Popular Post smac97 Posted August 31, 2021 Popular Post Posted August 31, 2021 Here: Quote ST. GEORGE, Utah (ABC4) – Police in southern Utah are investigating after a man allegedly started fires at multiple Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints churches and fleeing officers. At around 4 a.m. Tuesday morning, St. George Police say a fire alarm notification was activated at the LDS Church at 1295 S 3000 E. St. George Fire crews confirmed the building was ablaze and called in assistance from nearby fire agencies. A short time later, authorities say they received a call of a tree on fire at another nearby LDS Church on River Road and Rustic Drive. St. George Police say they began checking on other churches within the area for similar problems. One officer located a silver minivan parked at the LDS Church at 1762 S River Road and saw smoke rising from the building. A man was seen leaving the church, fleeing the area in the minivan at a high rate of speed. Officers tried to stop the vehicle, which fled. St. George Police say officers followed the van northbound on I-15 and requested assistance from neighboring agencies. The chase continued through Hurricane and toward Springdale. Officers spiked the vehicle twice before reaching Zion National Park. Once reaching the park, the vehicle crashed and started on fire. Authorities were able to take the unidentified man into custody. Authorities are now investigating fires at three LDS churches in St. George and are trying to determine if more churches have been vandalized. The church located on 3000 East was not equipped with a fire suppression system and sustained significant fire damage. The church on River Road suffered some fire and water damage while the location on Rustic Drive and River Road sustained fire damage to the landscaping. Wow. I am grateful nobody was injured. Still, arson against religious edifices is an ugly thing. Thanks, -Smac 7
Scott Lloyd Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 2 hours ago, smac97 said: Here: Wow. I am grateful nobody was injured. Still, arson against religious edifices is an ugly thing. Thanks, -Smac I’m glad they caught the (alleged) perp.
Popular Post The Nehor Posted August 31, 2021 Popular Post Posted August 31, 2021 I chuckled at the irony of him crashing and his car catching on fire. 6
bOObOO Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 He is in big trouble. We have insurance and a lot of money. I pity him and his situation in life.
mgy401 Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 He’ll get off with a slap on the wrist. He was, after all, “punching up”, as they say . . .
mfbukowski Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 3 hours ago, smac97 said: ST. GEORGE, Utah (ABC4) – Police in southern Utah are investigating after a man allegedly started fires at multiple Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints churches and fleeing officers. Wow! I am impressed! I can't imagine how he could catch those fleeing officers and start them on fire! The growing fleas on those officers probably slowed them down because of the constant stopping to scratch! 3
smac97 Posted August 31, 2021 Author Posted August 31, 2021 An update: Quote ST. GEORGE, Utah, Aug. 31, 2021 (Gephardt Daily) — A man is in custody after St. George police say he exited a burning building of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and fled the scene. The man, whose identity reportedly had not been confirmed at the time the SGPD statement was issued Tuesday morning, was found by police who driving around the area after they were called at 4 a.m. Monday to the scene of a fire at a LDS Church building at 1295 S. 3000 East. At the second location, 1762 S. River Road, officers saw a silver minivan parked outside, and smoke coming out of the building, the police statement says. “A male exited the church and left the area in the minivan at a high rate of speed,” it says. “Officers attempted to stop the vehicle. The driver fled from officers, and SGPD officers initiated a pursuit.” Officers followed the minivan northbound on Interstate 15, and contacted neighboring agencies for assistance. The pursuit continued through Hurricane and toward Springdale. “The suspect’s vehicle was spiked twice before reaching Zion National Park,” the police statement says. “After crossing into Zion National Park, the vehicle crashed and started on fire. A single adult male occupant excited the vehicle and was taken into custody.” “The suspect was taken into custody and transported to St. George Regional Hospital with minor injuries.” Officials are investigating fires at three LDS Church buildings, including one at River Road and Rustic Drive, the statement says. St. George is in Washington County. Washington County maintains a website listing bookings for the past five days: https://news.washeriff.net/divisions/corrections-division/bookings/ From that website: Quote JOHNSON, BENJAMIN J City/State: St George / UT PCF Number: 579815 Arrest Date: 09:45:17 08/31/21 Agency: St George Police Department IN CUSTODY ARSON-DAMAGE $5000 AND OVER ARSON-DAMAGE $5000 AND OVER ARSON-$500-$1500 AM ASSAULT-PROPEL BODILY SUBST-SALIVA AM EVADING-FLEE BY VEHICLE RECKLESS DRIVING DAMAGE JAIL Hmm... Thanks, -Smac
strappinglad Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: I can't imagine how he could catch those fleeing officers and start them on fire! We don't need no stinkin' punctuation 1
Scott Lloyd Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, strappinglad said: We don't need no stinkin' punctuation Could have fixed it by changing “fleeing” to fled.
