This is where the Book of Mormon happened, according to AI

[Zosimus]

I suffered through this episode of Ward Radio and somewhere near the middle it became clear these guys don't know enough about history or geography to justify investing a full hour into listening. I thought, instead, why not find out what GPT-4 has to say about Book of Mormon geography?

Here was my first conversation with ChatGPT. I'll ask the bot more questions in upcoming replies below this thread but thought animals would be a good place to start.

Zosimus: Hello ChatGPT. I have a book that was published in 1830 that claims to contain a history of a people that lived between 2500 BC and 420 AD. I'd like to know where the events of the book happened, but all I know about the geographical setting is what the book has to say about the material culture of the people described in the book. I will give you a list of the animals found in the book and would like for you to give your best estimation of the geographical location. Are you ready?

GPT-4: Yes, I'm ready. Please provide the list of animals mentioned in the book, and I'll use that information to give my best estimation of the geographical location where the events of the book could have taken place.

Zosimus: Before we begin, let's categorize the world into 13 different regions. We can then give a score to each region, with a 10 being "extremely good convergence" and a 1 being an "extremely poor convergence". Here are the regions I propose: Europe, South Asia, Southeast Asia, East Asia, Central Asia, West Asia, North Africa:, Sub-Saharan Africa, Australasia/Oceania, North America, Central America, South America

GPT-4: Your approach for categorizing the world into 13 regions and scoring them based on the convergence of animal species mentioned in your book is a sound method for estimating the geographical setting. This method will allow us to assess which region most likely corresponds to the descriptions in the book, based on the historical presence of these animals from 2500 BC to 420 AD.

The scoring system, where 10 indicates "extremely good convergence" and 1 indicates "extremely poor convergence," will help quantify the fit of each region to the animal data you provide.

Please go ahead and list the animals mentioned in your book, and I will analyze and score each region accordingly.

Zosimus:  The book lists these animals as being present in the land during a period between 2500 BC and 600 BC: cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, asses, elephants. The book also mentions these animals as being present in the land between 600 BC and 420 AD: cow, ox, ***, horse, goat, and wild goat. On a scale of 1 to 10, give a score to each region.

GPT-4: To assign a score to each region based on the presence of the specified animals in two distinct time periods (2500 BC to 600 BC, and 600 BC to 420 AD), we'll consider the historical distribution of these animals in each region. The score will be on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is an extremely poor convergence and 10 is an extremely good convergence.

Animals Listed:

2500 BC to 600 BC: cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, asses, elephants
600 BC to 420 AD: cow, ox, ***, horse, goat, wild goat

Regional Scoring:

South Asia
Historically had all the listed animals, including elephants.
Score: 10/10

Southeast Asia
Similar to South Asia, with a history of these animals, including elephants.
Score: 10/10

Central Asia
Known for horses, livestock but not for elephants.
Score: 4/10

West Asia (Middle East)
Many of the animals were present, but elephants were uncommon.
Score: 4/10

East Asia
Had many of the animals, but elephants were less common.
Score: 3/10

North Africa
Had a history of animal domestication, but Asian elephants were not common.
Score: 3/10

Sub-Saharan Africa
Different environment; African elephants were present but not the Asian species.
Score: 3/10

Europe
Ancient Europe had cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, and asses. Elephants were not common.
Score: 2/10

Australasia/Oceania
Lacks historical record of these domesticated animals, especially elephants.
Score: 1/10

North America
Did not have these domestic animals until post-Columbian times.
Score: 1/10

Central America
Similar to North America, lacking these domestic animals historically.
Score: 1/10

South America
Lacks historical presence of these specific domestic animals.
Score: 1/10

Zosimus:  Thanks, based on the animals described in the book, which region of the world is the most plausible geographical setting?

GPT-4: Based on the list of animals described in your book for two distinct periods (2500 BC to 600 BC and 600 BC to 420 AD), the most plausible geographical setting seems to be South Asia or Southeast Asia. This conclusion is drawn from the following key points:

Presence of a Wide Range of Domesticated Animals: Both South Asia and Southeast Asia historically had cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, and asses, which aligns with the animals listed for the earlier period in your book.

Inclusion of Elephants: The presence of domesticated elephants is particularly indicative. Both South Asia and Southeast Asia have a long history of elephant domestication, especially the Asian Elephant (Elephas maximus), which has been a significant part of the culture and economy in these regions. This aligns well with the animal list for the earlier period (2500 BC to 600 BC) in your book.

