Temple recommend question

[bsjkki]

To attend the temple, do you have to attend both hours of church? 

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

To attend the temple, do you have to attend both hours of church? 

I think the question asks if you attend your church meetings.  The plural of meetings does seem to imply that it's not only asking about sacrament meeting.  But I know of some who can't attend the second hour (usually because of work stuff) and they still have a temple recommend.

[MustardSeed]

But what if we skip out when the RS teacher says they are going to be putting us “in groups”? 😅can I just go home and still go to my nieces wedding? Asking for a friend.  
 

Seriously though if I never attended 2nd hour I would likely feel better about being clear on that in my interview.  That said I have traveled a lot in the last year and a half and I’ve missed a lot of church and I still feel very qualified to attend the temple. I think it’s a personal thing. And if my bishop told me I couldn’t have a temple recommend because I have been out of town and missing church then I would say “OK“ and would probably work towards getting reinstated.

[bsjkki]

It is a bit of cognitive dissonance to try and figure out a minimum requirement to attend the temple. 😏
 

I do feel this is a change with the new temple questions. In the past, men were required to attend Priesthood but the question changed. Now with the new questions, it seems Sunday School and RS are now required also. 
 

 

[webbles]

I think https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/01/aus-eng-local-pages/local-news-002?lang=eng has the latest questions.  It says:

Quote

Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/10/07/what-new-lds-temple/ says that the older version was:

Quote

Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

Does the "meetings" include things like ward council?  What about ward/stake/general conference?  Or is it just talking about meetings in the 2-hour block?

Any ideas on how to find older versions of the questions?

[CV75]

2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

To attend the temple, do you have to attend both hours of church? 

"Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?" Closing Remarks (churchofjesuschrist.org)

Paraphrase: "...[do] you attend your meetings?" I would say "your meetings" are those in the "2-hour block" and any calling-specific meetings and we answer this question according to the light we have. If necessary, we can always discuss our answer, how we arrive at it or whether to amend it with the priesthood leader.

ETA: @webbles

Edited January 29, 2023 by CV75

[bsjkki]

https://wheatandtares.org/2019/05/22/temple-recommend-evolution/

Edited January 29, 2023 by bsjkki

[CV75]

32 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

https://wheatandtares.org/2019/05/22/temple-recommend-evolution/

This same site -- and I did not link to it because there were no references to back up their points -- represents how the questions changed from Jospeh Smith onward; many of the questions we see today originated in the 1940s. 

[Rain]

57 minutes ago, CV75 said:

"Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?" Closing Remarks (churchofjesuschrist.org)

Paraphrase: "...[do] you attend your meetings?" I would say "your meetings" are those in the "2-hour block" and any calling-specific meetings and we answer this question according to the light we have. If necessary, we can always discuss our answer, how we arrive at it or whether to amend it with the priesthood leader.

ETA: @webbles

Strive is a weird word for me there with keeping the sabbath holy.  

Edited January 29, 2023 by Rain

[webbles]

41 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

https://wheatandtares.org/2019/05/22/temple-recommend-evolution/

From the sources for that site, I tracked down the 1976 version of the "meetings" question:

Quote

Will you earnestly strive to do your duty in the Church; to attend your sacrament, priesthood, and other meetings; and to obey the rules, laws, and commandments of the gospel?

The sources also mention changes in 1996 but it never gives a reference.

Emphasizing "priesthood" in that question makes sense for 1976.  That is before the 3-hour block was instituted so priesthood meeting was a completely separate meeting.  At what point did "priesthood" get removed from the question?  The 2019 "old" version doesn't have it so it must have been removed sometime between 1976 and 2019.

[bsjkki]

19 minutes ago, webbles said:

From the sources for that site, I tracked down the 1976 version of the "meetings" question:

The sources also mention changes in 1996 but it never gives a reference.