mfbukowski Posted September 1, 2021 Posted September 1, 2021 19 hours ago, bOObOO said: He is in big trouble. We have insurance and a lot of money. I pity him and his situation in life. I like the "We" idea. Just glad I don't have to pay the premiums.
mfbukowski Posted September 1, 2021 Posted September 1, 2021 18 hours ago, strappinglad said: We don't need no stinkin' punctuation I drive my poor wife crazy because I tend to comment on every blip of ambiguity I hear on the news. It becomes a constant harangue. If you want examples of ambiguous statements, just turn on the news! On the other hand, if you want to remain a normal human, don't study Ordinary Language Philosophy. Or get a good stash of duct tape to put over your mouth. But actually duct tape can be part of a great weight loss program. It has also been shown to be an effective decay preventive device when used in a conscientiously applied program of oral hygiene and regular professional care. But there are better ways to trim a mustache Say a little prayer for my sweet wife. She has put up with this for 40 years. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted September 1, 2021 Posted September 1, 2021 22 hours ago, bOObOO said: He is in big trouble. We have insurance and a lot of money. I pity him and his situation in life. 2 hours ago, mfbukowski said: I like the "We" idea. Just glad I don't have to pay the premiums. Actually, I think the Church is self-insured. Which means no premiums. (I could be wrong on that, though.) I love the concept of self-insurance — and being financially stable enough for it to make sense. In a sense, I self-insure. I always turn down extended-warranty offers. I tell myself that I’m self-insuring on the item, assuming the risk myself and anticipating that the item won’t break during the extended warranty period. I’m almost always right and profit thereby. 1
smac97 Posted September 1, 2021 Author Posted September 1, 2021 An update: Quote ST. GEORGE, Utah, Sept. 1, 2021 (Gephardt Daily) — More details have been released after a man allegedly set three fires at churches in St. George, later telling police he was “a type of deity.” A probable cause statement from the 5th District Court of Washington County said Benjamin James Johnson, 36, is facing charges of: Two counts of arson, property of another, damages exceed $5,000 in value, a second-degree felony Failure to stop or respond at the command of police, a third-degree felony Damage jails, a third-degree felony Arson, damages between $500 and $1,500 in value, a class A misdemeanor Propelling a bodily substance, a class A misdemeanor Reckless driving, a class B misdemeanor So yeah, the "Benjamin J. Johnson" I referenced earlier appears to be the guy. Quote The suspect was then transported to the police department for questioning. “While at the St. George Police Department, the male was identified as Benjamin James Johnson,” the statement said. “The male kept calling himself ‘Joshua’ and told officers he was a type of deity. While speaking with detectives, Benjamin admitted to setting ‘three’ churches on fire. Benjamin described his behavior as ‘righteous anger.’ During the interview, Benjamin spit on one detective and damaged some property in the interview room he was in.” In a way, I am relieved. This guy appears to have some sort of mental condition. Arson against religious buildings based on mental impairment is, in my view, morally distinguishable from arson based on animus or ideological disagreement. Quote The LDS Church released the following statement: “We are saddened by the intentional damage that has occurred at three of our meetinghouses in St. George. Our church buildings are places of worship and community gathering where all are welcome. We’re fully cooperating with authorities as they conduct their investigation and inquiries about these incidents should be directed to them.” An even-keeled response. Thanks, -Smac 1
Calm Posted September 1, 2021 Posted September 1, 2021 50 minutes ago, smac97 said: Propelling a bodily substance, a class A misdemeanor I am not sure I want to know what this means.
