Teachings of Joseph Smith on the Gift of the Holy Ghost and Gifts of the Spirit

[Benjamin McGuire]

17 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

No, you were totally wrong.

No, and I am still not wrong.

17 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

33 minutes ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

And do you believe that this is true?

No, not really. 

You see, most members of the LDS Church do in fact believe that current revelation trumps past revelation.

17 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

I disagree. I believe that the term progressive can be appropriately used in this context.

Perhaps. But then, perhaps not.

17 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

And considering the disdain and derision with which my expression of conservative views were met with by a group of individuals on this board, I believe that referring to them as progressive is appropriate. That’s not derogatory, it’s just identifying perspectives and biases. 

Again, I will disagree. But it really doesn't matter to you, does it. In any case, my point has been made, and I will bow out of the discussion. Feel free to have the last word.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Benjamin McGuire

[Grug the Neanderthal]

6 hours ago, Navidad said:

Today read I Cor. 3: 21 and memorize it. Then think about it whenever you post.

21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

These are the words of the apostle and prophet Paul, a man. I don’t think he’s saying not to believe the words of God's prophets, because all prophets are men. 

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

No, and I am still not wrong.

You see, most members of the LDS Church do in fact believe that current revelation trumps past revelation.

Perhaps. But then, perhaps not.

Again, I will disagree. But it really doesn't matter to you, does it. In any case, my point has been made, and I will bow out of the discussion. Feel free to have the last word.

My experience is that Fundamentalists share certain characteristics in whichever faith they are identified. There are commonalities in practice, attitude, hubris, and certainty, if not in doctrine. I grew up in non-LDS Christian Fundamentalism, touching that of a Mennonite, Presbyterian, and Baptist nature.

I now study, and interact quite a lot with Mormon Fundamentalists here in Mexico. I have not come across Catholic Fundamentalists here in Mexico, because in my experience the Mexican Catholic experience leans diocesan, secular, and rather laissez-faire (with the exception of the Franciscans).

I believe there is also a world of LDS Fundamentalism that at times is demonstrated on this board. Mennonite Fundamentalism is predominantly cultural, Presbyterian Fundamentalism is predominantly intellectual, and that of Baptists is predominantly "these are the things I am against"-centric. It seems to me that Mormon Fundamentalists are about separation from and authority (power). LDS Fundamentalism seems at least in part about rejecting what has been called by some "New Mormon history" in favor of a more sacred or polemic history perspective.

I once served on a panel with a new Mormon (LDS) history scholar and what I would term a Fundamentalist or traditionalist Mormon (LDS) scholar on the subject of the LDS history in Missouri! Ouch! I thought I was going to get smothered between them. My role was to talk about simple things like Zion's Camp and malaria, the Gilead Baptist Church rescue of the LDS men, including Joseph Smith at Fishing Creek, and whether or not Jacob Hawn was Mennonite and went to Oregon to establish Mennonite colonies! I had it easy! The non-LDS Christian Fundamentalist movement is shrinking. That is a good thing I think. It may lessen the temperature just a bit on the LDS propensity for a persecution-centric identity which can only be matched by that of the conservative Mennonite!  😀 Best wishes to all.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Navidad

[teddyaware]

12 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Yeah the Terrestrail Kingdom, not Telestial kingdom my mistake.

But the TK is actually just the same place as earth. And on that place they need to learn more about the gospel to get into the Celestail Kingdom. At least that is what some Mormons happends to believe. Plus somebody needs to baptize these past people in the temple as well. That is required for these people to move on to the Celestail Kingdom. 

You know what Neanderthal, i don't buy this. I'm not that kind of Mormon. 

The post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is most definitely not at all ‘the same place as earth.” There are great differences between the pre-resurrection ‘telestial world’ on which we’re now living, and the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom of heavenly glory. But it’s understandable that you’d be confused on this matter because you’re new to all of this.

