Racial Slur at BYU Game - Real or Hoax?

[Vanguard]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

To me it is more important to be acknowledged right than for someone to say they are sorry for thinking I was wrong. 

I don't dispute that what he said was a good thing. It's not an either/or though - he could and should have done both.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Didn’t say he couldn’t, but for me that would be all I needed and I think it should be recognized he was saying BYU was in the right. 

Perhaps. The standup thing would have been to make it explicit and remove any doubt. 

[Scott Lloyd]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

Of course not, but it lowers the probability dramatically that this is the one time an intelligent person acted this stupid with a hoax. 

I don’t spend my time studying hoaxes and their perpetrators. The fact I can’t furnish an identical or similar example on the spur of the moment has no probative value either way. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Kenngo1969]

47 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

... Doing better in this instance would have amounted to holding his tongue —  or his keyboard — for a while until all the facts were in before going off half-coxxed ...

Clever!  Very clever!  I like it!  

[Vanguard]

33 minutes ago, Amulek said:

(e.g., Juicy Smoo-yay)

You got that from Chapelle! ;o

[JAHS]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

Of course not, but it lowers the probability dramatically that this is the one time an intelligent person acted this stupid with a hoax. 

I don’t spend my time studying hoaxes and their perpetrators. The fact I can’t furnish an identical or similar example on the spur of the moment has no probative value either way. 

Here's a list I found:
Bill Clinton Has Affair with Intern, Lies Under Oath About it
Gary Hart Dares the Media to Follow Him Around
Robert McCormick Uses the Company Card for Strippers
Stephen Glass Fabricates Most of his Journalistic Work
Andrew Wakefield's Autism-Vaccine Hoax
Thomas Edison Electrocutes an Elephant
Elizabeth Fleischmann-Aschheim Gives Herself Radiation Poisoning
Jonah Lehrer Plagiarizes ... Himself
Orly Taitz Tries to Prove Obama Ineligible for Office
CIA Head David Petraeus Has Affair, Busted by Unsecured E-Mail

[Vanguard]

I would love to sit down at dinner with Ms. Richardson. She intrigues me. All optics point to her being a stand-up person (excepting her intemperate aunt!). I am in agreement with Amulek that she probably did believe she had heard something and then her sensibilities got away from her. One of the topics of discussion I would have is what kinds of things she was told as a child about the wider world and the role that 'white' America played in shaping her life. I suspect (again, just a suspicion) that she was told many negative stereotypes about this white America which in turn has shaped her perceptions. That her father spoke so authoritatively off 2nd-hand information and the unfortunate truth of her aunt confirms for me this suspicion.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Vanguard

[ksfisher]

53 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

There’s an undercurrent of rationalization and minimizing here. He says he could have done better in being patient. Doing better in this instance would have amounted to holding his tongue —  or his keyboard — for a while until all the facts were in before going off half-coxxed  

But he deserves credit for at least making the gesture. 

It seems though, that in today's political environment, that anyone who doesn't immediately condemn something like that (and I'm hearing the word condemn so much that it's starting to lose it's meaning) is vilified in the media as an accessory after the fact.  In that sense Governor Cox seems like a product of his times.  

Same with BYU's reaction.  If they hadn't acted so quickly to issue apologies and ban people they would have been accused of all kinds of things.

There seems to be no time for measured, well thought out responses any more.  No time for investigation and reasoning.   Immediate condemnation seems to be what's required or you to wear the same brand as the accused.

[Scott Lloyd]

4 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

It seems though, that in today's political environment, that anyone who doesn't immediately condemn something like that (and I'm hearing the word condemn so much that it's starting to lose it's meaning) is vilified in the media as an accessory after the fact.  In that sense Governor Cox seems like a product of his times.  

Same with BYU's reaction.  If they hadn't acted so quickly to issue apologies and ban people they would have been accused of all kinds of things.

There seems to be no time for measured, well thought out responses any more.  No time for investigation and reasoning.   Immediate condemnation seems to be what's required or you to wear the same brand as the accused.

Especially when it concerns a charge of racism, which is inappropriately thrown around with such abandon these days it is losing its meaning. 

[Stormin' Mormon]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

For those convinced this is a hoax, do you have an example of a sane person making claims of being racially harassed in a public venue where it was known there were numerous recoding devices around?  Anything close to what happened here?  Not just a hoax, but a very, very public hoax.