Continued Presence of Other Domesticated Animals in the Later Period: The animals listed for the later period (600 BC to 420 AD) are also consistent with what would be expected in these regions. The omission of swine and elephants in the later period could reflect changes in cultural practices, environmental factors, or simply a shift in focus within the narrative of the book.

Historical and Cultural Context: Both South Asia and Southeast Asia have rich and diverse histories that include the domestication and use of these animals. Their civilizations, including the Indus Valley Civilization in South Asia and various historical kingdoms in Southeast Asia, have shown evidence of such animal husbandry practices.

While this analysis is based on the animal evidence provided, it is essential to consider that the exact geographical setting might also depend on other factors in the book, such as descriptions of the landscape, climate, and cultural practices. However, based solely on the animal evidence, South Asia and Southeast Asia emerge as the most plausible regions.

Zosimus: Understood. We'll look at other factors in upcoming conversations. If you could keep tabs on the scoring for each topic we cover, we'll consider the final score at the end of our assessment.

GPT-4: Absolutely! I'll keep track of the scores from each conversation as we assess different factors. This will allow us to build a comprehensive evaluation of the most plausible geographical setting based on the cumulative information from your book. Feel free to provide more details or factors in future conversations, and I'll incorporate them into our ongoing analysis. Whenever you're ready to proceed with the next aspect of your assessment, just let me know!

Edited December 23, 2023 by Zosimus

[The Nehor]

Why are people still treating this thing as if it is intelligent? It is a skilled liar. It is a fun parlor trick. No one should take anything it says seriously.

It is also not AI in any real sense.

Me: Why do you say wrong things so confidently?

ChatGPT: I don't intentionally provide incorrect information, but I might generate responses that seem confident even when the information is inaccurate. This is because I generate text based on patterns learned from a diverse range of sources during my training. If there are inaccuracies in the data I was trained on or if the context of a question is unclear, I may produce responses that sound confident but are incorrect.

It's crucial to approach the information I provide with a degree of skepticism and, when needed, verify it through reliable sources. If you ever have doubts about the accuracy of a response or need information for critical decision-making, consulting experts or authoritative references is recommended. I'm a tool that can assist with information, but I'm not a substitute for critical thinking or verification.

Edited December 23, 2023 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

It is fairly easy to trick. I gave it an old riddle.

Me: A princess is as old as the prince will be when the princess is twice as old as the prince was when the princess' age was half the sum of their present age.

ChatGPT:

Let's break down the information given:

Let P be the current age of the princess. Let Pr be the current age of the prince.

The problem can be expressed with the following equations:

A princess is as old as the prince will be: P = Pr

When the princess was half the sum of their present age: P = 0.5 * (P + Pr)

Now, let's solve these equations. First, we can substitute P with Pr in the second equation:

Pr = 0.5 * (Pr + Pr) Pr = 0.5 * (2 * Pr) Pr = Pr (This equation is always true, regardless of the value of Pr)

This means that the second equation doesn't provide any additional information to help determine the specific ages of the princess and the prince. There is not enough information given to solve for their exact ages.

If you have any additional information or if there's more to the problem that wasn't included, please provide it, and I'll do my best to assist you.

 

While true that you cannot solve for their exact ages you can get a ratio. If you do the algebra the Princess:Prince age ratio is 3:4. Her age is 3/4ths of his. If he is 20 she is 15. It founders when dealing with descriptions like this that require thought and puzzling it out because it can’t actually think. It might be able to get lucky if its database had a similar riddle. Instead it flubs up at the beginning and assumes they are the same age when any human can tell they aren’t.

It doesn’t think.

[Zosimus]

54 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It doesn’t think.

Yeah, as it describes itself: "I'm a tool that can assist with information, but I'm not a substitute for critical thinking or verification."

Quote

Question: Can you think?

GPT-4: As an AI, I don't think or possess consciousness like humans do. My responses are generated based on patterns and information in the data I was trained on. I can provide information, answer questions, and perform tasks within the scope of my programming, but it's not the result of thought or reflection—it's computation. If you have any other questions or need assistance with something else, feel free to ask!

the point is that the humans talking about Book of Mormon geography in that Youtube vid weren't doing much thinking either. So I thought I'd ask a machine instead

Edited December 23, 2023 by Zosimus

[Pyreaux]

Neat though. There is a Book of Mormon Ethiopia model, why not a South Asia model? They got elephants!

