Navidad Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 5 hours ago, Calm said: It depends on the context. If it is Christianity and Jesus Christ, of course you are a believer as I am and as all the Catholics and other Christians on the board. But you do not accept The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be what it claims to be, so would you say you believe in it as truth and the way you should be following? If someone is talking about Catholicism, I am an unbeliever even if I share some beliefs because I do not accept what it claims for itself as a whole even if I have much respect and love for the faith. I am an unbeliever in the Mennonite faith as well for the same reason. Why be offended? I am not offended. It mystified me. I think it is a pre-programmed use of language from years of lessons about those who are not LDS. For this Christian, being a believer is being a believer in Christ, the atonement, and salvation/sanctification/exaltation (choose your word). . . . His grace, mercy, and love. It has nothing to do with any church . . . not being LDS, or a Catholic . . . or a Mennonite. I don't believe in any one church as the channel through which the grace of Christ flows. I believe in the saving grace of Christ that works both in and out of any specific denominational affiliation. In fact most of my active ministry has been spent in non-denominational groups - both missions and churches. The truth of the saving grace of Christ is taught in virtually every Christian church on earth. Sure there are some appendage differences. However, as I have aged, especially lately I believe the differences are becoming fewer. I believe we are becoming more one in the Spirit. I do think that is wonderful, and in and of itself a ministry of the Spirit. We are all believers in Christ and His atonement. We may practice that faith in differing ways, but we need to get past that and focus on the ministry of the gospel to those who need it. Sorry for preaching. I just wanted to emphasize that I am not offended. It has been at least two years since I have been offended on this board 😃!
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 5, 2023 Author Posted March 5, 2023 24 minutes ago, Navidad said: I am not sure about that. I will leave that up to my LDS friends to discuss. What I can tell you is this . . . In 1973 when I was ordained to the gospel ministry a group of Godly Christians laid their hands on me. Then when I was licensed to the gospel ministry in 1993 in another group, yet another group of Godly Christians laid their hands on me. Both times it was a very moving and touching experience. I felt their love and genuineness both times. They were powerful experiences. I can close my eyes now in 2023 and still feel it. It wasn't authority or power it was love, concern, and sort of dedicating me to the ministry of Christ through the Holy Spirit. No other group, regardless of their beliefs about me can take that away from me. It was clearly (to me at least) from Christ via the Holy Spirit through those elders. I was ordained to the work of ministry, counseling, teaching, and preaching because that is what they believed to be my gifts. I hope for now those fifty years I have proven faithful to their trust and confidence in me. Thank you for sharing your non-LDS perspective, but I’m referring to LDS members who have had hand laid on them for the gift of the Holy Ghost following baptism. We believe that only our church has this authority, so it’s a problem that no one who has received this ordinance can explain what exactly is received that cannot be received any other way.
Smiley McGee Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Calm said: If someone says you can’t appreciate the beauty of the Canyon the way they do, but they cannot do the same for your experience, do you find that inappropriate? What would drawing this distinction achieve? Much better in my opinion to preserve the silence and allow the other party to simply enjoy the view.
Navidad Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: I’m glad you enjoyed the editorial and were able to getting a better understanding of what Joseph Smith taught. I’m not at all surprised that you reject what he taught in this editorial. And that’s fine. I don’t expect to convince you, but I believe what Joseph Smith taught in his editorial. And with all due respect, you have no idea what places I have or haven’t put myself in to see the "power" members of other churches have. I know plenty of good and honorable people of faith in other Christian denominations. I have attended other churches, prayed and studied the scriptures with members of other churches, and have done ministering and service with members of other churches. I’m not nearly as ignorant as you seem to suppose. So, in all of those people you know, all that attendance, prayer, study, ministering and service, you have never met anyone who was filled with the Holy Spirit? You have prayed with Christians of other communities and never felt them the Spirit through them? 5 hours ago, Calm said: I agree if that is how it is presented it is condescending at the very least and has no grasp of possible depth and range of the other’s experience. If on the other hand, they are simply saying you can’t appreciate it in the same way because you aren’t looking for the same landmarks, the same signifiers of beauty that they are looking for because of what they have been taught and experienced as meaningful on their journey there just as they will not experience it as you because you see it through a different filter due to your own experiences, do you take issue with that? I wouldn't take any issue with that, in fact I would probably agree. But that is not what many conservative or Fundamentalist members of some churches would say. That is not how they would put it. They would deny the very existence of the Grand Canyon in the life of the other. That is why I have such a bee in my bonnet about Fundamentalists of any group. There is a huge difference between what you wrote and someone saying because you are not me and/or a member of my group, God won't fill you with His Holy Spirit until you become just like me and join my group. Or, in in the same way someone standing on a corner near Temple Square with a sign saying, "You are not really a Christian until you believe just like me!" Edited March 5, 2023 by Navidad 1
Navidad Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Smiley McGee said: Much better in my opinion to preserve the silence and allow the other party to simply enjoy the view. I like that. My problem is I have always had a problem preserving the silence! I talk too much.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 5, 2023 Author Posted March 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, Navidad said: So, in all of those people you know, all that attendance, prayer, study, ministering and service, you have never met anyone who was filled with the Holy Spirit? You have prayed with Christians of other communities and never felt them the Spirit through them? No, I can’t say that I have ever met someone not of my faith who was "filled with the Holy Spirit." I have met and know individuals who have a very bright spirit about them and whose countenance shows that they are good, honest, sincere individuals trying to follow Christ the best they know how. I have also felt the Holy Ghost while discussing the gospel and praying with them, etc.
