bsjkki Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 My spouse has no desire to attend tithing settlement. We answer to our tithing situation in temple recommend interviews. Why is tithing settlement necessary and is there any reason one must go in person? For me, it has always seemed a bit of a waste of time and more about the Bishop meeting with each family to issue a ward challenge.
Fether Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 59 minutes ago, bsjkki said: My spouse has no desire to attend tithing settlement. We answer to our tithing situation in temple recommend interviews. Why is tithing settlement necessary and is there any reason one must go in person? For me, it has always seemed a bit of a waste of time and more about the Bishop meeting with each family to issue a ward challenge. There are many things in the church that we can complain about. The vast majority of these things are inconsequential. We need to be careful not to fulfill 2 Nephi 9:28 “When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.” What are we losing from going to tithing settlement? Is it harmful? Is 10 minutes spent with the Bishop to declare one’s self a full tithe payer once a year really worth the feeling one gets when they complain about it? Is there some moral high ground found in complaining about tithing settlement? Does it feel good to be a part of the anti-tithing movement? Are we scared tithing settlement is the church’s way of shaking every last dime out of us? Do we not respect the authority of the bishop? Do we reject the claims of the church that is is the true church? What is it exactly that causes us to complain about little things like this? Edited November 8, 2021 by Fether 3
bsjkki Posted November 8, 2021 Author Posted November 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Fether said: There are many things in the church that we can complain about. The vast majority of these things are inconsequential. We need to be careful not to fulfill 2 Nephi 9:28 “When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.” What are we losing from going to tithing settlement? Is it harmful? Is 10 minutes spent with the Bishop to declare one’s self a full tithe payer once a year really worth the feeling one gets when they complain about it? Is there some moral high ground found in complaining about tithing settlement? Does it feel good to be a part of the anti-tithing movement? Are we scared tithing settlement is the church’s way of shaking every last dime out of us? Do we not respect the authority of the bishop? Do we reject the claims of the church that is is the true church? What is it exactly that causes us to complain about little things like this? Looking for doctrinal requirements to go. Individual circumstances vary. This has nothing to with being anti tithing and was not implied in my question. 3
Popular Post Stargazer Posted November 8, 2021 Popular Post Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, bsjkki said: My spouse has no desire to attend tithing settlement. We answer to our tithing situation in temple recommend interviews. Why is tithing settlement necessary and is there any reason one must go in person? For me, it has always seemed a bit of a waste of time and more about the Bishop meeting with each family to issue a ward challenge. It's quite simple. The bishop has to report annually the tithing status of every member in the ward, to headquarters. There's a specific report set up for that. Telling the bishopric member who interviews you for your T/R does not get entered into a report. And since these interviews only occur biennially, it wouldn't help the annual report. If you don't tell the bishop your tithing status in tithing settlement, then he has to make a guess. Participating in tithing settlement is important for two reasons: The ward's budget is calculated according to average sacrament meeting attendance combined with overall tithing faithfulness. Every member who is marked as a full tithepayer contributes towards the amount the church allocates to the ward (and stake) for annual operations. This benefits you indirectly due to ward operations that are helpful to you. You have the opportunity to make sure that what you believe you donated matches what the ward says you donated. Granted, you can now do this online without reference to tithing settlement. You're also supposed to get a copy of the current membership status of family members so that you can review it for errors and omissions. Back when I was ward clerk, I recall that during tithing settlement one family discovered that their daughter's baptism had not been recorded, and, though she was nearly 12 at that time, was still carried as a "child of record." This enabled them to scramble to locate witnesses to the baptism and get it properly entered. Wouldn't it have been interesting if they hadn't caught this when she was about to be married in the temple, or attend BYU that she wasn't a member of the church and they had to scramble to get that sorted out, too? That the bishop might use the interview to accomplish other things is superfluous. He's not asked to do anything other than ask tithing status, sign the annual donation form (for tax purposes), and receive any last-moment donations. Edited November 8, 2021 by Stargazer corrected syntax 7
Fether Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Looking for doctrinal requirements to go. Individual circumstances vary. This has nothing to with being anti tithing and was not implied in my question. I understand, I was just listing potential reasons as to why someone might complain. As for doctrinal reasons, what do you consider doctrine enough? Does it have to be found in the standard works? Does a Prophet’s statement in general conference or an interview suffice? 1
Stargazer Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Looking for doctrinal requirements to go. Individual circumstances vary. This has nothing to with being anti tithing and was not implied in my question. OK, then. DC 119:4 - "And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord." The principle "what is not recorded has not happened" is operative here. In the temple we learn that we must "return and report." Tithing is subject to every other divine law. And reporting and recording are part of it. My earlier point, that you only get your temple recommend renewed biennially. And what if you don't have a temple recommend? Edited November 8, 2021 by Stargazer 2