smac97 Posted September 1, 2021 Author Posted September 1, 2021 17 minutes ago, Calm said: I am not sure I want to know what this means. Per the news item, he spat on one of the police officers while in custody. Thanks, -Smac 1
Calm Posted September 1, 2021 Posted September 1, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, smac97 said: Per the news item, he spat on one of the police officers while in custody. Thanks, -Smac That is better than what I was assuming. I guess I thought euphemisms/technical language would be reserved for the more extreme stuff because lawyers and such would be too embarrassed to say poop out loud in court when reading or arguing charges. Edited September 1, 2021 by Calm 1
provoman Posted September 1, 2021 Posted September 1, 2021 1 hour ago, smac97 said: In a way, I am relieved. This guy appears to have some sort of mental condition. Arson against religious buildings based on mental impairment is, in my view, morally distinguishable from arson based on animus or ideological disagreement. Thanks, -Smac I agree, and with that distinction in mind, it will be interesting if hate crime charges are sought.
The Nehor Posted September 2, 2021 Posted September 2, 2021 11 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Or get a good stash of duct tape to put over your mouth. But actually duct tape can be part of a great weight loss program. It has also been shown to be an effective decay preventive device when used in a conscientiously applied program of oral hygiene and regular professional care. A friend got me a shirt like this. I took the hint. Well, I took it and did nothing with it. To be fair to her it was in retaliation for the one I got her that had her catchphrase on it: “Shut up! I hate you!” 2
mfbukowski Posted September 2, 2021 Posted September 2, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Actually, I think the Church is self-insured. Which means no premiums. (I could be wrong on that, though.) I love the concept of self-insurance — and being financially stable enough for it to make sense. In a sense, I self-insure. I always turn down extended-warranty offers. I tell myself that I’m self-insuring on the item, assuming the risk myself and anticipating that the item won’t break during the extended warranty period. I’m almost always right and profit thereby. Yes I agree actually. I wasn't thinking. Booboo actually confused my response, bragging that "We have lots of insurance" and I just went down that road without thinking. You can at least partially self-insure by picking a high deductible. Most people don't think it through- the whole point of being in the insurance business and why it is SO profitable is that they KNOW - as virtually a statistical certainty- that they will win and take in more bucks than they pay out. That means there are overwhelming odds that you will NEVER need the insurance you are buying, and that's VERY close to a certainty! After all on rare occasions, insurance companies DO fold but often they themselves carry insurance covering that possibility! It's essentially like owning a gambling casino. Do they ever lose? Insurance is always just for situations you could never manage to pay off yourself if you lose. I make a point of making my deductibles as high as I can, right at the point that would make me seriously financially concerned if I lost out on the odds of not needing the insurance in the first place But sometimes it works the other way. I was involved in a situation once where there was a large scale natural disaster, to the point that the insurance companies were afraid of losing their shirts on payouts. They were actually cutting their costs on paperwork processing by limiting the payouts to a flat fee if your loss was within certain parameters- they would just write you a check on the spot after they confirmed the type of damage fit the requirements. So those who had relatively minor damage in that narrow category would profit, because the insurance company calcuated that the amount of damage probably would be much higher, and they would end out on top anyway- or with miminized losses. But how could they do that? I had a contract that said they would pay to have my property loss covered, and here they were potentially limiting my coverage, apparently arbitrarily simply because it was likely that they would take a loss!!! How could they do that? Of course I called them! They pointed out that in the fine print in some subsection on page 12 etc that there was a loophole that said that in certain situations they could do that! These dudes had been in the business a LONG time- one of the most reliable and BIG companies and had seen everything a million times before, and had tailored their contracts for virtually ANY situation that had ever happened! So I took the check and then found out that I could get it fixed for less than the payout! I beat the big insurance company!! Yes I paid tithing on the "profit". Edited September 2, 2021 by mfbukowski 1