 

 

First: I'm sorry if the following derails us into political territory. Everyone please resist the urge to opine on the political merits of the Tea Party, the ACA, or any particular politicians. 

Second:  I'm not convinced the Richardson-BYU incident was a hoax.  I'm more of the opinion that it was something she misheard, and then a doubled-down on when the media attention got way bigger than she expected.

Third: The final disposition of the incident linked to below turned out to be inconclusive, so I'm not sure if it can be called a hoax.  The one video presented as evidence against the claim was taken several minutes after the alleged shouting of racial slurs.  A conservative activist offered a bounty (to be paid to the United Negro College Fund) for anyone with video evidence, and as far as I know, that evidence never turned up.  Make of it what you will.

So, without further ado: an example of a sane person making claims of being racially harassed in a public venue where it was known there were numerous recording devices around:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tea-party-dems-row-over-n-word-video-evidence/

[Scott Lloyd]

14 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Here's a list I found:
Bill Clinton Has Affair with Intern, Lies Under Oath About it
Gary Hart Dares the Media to Follow Him Around
Robert McCormick Uses the Company Card for Strippers
Stephen Glass Fabricates Most of his Journalistic Work
Andrew Wakefield's Autism-Vaccine Hoax
Thomas Edison Electrocutes an Elephant
Elizabeth Fleischmann-Aschheim Gives Herself Radiation Poisoning
Jonah Lehrer Plagiarizes ... Himself
Orly Taitz Tries to Prove Obama Ineligible for Office
CIA Head David Petraeus Has Affair, Busted by Unsecured E-Mail

😂 

Well done!  I should have taken a few minutes to do a Google search. 

[Bernard Gui]

4 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

It seems though, that in today's political environment, that anyone who doesn't immediately condemn something like that (and I'm hearing the word condemn so much that it's starting to lose it's meaning) is vilified in the media as an accessory after the fact.  In that sense Governor Cox seems like a product of his times.  

Same with BYU's reaction.  If they hadn't acted so quickly to issue apologies and ban people they would have been accused of all kinds of things.

There seems to be no time for measured, well thought out responses any more.  No time for investigation and reasoning.   Immediate condemnation seems to be what's required or you to wear the same brand as the accused.

I think the problem is a result of the immediate reactions to events on social media and the lazy journalists who get their materials from there. Every news story now must contain a compilation of moronic Twitter comments. 

A few thoughts…
 

Quote

 

Imagine there’s no Twitter,

It’s not a heavy task.

To read a plain news story

Is not too much to ask.

Imagine all the people

Lookin for the good.

 

Imagine just the facts ma’am,

No twisted words are spun.

No lists of Twitter comments

I’m sure it can be done.

 

Imagine all the people

Sayin’ words of love.

 

Imagine no aggressions.

Don’t have to ask you why.

No censures, slurs, or curses.

We can do it if we try

 

Imagine all the people

Talking normally.

 

You may say I'm a dreamer,

But I'm not the only one.

I hope someday you'll join us,

And the world will be as one.

 

Quote

 

 

[Bernard Gui]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Especially when it concerns a charge of racism, which is inappropriately thrown around with such abandon these days it is losing its meaning. 

Racism…sexism, hate, misogyny, and all the assorted phobias, too.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[ksfisher]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Every news story now must contain a compilation of moronic Twitter comments.

I usually skip them.

[Scott Lloyd]

16 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Racism…sexism, hate, misogyny, and all the assorted phobias, too.

It’s worse than that. “Semi-fascist” has been added to the arsenal. It’s like Godwin’s Law is the newest pandemic. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Ryan Dahle]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

If she’s so intelligent, how could she be so wrong in her perception?

 

You don’t understand perception if you think intelligence prevents you from hearing audio illusions. 

It would indeed be a strange situation if she completely made it up. But the story from Richardson and those close to her push back pretty strongly against a simple auditory illusion. I wonder if this is a case where maybe she really thought she heard something racially derisive, but then she and/or her family significantly exaggerated the clarity and repetition of the alleged insults. I'm not leaving an outright fabrication off the table, but the above scenario seems more likely to me. I'm skeptical, though, that she was really so certain of her own claims. It isn't implausible that she knew deep down that she could have been (and likely was) mishearing something but chose to interpret it as racism anyway. 

Or maybe she really truly believes her own story, and maybe she really did hear something that repeatedly sounded to her like racism, and maybe it is just a fluke that such a misunderstanding can't be brought to light by the video/audio/witnesses. This possibility still shouldn't be completely discounted, but it seems like the least likely option to me.