Fether Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 @bsjkkiI would also add that the temple recommend question on tithing is a question of principle, not specifics. Tithing settlement allows you to see the specific number and make a statement as to whether that is a full tithe. Last year, at tithing settlement, the bishop presented the number and I noticed it was $1000 short. I would not have caught that bad the Bishop not brought it up. 3
bluebell Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 I've never been issued a ward challenge at tithing settlement in the five states that I have lived in so I can't speak to that. I do think that the bishop does use the time to see how people are doing, generally speaking. I don't like doing them either, just because they are annoying. Having to stay after church or go back on a Sunday, still in sunday dress, to see the bishop for ten minutes and say "yes we are full tithe payers" is kind of annoying. I do it because I'm asked to and no other reason. This article in on the church's website and explains why we are asked to do tithing settlement. 1
bluebell Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Fether said: @bsjkkiI would also add that the temple recommend question on tithing is a question of principle, not specifics. Tithing settlement allows you to see the specific number and make a statement as to whether that is a full tithe. Last year, at tithing settlement, the bishop presented the number and I noticed it was $1000 short. I would not have caught that bad the Bishop not brought it up. It talks about that on the church's website. An audit of personal and Church records. Reviewing your records of contributions helps you ensure they are correct. An important part of the Church’s audit procedures is to have individuals check whether their personal records match the Church’s and whether contributions were properly distributed in the categories selected on the donation slips. 1
Stargazer Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 15 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Looking for doctrinal requirements to go. Individual circumstances vary. This has nothing to with being anti tithing and was not implied in my question. I should add here that there is no scriptural mention of tithing settlement, per se. What the church has done to administer the law of tithing includes giving the member the opportunity to annually and formally declare that he or she is a full, part, or non-tithepayer. It's a lot like how a government legislature will pass a law governing automobiles, but the law itself does not include administrative details. This is frequently left up to the executive department responsible for administering the law in question, and the department will devise regulations that are then used to actually carry out the law in a hopefully effective way. You can see this happen in church governance, too. The Lord says pay your tithing, which is 10% of your increase. No details provided. So the church has to provide the administrative details, which will include how the law is to be implemented given current conditions. That's important, because does the bishop really want to receive that 10% in the form of 10 calves because that's 10% of the calves that were born that year? So, the church doesn't ask bishops to deal with "in-kind" tithing.
bsjkki Posted November 8, 2021 Author Posted November 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, bluebell said: It talks about that on the church's website. An audit of personal and Church records. Reviewing your records of contributions helps you ensure they are correct. An important part of the Church’s audit procedures is to have individuals check whether their personal records match the Church’s and whether contributions were properly distributed in the categories selected on the donation slips. This is now all online. 1
bsjkki Posted November 8, 2021 Author Posted November 8, 2021 Why can’t we just declare in an email? 3
Amulek Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 57 minutes ago, bsjkki said: My spouse has no desire to attend tithing settlement. In my experience, very few people actually desire to attend tithing settlement. Seriously, sometimes it can feel like pulling teeth to try and get even stalwart, active families to show up. Quote We answer to our tithing situation in temple recommend interviews. Why is tithing settlement necessary and is there any reason one must go in person? For me, it has always seemed a bit of a waste of time and more about the Bishop meeting with each family to issue a ward challenge. If tithing is really supposed to be one tenth of your income annually then it makes sense to me that there would be some kind of annual accounting as well. Also, my wife and I still have kids at home, so I think tithing settlement provides a good opportunity to teach them that paying tithes and offerings is something that is actually important to us (and to the Lord). I get that it can sometimes feel a bit like an unnecessary meeting - you know, like one of those 'meetings that should have been an email' kind of a meeting - but I've sat through a whole lot of dumber, longer, less useful meetings in my life. I figure I can swing 15 minutes once a year to check in with our bishop. 2
Fether Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Why can’t we just declare in an email? Tithing settlement is an opportunity for the bishop to minister. Tithing is an important commandment that has spiritual implications. The Bishop is responsible for the spiritual and temporal well being of the ward. Switching to an email system would be akin to moving into a new ward, and instead of getting a visit from the local leaders, you got an email saying “happy you are here, tell us if you need anything - Auxillary leaders of 3rd ward” Edited November 8, 2021 by Fether 1
bluebell Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, bsjkki said: This is now all online. True.