manol Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Smiley McGee said: I find it’s like standing at the edge of the Grand Canyon, taking in its surreal majesty, and the person next to me turns to me and tells me there’s no way I could appreciate what’s before me because I didn’t follow the same google map directions to get there as they did. Well said. In my opinion - The Holy Spirit is like a radio station we identify by listening with our hearts instead of with our ears. And when we lose the station, it means we have shifted our tuning to a wrong frequency. The Holy Spirit is like a lantern gently illuminating enough of the path that our next step is within our field of view, but leaving the choice up to us. The Holy Spirit is like the wind, we can feel which way it's blowing at our location, but we don't know what it is doing elsewhere. The Holy Spirit is a teacher who can turn just about anything into a lesson, if we are willing. The Holy Spirit is our natural companion, and being in the presence of the Holy Spirit is our natural state. In the event of a discrepancy, God the Holy Spirit out-ranks all scriptures and all prophets. Edited March 5, 2023 by manol 1
mfbukowski Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 Sigh. "To me, it a mass of confusion." If you know that quote, you are old. I love this paradigm/ church.
Calm Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Smiley McGee said: What would drawing this distinction achieve? Much better in my opinion to preserve the silence and allow the other party to simply enjoy the view. Some of us like to share our experiences though. To experience both silence and communion in their own time. I would want to share mine in hopes it would encourage the other to share theirs so I could perhaps see the view through their eyes as well as my own. Edited March 5, 2023 by Calm 2
Tacenda Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 11 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: Thank you for sharing your non-LDS perspective, but I’m referring to LDS members who have had hand laid on them for the gift of the Holy Ghost following baptism. We believe that only our church has this authority, so it’s a problem that no one who has received this ordinance can explain what exactly is received that cannot be received any other way. I get you Grug, and the frustration you feel on this topic. Why are others not accepting that the church teaches of this authority of being the only ones with the gift of the Holy Ghost, in the following lesson in church this is taught. In this lesson it is taught that those outside of the church get the Holy Ghost but it isn't long lasting. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-21-the-gift-of-the-holy-ghost?lang=eng "The gift of the Holy Ghost is the privilege—given to people who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ, been baptized, and been confirmed as members of the Church—to receive continual guidance and inspiration from the Holy Ghost. A person may be temporarily guided by the Holy Ghost without receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost (see D&C 130:23). However, this guidance will not be continuous unless the person is baptized and receives the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. We read in Acts 10 that the Roman soldier Cornelius received inspiration from the Holy Ghost so that he knew the gospel of Jesus Christ was true. But Cornelius did not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that if Cornelius had not received baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost would have left him (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, 97)."