[Tacenda]

It's easy to see that scripture is muddled with men mingling. 

[CV75]

6 hours ago, Zosimus said:

I suffered through this episode of Ward Radio and somewhere near the middle it became clear these guys don't know enough about history or geography to justify investing a full hour into listening. I thought, instead, why not find out what GPT-4 has to say about Book of Mormon geography?

Here was my first conversation with ChatGPT. I'll ask the bot more questions in upcoming replies below this thread but thought animals would be a good place to start.

Zosimus: Hello ChatGPT. I have a book that was published in 1830 that claims to contain a history of a people that lived between 2500 BC and 420 AD. I'd like to know where the events of the book happened, but all I know about the geographical setting is what the book has to say about the material culture of the people described in the book. I will give you a list of the animals found in the book and would like for you to give your best estimation of the geographical location. Are you ready?

GPT-4: Yes, I'm ready. Please provide the list of animals mentioned in the book, and I'll use that information to give my best estimation of the geographical location where the events of the book could have taken place.

Zosimus: Before we begin, let's categorize the world into 13 different regions. We can then give a score to each region, with a 10 being "extremely good convergence" and a 1 being an "extremely poor convergence". Here are the regions I propose: Europe, South Asia, Southeast Asia, East Asia, Central Asia, West Asia, North Africa:, Sub-Saharan Africa, Australasia/Oceania, North America, Central America, South America

GPT-4: Your approach for categorizing the world into 13 regions and scoring them based on the convergence of animal species mentioned in your book is a sound method for estimating the geographical setting. This method will allow us to assess which region most likely corresponds to the descriptions in the book, based on the historical presence of these animals from 2500 BC to 420 AD.

The scoring system, where 10 indicates "extremely good convergence" and 1 indicates "extremely poor convergence," will help quantify the fit of each region to the animal data you provide.

Please go ahead and list the animals mentioned in your book, and I will analyze and score each region accordingly.

Zosimus:  The book lists these animals as being present in the land during a period between 2500 BC and 600 BC: cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, asses, elephants. The book also mentions these animals as being present in the land between 600 BC and 420 AD: cow, ox, ***, horse, goat, and wild goat. On a scale of 1 to 10, give a score to each region.

GPT-4: To assign a score to each region based on the presence of the specified animals in two distinct time periods (2500 BC to 600 BC, and 600 BC to 420 AD), we'll consider the historical distribution of these animals in each region. The score will be on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is an extremely poor convergence and 10 is an extremely good convergence.

Animals Listed:

2500 BC to 600 BC: cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, asses, elephants
600 BC to 420 AD: cow, ox, ***, horse, goat, wild goat

Regional Scoring:

South Asia
Historically had all the listed animals, including elephants.
Score: 10/10

Southeast Asia
Similar to South Asia, with a history of these animals, including elephants.
Score: 10/10

Central Asia
Known for horses, livestock but not for elephants.
Score: 4/10

West Asia (Middle East)
Many of the animals were present, but elephants were uncommon.
Score: 4/10

East Asia
Had many of the animals, but elephants were less common.
Score: 3/10

North Africa
Had a history of animal domestication, but Asian elephants were not common.
Score: 3/10

Sub-Saharan Africa
Different environment; African elephants were present but not the Asian species.
Score: 3/10

Europe
Ancient Europe had cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, and asses. Elephants were not common.
Score: 2/10

Australasia/Oceania
Lacks historical record of these domesticated animals, especially elephants.
Score: 1/10

North America
Did not have these domestic animals until post-Columbian times.
Score: 1/10

Central America
Similar to North America, lacking these domestic animals historically.
Score: 1/10

South America
Lacks historical presence of these specific domestic animals.
Score: 1/10

Zosimus:  Thanks, based on the animals described in the book, which region of the world is the most plausible geographical setting?

GPT-4: Based on the list of animals described in your book for two distinct periods (2500 BC to 600 BC and 600 BC to 420 AD), the most plausible geographical setting seems to be South Asia or Southeast Asia. This conclusion is drawn from the following key points:

Presence of a Wide Range of Domesticated Animals: Both South Asia and Southeast Asia historically had cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, and asses, which aligns with the animals listed for the earlier period in your book.

