JAHS Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 LDS Church has Most Valuable Private Real Estate Portfolio in the US, Evidence Suggests Interactive map shows the real estate holdings of the church. Very impressive (and not even complete). 4
LoudmouthMormon Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 Dang - when they say "stop coming to Utah and build up Zion where you're standing", they really mean it.
Amulek Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 Interesting. Also worth noting was the previous article: Truth & Transparency has one last news story; will cease operations thereafter So, be sure to get all of your commenting out of your system, as the OP appears to be the last we will be hearing from Ryan McKnight for the foreseeable future - with the possible exception of drive by postings here on the board. 2
bluebell Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Amulek said: Interesting. Also worth noting was the previous article: Truth & Transparency has one last news story; will cease operations thereafter So, be sure to get all of your commenting out of your system, as the OP appears to be the last we will be hearing from Ryan McKnight for the foreseeable future - with the possible exception of drive by postings here on the board. Hmmmm. I wonder why? Maybe they didn’t have as much source material as they thought they would.
Calm Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, bluebell said: Hmmmm. I wonder why? Maybe they didn’t have as much source material as they thought they would. Or got slapped down too hard by the lawsuit. 1
JAHS Posted April 5, 2022 Author Posted April 5, 2022 16 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said: Dang - when they say "stop coming to Utah and build up Zion where you're standing", they really mean it. Might be interesting to see a map of all the holdings the church has in the entire world. 1
Popular Post Calm Posted April 5, 2022 Popular Post Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) Make sure to check out dots close by you. I found five identical looking dots around the corner. One is the chapel, another is the old gazebo for picnics, the third is the shed for lawnmowers I am guessing and the last two hit somewhere in the parking lot. All marked as “special purpose”. High value real estate indeed. . Edited April 5, 2022 by Calm 7
Robert F. Smith Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, JAHS said: .................. A plot of Roman Catholic holdings, or any other large church, will have a similar color-coded result, except that the RC properties will outnumber the LDS -- in the USA and worldwide. The LDS Church owns a lot of land which it does not currently use, but which it may use in the future. It also owns vast ranch properties, which are used to produce beef cattle for charity (Bishops' Storehouses). Included are single family homes which house the ranch families hired to run those large ranches (I knew one of those families). One question I have is, are all chapels and temple and other church bldgs included? Or is it only taxable properties which are listed here? The reason I ask is the OP title is "private real estate portfolio." What does "private" mean? Edited April 5, 2022 by Robert F. Smith
Calm Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, JAHS said: Might be interesting to see a map of all the holdings the church has in the entire world. There is a good chance they are missing a significant number just from a quick check by me and a few friends. One found all the small chapels fine, but no stake building. Iirc also missing church property up American Fork Canyon. I may check out the church camps if my husband is free before it’s passing out time for me (my sleep cycle has been strangely moving towards evening till midnight in an irresistible fashion, one minute I am wide awake and ‘full’* of energy (plus typical amounts of brain fog of course), the next Thor’s hammer is sitting on my chest and obviously not looking to move for a few hours and Thor is no where to be seen to come pick the dang thing off. *”full” meaning in the context of my levels of energy, not the rest of humanity’s experience.
JustAnAustralian Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 26 minutes ago, bluebell said: Maybe they didn’t have as much source material as they thought they would I figured that once they gave up on calling it mormonleaks and had to branch out into other religions. 1
pogi Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 Apparently, the entirety of New York and most of Florida is owned by the Church as vacant land or "special purpose" use. 1
Calm Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: are all chapels and temple and other church bldgs included? No, iirc they only used spots that were tied to a certain address. I have not looked at the data to see if they revealed that address. I honestly lost interest once I found out I was supposed to be jarred by the fact thenChurch not only owned the chapel, but the shed, the gazebo and parking lot as well. They said they verified each find (correction, they verified the fancy stuff, not the mundane lawnmower sheds); if so, they left in the trivial stuff without revealing as far as I have seen that it is trivial. Perhaps the fact it was an old shed and gazebo and picnic table plus parking lots is mentioned in the data. I don’t believe they tried to test percentage of hits compared to known church owned sites. I remember them saying they didn’t have the Chicago temple listed. And as I said above they are missing a stake building in American fork and a park up the canyon. We probably spent no more than 5 minutes on it, I just looked at the one site as I was laughing too hard to keep going, so I suspect there will be lots missing. But those sheds and gazebos add up! added: Quote While initially looking into a handful of properties known to be owned by the Utah-based church, a common data point was discovered: a single address that was associated with each property, regardless of the legal entity that owned it. Working under the hypothesis that this single address could be the key to mapping all—or at least a large portion—of the church’s landholdings, Truth & Transparency tapped into a database compiled by Reonomy. A New York City-based technology company, Reonomy is considered a “leading provider of [commercial real estate] insights, empowering top brokerages, financial institutions, and commercial services providers with actionable data and solutions”. Using this common data point, Truth & Transparency uncovered the parcels mentioned above through Reonomy. In order to obtain the highest level of confidence in the integrity of the data, Truth & Transparency manually verified every property with a market value of at least $20 million and another 1,000 randomly selected samples from the remaining population. Reonomy’s records do not include properties zoned for single family residences nor do they claim the data is completely comprehensive. For example, the Chicago LDS temple in Glenview, IL does not show up in the query. It is unclear what would preclude properties that share the same common data point to not be included in the query. Furthermore, it is possible that there are other properties in the US that are owned by the church that are not associated with the common address. Thus, the properties found should be considered the Mormon Church’s minimum landholdings in July 2020. Edited April 5, 2022 by Calm 1
bluebell Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, Calm said: Or got slapped down too hard by the lawsuit. Did they lose a lawsuit? I must have missed that.