Navidad Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: No, I can’t say that I have ever met someone not of my faith who was "filled with the Holy Spirit." I have met and know individuals who have a very bright spirit about them and whose countenance shows that they are good, honest, sincere individuals trying to follow Christ the best they know how. I have also felt the Holy Ghost while discussing the gospel and praying with them, etc. Interesting. How would you know if someone you met, not of your faith was "filled with the Holy Spirit" or was not "filled with the Holy Spirit?" Given your strong belief in your church's position on this, would you ever be able to acknowledge a non-LDS church member as "filled with the Holy Spirit?" I am not trying to argue, but to understand. The reason I am so interested is I came from a church tradition that claimed that members of the LDS church were not truly Christians because of certain doctrinal positions. In 1989 when I started fellowshipping with and getting to know members of the LDS church I began a transformation in my thinking about that. Now at this point some 34 years later I actively advocate when I am with or speaking to non-LDS Christians, including those of my own "group" that they recognize that LDS folks as individuals may be Christians just as individuals from any other Christian church may be Christians. I don't believe that any member of any church is automatically a Christian by virtue of membership in any given institution because Christ only died for and saves humans as one individual at a time. Having mentioned that . . . do you think every LDS church member by virtue of baptism, laying on of hands, and confirmation is filled with the Holy Spirit at that point? Might the Holy Spirit decline to indwell someone so baptized and confirmed? Then are they sealed in the Spirit eternally, or might they lose that filling based on perhaps not living a Christ-like life, or by leaving the LDS church, say to become a Catholic, Baptist, Mennonite, or even a member of a Mormon Fundamentalist group? How might you know if a fellow member never had, or had lost the indwelling nature of the Holy Spirit? One last thing, if my bishop and stake president in the ward I attend, confirmed to you that in their belief my wife, for example was filled with the Holy Spirit, would you accept that as valid, or reject it as impossible? Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I promise you they are sincere in a desire to better understanding your position on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of both the LDS Christian and the non-LDS Christian. Edited March 5, 2023 by Navidad
Navidad Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 11 hours ago, manol said: Well said. In my opinion - The Holy Spirit is like a radio station we identify by listening with our hearts instead of with our ears. And when we lose the station, it means we have shifted our tuning to a wrong frequency. The Holy Spirit is like a lantern gently illuminating enough of the path that our next step is within our field of view, but leaving the choice up to us. The Holy Spirit is like the wind, we can feel which way it's blowing at our location, but we don't know what it is doing elsewhere. The Holy Spirit is a teacher who can turn just about anything into a lesson, if we are willing. The Holy Spirit is our natural companion, and being in the presence of the Holy Spirit is our natural state. In the event of a discrepancy, God the Holy Spirit out-ranks all scriptures and all prophets. Wow! Well said! That is a piece of literature! Now you have certainly given me a lot to think about. I never thought about the "presence of the Holy Spirit as our natural state." Would you mind one question? Who is the "we" you use throughout each line and the "our" in your second-to-last line? Humans? Christians? LDS-Christians? or ??????? Thanks for your skill with words and the keyboard!
Navidad Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 10 hours ago, Calm said: Some of us like to share our experiences though. To experience both silence and communion in their own time. I would want to share mine in hopes it would encourage the other to share theirs so I could perhaps see the view through their eyes as well as my own. Wow! That is well said too. I really like that!
Navidad Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: But Cornelius did not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. Does that mean he received the gift of the Holy Ghost "because" he was baptized? Is it a point in time gift? I understand that my LDS friends see salvation as a process over time. In contrast, is the receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit a point-in-time experience? Is it part of the salvation process? Can one experience salvation without ever receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit? Does every eight year old child who is baptized and confirmed receive the gift of the Holy Spirit at that time, or is it conditional on something else? Might a child be baptized and confirmed at eight and not be ready to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit until 15? Does the Holy Spirit have volition to not indwell the newly baptized and confirmed LDS church member? What if those laying hands on the person are not themselves living a Spirit-filled life? Are they just the vessel, so their own spiritual condition is irrelevant to them being used by the Spirit? I don't think I understand how the human element works in the receiving of the gift beyond the one granting it must hold the specific and one-of-a-kind LDS priesthood. I read the article you posted very carefully. It is written in such a general way it leaves more questions unanswered than answered (in my mind). If I, Navidad were baptized and confirmed in a LDS ward next Sunday, would I automatically and unconditionally receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? If not, why not? If so, what would change in my spiritual life from that day forward? What would I gain that I don't have now? Wow! That is about 14 questions in one post. Sorry. That might break my record! I think if the LDS Church is going to stake (pun not necessarily intended) out such a radical position as an absolute declaration that no non-LDS Christian can or will ever be filled with the indwelling nature of the Holy Spirit, there ought to be answers for all of these questions and more.
