Dustin Grady?

[Bernard Gui]

Is anyone familiar with Dustin Grady/Doctrine of Christ?

[JLHPROF]

No, but a quick Google and skimming his website puts him in the new emerging group implying that the Church is out of order.  They're like fundamentalist groups for the 21st century.

IE Polygamy is bad and Joseph never lived it/fell/repented of it; no man between me and Christ; no need to follow the prophets;

I'm sure he'll be naming Davidic Servants any day.

These new trends such as Deznat, Snufferites, etc are truly fascinating.

 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

No, but a quick Google and skimming his website puts him in the new emerging group implying that the Church is out of order.  They're like fundamentalist groups for the 21st century.

IE Polygamy is bad and Joseph never lived it/fell/repented of it; no man between me and Christ; no need to follow the prophets;

I'm sure he'll be naming Davidic Servants any day.

These new trends such as Deznat, Snufferites, etc are truly fascinating.

 

And entertaining. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

And entertaining. 

As long as I don’t think of them as real people and instead more like a drama.  Real people makes it tragic in my view.  Like seeing a train wreck or natural disaster…it looks cool as long as the reality is kept separate.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

…it looks cool as long as the reality is kept separate.

Uh oh.

That pesky "R" word again....

[smac97]

7 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

No, but a quick Google and skimming his website puts him in the new emerging group implying that the Church is out of order.  They're like fundamentalist groups for the 21st century.

IE Polygamy is bad and Joseph never lived it/fell/repented of it; no man between me and Christ; no need to follow the prophets;

I'm sure he'll be naming Davidic Servants any day.

These new trends such as Deznat, Snufferites, etc are truly fascinating.

 

Hmm. I think he's blown past "implying" and is into "saying/declaring."  See here:

Thanks,

-Smac

[Robert F. Smith]

I thought Doctrine of Christ was headed by Phil Davis, the End Times Servant, a Provo chocolatier. https://religiondispatches.org/a-new-mormon-religion-has-taken-qanon-conspiracies-and-canonized-them-as-doctrine/ ; https://doctrineofchrist.com/, and his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/DoctrineofChrist/videos .

 

[Fether]

 

Didn’t really want to make a new thread in this, but I wanted to investigate a few of the claims they have made.

On my off time I’ve been skimming through some of their views and claims. A couple of them have fallen apart pretty quick, but I was curious about some others I lack the expertise and time to look into at the moment .

The first couple have to do with their claim that Joseph Smith never practice polygamy and was completely against it

1) Neither Joseph Smith, nor any of his family members ever personally stated or recorded having ever participated in plural marriage. Joseph, Hyrum, William, Samuel, Emma, and their son Joseph III all rejected plural marriage their entire lives and carried with them to their deaths that it was not something Joseph ever did. Joseph did seal himself to women, but such dealings were not intended to be marriages, but rather dealings of adoption or as family. Such dealings were also done with men. All evidences suggesting Joseph was married to other woman in ways that included sexual relations were brought about years after his death. All the records we have about Joseph, Emma, and Hyrum participating in it all come from 2nd and 3rd hand sources years (and sometimes decades) after Joseph’s death.

2) Section 131 and 132 were not written by Joseph Smith. this revelation was not publicly published to the saints till a decade after the Prophet’s death. The 132 revelation was actually a draft of a draft that did not match the original revelation.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Fether

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

 

Didn’t really want to make a new thread in this, but I wanted to investigate a few of the claims they have made.

On my off time I’ve been skimming through some of their views and claims. A couple of them have fallen apart pretty quick, but I was curious about some others I lack the expertise and time to look into at the moment .

The first couple have to do with their claim that Joseph Smith never practice polygamy and was completely against it

1) Neither Joseph Smith, nor any of his family members ever personally stated or recorded having ever participated in plural marriage. Joseph, Hyrum, William, Samuel, Emma, and their son Joseph III all rejected plural marriage their entire lives and carried with them to their deaths that it was not something Joseph ever did. Joseph did seal himself to women, but such dealings were not intended to be marriages, but rather dealings of adoption or as family. Such dealings were also done with men. All evidences suggesting Joseph was married to other woman in ways that included sexual relations were brought about years after his death. All the records we have about Joseph, Emma, and Hyrum participating in it all come from 2nd and 3rd hand sources years (and sometimes decades) after Joseph’s death.

2) Section 131 and 132 were not written by Joseph Smith. this revelation was not publicly published to the saints till a decade after the Prophet’s death. The 132 revelation was actually a draft of a draft that did not match the original revelation.

Midnight Mormons interviewed Phil Davis, which some posters have spoke about. They both sound like they come from the same vine. I don't get it, even when Brad brings up the Smoot hearings with JS's wives testifying, he didn't seem to have a good answer. 

 

[Fether]

37 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Midnight Mormons interviewed Phil Davis, which some posters have spoke about. They both sound like they come from the same vine. I don't get it, even when Brad brings up the Smoot hearings with JS's wives testifying, he didn't seem to have a good answer. 

 

Yep! It was actually this video that triggered my curiosity.

[Fether]

13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

even when Brad brings up the Smoot hearings with JS's wives testifying, he didn't seem to have a good answer. 

One of the claims is that the affidavits gathered by JS’s plural wives is that they all said they were “sealed or married” to JS. They make the claim that it is well documented that Joseph Smith sealed many people, men and women, to him, but it was never intended to be a marriage. The claim is that all the people whom he was married to that claimed sexual relations were fabricated.

Do we have any hard evidences of sexual relations or carnal marriages between Joseph and any other women? From what I found, There is a strong argument against Fanny Alger and Elisa R Snow having sexual relations even though they are often pointed to as being the two main ones. All the sources seem to be 2nd/3rd hand and the only 1st hand accounts we have are debatable at best

[Nofear]

24 minutes ago, Fether said:

Do we have any hard evidences of sexual relations or carnal marriages between Joseph and any other women? From what I found, There is a strong argument against Fanny Alger and Elisa R Snow having sexual relations even though they are often pointed to as being the two main ones. All the sources seem to be 2nd/3rd hand and the only 1st hand accounts we have are debatable at best

I guess you can decide for yourself what is "hard evidence".
https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/common-questions/plural-marriages-sexual/

[Tacenda]

34 minutes ago, Fether said:

One of the claims is that the affidavits gathered by JS’s plural wives is that they all said they were “sealed or married” to JS. They make the claim that it is well documented that Joseph Smith sealed many people, men and women, to him, but it was never intended to be a marriage. The claim is that all the people whom he was married to that claimed sexual relations were fabricated.

Do we have any hard evidences of sexual relations or carnal marriages between Joseph and any other women? From what I found, There is a strong argument against Fanny Alger and Elisa R Snow having sexual relations even though they are often pointed to as being the two main ones. All the sources seem to be 2nd/3rd hand and the only 1st hand accounts we have are debatable at best

I remember one of the wives testified that it was a marriage in every way. And also, Joseph could have fathered a few children but it's hard to prove, since the wives had husbands and it could have been an either or situation. Also this account with Sylvia Sessions: https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Polygamy/Plural_wives/Sylvia_Sessions_Lyon