To set things straight, I’ll mention just a few of the differences:

1) The fallen telestial world is populated by mortal human beings, all of whom will die; meanwhile the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is populated only by immortal, resurrected human beings.

2) The fallen telestial world is the dwelling place of the devil and millions of his evil spirit followers who are filled with unquenchable hate and bent on revenge; meanwhile the devil and his evil spirit followers are not permitted to enter and wreak havoc in the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom.

3) The fallen telestial world is a realm of great mortal suffering, sorrow  and near-constant destructive conflict; mean while the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is a realm of peace and happiness that is far beyond present human comprehension.

There are more differences, but the ones I’ve listed will suffice for now.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by teddyaware

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

No, and I am still not wrong.

You see, most members of the LDS Church do in fact believe that current revelation trumps past revelation.

Perhaps. But then, perhaps not.

Again, I will disagree. But it really doesn't matter to you, does it. In any case, my point has been made, and I will bow out of the discussion. Feel free to have the last word.

I feel for Grug, I think I'd be in the dark if I didn't post on this board and read from you all. I'd still believe things such as Grug does.

[MustardSeed]

39 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I feel for Grug, I think I'd be in the dark if I didn't post on this board and read from you all. I'd still believe things such as Grug does.

I don’t think you would be in the dark.  I think people find whatever they are looking for. This board is mostly just ego and arguments with a little truth scattered, IMO.  Truth comes as we mature, if we are not afraid to grow.  If we were supposed to remain in primary, we would still be there.  If Grug and others want to remain in their views that the church past Brigham is impure, well there have been plenty of offshoots to the church claiming the same. 

[mfbukowski]

37 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I feel for Grug, I think I'd be in the dark if I didn't post on this board and read from you all. I'd still believe things such as Grug does.

Which often leads to people leaving.

There SEEMS to be so much that makes no sense until you change your perspective and interpretation.

With new eyes about the nature of "truth" in a religious context, the confirmations are both spiritual AND logical.  It's a beautiful way to see God and the world He gave us.

There is no room for doubt.  It's all true.  Some cannot be spoken though, but simply experienced, like trying to explain color to a blind person.

The discussions here sometimes seem like arguing about if red is really green.  

Pick your words for yourself 

[Grug the Neanderthal]

22 hours ago, bluebell said:

As far as I can tell, no one is arguing that nothing is obtained when one receives the gift of the Holy Ghost that can't be received another way.

Weren’t you arguing that being baptized and receiving the laying on of hands wasn’t actually always necessary to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost? Wasn’t that your whole point with Acts 10, that the gift of the Holy Ghost can be received without this? 

And aren’t you and several others arguing that Joseph Smith was wrong and that receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is not a requirement for receiving the gifts of the spirit? 

So for the third or fourth time (and please don’t dodge the question this time), I would really like you to answer the question about what the purpose of the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands is if the Gift of the Holy Ghost, with all of it's blessings, can be obtained without this ordinance. Or alternatively please explain what it is that you believe is given when one receives the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands that can be received in no other way.

22 hours ago, bluebell said:

Like I said previously, the pushback you are getting comes from your many posts implying that only members have access to the gifts of the spirit or can experience the Holy Ghost

I have repeatedly said that people can experience manifestations of the Holy Ghost and have the influence of the Holy Ghost prior to receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. I have also said that people can manifest things like charity, faith, revelation etc., (which are the things people are calling gifts of the spirit) to varying degrees without first receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So your explanation doesn’t fly. 

The real reason that I’m getting so much push back is that people either find what Joseph Smith taught offensive and are upset with me for defending what he taught, just want to argue terminology, just want to argue in general, or just like taking cheap shots at people they disagree with or don’t like. 
 

22 hours ago, bluebell said:

What is the difference?  JFS didn't believe he was stating his opinion.  He believed he was stating fact based on our doctrine.

JFS Smith wasn’t setting forth doctrine on principles of the gospel, like the necessity of ordinances and how the gift of the Holy Ghost works. He was giving his opinion about whether man would reach the moon (which by the way many people dispute we even did). That’s a huge difference. 