Tacenda Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 9 minutes ago, Navidad said: Does that mean he received the gift of the Holy Ghost "because" he was baptized? Is it a point in time gift? I understand that my LDS friends see salvation as a process over time. In contrast, is the receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit a point-in-time experience? Is it part of the salvation process? Can one experience salvation without ever receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit? Does every eight year old child who is baptized and confirmed receive the gift of the Holy Spirit at that time, or is it conditional on something else? Might a child be baptized and confirmed at eight and not be ready to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit until 15? Does the Holy Spirit have volition to not indwell the newly baptized and confirmed LDS church member? What if those laying hands on the person are not themselves living a Spirit-filled life? Are they just the vessel, so their own spiritual condition is irrelevant to them being used by the Spirit? I don't think I understand how the human element works in the receiving of the gift beyond the one granting it must hold the specific and one-of-a-kind LDS priesthood. I read the article you posted very carefully. It is written in such a general way it leaves more questions unanswered than answered (in my mind). If I, Navidad were baptized and confirmed in a LDS ward next Sunday, would I automatically and unconditionally receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? If not, why not? If so, what would change in my spiritual life from that day forward? What would I gain that I don't have now? Wow! That is about 14 questions in one post. Sorry. That might break my record! I think if the LDS Church is going to stake (pun not necessarily intended) out such a radical position as an absolute declaration that no non-LDS Christian can or will ever be filled with the indwelling nature of the Holy Spirit, there ought to be answers for all of these questions and more. Your guess is as good as mine, I was just showing where Grug is not wrong in feeling possibly gaslighted.
MustardSeed Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 This thread brings up so many great questions- Another question I would pose - since we are taught in primary that we lose the spirit when we are in unholy places- how do we get it back? Also I just spoke with a very old friend who found Jesus 10 years ago and he spend most of our phone call sharing with me the updates of his life and giving all of the credit to God for the good things that are happening in his life. Much of these things happened because of inspiration and guidance and direction, from his point of view. I decided not to tell him that he didn’t actually have the gift of The Holy Ghost. Perhaps if he was LDS his life would be better than it is now. He certainly would have a better shot at the afterlife, but I held back. He seemed to be very enthusiastic about how God had led him to the goodness that he experiences on the daily. I have to admit his experienced some pretty cool stuff. Anyway, neither here nor there but the convo made me think of this thread. (Now that I think about it, that last sentence makes me reflect somewhat and want to change.) 2
MustardSeed Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Your guess is as good as mine, I was just showing where Grug is not wrong in feeling possibly gaslighted. I’ve said before it’s not the content it’s the attitude and delivery. 3
Smiley McGee Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 10 hours ago, Calm said: Some of us like to share our experiences though. To experience both silence and communion in their own time. I would want to share mine in hopes it would encourage the other to share theirs so I could perhaps see the view through their eyes as well as my own. You suggested this isn’t possible: 13 hours ago, Smiley McGee said: If someone says you can’t appreciate the beauty of the Canyon the way they do, but they cannot do the same for your experience, do you find that inappropriate? I agree with you there is no way for me to experience things as you do, and saying so wouldn’t add any value, so why not just keep quiet. One cannot share their oil with others; they can suggest how to obtain it (a critical but separate matter, irrelevant since were both at the canyon). Really, most of my ward doesn’t even think I’ve made it to canyon in the first place. They’re not looking next to them; they’ve assumed I’m off trail somewhere back towards Flagstaff .