bluebell Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Why can’t we just declare in an email? As far as I know they don't make anyone go and there are no consequences for the person who chooses not to. Just don't go and email them instead. 3
CV75 Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 How about the time spent in tithing settlement and waiting in line be deducted from the total monetary donation as an "in kind" contribution? j/k Our bishop had refreshments out for everybody. Anyway, I think it is part of full transparency for the individual to formally report their attestation and contributions at regular intervals, annually being the most convenient. The temple recommend question is a matter of worthiness, and the settlement a matter of stewardship, two different applications of the same principle, the first being spiritual and the other being temporal, with the bishop's witness/judgement joining of the two. 2
Popular Post rchorse Posted November 8, 2021 Popular Post Posted November 8, 2021 I like tithing settlement. I like being able to meet with the bishop together with my family, and especially think it's good for my kids to meet with the bishop and take some personal accountability for their tithing. I've felt the spirit each time I've attended tithing settlement. 7
Calm Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 59 minutes ago, bluebell said: Having to stay after church or go back on a Sunday, still in sunday dress, to see the bishop for ten minutes and say "yes we are full tithe payers" is kind of annoying It could be divided equally through the quarters or even monthly to spread the load now one can check tithing amounts online for tax purposes,’ so no need to stack them all at the end of the year (as long as the Church is okay with calculating budget that way (the Bishop pulls up the database entries submitted throughout the year for the annual report). Then the appointment could be longer and could be used by the Bishop for a more in-depth interview, maybe discuss with the family their needs, goals for the year, callings difficulties, anything they feel the Bishop needs to hear as well as being used for temple recommends every other year. 2
bluebell Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 Just now, Calm said: It could be divided equally through the quarters or even monthly to spread the load now one can check tithing amounts online for tax purposes,’ so no need to stack them all at the end of the year (as long as the Church is okay with calculating budget that way (the Bishop pulls up the database entries submitted throughout the year for the annual report). Then the appointment could be longer and could be used by the Bishop for a more in-depth interview, maybe discuss with the family their needs, goals for the year, callings difficulties, anything they feel the Bishop needs to hear as well as being used for temple recommends every other year. That sounds much worse to me than 10 minutes, but yes, maybe that would be an option (though how accounting would work if everyone was on a different calendar schedule for reporting their tithing status, I don't know. )
Calm Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 56 minutes ago, Amulek said: I figure I can swing 15 minutes once a year to check in with our bishop. I think it is less the 15 minutes and more the prep and travel/wait time.
bluebell Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 Just now, Calm said: I think it is less the 15 minutes and more the prep and travel/wait time. This year our bishop is also doing them over zoom for those who want them, but not many people do. We chose to do in person instead of Zoom. Just goes to show how much people hate zoom, feeling like getting back into your church clothing and actually going to church in person is a better option.
Calm Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bluebell said: That sounds much worse to me than 10 minutes, but yes, maybe that would be an option (though how accounting would work if everyone was on a different calendar schedule for reporting their tithing status, I don't know. ) Hold it once a month for 1/12 of the families in the ward and have a ward party going on at the same time…pot luck or something one won’t mind being interrupted to go to the interview and then come back. (Once Covid is under control) Is the report the Bishop has to give a pass fail for paying tithing or does he have to provide an amount? I am imagining him inputting stuff all year and then just having the computer create a year end report to submit to SLC. Edited November 8, 2021 by Calm 1
Rain Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Fether said: There are many things in the church that we can complain about. The vast majority of these things are inconsequential. We need to be careful not to fulfill 2 Nephi 9:28 “When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.” Please don't make that assumption of those who question. Questions are not the same things as complaints though complaints sometimes come in question form. 1 hour ago, Fether said: What are we losing from going to tithing settlement? Is it harmful? Is 10 minutes spent with the Bishop to declare one’s self a full tithe payer once a year really worth the feeling one gets when they complain about it? 1 hour ago, Fether said: Is there some moral high ground found in complaining about tithing settlement? Does it feel good to be a part of the anti-tithing movement? Are we scared tithing settlement is the church’s way of shaking every last dime out of us? Do we not respect the authority of the bishop? Do we reject the claims of the church that is is the true church? What is it exactly that causes us to complain about little things like this? 4
bluebell Posted November 8, 2021 Posted November 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, Calm said: Hold it once a month for 1/12 of the families in the ward and have a ward party going on at the same time…pot luck or something one won’t mind being interrupted to go to the interview and then come back. Is the report the Bishop has to give a pass fail for paying tithing or does he have to provide an amount? I am imagining him inputting stuff all year and then just having the computer create a year end report to submit to SLC. As far as I know the bishop doesn't ever input anything with tithing.
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