Plus, Joseph Smith was a much greater prophet, seer, and revelator than any of his successors were. It’s not even close.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Grug the Neanderthal

[Dario_M]

16 hours ago, blackstrap said:

Small world. A grandchild is currently serving in Portugal.

Oh my, really? Would be crazy if he happends to be serving in our ward here in Miratejo. Than the world would be really smal. 🌎

Edited March 4, 2023 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

The post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is most definitely not at all ‘the same place as earth.”

I whas talking about the Terrestrial Kingdom. Pay attention. Teddy.

6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

There are great differences between the pre-resurrection ‘telestial world’ on which we’re now living, and the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom of heavenly glory.

Telestial had nothing to do with heaven i though. That whas the Celestial Kingdom

6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

But it’s understandable that you’d be confused on this matter because you’re new to all of this.

Well...thanks for your understanding. Teddy.

6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

To set things straight, I’ll mention just a few of the differences:

1) The fallen telestial world is populated by mortal human beings, all of whom will die; meanwhile the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is populated only by immortal, resurrected human beings.

2) The fallen telestial world is the dwelling place of the devil and millions of his evil spirit followers who are filled with unquenchable hate and bent on revenge; meanwhile the devil and his evil spirit followers are not permitted to enter and wreak havoc in the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom.

3) The fallen telestial world is a realm of great mortal suffering, sorrow  and near-constant destructive conflict; mean while the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is a realm of peace and happiness that is far beyond present human comprehension.

This really make's no sense at all. You must be talking about purgatory right now. 

The telestial kingdom is still a kingdom. You still injoy some....kind relieve. 

What you are now describing is just Purgatory excuse e moi. 

6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

There are more differences, but the ones I’ve listed will suffice for now.

 

 

Well. Thank you very much. I will discuss this matter with my missionaris anyway. Teddy. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Dario_M

[Navidad]

11 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

These are the words of the apostle and prophet Paul, a man. I don’t think he’s saying not to believe the words of God's prophets, because all prophets are men. 

Paul is not referring to believing or not. He is talking about boasting in men, like the Corinthians, who he said at the beginning of the chapter were spiritual babies, were doing about Paul, Silas, Apollos, etc.

[Navidad]

8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Which often leads to people leaving.

There SEEMS to be so much that makes no sense until you change your perspective and interpretation.

With new eyes about the nature of "truth" in a religious context, the confirmations are both spiritual AND logical.  It's a beautiful way to see God and the world He gave us.

There is no room for doubt.  It's all true.  Some cannot be spoken though, but simply experienced, like trying to explain color to a blind person.

The discussions here sometimes seem like arguing about if red is really green.  

Pick your words for yourself 

I like what you are saying, except perhaps for the true part. Would you not agree that experience is both subjective and personal? If that is correct, then the best I can claim is my truth-not thee truth. Then I realize and expect that my truth (experience etc.) won't be your truth and we can be at peace with each other, especially when our respective truths don't match.

[Navidad]

5 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Oh my, really? Would be crazy if he happends to be serving in our ward here in Miratejo. Than the world would be really smal. 🌎

I have always wanted to come to Portugal to see the Algaerve area. So much navigational history there. I enjoy the study of Portolan charts. Maybe some day! Have a good day!

[Grug the Neanderthal]

3 hours ago, Navidad said:

He is talking about boasting in men, like the Corinthians, who he said at the beginning of the chapter were spiritual babies, were doing about Paul, Silas, Apollos, etc.

1 Cor 3 doesn’t say that the people were boasting in Paul, Apollos, etc. 

The "man" he was referring to was those who are wise as to the things of this world, which are foolish unto God.

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

And then he includes himself and other servants of God among the things that these converts now had, since they had embraced the gospel.