Inclusion of Elephants: The presence of domesticated elephants is particularly indicative. Both South Asia and Southeast Asia have a long history of elephant domestication, especially the Asian Elephant (Elephas maximus), which has been a significant part of the culture and economy in these regions. This aligns well with the animal list for the earlier period (2500 BC to 600 BC) in your book.

Continued Presence of Other Domesticated Animals in the Later Period: The animals listed for the later period (600 BC to 420 AD) are also consistent with what would be expected in these regions. The omission of swine and elephants in the later period could reflect changes in cultural practices, environmental factors, or simply a shift in focus within the narrative of the book.

Historical and Cultural Context: Both South Asia and Southeast Asia have rich and diverse histories that include the domestication and use of these animals. Their civilizations, including the Indus Valley Civilization in South Asia and various historical kingdoms in Southeast Asia, have shown evidence of such animal husbandry practices.

While this analysis is based on the animal evidence provided, it is essential to consider that the exact geographical setting might also depend on other factors in the book, such as descriptions of the landscape, climate, and cultural practices. However, based solely on the animal evidence, South Asia and Southeast Asia emerge as the most plausible regions.

Zosimus: Understood. We'll look at other factors in upcoming conversations. If you could keep tabs on the scoring for each topic we cover, we'll consider the final score at the end of our assessment.

GPT-4: Absolutely! I'll keep track of the scores from each conversation as we assess different factors. This will allow us to build a comprehensive evaluation of the most plausible geographical setting based on the cumulative information from your book. Feel free to provide more details or factors in future conversations, and I'll incorporate them into our ongoing analysis. Whenever you're ready to proceed with the next aspect of your assessment, just let me know!

I knew it!

[BeNotDeceived]

One purported to be The Davidic Servant says that the United Kingdom is the setting of the BOM. 

[InCognitus]

25 minutes ago, BeNotDeceived said:

One purported to be The Davidic Servant says that the United Kingdom is the setting of the BOM. 

Well, that would explain why it's translated into Early Modern English.  But I'm not sure how that would work for other aspects of the book.

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, BeNotDeceived said:

One purported to be The Davidic Servant

By whom?

[The Nehor]

You forgot to ask about the cureloms and cumoms.

[rodheadlee]

11 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Neat though. There is a Book of Mormon Ethiopia model, why not a South Asia model? They got elephants!

There is. I can't remember that guy's name but he used to post here all the time with information on southeast Asia model. Perhaps calm or somebody can remember.

I don't think naming the Animals is sufficient geographic information to decide where it took place.

[Zosimus]

41 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You forgot to ask about the cureloms and cumoms.

Ha I thought about including them but figured it'd prompt ChatGPT to start poking around in the Book of Mormon. Trying to keep the questions as generic as possible so the machine doesn't find apologetic material. But for fun I opened a new instance to ask for an image of what cureloms and cumoms might look like. 

[Zosimus]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

You forgot to ask about the cureloms and cumoms.

OK, i've asked this question:

Zosimus: The book also mentions two unique animals that were "useful" to humans but it does not identify these two animals by name. Could you provide examples of what these two animals might have been in 2500 BC. Please provide two examples for each region.

GPT-4: Certainly! For each of the regions we've discussed, I'll provide two examples of unique animals that could have been "useful" to humans around 2500 BC, but are not explicitly identified by the common names you've listed from the book. These suggestions are based on historical records and archaeological findings, as well as the known domestication and utility of various animals in different regions during that time.

Europe
Aurochs: The wild ancestor of modern cattle, known for its strength and size, and may have been used for heavy tasks or as a source of meat.
Reindeer: Used by some northern cultures for transportation, clothing, and as a food source.

South Asia
Yak: Primarily used in the Himalayan region for carrying loads, milk, and meat.
Water Buffalo: Used for plowing and other agricultural tasks, and as a source of milk and meat.

Southeast Asia
Water Buffalo: Similar to South Asia, used for agriculture and as a food source.
Banteng: A type of wild cattle native to Southeast Asia, domesticated for agricultural use.

East Asia
Silkworm: Integral to the silk industry, crucial for producing silk.
Chinese Water Deer: Possibly used for meat and hide.

Central Asia
Bactrian Camel: Used for transportation across the harsh terrain of Central Asia.
Saiga Antelope: Hunted for meat, horns (used in traditional medicine), and hide.