Navidad Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I’ve said before it’s not the content it’s the attitude and delivery. I agree with you, but I sure want to know more about the content, too! Massive, huge, ginormous, bold claims that deny 98.5% (or some number?) of all Christians on earth something as precious, vital, important, fantastic, and meaningful as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and His accompanying Gifts is a pretty big deal, is it not?! That kind of a sweeping claim deserves a lot of scrutiny and engenders a ton of questions (at least for me). When we get right down to it . . . much has been made about denial of spiritual blessings to certain folks in the past and the positive nature of changes in that regard. Here is an issue where 98.5% (or some number) of fellow Christians as a class (nonmembers) are denied one of the most important blessings of the Christian life and it seems to simply go on unscrutinized (is that a word?). I would personally thank Grug for bringing this up for his own reasons. These kinds of claims are hugely (not a word) important dividing mechanisms between classes (members and non-members). I am much more astonished than offended. On the one hand I think it such an outrageous claim that it deserves no scrutiny at all. On the other hand, it is such an important claim that it deserves all the scrutiny that can be brought to it. OK, I am gonna go make some chicken soup - maybe it will be good for my soul! Ha! Edited March 5, 2023 by Navidad
Calm Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said: You suggested this isn’t possible: But one can try to get as close as possible and that is imo a worthy effort because it can expand our understanding of ourselves and others even if that understanding will never be perfect or complete in this lifetime. 1
Tacenda Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 16 minutes ago, Navidad said: I agree with you, but I sure want to know more about the content, too! Massive, huge, ginormous, bold claims that deny 98.5% (or some number?) of all Christians on earth something as precious, vital, important, fantastic, and meaningful as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and His accompanying Gifts is a pretty big deal, is it not?! That kind of a sweeping claim deserves a lot of scrutiny and engenders a ton of questions (at least for me). When we get right down to it . . . much has been made about denial of spiritual blessings to certain folks in the past and the positive nature of changes in that regard. Here is an issue where 98.5% (or some number) of fellow Christians as a class (nonmembers) are denied one of the most important blessings of the Christian life and it seems to simply go on unscrutinized (is that a word?). I would personally thank Grug for bringing this up for his own reasons. These kinds of claims are hugely (not a word) important dividing mechanisms between classes (members and non-members). I am much more astonished than offended. On the one hand I think it such an outrageous claim that it deserves no scrutiny at all. On the other hand, it is such an important claim that it deserves all the scrutiny that can be brought to it. OK, I am gonna go make some chicken soup - maybe it will be good for my soul! Ha! "Chicken Soup for the Soul" books are the best, I'm sure you've read those. I no longer believe that the COJCOLDS members are the only ones with the gift. And like mfbukowski mentions sometimes, the kingdom is within us. And like MustardSeed's friend she spoke with, nonmember, they had the exuberance of joy with the spirit, it's not really shown that much in my experience with members of the church as it is with non LDS Christians, but the more Jesus is emphasized maybe people are seeing it now. So we members, I'm inactive at the moment, need to step up I guess. But in my LDS life, it use to feel strange when someone was so joyful because of the spirit. I think I lack doing all that manol mentioned too in his beautiful writings, but going to try more. I love getting my church on this board! I'm learning a thing or two! I hope that chicken soup did you good! I picture you going out into the sunlight with red cliffs or red sand surrounding you with greenery as well, and enjoying a break from the board. But don't stay away long, your input is awesome. Something I'd never get by going to my LDS ward each week.
manol Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Navidad said: Wow! Well said! That is a piece of literature! Thank you. 3 hours ago, Navidad said: Now you have certainly given me a lot to think about. I never thought about the "presence of the Holy Spirit as our natural state." I think that when we are not experiencing the presence of the Holy Spirit, usually we are the ones who have put up barriers or blockages of some sort, the exception being conditions which make it effectively impossible to "tune in" to the still, small voice. 3 hours ago, Navidad said: Who is the "we" you use throughout each line and the "our" in your second-to-last line? Humans? Christians? LDS-Christians? or ??????? "We" and "our" = "humans"; at least that's what I had in mind. Imo, if nothing else, the LDS ordinance bestowing the Gift of the Holy Ghost has real-world value in that it EMPHASIZES and VALIDATES paying attention to and heeding the still, small voice. Whether the ordinance itself enhances a person's access to the Holy Spirit, and to what extent, I cannot speak to beyond my own experience, viewed through my own lens. Edited March 5, 2023 by manol 1
Smiley McGee Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 15 hours ago, Navidad said: They would deny the very existence of the Grand Canyon in the life of the other. A foolish position indeed that simultaneously limits God and enlarges the ego.
