President Nelson and Skull and Bones

[Anijen]

I know it has been a very long time since I've posted or even checked this site out. A cousin of mine copied and pasted a recent post about President Nelson being a member of the Skull and Bones Fraternity. It has supposedly been verified in Presidents Nelsons' autobiography (From Heart to Heart).

I want to know:

1. Has Skull and Bones changed over time and perhaps used to be a legitimate fraternity and has changed to the "evil" thing it is suppose to be these days?

2. Was President Nelson just nominated or actual member or someone maliciously forged a paragraph in that book to make him look bad?

3. Your ideas, thoughts, two cents will be appreciated.

 

it is good to be back (except for Nehor... just kidding).

Thanks

Anijen

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Anijen

[The Nehor]

It is bad to be back!

1. No idea. I don’t know if it ever turned evil. There is a lot of conspiracy nonsense about it but is any of it true? Probably not.

2. It would be impressive for President Nelson to be involved in Skull and Bones since he didn’t go to Yale.

3. People lie on the internet. Screwed up but true.

[Mark Beesley]

I suppose if it were confirmed in his biography, it might be true. I do not own Heart to Heart. Otherwise, I suspect there is some confusion because of. . “Rensselaer Russell Nelson (May 12, 1826 – October 15, 1904) was a United States district judge of the United States District Court for the District of Minnesota.” From Wikipedia. He was Skull and Bones.

[Anijen]

4 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

I suppose if it were confirmed in his biography, it might be true. I do not own Heart to Heart. Otherwise, I suspect there is some confusion because of. . “Rensselaer Russell Nelson (May 12, 1826 – October 15, 1904) was a United States district judge of the United States District Court for the District of Minnesota.” From Wikipedia. He was Skull and Bones.

It is supposedly on page 48 of President Nelson's autobiography, where he admits to being nominated his junior year at the U and his senior year nominated for owl and key (something like that)

[Anijen]

16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is bad to be back!

1. No idea. I don’t know if it ever turned evil. There is a lot of conspiracy nonsense about it but is any of it true? Probably not.

2. It would be impressive for President Nelson to be involved in Skull and Bones since he didn’t go to Yale.

3. People lie on the internet. Screwed up but true.

Love your humor (and I hope you took it that way)

If I understand correctly one does not need to be Harvard or Yale to be a member.

[Mark Beesley]

13 minutes ago, Anijen said:

It is supposedly on page 48 of President Nelson's autobiography, where he admits to being nominated his junior year at the U and his senior year nominated for owl and key (something like that)

Ok. So?

Edited to add:

As I reflect, I seem to recall something about this years ago. Obviously not an issue of concern. Heck, one day, if anyone reads my autobiography, they may discover I was once a Republican. Yikes!🤣🤣🤣😇😇😇 (Sorry Nemesis, couldn't stop.)

Edited January 11, 2023 by Mark Beesley

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Anijen said:

I know it has been a very long time since I've posted or even checked this site out. A cousin of mine copied and pasted a recent post about President Nelson being a member of the Skull and Bones Fraternity.

FAIR says he was:

Quote

Prominent members of the Skull and Bones society (living or deceased, either from the University of Utah or other universities) include George H. W. Bush, George W. Bush, John Kerry, Russell M. Nelson, Robert D. Hales, Arnold Ferrin (a famous basketball player), David McCullough (a famous author), and Daniel Gilman (founder of The Johns Hopkins University).^[4]

...

1. Rochelle McConkie, “Bonesmen celebrate 100 years,” The Daily Utah Chronicle, 3 February 2009.
2. McConkie, “Bonesmen celebrate 100 years.”
3. Casey Koldewyn, “Getting to Know Secret Student Society Skull and Bones,” The Daily Utah Chronicle, 8 December 2015.
4. McConkie, “Bonesmen celebrate 100 years”; William H. Jarrett II, “Yale, Skull and Bones, and the Beginnings of Johns Hopkins,” Baylor University Medical Center Proceedings, 24:1 (2011).

A few thoughts:

First, Pres. Nelson never went to Yale.  He went to the University of Utah.

Second, the Yale Skull & Bones was organized in 1832.  However, the above-referenced McConkie article, published in 2009, references "the Skull and Bones Society" organized at the University of Utah in 1909.  It also states that the U's iteration of Skull & Bones "is not affiliated with the Yale Skull and Bones, and though there are some similarities between the groups, all groups are completely autonomous."

