come pick you up. But I'm not begging you to come to church.  
 

I DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE YOU.  

I DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT YOUR LIFE CHOICES.

I am only required to love you.

There are people who suffer terribly in this church.  They are lonely.  They have heartache.  And they aren’t all gay or trans.

 

Edited February 10 by SteveO

[Tacenda]

This gal does have an agenda:

https://www.facebook.com/NatalieJCline/

[Tacenda]

15 minutes ago, SteveO said:

And there it is.  WTH is this garbage?

I’m a ward clerk, and my wife is a counselor in the Relief Society here in Northern Virginia.  I have a son, we work and play and do the best we can to build Zion in our little part of the world.

Few weeks ago, when we had a terrible cold snap, I was at the Costco putting my shopping cart away at closing.  A very young woman with a new born approached me.  With very broken English, she managed to convey she wanted a ride to the Walmart, maybe a 5 minute drive away down the highway.  She was an Afghan refugee.  Her husband worked there and had no way to get her.  Store was closing, it was cold, and she had a baby that couldn’t have been 6 months, groceries, and a baby carrier. And I had my family, and a car full of food (you know how post Costco trips are, there’s no room).

Here’s the kicker:  I don’t like people from that part of the world.  I’ve said it on this board, very matter of fact I don’t like them.  I don’t like Muslims, I don’t like Islam, I don’t like the culture.  Not hate, but it’s something close to it that I’ve struggled with since my tour ended there in 2012.

But, because I’m a self described decent person, and have a degree of compassion, I unloaded my car, smashed some food items in the trunk, and squished myself, my son and his car seat into the front and made it work.  I tried to make small talk with what little Pashto I remembered from my Army days.  She was a very sweet woman, and seemed very kind, and nice to my son.  Dropped her off at Walmart, and she thanked us, and it was a very nice moment, and I felt good we had done something charitable and it was a good example for my son to see.

…and I still don’t like people from that part of the world…

Does that make me a bad person?  Maybe to some.  But were my actions Christlike?  I believe so.  And that’s really all you can expect from me.  To be a decent human being, and kind and compassionate to others.  I don’t have to like you, I have to love you.

Now.  How does this relate?  Because I am quite sick of all these lessons and talks at church, and the posts on here, about being welcoming and inclusive and how we need to be nice to people.  It's like they constantly feel the need to remind us to have basic human decency.  And it is quite off putting to me.  Your little snippet here, like I’m jumping on a bandwagon of what?  Intolerance and hate?  Like I’m unable to be a decent human being?  I just want them queers to suffer and be miserable?  That it?  
 

What is the point of this post?  To make me aware we have dopes in the church?  Okay.  We have dopes in the church.  It’s not a representation of the church as a whole or its members.

Second hour of ward conference recently was on "ministering to the one".  I didn’t go.  I'm sorry man but I just do not accept that I am supposed to care about someone else's life more than they do.  I am happy to help and be kind to people. But this begging people to come to church crap I just don’t care for.  And garbage posts like this that insinuate members have a lack of compassion, or have built or foster or defend a toxic, unwelcoming culture is tiresome.  Come, or don’t come.  I don’t care.  You want a ride? Sure l'll come pick you up. But I'm not begging you to come to church.  
 

I DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE YOU.  

I DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT YOUR LIFE CHOICES.

I am only required to love you.

There are people who suffer terribly in this church.  They are lonely.  They have heartache.  And they aren’t all gay or trans.

 

Understood! Thanks for the openness. I apologize that I made it about you. I think I'd like you, as I'd know where I stand around you. 

SteveO, I wish you well, and like that you are yourself, and hope others can be the same without being publicly scrutinized as Natalie did as a public server that could have repercussions. Think Nancy Pelosi's husband, that was attacked. I don't want the youth to have the same experience. Or that they may feel their life couldn't/wouldn't count and may take their own lives. 

 

 

 

Edited February 10 by Tacenda

[Pyreaux]

12 minutes ago, SteveO said:

And there it is.  WTH is this garbage?

I’m a ward clerk, and my wife is a counselor in the Relief Society here in Northern Virginia.  I have a son, we work and play and do the best we can to build Zion in our little part of the world.

Few weeks ago, when we had a terrible cold snap, I was at the Costco putting my shopping cart away at closing.  A very young woman with a new born approached me.  With very broken English, she managed to convey she wanted a ride to the Walmart, maybe a 5 minute drive away down the highway.  She was an Afghan refugee.  Her husband worked there and had no way to get her.  Store was closing, it was cold, and she had a baby that couldn’t have been 6 months, groceries, and a baby carrier. And I had my family, and a car full of food (you know how post Costco trips are, there’s no room).

Here’s the kicker:  I don’t like people from that part of the world.  I’ve said it on this board, very matter of fact I don’t like them.  I don’t like Muslims, I don’t like Islam, I don’t like the culture.  Not hate, but it’s something close to it that I’ve struggled with since my tour ended there in 2012.

But, because I’m a self described decent person, and have a degree of compassion, I unloaded my car, smashed some food items in the trunk, and squished myself, my son and his car seat into the front and made it work.  I tried to make small talk with what little Pashto I remembered from my Army days.  She was a very sweet woman, and seemed very kind, and nice to my son.  Dropped her off at Walmart, and she thanked us, and it was a very nice moment, and I felt good we had done something charitable and it was a good example for my son to see.