Chum Posted September 2, 2021 Posted September 2, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 3:03 PM, bOObOO said: He is in big trouble. We have insurance and a lot of money. I pity him and his situation in life. Yeah I was just thinking I was glad it happened to us and not a poor congregation. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted September 2, 2021 Posted September 2, 2021 4 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Yes I agree actually. I wasn't thinking. Booboo actually confused my response, bragging that "We have lots of insurance" and I just went down that road without thinking. You can at least partially self-insure by picking a high deductible. Most people don't think it through- the whole point of being in the insurance business and why it is SO profitable is that they KNOW - as virtually a statistical certainty- that they will win and take in more bucks than they pay out. That means there are overwhelming odds that you will NEVER need the insurance you are buying, and that's VERY close to a certainty! After all on rare occasions, insurance companies DO fold but often they themselves carry insurance covering that possibility! It's essentially like owning a gambling casino. Do they ever lose? Insurance is always just for situations you could never manage to pay off yourself if you lose. I make a point of making my deductibles as high as I can, right at the point that would make me seriously financially concerned if I lost out on the odds of not needing the insurance in the first place But sometimes it works the other way. I was involved in a situation once where there was a large scale natural disaster, to the point that the insurance companies were afraid of losing their shirts on payouts. They were actually cutting their costs on paperwork processing by limiting the payouts to a flat fee if your loss was within certain parameters- they would just write you a check on the spot after they confirmed the type of damage fit the requirements. So those who had relatively minor damage in that narrow category would profit, because the insurance company calcuated that the amount of damage probably would be much higher, and they would end out on top anyway- or with miminized losses. But how could they do that? I had a contract that said they would pay to have my property loss covered, and here they were potentially limiting my coverage, apparently arbitrarily simply because it was likely that they would take a loss!!! How could they do that? Of course I called them! They pointed out that in the fine print in some subsection on page 12 etc that there was a loophole that said that in certain situations they could do that! These dudes had been in the business a LONG time- one of the most reliable and BIG companies and had seen everything a million times before, and had tailored their contracts for virtually ANY situation that had ever happened! So I took the check and then found out that I could get it fixed for less than the payout! I beat the big insurance company!! Yes I paid tithing on the "profit". Good advice, this. One way I plan to self-insure is to achieve a state of financial freedom — through pension, life savings, investments, etc. — to the point I can let my life insurance expire, confident that my dependents would be provided for should I pass. The resultant savings in premiums would enhance that state of financial freedom.
Robert F. Smith Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 On 8/31/2021 at 9:58 AM, smac97 said: ...........Wow. I am grateful nobody was injured. Still, arson against religious edifices is an ugly thing................... This is only the latest in a spate of attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_Latter-day_Saint_churches
Chum Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 42 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: This is only the latest in a spate of attacks: I think the actual trend here is mental illness Quote St. George Police say Johnson kept calling himself “Joshua” while at the police department, saying he was a type of deity. While speaking with detectives, Johnson admitted to setting three churches on fire and described his behavior as “righteous anger,” according to arresting documents. Officers have also accused Johnson of spitting on a detective and damaging some property in the interview room.
Scott Lloyd Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 On 9/1/2021 at 9:13 PM, Chum said: Yeah I was just thinking I was glad it happened to us and not a poor congregation. I’ve been pondering this comment off and on for days. I suppose it makes me uncomfortable because, wittingly or not, it tends to feed into the all-too-common mindset that the Church of Jesus Christ is the Church of Deep Pockets of Latter-day Saints. Regardless of the Church’s relative ability or capacity to sustain or absorb it, I don’t think we can allow ourselves to become casual or cavalier regarding the loss or forced deprivation of resources from the Savior’s church. 1