Third, AFAICS, none of the footnoted references in the FAIR article includes any mention of Russell M. Nelson, though Robert D. Hales (who also attended the University of Utah) is mentioned.  And this June 10, 1953 Deseret News announcement, regarding the marriage of Robert D. Hales to Mary Elene Crandall, states that "Mr. Hales is attending the University of Utah, and is an affiliate of Pi Kappa  Alpha and Skull and Bones."

Fourth, Pres. Nelson's autobiography, From Heart to Heart, does appear to mention Skull & Bones at the U, see here:

Quote

University life was wonderful and successful. On April 3, 1944, I was elected president of the Sigma Chi fraternity. I was also later elected to the honorary societies of Skull and Bones in the junior year, Owl and Key in the senior year, the Beehive Honorary Society in the senior year, and at graduation time to the honorary scholastic societies of Phi Kappa Phi and Phi Beta Kappa. I was awarded my B.A. degree in June commencement of 1945...

Fifth, that Pres. Nelson mentions this in such an offhand and mundane way in his own autobiography suggests rather strongly that the U's version of the Skull & Bones was not very similar to the creepy version described as being at Yale.

Sixth, it looks like FAIR has conflated the U version of S&B with the Yale version.

1 hour ago, Anijen said:

It has supposedly been verified in Presidents Nelsons' autobiography (From Heart to Heart).

"It" being his membership in the U's version of Skull & Bones, yes.

1 hour ago, Anijen said:

I want to know:

1. Has Skull and Bones changed over time and perhaps used to be a legitimate fraternity and has changed to the "evil" thing it is suppose to be these days?

I think we need to first establish the attributes of the U's version of Skull & Bones.  From the McConkie article: "I was also later elected to the honorary societies of Skull and Bones in the junior year, Owl and Key in the senior year, the Beehive Honorary Society in the senior year, and at graduation time to the honorary scholastic societies of Phi Kappa Phi and Phi Beta Kappa."

That he enumerates Skull & Bones alongside utterly mundane memberships  like "the Beehive Honorary Society" suggests it was not that big a deal, or controversial.  From the McConkie article:

Quote

What began as a secret society at Yale University in 1832 is now celebrating its 100-year anniversary at the U. It is called the Skull and Bones Society. Since 1909, U “Bonesmen” have kept their organization under wraps, but in its centennial year, members hope to shed a little light on the organization…just not too much light.

“There is some power behind something that people don’t know exists,” said Graham Anderson, a senior in Chinese and business who is a member of the group. “The secretive nature is what gives it its kick.”

Following the Yale tradition, the U Skull and Bones Society “taps” students entering their senior year to join the group, which members described as an “honor society” comprised of students who have been actively involved on campus and who are committed to furthering the U’s success and notoriety. The U society is not affiliated with the Yale Skull and Bones, and though there are some similarities between the groups, all groups are completely autonomous.

There are only about 10 students in each Skull and Bones Society initiation class, but membership is lifelong. Many members go on to be initiated into the Owl and Key Society prior to graduating, which is officially recognized by the U as an honor society. The U recognizes Owl and Key members at commencement, and though the members of the Skull and Bones Society are kept a secret, those listening carefully at graduation can detect the members of Skull and Bones.

Until 1970, members of the Skull and Bones and Owl and Key Societies were printed in the U’s yearbook, The Utonian, which stopped printing in 1972, except for a few “flimsy” editions in 1979, 1980 and 1981, said Walter Jones, who works in the Marriott Library special collections.

The Skull and Bones Society is not currently recognized by the U as an honor society, but members hope to restore the official honor society status soon. When the society was recognized, members had to maintain a 3.5 GPA, and be actively involved in different campus groups. The standards today remain the same, Anderson said.

I suspect the "similarities" between the U and Yale versions of S&B are pretty superficial (at least when Pres. Nelson was there in the mid-40s, and Elder Hales was there in the early 50s).

1 hour ago, Anijen said:

2. Was President Nelson just nominated or actual member or someone maliciously forged a paragraph in that book to make him look bad?

Looks like he was an actual member.  It's right there in his autobiography.

1 hour ago, Anijen said:

3. Your ideas, thoughts, two cents will be appreciated.

it is good to be back (except for Nehor... just kidding).

Thanks

Anijen

Let's first figure out the nature of the U's version of Skull & Bones in the 1940s (and, given that Elder Hales was a member of it, the early 1950s as well), then we can discuss whether membership in it amounts to some sort of scandal or black mark.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited January 11, 2023 by smac97

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Anijen said:

Love your humor (and I hope you took it that way)

If I understand correctly one does not need to be Harvard or Yale to be a member.