I'm betting on blatant (and possibly intentional) exaggeration fueled by a deep fervor and zeal for activism towards racial justice. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Ryan Dahle

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, Ryan Dahle said:

...  I wonder if this is a case where maybe she really thought she heard something racially derisive, but then she and/or her family significantly exaggerated the clarity and repetition of the alleged insults. I'm not leaving an outright fabrication off the table, but the above scenario seems more likely to me. ... It isn't implausible that she knew deep down that she could have been (and likely was) mishearing something but chose to interpret it as racism anyway. ...

I think, given the comments of "Would-Be Her Honor," "Would-Be The Judge," Lesa Pamplin, aka her God(mother), that that's a very likely scenario.  She may have said to herself, Well, I'm too invested in this narrative, now.  [Or at least, others are invested in it.]  So I've got to run with it.

Quote

I'm skeptical, though, that she was really so certain of her own claims.

A big part of me doubts she was, until her God(mother) did her the "favor" (???) of blowing up the story for her.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[smac97]

3 hours ago, Ryan Dahle said:

It would indeed be a strange situation if she completely made it up.

Not that strange, I think.  Such hoaxes are, unfortunately, much more common than we would like to think.

3 hours ago, Ryan Dahle said:

But the story from Richardson and those close to her push back pretty strongly against a simple auditory illusion.  I wonder if this is a case where maybe she really thought she heard something racially derisive, but then she and/or her family significantly exaggerated the clarity and repetition of the alleged insults.

Yep.  Her narrative is too emphatic, too specific, too detailed.  I think she either made it up, or else she misheard and then significantly embellished/embroidered to the incident to make it more inflammatory and provocative.

3 hours ago, Ryan Dahle said:

I'm not leaving an outright fabrication off the table, but the above scenario seems more likely to me. I'm skeptical, though, that she was really so certain of her own claims. It isn't implausible that she knew deep down that she could have been (and likely was) mishearing something but chose to interpret it as racism anyway. 

Yes, particularly if there is a "greater good"-style of reasoning going on.

3 hours ago, Ryan Dahle said:

Or maybe she really truly believes her own story, and maybe she really did hear something that repeatedly sounded to her like racism, and maybe it is just a fluke that such a misunderstanding can't be brought to light by the video/audio/witnesses. This possibility still shouldn't be completely discounted, but it seems like the least likely option to me.

I'm betting on blatant (and possibly intentional) exaggeration fueled by a deep fervor and zeal for activism towards racial justice. 

Yes, that seems the most likely explanation given the current state of the evidence.

Thanks,

-Smac

[JAHS]

23 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Yep.  Her narrative is too emphatic, too specific, too detailed.  I think she either made it up, or else she misheard and then significantly embellished/embroidered to the incident to make it more inflammatory and provocative.

And scripted it appears. Her video presentation sounded like it was prewritten and rehearsed. 

[gopher]

I would question what I thought I heard after my entire team, coaches, and everyone else told me they didn't hear it.  She had players near her who didn't hear any slurs, even after she alerted them to listen for them.  Only she heard the slurs throughout the 4th set when the evidence is clear they didn't occur then.  But she still doesn't want to acknowledge that she may have misheard the slurs.  I'm surprised she hasn't tried to defend herself now that the narrative has turned against her.

In sports you look for any advantage over your opponent.  You also look for ways to motivate your team especially when you are down 2 sets and on the verge of losing the match.  Maybe she thought it would fire up her team.  It worked since Duke rallied to win the 3rd set before losing the 4th and final set.  Or she could just be a poor sport trying to punish the school that defeated her team.

It's unfortunate since she had so much support when the story first came out.  I'm not sure what she can do at this point.  She still hasn't apologized to the innocent fan that she personally accused of yelling the slurs.  That would be a good start.

[Emily]

11 hours ago, teddyaware said:

And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few,

We don't bring this up in church often enough. There were so many years in my youth that I'd hear  stories about the phenomenal growth of the church and the stories were told with "See! See!" glee; as if sheer numbers of believers would indicate that the gospel was true.

The scriptures make it pretty clear that as we approach the last days, we won't be pulling in converts with nets...we will have to send out every person in the church to beat the bushes for a very meagre return of the elusive seed of Abraham. And in the meantime, many of the "very elect" will be allowing themselves to be deceived and will be leaving the church. 