The Nehor Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 Good to see the world domination plan is still on track. 27 minutes ago, Calm said: Make sure to check out dots close by you. I found five identical looking dots around the corner. One is the chapel, another is the old gazebo for picnics, the third is the shed for lawnmowers I am guessing and the last two hit somewhere in the parking lot. All marked as “special purpose”. High value real estate indeed. . That shed hides an ICBM silo. 2
Calm Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, bluebell said: Did they lose a lawsuit? I must have missed that. They should have stuck with Saints. The Witnesses went after them and won iirc. https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/07/20/mormonleaks-founders-pay/ Quote The nonprofit had said it intended to fight the lawsuit, asserting the release of the videos is covered under a constitutional right to free speech. But after fundraising efforts came up short, the group settled the lawsuit instead. Turns out not everyone can make a living from running anti sites. If you are going to have to risk your own money, it is not so fun. Edited April 5, 2022 by Calm 3
Calm Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: Good to see the world domination plan is still on track. That shed hides an ICBM silo. In the basement, obviously. Can’t believe I missed that. Must be the blind sheep training I have been getting the past several years. 1
Calm Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) Now I am really annoyed with my head this week…Meniere’s is flaring a bit so I will have to pass on this new Pokémon Goish game, driving around seeing if I could catch them all. There are couple of dozen around close by that I have no clue on. Maybe after some sleep I will pull up google street view and have a virtual scavenger hunt at least. They do have Aspen Grove on the map…11 pink dots for public and semi public…but the buildings are over away from the dots, so got to wonder what they are. Quote To explore it full screen, click the button in the top right corner. What button? Oh, wait…left corner… Edited April 6, 2022 by Calm
JustAnAustralian Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) Downloaded the whole list. A basic excel pivot table Row Labels Sum of acreage Sum of Market Value Sum of Assessed Value Agricultural 858,941.07 1,957,191,571.00 671,340,561.00 Commercial General/Misc. 1,985.25 274,847,362.00 219,171,570.00 Easements/Personal Prop/Other 15,422.63 43,686,584.00 100,749,512.00 Hospitality 28.23 51,731,167.00 44,936,076.00 Industrial 1,030.45 414,267,063.00 391,320,510.00 Mixed Use 128.02 626,940,337.00 569,108,055.00 Multifamily 506.63 603,380,822.00 547,728,628.00 Office 905.88 462,239,602.00 416,396,684.00 Public & Semi-Public 73,660.64 928,528,091.00 745,844,775.00 Retail 415.29 544,927,994.00 523,539,758.00 Special Purpose 21,471.07 8,729,701,452.00 6,912,900,170.00 Vacant Land 780,132.27 1,073,736,414.00 577,399,879.00 (blank) Grand Total 1,754,627.43 15,711,178,459.00 11,720,436,178.00 So really you can blame the market for having the market value so high, being about 34% above assessed value overall, or looking at the most inflated states.. State Sum of Market Value Sum of Assessed Value inflated perc KS 39,585,791.00 1,318,257.00 2903 OK 21,108,351.00 1,260,092.00 1575 TN 25,226,100.00 2,239,280.00 1027 WY 4,498,815.00 427,389.00 953 MS 4,489,000.00 469,688.00 856 LA 15,822,810.00 2,047,518.00 673 AZ 941,447,683.00 143,349,680.00 557 AL 27,161,997.00 5,394,376.00 404 AR 6,079,950.00 1,215,990.00 400 CO 302,355,150.00 75,313,567.00 301 MO 60,385,531.00 15,112,609.00 300 FL 1,199,525,296.00 353,352,494.00 239 NM 87,145,991.00 29,365,006.00 197 NV 357,321,852.00 125,062,649.00 186 OH 87,201,720.00 30,834,235.00 183 GA 130,979,924.00 52,391,972.00 150 IL 58,275,985.00 24,492,189.00 138 OR 712,565,879.00 325,353,985.00 119 SC 18,234,679.00 8,383,015.00 118 MI 9,641,633.00 4,765,444.00 102 That casual 800M difference between assessed and market in AZ and 850M diff in Florida do a lot when the total market value is only 16B Edited April 5, 2022 by JustAnAustralian 1
Calm Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 Going into the data… Quote You can run standard postgresql SQL queries here against all of your private repos and any public data on bit.io. Anyone speak geek? 1