You don’t but the society at Yale is a bunch of elitists. The idea that they inducted some nobody from a state college is pretty silly.

[Kenngo1969]

4 hours ago, Mark Beesley said:

... Heck, one day, if anyone reads my autobiography, they may discover I was once a Republican. Yikes!🤣🤣🤣😇😇😇 ...

Well, even Jesus ate with Republicans and sinners, so …

   

Edited January 12, 2023 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

6 hours ago, smac97 said:

... the U's iteration of Skull & Bones "is not affiliated with the Yale Skull and Bones, and though there are some similarities between the groups, all groups are completely autonomous." ...

That may well be the case, but according to this article from The Daily Utah Chronicle, the "U's" iteration of Skull & Bones was started by a Yale alumnus:

Quote

The members, referred to as “Bonesmen,” confirmed that the U’s Skull and Bones Society is active and “was founded by a Skull and Bones Alumni [sic] from the Yale Chapter in 1909.”

Source: Amy Loret (December 4, 2018), "The U's Secret Society," The Daily Utah Chronicle, accessed on line at the following address on January 11, 2023: https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2018/12/04/the-us-secret-society-skull-and-bones/

For what it's worth.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Kenngo1969

[Bernard Gui]

9 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

That may well be the case, but according to this article from The Daily Utah Chronicle, the "U's" iteration of Skull & Bones was started by a Yale alumnus:

For what it's worth.

I think it’s kinda lame to copy another school’s stuff. The UoU group should have a more original name such as……..?

Have any Church Presidents been graduated by BYU?

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think it’s kinda lame to copy another school’s stuff. The UoU group should have a more original name such as……..?

"Bull and Skones"??? ...    (Probably, we can blame the guy who cribbed the existing name from Yale for the lack of originality.)

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Have any Church Presidents been graduated by BYU?

President Monson got an MBA from the "Y," I think.

P.S.: I was right: 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/leader/thomas-s-monson?lang=eng

Edited January 12, 2023 by Kenngo1969

[Bernard Gui]

6 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

"Bull and Skones"??? ...    (Probably, we can blame the guy who cribbed the existing name from Yale for the lack of originality.)

President Monson got an MBA from the "Y," I think.

Bull and Scones! Genius! 🤣

How many are UoU grads?

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Bull and Scones! Genius! 🤣

How many are UoU grads?

No, just a couple of semesters at U of U and on to LDS Business college. Why I even say it is funny, but it mean't something to me to say I had a very small piece of the college life. 

[madsenph]

All,

The excerpt from his book is correct.  You can read his book and see the quote here.

However, we never joined either of them.  This can be proven from the yearbooks which can be viewed here.

My thought is that he was invited by Owl & Key / Skull and Bones because they were headhunting the rising stars, and in College that seemed to be President Nelson based on all the other groups he was president or a key leader of. 

[madsenph]

Just for clarity:

1944 Skull and Bones yearbook showing he didn’t join them his Junior year: Source

1945 Owl & Key yearbook showing he didn’t join them his senior year: Source

It was kind of them to invite him, and intelligent of him to decline.  

[Calm]

4 hours ago, madsenph said:

Just for clarity:

1944 Skull and Bones yearbook showing he didn’t join them his Junior year: Source

1945 Owl & Key yearbook showing he didn’t join them his senior year: Source

It was kind of them to invite him, and intelligent of him to decline.  

It says elected in his book.  That usually means more than an invite.  Do yearbooks show people as part of clubs if they don’t bother to get a picture or submit their name?

[blackstrap]

You would think that a person studying medicine might be interested in skulls and bones . 😇

[JustAnAustralian]

49 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

You would think that a person studying medicine might be interested in skulls and bones . 😇

Yeah, but people tend to stay alive better when the skull remains inside the body.

[The Nehor]

On 1/13/2023 at 12:02 AM, JustAnAustralian said:

Yeah, but people tend to stay alive better when the skull remains inside the body.

That is what Big Skull wants you to believe so they can stay in business.

[Kenngo1969]

Does anyone want to join my new Bull & Scones Society?  We can meet monthly at the local Sconecutter.  

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Does anyone want to join my new Bull & Scones Society?  We can meet monthly at the local Sconecutter.  