West Asia (Middle East)
Camel (Dromedary): Essential for transportation, especially in arid regions.
Fallow Deer: Possibly used for meat and hide.

North Africa
Camel (Dromedary): As in the Middle East, vital for transport and trade.
Barbary Sheep: Used for meat and possibly for wool.

Sub-Saharan Africa
Donkey: Used for transportation and carrying loads.
Guineafowl: Domesticated for eggs and meat.

Australasia/Oceania
Dingo: Possibly used by indigenous Australians for hunting or as a companion animal.
Cassowary: Used by some indigenous groups for meat and feathers.

North America
Bison: Used by Native Americans for meat, hide, and other materials.
Turkey: Domesticated by some Native American cultures for food.

Central America
Muscovy Duck: Domesticated for eggs and meat.
Iguana: Used by some indigenous cultures for meat.

South America
Llama: Domesticated for transport, wool, and meat.
Guinea Pig: Raised for meat.

It's important to note that the exact animals would depend on various factors, including the specific environment, cultural practices, and the level of animal domestication in each region during that time period.

[mfbukowski]

12 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Neat though. There is a Book of Mormon Ethiopia model, why not a South Asia model? They got elephants!

There have been discussions right here about SE Asia being a possibility.

If someone who knows how the search functions work here, that could be fruitful; that ain't me!

If @Calm is not too busy, she might be of some help.

[Zosimus]

49 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

There is. I can't remember that guy's name but he used to post here all the time with information on southeast Asia model. Perhaps calm or somebody can remember.

It was me, I used to post under @Rajah Manchou but lost access to that account. But this experiment is going to be independent of any bias I mightI have had before. I'm only interested in what region of the world AI ranks as the most plausible location of the events described in the Book of Mormon.

49 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

I don't think naming the Animals is sufficient geographic information to decide where it took place.

We'll explore other topics, including metallurgy, weights and measures, ancient DNA, scripts, literacy, corresponding historical events, and warfare. We'll also ask AI to compare the internal geography of the book to real world locations.

[Millcreek]

2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

I don't think naming the Animals is sufficient geographic information to decide where it took place.

What would be sufficient geographical information to decide where a fictional text occurred? 

[Zosimus]

6 minutes ago, Millcreek said:

What would be sufficient geographical information to decide where a fictional text occurred? 

IMO, fictional or historical, the Book of Mormon has a real-world setting. But maybe it doesn't. All the more reason to see if AI can add something to to the discussion

[Millcreek]

12 minutes ago, Zosimus said:

IMO, fictional or historical, the Book of Mormon has a real-world setting. But maybe it doesn't. All the more reason to see if AI can add something to to the discussion

Your point is conceded.

[Zosimus]

Next question for the bot will concern the migrations of the Jaredites to the land described in the Book. I want to keep the prompts as unbiased as possible, so if anyone has anything to add, or something that I haven't considered, please drop your suggestions in the comments

Suggested Prompt: 

The book describes a tribe of people that existed around the time and location of the Tower of Babel in the Bible. These people supposedly walked a great distance before settling in tents in a mountainous coastal area. After four years, these people built eight boats or barges about the length of a tree. They drifted in these vessels for about a year until they arrived in the land described in the book.

The book describes the land as being removed and almost entirely isolated from the civilizations of the Middle East before the 6th century BC. in your scoring, please consider that the land described in the text should be far enough away from the Tower of Babel to guarantee that it would be isolated, but it should also be within a plausible range given the maritime technology of the time

Considering we want to identify the land described in the book, give a score to each region, with a 1 being an extremely poor convergence and a 10 being an extremely good convergence.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Zosimus

[carbon dioxide]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:21 AM, Zosimus said:

I suffered through this episode of Ward Radio and somewhere near the middle it became clear these guys don't know enough about history or geography to justify investing a full hour into listening. I thought, instead, why not find out what GPT-4 has to say about Book of Mormon geography?

Here was my first conversation with ChatGPT. I'll ask the bot more questions in upcoming replies below this thread but thought animals would be a good place to start.

Zosimus: Hello ChatGPT. I have a book that was published in 1830 that claims to contain a history of a people that lived between 2500 BC and 420 AD. I'd like to know where the events of the book happened, but all I know about the geographical setting is what the book has to say about the material culture of the people described in the book. I will give you a list of the animals found in the book and would like for you to give your best estimation of the geographical location. Are you ready?