Calm Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said: Downloaded the whole list. Some basic excel pivot tables Row Labels Sum of acreage Sum of Market Value Sum of Assessed Value Agricultural 858,941.07 1,957,191,571.00 671,340,561.00 Commercial General/Misc. 1,985.25 274,847,362.00 219,171,570.00 Easements/Personal Prop/Other 15,422.63 43,686,584.00 100,749,512.00 Hospitality 28.23 51,731,167.00 44,936,076.00 Industrial 1,030.45 414,267,063.00 391,320,510.00 Mixed Use 128.02 626,940,337.00 569,108,055.00 Multifamily 506.63 603,380,822.00 547,728,628.00 Office 905.88 462,239,602.00 416,396,684.00 Public & Semi-Public 73,660.64 928,528,091.00 745,844,775.00 Retail 415.29 544,927,994.00 523,539,758.00 Special Purpose 21,471.07 8,729,701,452.00 6,912,900,170.00 Vacant Land 780,132.27 1,073,736,414.00 577,399,879.00 (blank) Grand Total 1,754,627.43 15,711,178,459.00 11,720,436,178.00 So really you can blame the market for having the market value so high, being about 34% above assessed value overall, or looking at the most inflated states.. State Sum of Market Value Sum of Assessed Value inflated perc KS 39,585,791.00 1,318,257.00 2903 OK 21,108,351.00 1,260,092.00 1575 TN 25,226,100.00 2,239,280.00 1027 WY 4,498,815.00 427,389.00 953 MS 4,489,000.00 469,688.00 856 LA 15,822,810.00 2,047,518.00 673 AZ 941,447,683.00 143,349,680.00 557 AL 27,161,997.00 5,394,376.00 404 AR 6,079,950.00 1,215,990.00 400 CO 302,355,150.00 75,313,567.00 301 MO 60,385,531.00 15,112,609.00 300 FL 1,199,525,296.00 353,352,494.00 239 NM 87,145,991.00 29,365,006.00 197 NV 357,321,852.00 125,062,649.00 186 OH 87,201,720.00 30,834,235.00 183 GA 130,979,924.00 52,391,972.00 150 IL 58,275,985.00 24,492,189.00 138 OR 712,565,879.00 325,353,985.00 119 SC 18,234,679.00 8,383,015.00 118 MI 9,641,633.00 4,765,444.00 102 That casual 800M difference between assessed and market does a lot when the total is only 16B This is it? No info about each dot? Not even the ones personally verified as over $20 million? We are just supposed to take their word for it? What a letdown. I was looking forward to an evening of feeling like I belonged vicariously…sort of…among The Rich and Famous, but it’s back to the lawnmower shed. Manhattan real estate is estimated around $1000 per square foot, $650,000,000 per block. How come we don’t have more of that? Or any? Edited April 5, 2022 by Calm 2
Calm Posted April 6, 2022 Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) So the only commonality I am seeing is in Owners, Corporation of the Pres Bish etc. Edited April 6, 2022 by Calm
Calm Posted April 6, 2022 Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) Oh wow! We have a garage in NYC: Quote APN 4-3373-22 Address 2126 Menahan St City Queens County Queens County State NY ZIP 11385 Acreage 0.302 Tax Year 2019 Listed Owners Corp. of Pres Bishop of LDS Chu Assessed Value $118,350 Market Value $263,000 Assessed Value (Number) 118,350 Market Value (Number) 263,000 Land Use Description Garage Asset Category Special Purpose Quote APN 4-1336-17 Address 4049 62Nd St City Queens County Queens County State NY ZIP 11377 Acreage 0.467 Tax Year 2019 Listed Owners Corporation & Presiding Bishop & Church Assessed Value $381,600 Market Value $848,000 Assessed Value (Number) 381,600 Market Value (Number) 848,000 Land Use Description Garage Asset Category Special Purpose Make that four garages…do we have anything but garages in NYC? Found a nongarage….so garages and churches…. Quote APN 12-00033-0000-00031 Address 6301 Palisade Ave City West New York County Hudson County State NJ ZIP 7093 Acreage 0.344 Tax Year 2019 Listed Owners Intellectural Reserve Inc, Corporation of The President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Church of J C of Latter Day Sai Assessed Value $388,200 Market Value $1,326,272 Assessed Value (Number) 388,200 Market Value (Number) 1,326,272 Land Use Description Religious Asset Category Special Purpose Urg…other people need to stop playing with it, it is freezing up. Good time to stop resisting the Void. Nap time all, good night. Edited April 6, 2022 by Calm
Buckeye Posted April 6, 2022 Posted April 6, 2022 3 hours ago, JAHS said: LDS Church has Most Valuable Private Real Estate Portfolio in the US, Evidence Suggests Interactive map shows the real estate holdings of the church. Very impressive (and not even complete). It’s missing my stake center. I feel left out.
Hamba Tuhan Posted April 6, 2022 Posted April 6, 2022 22 minutes ago, Buckeye said: It’s missing my stake center. I feel left out. I just checked a town that I used to work in in the American West. Not one chapel is marked. Clearly, we own far more than is on this map! 1
Calm Posted April 6, 2022 Posted April 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Clearly, we own far more than is on this map! Since we are placed at 5th with an incomplete list, think of what we could be at with a full one!
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