 

[blarsen]

On 1/11/2023 at 4:12 PM, Anijen said:

It is supposedly on page 48 of President Nelson's autobiography, where he admits to being nominated his junior year at the U and his senior year nominated for owl and key (something like that)

This is correct.  I've got a copy of Heart to Heart. 

There are several articles in local papers going all the way back close to the days when the UofU chapter was formed in 1909, allegedly by a member of the Yale Skull & Bones; and two recent articles in the UofU Daily Utah Chronicle (2018 and 2015, as I recall).  None of these articles paint a very benign picture of the group, and the latest articles even have pictures of current members they were interviewing dressed in black, hooded robes w/disturbing white masks.

One of their alternative names is :  Brotherhood of Death.

Edited January 20, 2023 by blarsen

[blarsen]

On 1/11/2023 at 4:13 PM, Anijen said:

Love your humor (and I hope you took it that way)

If I understand correctly one does not need to be Harvard or Yale to be a member.

My understanding is that members are elected by senior class members strictly from the Yale or Univ. of Utah junior class.  The number chosen is about 12 or 15, each year.  At the UofU, at least, those who qualify as juniors, automatically become members of the Senior year Owl and Key Club, and these are those who elect the Junior members to the Skull & Bones.

[blarsen]

On 1/11/2023 at 4:43 PM, smac97 said:

FAIR says he was:

A few thoughts:

First, Pres. Nelson never went to Yale.  He went to the University of Utah.

Second, the Yale Skull & Bones was organized in 1832.  However, the above-referenced McConkie article, published in 2009, references "the Skull and Bones Society" organized at the University of Utah in 1909.  It also states that the U's iteration of Skull & Bones "is not affiliated with the Yale Skull and Bones, and though there are some similarities between the groups, all groups are completely autonomous."

Third, AFAICS, none of the footnoted references in the FAIR article includes any mention of Russell M. Nelson, though Robert D. Hales (who also attended the University of Utah) is mentioned.  And this June 10, 1953 Deseret News announcement, regarding the marriage of Robert D. Hales to Mary Elene Crandall, states that "Mr. Hales is attending the University of Utah, and is an affiliate of Pi Kappa  Alpha and Skull and Bones."

Fourth, Pres. Nelson's autobiography, From Heart to Heart, does appear to mention Skull & Bones at the U, see here:

Fifth, that Pres. Nelson mentions this in such an offhand and mundane way in his own autobiography suggests rather strongly that the U's version of the Skull & Bones was not very similar to the creepy version described as being at Yale.

Sixth, it looks like FAIR has conflated the U version of S&B with the Yale version.

"It" being his membership in the U's version of Skull & Bones, yes.

I think we need to first establish the attributes of the U's version of Skull & Bones.  From the McConkie article: "I was also later elected to the honorary societies of Skull and Bones in the junior year, Owl and Key in the senior year, the Beehive Honorary Society in the senior year, and at graduation time to the honorary scholastic societies of Phi Kappa Phi and Phi Beta Kappa."

That he enumerates Skull & Bones alongside utterly mundane memberships  like "the Beehive Honorary Society" suggests it was not that big a deal, or controversial.  From the McConkie article:

I suspect the "similarities" between the U and Yale versions of S&B are pretty superficial (at least when Pres. Nelson was there in the mid-40s, and Elder Hales was there in the early 50s).

Looks like he was an actual member.  It's right there in his autobiography.

Let's first figure out the nature of the U's version of Skull & Bones in the 1940s (and, given that Elder Hales was a member of it, the early 1950s as well), then we can discuss whether membership in it amounts to some sort of scandal or black mark.

Thanks,

-Smac

I have yet to see proper attributions that the Yale and UofU Skull & Bones aren’t affiliated in some way.  Assertions are nice, but . . . .    And we really don’t know what the rituals/oaths might be in the UofU organization.  One assertion is that a member of the Yale group founded the Utah group in 1909.  This must have some significance.

The 2015 Daily Utah Chronicle interview of Skull & Bones members does aver:  “The two chapters, Yale’s and the U’s, are still both in existence today, though they are not currently tied together. This is not for lack of trying, at least from the U’s side of things, but the society’s dedication to anonymity has made such connections difficult.”

The several articles written in the Chronicle and other local papers over the decades do not paint a very savory picture of what they learned about the UofU S&G antics/rituals, etc.

And Pres. Nelson did voice in his autobiography reservations about some of the scholastic organization he had joined, probably referring to his association w/S&B.

Further, Elder Hales was apparently the President of the UofU Skull & Bones during his UofU sojourn.