smac97 Posted September 3, 2021 Author Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: This is only the latest in a spate of attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_Latter-day_Saint_churches Thanks for this. I did not know there was a list on Wikipedia. I've been keeping track of incidents of arson and other incidents in our facilities. I edited the above list to include an additional nine: · 1986 October 23 Clarence Leake took two hostages inside the Washington D.C. Temple in Kensington, Maryland during a 12-hour standoff with police. · 2005 February 27 A meetinghouse in Rose, Idaho was burned by arsonists who piled up charred furniture at the front entrance and set the structure afire. · 2012 June 29 A fire that destroyed a 50-year-old LDS meetinghouse in Tolleson, Arizona was confirmed to be the work of an arsonist. · 2021 January 17 Randy Louis White, 35, of Sacramento admitted to breaking the window of a meetinghouse in Willows, California, entering the building and purposely starting fire to the building. · 2019 July 21 Two seminary buildings in Herriman, Utah were vandalized with racist graffiti. · 2019 August 12 An intentional fire in a meetinghouse in Layton, Utah. · 2020 January 9 Joshua Adams Hale pled guilty to willfully and maliciously set fire to and burned the chapel of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Cherry Creek, South Dakota. · 2020 May 26 Honolulu police launched an arson investigation involving an early morning church fire in Kalaeloa, Hawaii that investigators determined was intentionally set. · 2020 September 7 A meetinghouse in Eagle Mountain, Utah was vandalized and partially burned. Here's the complete list: Quote 20th century[edit] 1986 October 23 Clarence Leake took two hostages inside the Washington D.C. Temple in Kensington, Maryland during a 12-hour standoff with police. [1] 1988 January 16 A Latter-day Saint meetinghouse in Marion, Utah was bombed. [2] 21st century[edit] 2006-2018[edit] 2005 February 27 A meetinghouse in Rose, Idaho was burned by arsonists who piled up charred furniture at the front entrance and set the structure afire. [3] 2006 July 28 A meetinghouse in Springville, Utah was burned in an act of arson. [4] 2007 November 19 A meetinghouse in Mesa, Arizona was burned. [5][6] 2010 October 17 A meetinghouse in Mukilteo, Washington was burned. [7] 2011 December 16 A meetinghouse in Santaquin, Utah was burned. [8] 2012 June 29 A fire that destroyed a 50-year-old LDS meetinghouse in Tolleson, Arizona was confirmed to be the work of an arsonist. [9] 2012 September 25 A meetinghouse in Spokane, Washington was burned in an act of arson. [10] 2013 May 13 A meetinghouse in Magna, Utah was burned in an act of arson. [11] 2016 April 9 A meetinghouse in Vancouver, Washington was burned and vandalized. [12] 2016 July 26 A meetinghouse in Las Vegas, Nevada was burned in an act of arson. A firefighter's union hall across the street was also targeted. [13] 2017 March 1 A meetinghouse in the Van Nuys neighborhood of Los Angeles, California was heavily damaged by fire, and investigation could not determine the cause. [14] 2018 December 2 Five people were injured in a mass knife attack at a meetinghouse in Goiânia, Brazil. [15] 2018 December 4 A couch was set on fire in an attempt to burn down a meetinghouse in Fort Collins, Colorado. [16] 2019[edit] 2019 January 26 A meetinghouse in St. George, Utah was burned down in an act of arson. An Episcopal church was also targeted. [17] 2019 March 13 Two meetinghouses in Greymouth, New Zealand and Christchurch, New Zealand were burned in acts of arson. [18][19] 2019 March 29 Two meetinghouses in Orem, Utah were burned and defaced with the words "Satan Lives".[20] 2019 June 1 A meetinghouse in Farmington, New Mexico was burned in an act of arson. [21] [22] 2019 June 28 A meetinghouse in Ogden, Utah was burned in an act of arson. [23][24][25] 2019 July 14 A meetinghouse in Cottonwood Heights, Utah was burned in an act of arson. [26][27] 2019 July 21 Two seminary buildings in Herriman, Utah were vandalized with racist graffiti. [28] 2019 August 12 An intentional fire in a meetinghouse in Layton, Utah. [29] 2019 August 16 A meetinghouse in Logandale, Nevada was targeted in an act of attempted arson. [30] 2020-2021[edit] 2020 January 9 Joshua Adams Hale pled guilty to willfully and maliciously set fire to and burned the chapel of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Cherry Creek, South Dakota. [31] 2020 May 26 Honolulu police launched an arson investigation involving an early morning church fire in Kalaeloa, Hawaii that investigators determined was intentionally set. [32] 2020 September 7 A meetinghouse in Eagle Mountain, Utah was vandalized and partially burned. [33] 2021 January 17 Randy Louis White, 35, of Sacramento admitted to breaking the window of a meetinghouse in Willows, California, entering the building and purposely starting fire to the building. [34] 2021 April 18 A meetinghouse in Cape Girardeau, Missouri was burned down in an act of arson. [35][36][37] 2021 August 31 Three meetinghouses in St George, Utah were damaged in acts of arson. [38][39][40][41][42] Thanks, -Smac 1
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