Arrested for praying

[rodheadlee]

Sorry I don't have a link. A woman was arrested for praying across the street from an abortion clinic. She was turned in by a citizen who thought she might be praying in public. She was just standing across the street from it, it's not like she was kneeling or anything.

This was in England. Perhaps Stargazer can Enlighten us or any of the other British folks on the board.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

https://www.birminghamworld.uk/news/woman-arrested-birmingham-abortion-clinic-pspo-3965122

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

https://www.birminghamworld.uk/news/woman-arrested-birmingham-abortion-clinic-pspo-3965122

That article left so many unanswered questions. Such as did the woman have a bomb? (my question)

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Just now, Tacenda said:

That article left so many unanswered questions. Such as did the woman have a bomb? (my question)

The woman was protesting abortion by praying inside a zone that does not allow free speech (to prevent harassment for abortion seekers). 

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

The woman was protesting abortion by praying inside a zone that does not allow free speech (to prevent harassment for abortion seekers). 

Oh, I understand thanks!

[CA Steve]

So she was arrested for breaking the law?

[smac97]

A recording:

She was arrested for praying in her mind.

Wow.

Thanks,

-Smac

[SeekingUnderstanding]

35 minutes ago, smac97 said:

A recording:

She was arrested for praying in her mind.

Wow.

Thanks,

-Smac

How does that compare to this: https://m.cityweekly.net/utah/kiss-off-a-gay-couple-cited-for-holding-hands-on-main-street-plaza/Content?oid=2139048

Or more recently the police being called for using a colored flashlight on y mountain? 

[Pyreaux]

Might her name be Daniella?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

A recording:

She was arrested for praying in her mind.

Wow.

Thanks,

-Smac

If she was just praying in her mind, how did they know she was praying?

[Calm]

If I was walking into my doctor’s clinic and I saw a person who was watching those coming in and out for multiple days (I go sometimes quite often to that clinic as I have 4 doctors there plus there are my daughter’s appts), I would feel disconcerted….which is not something I want to experience when going to the doctor’s, I am already highly anxious as it is.

I can see why it might be against the law just to be loitering outside a medical establishment, people are often vulnerable at that time, upset, in pain. Having someone observe me like that would make me feel like I was being used for their entertainment. Praying is irrelevant to me, them just being there seems to me like an invasion of privacy even if a public place because of the unusual circumstances of why people go to doctors’ offices.  My guess is it is the same whether a medical or an abortion clinic.  A abortion clinic would have the added issue about worry over safety with someone hanging around outside.  

She was in a restricted area.  She knew it was restricted. Therefore her being there was about protesting, not praying. I highly doubt she thought her prayers would be more effective just because she was standing on that piece of property.  I don’t see her arrested for praying, but for protesting. Using prayer as a form of public statement is still a protest. 
 

I don’t think people should have the right to get in the face of those going to and from the doctor’s just because they disagree with some of what happens there. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Calm

[rodheadlee]

33 minutes ago, Calm said:

If she was just praying in her mind, how did they know she was praying?

A citizen saw her and turned her in and said she might be praying. She answered the law officer that she was praying.

[rodheadlee]

Wow it's amazing how many people are okay with this.

[CA Steve]

What's amazing is people who defend breaking the law.

Does praying make law breaking okay?

 

 

[The Nehor]

This was an attempt to intimidate people going to a clinic and using the "I am not actually touching you" playground defense.

I doubt you will find praying on her arrest paperwork. She violated a law by going into an area that is protected from any possibility of harassment due to a history of rampant harassment.

She wasn't arrested for praying. That is ridiculous spin. Basically if you aren't going into or leaving the clinic you don't go into those zones. She was there to protest and possibly to intimidate and is now using the "I didn't actually touch you" defense. Plus the Bible tells people not to pray in order to be seen so this is kind of wrong on a religious level too.

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

A citizen saw her and turned her in and said she might be praying. She answered the law officer that she was praying.

She knew exactly what she was doing. She wasn't wandering down the street and decided to stop at that spot randomly to do a bit of praying.

[CA Steve]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

She knew exactly what she was doing. She wasn't wandering down the street and decided to stop at that spot randomly to do a bit of praying.

Exactly.

 

If it were someone trespassing on a LDS temple grounds, the reaction would be totally different here.

This isn't about praying.

[Scott Lloyd]

20 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

A citizen saw her and turned her in and said she might be praying. She answered the law officer that she was praying.

If her praying was not the point of the arrest, I wonder why the “citizen” made a point of telling the cops she was praying — as though the thing that made her presence offensive or criminal is the possibility that she might be silently praying while she was standing there. 
 

Is this the point to which we have descended in society?

Edited December 24, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

25 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

A citizen saw her and turned her in and said she might be praying. She answered the law officer that she was praying.

If you read the article at issue was where she was doing it. She could have been twiddling her thumbs for all I care. Because of her choice to stand in a no harassment zone and thus intentionally draw attention to herself, she was making a public statement.  And the faith ministry that was there to film her arrest—more than likely with an arrangement to do so with her—obviously intend to make it as public of a statement as they can. Thus it becomes a protest in my opinion.
 

I see it as the same as being filmed while standing next to the conference center or on temple square on the Sabbath and just standing there staring at the missionaries greeting visitors or others. I don’t think it is appropriate to interfere with people going to worship or going to the doctors. I would feel differently if it was going to the movies or something else that is not essentially private, vulnerable moments in people’s lives. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If her praying was not the point of the arrest, I wonder why the “citizen” made a point of telling the cops she was praying. 

And if the public protest was not the purpose of her hanging around in a restricted zone enough to get arrested, I wonder why there was a faith ministry there to film her arrest. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

A citizen saw her and turned her in and said she might be praying. She answered the law officer that she was praying.

I wonder if the citizen was someone with the faith ministry. 

[Scott Lloyd]

11 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Exactly.

 

If it were someone trespassing on a LDS temple grounds, the reaction would be totally different here.

This isn't about praying.

If the only thing the person was doing was praying silently, I wouldn’t be bothered by it, nor would I consider it trespassing. So your tu quoque fallacy fails. 

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

If you read the article at issue was where she was doing it.

Then why did the citizen make a point to complain that she might be [gasp, shudder] praying?

[CA Steve]

"Officer, I am sorry I was going 140 mph but in my defense, I was praying."

 

 

 

[Calm]

And let’s not forget the money…

Quote

Video footage of the arrest was captured by AllThingsProLife and circulated by Alliance Defending Freedom, which is hosting a fundraiser for Vaughan-Spruce’s legal defense.

If it was just about the praying, why didn’t she find a spot out of the way to pray alone?

Instead she chooses to pray where it is illegal for her to stand hanging out around the patients entering and leaving the clinic, along with her buddy with the camera who captures the public protest and then passes it off to the ADF, who thereby get to have a reason to have a fundraiser. 
 

She would need no legal defense if she had chosen to pray a half a block down the street. God would have heard her just as well, right?

She wanted to be seen and heard by men, not God. It feels like a misuse of a sacred act imo.