GPT-4: Yes, I'm ready. Please provide the list of animals mentioned in the book, and I'll use that information to give my best estimation of the geographical location where the events of the book could have taken place.

Zosimus: Before we begin, let's categorize the world into 13 different regions. We can then give a score to each region, with a 10 being "extremely good convergence" and a 1 being an "extremely poor convergence". Here are the regions I propose: Europe, South Asia, Southeast Asia, East Asia, Central Asia, West Asia, North Africa:, Sub-Saharan Africa, Australasia/Oceania, North America, Central America, South America

GPT-4: Your approach for categorizing the world into 13 regions and scoring them based on the convergence of animal species mentioned in your book is a sound method for estimating the geographical setting. This method will allow us to assess which region most likely corresponds to the descriptions in the book, based on the historical presence of these animals from 2500 BC to 420 AD.

The scoring system, where 10 indicates "extremely good convergence" and 1 indicates "extremely poor convergence," will help quantify the fit of each region to the animal data you provide.

Please go ahead and list the animals mentioned in your book, and I will analyze and score each region accordingly.

Zosimus:  The book lists these animals as being present in the land during a period between 2500 BC and 600 BC: cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, asses, elephants. The book also mentions these animals as being present in the land between 600 BC and 420 AD: cow, ox, ***, horse, goat, and wild goat. On a scale of 1 to 10, give a score to each region.

GPT-4: To assign a score to each region based on the presence of the specified animals in two distinct time periods (2500 BC to 600 BC, and 600 BC to 420 AD), we'll consider the historical distribution of these animals in each region. The score will be on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is an extremely poor convergence and 10 is an extremely good convergence.

Animals Listed:

2500 BC to 600 BC: cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, asses, elephants
600 BC to 420 AD: cow, ox, ***, horse, goat, wild goat

Regional Scoring:

South Asia
Historically had all the listed animals, including elephants.
Score: 10/10

Southeast Asia
Similar to South Asia, with a history of these animals, including elephants.
Score: 10/10

Central Asia
Known for horses, livestock but not for elephants.
Score: 4/10

West Asia (Middle East)
Many of the animals were present, but elephants were uncommon.
Score: 4/10

East Asia
Had many of the animals, but elephants were less common.
Score: 3/10

North Africa
Had a history of animal domestication, but Asian elephants were not common.
Score: 3/10

Sub-Saharan Africa
Different environment; African elephants were present but not the Asian species.
Score: 3/10

Europe
Ancient Europe had cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, and asses. Elephants were not common.
Score: 2/10

Australasia/Oceania
Lacks historical record of these domesticated animals, especially elephants.
Score: 1/10

North America
Did not have these domestic animals until post-Columbian times.
Score: 1/10

Central America
Similar to North America, lacking these domestic animals historically.
Score: 1/10

South America
Lacks historical presence of these specific domestic animals.
Score: 1/10

Zosimus:  Thanks, based on the animals described in the book, which region of the world is the most plausible geographical setting?

GPT-4: Based on the list of animals described in your book for two distinct periods (2500 BC to 600 BC and 600 BC to 420 AD), the most plausible geographical setting seems to be South Asia or Southeast Asia. This conclusion is drawn from the following key points:

Presence of a Wide Range of Domesticated Animals: Both South Asia and Southeast Asia historically had cattle, oxen, cows, sheep, swine, goats, horses, and asses, which aligns with the animals listed for the earlier period in your book.

Inclusion of Elephants: The presence of domesticated elephants is particularly indicative. Both South Asia and Southeast Asia have a long history of elephant domestication, especially the Asian Elephant (Elephas maximus), which has been a significant part of the culture and economy in these regions. This aligns well with the animal list for the earlier period (2500 BC to 600 BC) in your book.

Continued Presence of Other Domesticated Animals in the Later Period: The animals listed for the later period (600 BC to 420 AD) are also consistent with what would be expected in these regions. The omission of swine and elephants in the later period could reflect changes in cultural practices, environmental factors, or simply a shift in focus within the narrative of the book.

Historical and Cultural Context: Both South Asia and Southeast Asia have rich and diverse histories that include the domestication and use of these animals. Their civilizations, including the Indus Valley Civilization in South Asia and various historical kingdoms in Southeast Asia, have shown evidence of such animal husbandry practices.