Covid did quite a bit of wheat/tare reaping already. Many stayed home from their meetings, and from what I've seen of our half empty buildings...never came back. 

I think you are right Teddy. This kind of incident isn't going to become less frequent with time. People will be looking for ways to attack the church. Personal grudges, political hype or hopes of monetary gain. Whatever the reason, we will see more of this kind of thing in the future.

 

[Emily]

10 hours ago, ksfisher said:

There seems to be no time for measured, well thought out responses any more.  No time for investigation and reasoning.   Immediate condemnation seems to be what's required or you to wear the same brand as the accused.

I blame Crime/Detective Shows.

[Emily]

I read through more of Richardson's comments and honestly, I don't think she's lying. She seems sincere and genuinely distressed in the comments I read and some of the events she mentions did actually occur. Her interpretation, however, may be a bit faulty. 

For example, police said many of the BYU students were yelling the names of the players from both teams. Rachel said the same thing, but felt that she and the other black players were being singled out.

I don't know about the other black players on the team, but Richardson is a very pretty girl, so it's quite possible some over-enthusiastic young males were indeed singling her out.

A friend of mine also noted that there is a "Nikki" and a "Ngozi" on the Duke team. If either one was playing that night, bad acoustics and lots of extra noise might have turned a name into an offensive word.
https://goduke.com/sports/womens-volleyball/roster

Police say the young man accused of yelling the slurs was looking at his phone at one of the times he supposedly was yelling. Rachel also noticed him playing with his phone but thought he was making a recording.

In one of the official video clips from the game, the announcer says things were getting tense when BYU was not doing as well during the third set and into the fourth set. Rachel also noticed tension at that point, but felt it was threatening towards her and her teammates.

She says she reported the slur and guards were sent down to protect the team. This is corroborated by BYU and the police. These guards also reported they didn't hear any racial slurs but did hear player names being yelled. 

Basically, I do think she's recounting what actually happened, as she perceived it. So it's probably best not to consider her a liar. Just a young girl who was under a lot of pressure at the time -- whose relatives cared more about press coverage than they cared about possible fallout for Rachel. I feel rather bad for her. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Emily

[Calm]

8 hours ago, gopher said:

I would question what I thought I heard after my entire team, coaches, and everyone else told me they didn't hear it.  

We don’t know what any of the above said to her. 

It is possible she asked them if they heard the slur and they first during the game responded along the lines of ‘I think so’, because her confidence in what she heard drew their memories to restructure and create possibilities in the sounds they remembered.  Their ‘possibly heard it’ she took to mean “Yes” and became more certain, causing her to hear it numerous times later in the game.  The young man accused told the police he has been yelling about the net. Others no doubt were yelling “cougars”.  Those two words close together in a massive crowd, the brain could pick them out and meld them easily enough.  And they would have been said constantly throughout the game.  Plenty of opportunities for mistaken combining.  Perhaps the teammates now alerted picked out a few occasions that it was possibly said, so when talking about it as a group they were backing her up again. But perhaps they were not fully committed to it, saying they may have heard it. That would explain why the Duke coaches didn’t do anything at first.

And later when questioned for the investigation, teammates were clear they might have heard it, but looking back they think it unlikely, so the investigative team concluded correctly they hadn’t heard it.   But teammates also would naturally want to be supportive of Richardson and maybe as women (most team members are white, likely only one other Black member of the team, possibly two https://goduke.com/sports/womens-volleyball/roster ) they understand the importance of not being dismissive of accusations, so they take her claims seriously and don’t push back against her confidence, telling her she is wrong and instead leave it open as a possibility, that there were yells that weren’t clear, but could possibly have been a slur.  
 

Richardson could believe the investigation erred on the side of reasonable doubt while she is still certain she heard what she heard. 

Has anyone seen details about the encounter afterwards where the fan said he approached Richardson because he thought she looked like a friend of his?  Were they separated from the group so only she could hear him or were others there?  If it is a she said/he said situation and she believes she heard him say a threat, she has no reason to change her mind as he would simply be lying to avoid trouble in her view. 
 

Would be helpful to know the details of the postgame encounter. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, Emily said:

 

A friend of mine also noted that there is a "Nikki" and a "Ngozi" on the Duke team. If either one was playing that night, bad acoustics and lots of extra noise might have turned a name into an offensive word.
https://goduke.com/sports/womens-volleyball/roster

Hadn’t thought of that, good possibility. And good analysis of her comments.