…and I still don’t like people from that part of the world…

Does that make me a bad person?  Maybe to some.  But were my actions Christlike?  I believe so.  And that’s really all you can expect from me.  To be a decent human being, and kind and compassionate to others.  I don’t have to like you, I have to love you.

Now.  How does this relate?  Because I am quite sick of all these lessons and talks at church, and the posts on here, about being welcoming and inclusive and how we need to be nice to people.  It's like they constantly feel the need to remind us to have basic human decency.  And it is quite off putting to me.  Your little snippet here, like I’m jumping on a bandwagon of what?  Intolerance and hate?  Like I’m unable to be a decent human being?  I just want them queers to suffer and be miserable?  That it?  
 

What is the point of this post?  To make me aware we have dopes in the church?  Okay.  We have dopes in the church.  It’s not a representation of the church as a whole or its members.

Second hour of ward conference recently was on "ministering to the one".  I didn’t go.  I'm sorry man but I just do not accept that I am supposed to care about someone else's life more than they do.  I am happy to help and be kind to people. But this begging people to come to church crap I just don’t care for.  And garbage posts like this that insinuate members have a lack of compassion, or have built or foster or defend a toxic, unwelcoming culture is tiresome.  Come, or don’t come.  I don’t care.  You want a ride? Sure l'll come pick you up. But I'm not begging you to come to church.  
 

I DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE YOU.  

I DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT YOUR LIFE CHOICES.

I am only required to love you.

There are people who suffer terribly in this church.  They are lonely.  They have heartache.  And they aren’t all gay or trans.

 

[SteveO]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Think Nancy Pelosi's husband, that was attacked. I don't want the youth to have the same experience. Or that they may feel their life couldn't/wouldn't count and may take their own lives. 

 

 

 

Again, you cannot apply rare instances to the broader population.  There was a horrific case recently of a trans daycare worker.  No details needed, but he was absurdly sentenced to time already served for what he did.  It was unjust and evil.  And also wouldn't be fair to extrapolate onto the trans community as a whole.  You could say the same for the Nashville shooter. 

I recently reread the book, "A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century" by Barbara W. Tuchman.  She is, in my view, one of the great historians of the 20th century.  This quote, with all the ills of modern social media, is critical to understand, more than ever: 

Disaster is rarely as pervasive as it seems from recorded accounts. The fact of being on the record makes it appear continuous and ubiquitous whereas it is more likely to have been sporadic both in time and place. Besides, persistence of the normal is usually greater than the effect of the disturbance, as we know from our own times. After absorbing the news of today, one expects to face a world consisting entirely of strikes, crimes, power failures, broken water mains, stalled trains, school shutdowns, muggers, drug addicts, neo-Nazis, and rapists. The fact is that one can come home in the evening--on a lucky day--without having encountered more than one or two of these phenomena. This has led me to formulate Tuchman's Law, as follows: "The fact of being reported multiplies the apparent extent of any deplorable development by five- to tenfold" (or any figure the reader would care to supply).”
 

[Tacenda]

12 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

One of my favs! And fits SteveO too! Hope it's okay I say that. But I think the character Clint Eastwood portrayed ended up loving these Hmong people, as did I! Even better than his bratty kids! But just like SteveO, he was a helper for sure but got to know them, and I feel he felt closer to than his own kids. So all in all, be careful who you dislike, you may have them peg'd totally wrong.

Edited February 10 by Tacenda

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, SteveO said:

I DO NOT HAVE TO LIKE YOU.  

I DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT YOUR LIFE CHOICES.

I am only required to love you.

It’s been said before, but there is no hate quite like Christian “love”. 

Edited February 10 by SeekingUnderstanding

[SteveO]

2 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

It’s been said before, but there is hate quite like Christian “love”. 

I bet that would’ve been a sick burn on the Twitter.

But I’ll ask again.  What do you want me to do with this information?  What more can I do that I am currently not doing?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

5 minutes ago, SteveO said:

I bet that would’ve been a sick burn on the Twitter.

But I’ll ask again.  What do you want me to do with this information?  What more can I do that I am currently not doing?

Maybe stop hating people based on where they are from, the color of their skin, their language?

ETA - at least don’t claim to “love” someone that you have prejudicially decided to dislike. 

Edited February 10 by SeekingUnderstanding

[SteveO]

Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Maybe stop hating people based on where they are from, the color of their skin, their language?

First, no where did I say I hated anyone for any of those reasons.  I said I do not like them.

And second, to avoid getting into an argument where you presume to know who I do and do not hate, let’s say that’s true.  How would I show someone I dislike, that I do not hate them, but love them?  Be specific.  Because apparently my specific answer wasn’t specific enough for you.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

10 minutes ago, SteveO said:

How would I show someone I dislike, that I do not hate them, but love them?  

It’s not possible. Step 1: stop disliking them. Especially for things they didn’t choose and aren’t responsible for. Only a “Christian” would possibly attempt to call that love.

Edited February 10 by SeekingUnderstanding