While this analysis is based on the animal evidence provided, it is essential to consider that the exact geographical setting might also depend on other factors in the book, such as descriptions of the landscape, climate, and cultural practices. However, based solely on the animal evidence, South Asia and Southeast Asia emerge as the most plausible regions.

Zosimus: Understood. We'll look at other factors in upcoming conversations. If you could keep tabs on the scoring for each topic we cover, we'll consider the final score at the end of our assessment.

GPT-4: Absolutely! I'll keep track of the scores from each conversation as we assess different factors. This will allow us to build a comprehensive evaluation of the most plausible geographical setting based on the cumulative information from your book. Feel free to provide more details or factors in future conversations, and I'll incorporate them into our ongoing analysis. Whenever you're ready to proceed with the next aspect of your assessment, just let me know!

AI only knows what information is put in but does not really do well determining the quality of the information.  Garbage in you get garbage out.  The Book of Mormon is an English translation from non English speaking and writing people several thousand years ago and how exact is the carry over from one to the other?  Does AI take all of those issues into account?  I highly doubt it.

[Pyreaux]

3 hours ago, Zosimus said:

Next question for the bot will concern the migrations of the Jaredites to the land described in the Book. I want to keep the prompts as unbiased as possible, so if anyone has anything to add, or something that I haven't considered, please drop your suggestions in the comments

Suggested Prompt: 

The book describes a tribe of people that existed around the time and location of the Tower of Babel in the Bible. These people supposedly walked a great distance before settling in tents in a mountainous coastal area. After four years, these people built eight boats or barges about the length of a tree. They drifted in these vessels for about a year until they arrived in the land described in the book.

The book describes the land as being removed and almost entirely isolated from the civilizations of the Middle East before the 6th century BC. in your scoring, please consider that the land described in the text should be far enough away from the Tower of Babel to guarantee that it would be isolated, but it should also be within a plausible range given the maritime technology of the time

Considering we want to identify the land described in the book, give a score to each region, with a 1 being an extremely poor convergence and a 10 being an extremely good convergence.

You are limiting it too much, ancient sea-bearing tech abilities is very debatable. I bet it would never guess anywhere across an ocean, you should say starting from ancient Babylon, through a desert big enough to get lost in, carrying honeybees to the mountainous coast, smelted quartz balls, built seafaring barges, reached somewhere best accessible by sea. Their new location was unknown, and they built cities. There were elephants or possibly elephant-like animals (like mammoths), and one person forged many ferrous metal swords, millions died in a war. Their civilization collapsed. Where on earth do you think they sailed from and where did you think they landed.

[webbles]

You should also ask how many people would fit in those 8 barges, along with food, water, and animals.

[mfbukowski]

To me, historicity is irrelevant.

Was there "really" an exodus? Irrelevant!  We all have situations that enslave us- the question is that, if we have testimonies, Christ enables us to OVERCOME THE WORLD. 

Was Christ a fable?  Also irrelevant! THE STORY is either spiritually relevant to you in teaching how YOU can also overcome the world through refining that "still small voice" which we all have- or it isn't.

Does that spiritual "radio reception" come from a Being or not - is the only relevant question.

Are those qualia caused by an external source or not?  Have we evolved to know good from evil or not, and how does that impact our lives pragmatically?

I don't care if it all happned on the moon, or didn't happen at all.

I KNOW there is a Being who IS the still small voice, and for me that is all that matters.

You can actually be an "atheist" and believe that- the little voice exists, and many contemporary  philosophers have in fact taken that position.

In fact "Empirical Theology" is exploding right now.

Google those words, and here is a good article :  https://www.religion-online.org/article/empirical-theology-a-revisable-tradition/

Edited December 24, 2023 by mfbukowski

[CV75]

2 hours ago, webbles said:

You should also ask how many people would fit in those 8 barges, along with food, water, and animals.

Hmmm I think I got this one: there was a priest, a rabbi and an imam... no wait: an Irishman, a Jew and a Southern Black man... that's not it: a butcher, a baker and a candlestick maker... (no): a soldier and a sailor, a tinker and a tailor... (eh, they were in another boat) ...  an American, and Englishman and an Iraqi... Final answer: a grasshopper, a captain and Murray:

A grasshopper walks into a barge and orders a beer. The captain says, "Hey, we have a drink named after you." The grasshopper says, "Really? You have a drink named Murray?"