22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Grug the Neanderthal

[Dario_M]

18 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I have always wanted to come to Portugal to see the Algaerve area. So much navigational history there. I enjoy the study of Portolan charts. Maybe some day! Have a good day!

The Algaerve area is nice indeed. But! The Lisbon, Miratejo, Almada, area is not so nice unfortunatly. Lot's of crime on the moment. And unpleasant people. And it is way to bussy everywhere. Stay far away from it. It's only a waste of your money and time if you ask me. 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Dario_M

[Navidad]

8 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

The real reason that I’m getting so much push back is that people either find what Joseph Smith taught offensive and are upset with me for defending what he taught, just want to argue terminology, just want to argue in general, or just like taking cheap shots at people they disagree with or don’t like. 

Might I point out that all four of your reasons in this section of your post are negative? What if we disagree or have issues with what you say because 1.we simply and sincerely hold different views than you, and 2. feel lessened by the rather consistently negative manner (please reread your four reasons) in which you portray those who do indeed hold views that don't align with yours? Offer me advice. Give me something new to think about. Challenge my Scriptural interpretation, but don't lessen me because I have been led by the Spirit in a different path than you have. We just may be both holding on to the same iron rod!

[Navidad]

11 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

1 Cor 3 does say that the people were boasting in Paul, Apollos, etc. 

The "man" he was referring to was those who are wise as to the things of this world, which are foolish unto God.

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

And then he includes himself and other servants of God among the things that these converts now had, since they had embraced the gospel.

22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s.

Exactly. And I, Navidad am Christ's, as is Grug. As was Joseph Smith, as was Menno Simons, as was John Wesley, Billy Graham, Wilford Woodruff, my dear friend Waldo P Call, and another dear friend John R. W. Stott. I have nothing but the highest regard for Reid Neilson, former Managing Director of the Church History Dept. Same for Rick Turkey, as Godly a man as you will find. Same for Mennonite Bishop Don Augsburger, thoroughly a Man in Christ. Yet, I cannot boast or put my faith in any of them, because like me, they are, as humans fallible -me especially.. I respect them, but put my faith in Christ. Apollos? I think he wrote the book of Hebrews, probably one of the greatest books of Scripture ever written. But glory or boast in him? Nope! That is reserved for the Savior.

[Grug the Neanderthal]

29 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Might I point out that all four of your reasons in this section of your post are negative?

I believe that the reasons Iisted are accurate. 

I put you in category number 1. You find what Joseph Smith taught about many of the spiritual manifestations in Christian sects being the result of false spirits to be offensive to the Holy Ghost and even blasphemy, because you have a different perspective. And that’s fine. I get that. 

The people who just want to argue and take cheap shots is a whole different matter. 

[Navidad]

21 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

I believe that the reasons Iisted are accurate. 

I put you in category number 1. You find what Joseph Smith taught about many of the spiritual manifestations in Christian sects being the result of false spirits to be offensive to the Holy Ghost and even blasphemy, because you have a different perspective. And that’s fine. I get that. 

The people who just want to argue and take cheap shots is a whole different matter. 

Ok. You make a good point. I may have missed it. Could you please point out where Joseph Smith taught that the manifestations of the Spirit in the pre-LDS or in the ex-LDS (outside) of the LDS church are due to false spirits, which I assume are demons? I would enjoy reading that. I have not heard that before. Thanks

[teddyaware]

6 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I whas talking about the Terrestrial Kingdom. Pay attention. Teddy.

Telestial had nothing to do with heaven i though. That whas the Celestial Kingdom

Well...thanks for your understanding. Teddy.

This really make's no sense at all. You must be talking about purgatory right now. 

The telestial kingdom is still a kingdom. You still injoy some....kind relieve. 

What you are now describing is just Purgatory excuse e moi. 

Well. Thank you very much. I will discuss this matter with my missionaris anyway. Teddy. 