Emphasizing "priesthood" in that question makes sense for 1976.  That is before the 3-hour block was instituted so priesthood meeting was a completely separate meeting.  At what point did "priesthood" get removed from the question?  The 2019 "old" version doesn't have it so it must have been removed sometime between 1976 and 2019.

I think in 2013. I’ve been trying to find it.

[CV75]

39 minutes ago, Rain said:

Strive is a weird word for me there with keeping the sabbath holy.  

What word would be less weird for you, and why? I see it as meaning "endeavor/aspire" in good faith, and these might serve as substitutes.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

What word would be less weird for you, and why? I see it as meaning "endeavor/aspire" in good faith, and these might serve as substitutes.

"Try".  Strive just goes against the idea of a day of rest for me. Not that we should just lay in bed all day, lazily watching TV, but if we are striving to keep the Sabbath holy then it seems we are missing the point of why we are doing it.  

[CV75]

@RainI guess I'm a laid-back sttiver 🙂

Edited January 29, 2023 by CV75

[Scott Lloyd]

7 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

But what if we skip out when the RS teacher says they are going to be putting us “in groups”? 😅can I just go home and still go to my nieces wedding? Asking for a friend.  

I too hate the practice of dividing the class into groups. For some reason though, professional pedagogues (often including those who are appointed to general Church curriculum committees) seem to love it. 

I’m not reticent, if I have a comment to make, about voluntarily expressing it in class. I don’t respond well, though, to being pressured to take part in ad hoc small-group discussions when I don’t feel so inclined. And yes, I have on past occasions quietly slipped out of class rather than abide it. 

[mfbukowski]

21 hours ago, bsjkki said:

It is a bit of cognitive dissonance to try and figure out a minimum requirement to attend the temple. 😏

 

 

Love that! Exactly!

[JAHS]

22 hours ago, bsjkki said:

To attend the temple, do you have to attend both hours of church? 

The recommend questions imply that one should attend all their meetings. It depends on the Bishop but if you at least attend sacrament meeting regularly and only occasionally miss a Sunday school/Priesthood you can probably still get the recommend. I know people who are confined to their beds at home or have to work on Sundays who are still able to get their recommends renewed. Bishops will make every accommodation they can to help a member get the recommend. 

[Thinking]

On 1/29/2023 at 10:32 AM, bsjkki said:

To attend the temple, do you have to attend both hours of church? 

You have to attend 3 hours. There's a hidden 3rd hour.

[bluebell]

17 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I too hate the practice of dividing the class into groups. For some reason though, professional pedagogues (often including those who are appointed to general Church curriculum committees) seem to love it. 

I’m not reticent, if I have a comment to make, about voluntarily expressing it in class. I don’t respond well, though, to being pressured to take part in ad hoc small-group discussions when I don’t feel so inclined. And yes, I have on past occasions quietly slipped out of class rather than abide it. 

Agreed. Groups as a part of the lesson are the worst. 

[JAHS]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Agreed. Groups as a part of the lesson are the worst. 

The only thing worse is being the spokesperson for the group.

[MustardSeed]

Just now, JAHS said:

The only thing worse is being the spokesperson for the group.

The whole thing just screams “time filler”.  Might as well hand out a word search.  

[bluebell]

32 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

The whole thing just screams “time filler”.  Might as well hand out a word search.  

Yes!

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Agreed. Groups as a part of the lesson are the worst. 

 

3 hours ago, JAHS said:

The only thing worse is being the spokesperson for the group.

 

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

The whole thing just screams “time filler”.  Might as well hand out a word search.  

I sense a groundswell here. Maybe it will develop into a movement and teachers will get the message they should stop doing it. 

[bsjkki]

Sometimes, I really enjoy the side topics in threads. This is one of those times. 

[Rain]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

Agreed. Groups as a part of the lesson are the worst. 

Groups aren't a problem. It's what teacher's almost always do with groups (discuss this scripture/story/example and then tell the class what you think) that is the problem.