mfbukowski Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) Quote 7.4. After a person is baptized, one or more Melchizedek Priesthood holders confirm him or her a member of the Church and bestow upon him or her the gift of the Holy Ghost (see 3 Nephi 27:20). The gift of the Holy Ghost is different from the influence of the Holy Ghost. Before baptism, a person can feel the influence of the Holy Ghost and receive a testimony of the truth. After receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, a person who keeps his or her covenants has the right to the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrinal-mastery-core-document-2018/doctrinal-topics/7-ordinances-and-covenants?lang=eng Edited March 5, 2023 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted March 5, 2023 Posted March 5, 2023 5 hours ago, Navidad said: Does that mean he received the gift of the Holy Ghost "because" he was baptized? Is it a point in time gift? I understand that my LDS friends see salvation as a process over time. In contrast, is the receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit a point-in-time experience? Is it part of the salvation process? Can one experience salvation without ever receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit? Does every eight year old child who is baptized and confirmed receive the gift of the Holy Spirit at that time, or is it conditional on something else? Might a child be baptized and confirmed at eight and not be ready to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit until 15? Does the Holy Spirit have volition to not indwell the newly baptized and confirmed LDS church member? What if those laying hands on the person are not themselves living a Spirit-filled life? Are they just the vessel, so their own spiritual condition is irrelevant to them being used by the Spirit? I don't think I understand how the human element works in the receiving of the gift beyond the one granting it must hold the specific and one-of-a-kind LDS priesthood. I read the article you posted very carefully. It is written in such a general way it leaves more questions unanswered than answered (in my mind). If I, Navidad were baptized and confirmed in a LDS ward next Sunday, would I automatically and unconditionally receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? If not, why not? If so, what would change in my spiritual life from that day forward? What would I gain that I don't have now? Wow! That is about 14 questions in one post. Sorry. That might break my record! I think if the LDS Church is going to stake (pun not necessarily intended) out such a radical position as an absolute declaration that no non-LDS Christian can or will ever be filled with the indwelling nature of the Holy Spirit, there ought to be answers for all of these questions and more. An odd notion, I know, to actually see what the church teaches instead of the yahoos on this board, including and especially me- But let's break the rules and actually see what the church says! https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-21-the-gift-of-the-holy-ghost?lang=eng Quote The Gift of the Holy Ghost What is the difference between the Holy Ghost and the gift of the Holy Ghost? The gift of the Holy Ghost is the privilege—given to people who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ, been baptized, and been confirmed as members of the Church—to receive continual guidance and inspiration from the Holy Ghost. Joseph Smith said we believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost being enjoyed now as much as it was enjoyed in the days of the first Apostles. We believe in this gift in all its fulness, power, greatness, and glory. (See Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 97–98.) A person may be temporarily guided by the Holy Ghost without receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost (see D&C 130:23). However, this guidance will not be continuous unless the person is baptized and receives the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. We read in Acts 10 that the Roman soldier Cornelius received inspiration from the Holy Ghost so that he knew the gospel of Jesus Christ was true. But Cornelius did not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that if Cornelius had not received baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost would have left him (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, 97). Today people who are not members of the Church learn by the power of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true (see Moroni 10:4–5). But that initial testimony leaves them if they do not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. They do not receive the continuing assurance that can come to those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost. Receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost What must we do to receive the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost? After people are baptized, they are confirmed members of the Church and given the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. The Lord said, “Whoso having faith you shall confirm in my church, by the laying on of the hands, and I will bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost upon them” (D&C 33:15). Every worthy elder of the Church, when authorized, may give the gift of the Holy Ghost to another person. However, there is no guarantee that the person will receive inspiration and guidance from the Holy Ghost just because the elders have laid their hands on his or her head. Each person must “receive the Holy Ghost.” This means that the Holy Ghost will come to us only when we are faithful and desire help from this heavenly messenger. To be worthy to have the help of the Holy Ghost, we must seek earnestly to obey the commandments of God. We must keep our thoughts and actions pure. Recognizing the Influence of the Holy Ghost The Holy Ghost usually communicates with us quietly. His influence is often referred to as a “still small voice” (see 1 Kings 19:9–12; Helaman 5:30; D&C 85:6). President Boyd K. Packer explained: “The Holy Ghost speaks with a voice that you feel more than you hear. … While we speak of ‘listening’ to the whisperings of the Spirit, most often one describes a spiritual prompting by saying, ‘I had a feeling …’” He continued: “This voice of the Spirit speaks gently, prompting you what to do or what to say, or it may caution or warn you” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1994, 77; or Ensign, Nov. 1994, 60). One of God’s Greatest Gifts What blessings can we receive through the gift of the Holy Ghost? The gift of the Holy Ghost is one of God’s greatest gifts to us. Through the Holy Ghost we may know that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, and that His Church has been restored to the earth. We may have the promptings of the Holy Ghost to show us all the things we should do (see 2 Nephi 32:5). The Holy Ghost sanctifies us to prepare us for God’s presence. We may enjoy the gifts of the Spirit (see chapter 22 in this book). This great gift from our Heavenly Father can also bring peace to our hearts and an understanding of the things of God (see 1 Corinthians 2:9–12). Why is the gift of the Holy Ghost one of God’s greatest gifts to us? Additional Scriptures 1 Corinthians 3:16–17; D&C 130:22–23 (the Holy Ghost dwells with the faithful) Acts 19:1–7 (gift of the Holy Ghost bestowed anciently) Moroni 8:25–26 (how to receive the Holy Ghost) Moroni 10:5 (the Holy Ghost is a witness to truth) Mosiah 5:2 (the Holy Ghost changes hearts) Alma 5:54 (the Holy Ghost sanctifies) 2
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now