1) It was your use of the abbreviation TK that caused my confusion. Your TK abbreviation is especially confusing because you said, “but the TK is actually just the same place as earth. You see, it appears you don’t realize that in LDS parlance this present fallen earth, to which you were obviously referring, is often referred to as a telestial world or a telestial kingdom, hence my confusion. So maybe now you can now understand why I was thrown? Perhaps in your inexperience you perceived you were being clear and concise in your language when you were actually being unclear and ambiguous

2) You seem to be unaware of the fact that in LDS theology the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom of glory is considered one of the many mansions of post-resurrection salvation and heavenly glory to which the Savior referred when he spoke to his disciples about the nature of heaven. 

3) I’m perplexed as to how you seem to have misinterpreted the following statement, “the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is a realm of peace and happiness that is far beyond present human comprehension”  Could you please explain why you think the bolded statement is somehow referring to a state akin to Catholic purgatory?

[Dario_M]

17 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

1) It was your use of the abbreviation TK that caused my confusion. Your TK abbreviation is especially confusing because you said, “but the TK is actually just the same place as earth. You see, it appears you don’t realize that in LDS parlance this present fallen earth, to which you were obviously referring, is often referred to as a telestial world or a telestial kingdom, hence my confusion. So maybe now you can now understand why I was thrown? Perhaps in your inexperience you perceived you were being clear and concise in your language when you were actually being unclear and ambiguous

 

I whas just clear. You messed up the terestrail and the Celestial kingdom all togheter. Or maybe i have missed something i don't know. I will discuss this matter with my missionaris anyway.

17 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

2) You seem to be unaware of the fact that in LDS theology the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom of glory is considered one of the many mansions of post-resurrection salvation and heavenly glory to which the Savior referred when he spoke to his disciples about the nature of heaven. 

My missionaries told me that the Celestian kingdom is heaven. Maybe i learn some things a bit differendly here 8n my ward then you learn in your ward location or so?

17 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

3) I’m perplexed as to how you seem to have misinterpreted the following statement, “the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is a realm of peace and happiness that is far beyond present human comprehension”  Could you please explain why you think the bolded statement is somehow referring to a state akin to Catholic purgatory?

We Mormons also use the word purgatory. I have seen it many people explaining to me here on the forum. Telestial kingdom is not the same as hell. Purgatory is !

But you know what the problem is everyone is saying something differently. Teddy. 

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Navidad said:

I like what you are saying, except perhaps for the true part. Would you not agree that experience is both subjective and personal? If that is correct, then the best I can claim is my truth-not thee truth. Then I realize and expect that my truth (experience etc.) won't be your truth and we can be at peace with each other, especially when our respective truths don't match.

Having trouble understanding you.

Are you advocating one truth existing outside of perception, or many truths based on perception?

If the latter, then calling something true means "we agree".

Most contemporary philosophers would pick the latter of these alternatives.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-deflationary/

"Deflationism about truth, what is often simply called “deflationism”, is really not so much a theory of truth in the traditional sense, as it is a different, newer sort of approach to the topic. Traditional theories of truth are part of a philosophical debate about the nature of a supposed property of truth. Philosophers offering such theories often make suggestions like the following: truth consists in correspondence to the facts; truth consists in coherence with a set of beliefs or propositions; truth is what is acceptable in the ideal limit of inquiry. According to deflationists, such suggestions are mistaken, and, moreover, they all share a common mistake. The common mistake is to assume that truth has a nature of the kind that philosophers might find out about and develop theories of."

Edited March 4, 2023 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

12 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said:

I would really like you to answer the question about what the purpose of the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands is if the Gift of the Holy Ghost, with all of it's blessings, can be obtained without this ordinance. Or alternatively please explain what it is that you believe is given when one receives the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands that can be received in no other way.

@bluebell

It has not been defined well.  THAT is the problem.

Even in my somewhat doubting state when I received the ordinance in 1979, I felt a profound manifestation of the spirit, a sense like rushing wind or water, I suppose a kind of personal Pentecost,  I could not stop the tears of joy for a minute or two, one of the great experiences of my life, I still cannot find words to answer your question. 

It's different, that's all I can say.

Edited March 4, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Tacenda]

13 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Which often leads to people leaving.

There SEEMS to be so much that makes no sense until you change your perspective and interpretation.

With new eyes about the nature of "truth" in a religious context, the confirmations are both spiritual AND logical.  It's a beautiful way to see God and the world He gave us.

There is no room for doubt.  It's all true.  Some cannot be spoken though, but simply experienced, like trying to explain color to a blind person.

The discussions here sometimes seem like arguing about if red is really green.  

Pick your words for yourself 

I think you nailed it, probably why I went down the rabbit hole after learning Joseph Smith lived polygamy. I was an avid fan of the book series of the "Work and the Glory". It never said he lived it, unless it said so in the last book or two of the series. I grew up with zero knowledge of church history, so I was a culture Mormon possibly?

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Could you please explain why you think the bolded statement is somehow referring to a state akin to Catholic purgatory?

Also @MiserereNobis @Dario_M

I think Dario has not been taught the difference, is all.

Immediately after death, we go either to Paradise or Spirit Prison.   These are both temporary states where we wait for the resurrection- but it is my belief that one may be "released" from spirit prison into heaven after repentance and knowing what we did wrong- and other factors we do not understand well I suppose. 

Spirit Prison for LDS is very similar to Catholic purgatory, which is a temporary state as well, for Catholics you "serve your time" in purgatory pending eventually going to heaven, but this is MY understanding, it would be nice to have a real Catholic tell us more about purgatory.

But for LDS, the term "HELL" is used also for what we call "spirit prison" which is not at ALL what Catholics- I think- believe about hell.   Esstentially LDS have eliminated ALL notions of an eternal place of eternal burnings, seeing that more as a fable drawn from Dante's Inferno, than an actual place.

For most non-LDS Christians, hell though, is an eternal sentence to hellfire, pain and suffering.  LDS do not believe such a place exists- it is not the same as "Outer Darkness".  

When LDS use the term "hell", actually meaning "spirit prison" it is confusing two different beliefs.

Outer Darkness for LDS is actually an eternal place far, far removed from God, and those there "qualify" by DENYING the HOLY GHOST, which is the "unpardonable sin".  It is said that one has to have a personal undoubtable experience with Christ- a "theophany" if you will, as Joseph is said to have had, and then DENY that Jesus is the Christ knowing full well PEFECTLY that Jesus IS the Christ.   

So how many people have FIRST had a theophany and KNOW that Jesus is the Christ and THEN DENY that knowinginly?   It is said that such people would knowingly crucify Christ all over again while yet knowing for sure that he WAS indeed the Son of God!   I cannot imagine that- Outer Darkness might consist of perhaps 10 people in my opinion-the first is Lucifer himself, possibly Cain and the rest of the most evil humans who ever lived.   Outer Darkness is not "hell".

Then we have the KINGDOMS OF GLORY AFTER the resurrection.  Heaven and hell will pass away, and we will go to whatever kingdom of glory OR Outer Darkness- that is the great fork in the road!  But the first fork!  After the fork that goes to Glory or Outer Darkness we have the roads to the KINGDOMS- Telestial Terrest

Now we have the Telestial kingdom, which it is said is a spiritual kingdom of GLORY, which one erroneously might commit suicide to achieve, understanding that it is so much better than earth life.   Yet is the lowest kingdom of Glory.

Then there exist, it is said, both the Terrestrial kingdom and Celestial Kingdoms.   Only those who achive the highest rung of the Celestial Kingdom will be eligible for exaltation.

So I hope that clarifies things, though it is probably as clear as mud.

Bottom line:  LDS have no "hellfire burning" place, just outer darkness, which eternal total separation from God.

Paradise and Spirit Prison are temporary states awaiting resurrection, then after resurrection we have the three kingdoms, then hopefully on to exaltation.

Edited March 4, 2023 by mfbukowski