Chum Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 46 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Regardless of the Church’s relative ability or capacity to sustain or absorb it, I don’t think we can allow ourselves to become casual or cavalier regarding the loss or forced deprivation of resources from the Savior’s church. I'm a fan of just fixing the damage - instead of looking for patterns, investing resources into patterns, walking back the screwups that follow being fixated over patterns and then just fixing the damage anyway.
smac97 Posted September 3, 2021 Author Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Chum said: I think the actual trend here is mental illness Yes, I think that's part of the trend certainly. The young woman who torched to church buildings in Orem in March 2019: Quote According to court documents, police responded to reports of a fire at an LDS church at around 2 A.M. last Friday. The officers noticed a broken glass door leading into the chapel, and saw several small blazes in the facility, which they put out with a fire extinguisher. The arrest affidavit also notes that someone had scrawled “Satan Lives” with a black marker on the chapel wall. While checking other LDS buildings in the area as a precaution, officers discovered a woman on the sidewalk outside a Mormon meeting house, where, above the doorjamb, someone had again written, “Satan Lives.” The police said it appeared that a fire had been attempted at the second site as well. The police stated that the woman was holding a backpack containing a water bottle filled with gasoline, a power drill, a lighter, matches, and a black Sharpie marker. After running her license plate, officers identified the woman as Jillian Robinson. Initially, Robinson denied any involvement with the fires. Later, however, she wrote in a voluntary witness statement: “I acted alone in the fire that was started at the church on 1200 North. I was angry and all wanted to do was set a small fire and it got out of control. I fled the scene and didn't look back. I felt like playing with fire because of my crazy life at home, this was not a hate crime.” Sadly, she died a few months later (July 1). See here and here. Mental illness. Substance abuse. Unstable life at home. The last of these factors appears to have contributed to this young woman defacing and burning two church buildings. I hope her family is recovering. Thanks, -Smac 1
Kenngo1969 Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 On 9/1/2021 at 2:32 PM, smac97 said: [Listing the offenses with which Mr. Johnson was charged] ... Propelling a bodily substance, a class A misdemeanor ... On 9/1/2021 at 3:23 PM, Calm said: I am not sure I want to know what this means. On 9/1/2021 at 3:41 PM, smac97 said: Per the news item, he spat on one of the police officers while in custody. Thanks, -Smac On 9/1/2021 at 3:41 PM, Calm said: That is better than what I was assuming. I guess I thought euphemisms/technical language would be reserved for the more extreme stuff because lawyers and such would be too embarrassed to say poop out loud in court when reading or arguing charges. Utah Criminal Code Title 76, Chapter 5, Section 102.9. And yes, it could, depending on the circumstances, include some of the other things you were "@$$uming." Jails and prisons can be not-so-nice places, unfortunately. Of course, that happens, because not-so-nice people tend to "congregate" there. Sometimes, in their animus, they will use whatever is at their disposal, including not-so-nice things ... to lash out. So much for food fights in the chow line!
Chum Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Of course, that happens, because not-so-nice people tend to "congregate" there. Like prison guards. More common are folks with mental health issues - who you label here as "not-so-nice people". Equally awesome: How congregate makes it sound like mentally ill folks set out to be in prison. suggested reading Edited September 3, 2021 by Chum
Kenngo1969 Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 21 minutes ago, Chum said: Like prison guards. More common are folks with mental health issues - who you label here as "not-so-nice people". Equally awesome: How congregate makes it sound like mentally ill folks set out to be in prison. suggested reading Your indignation and invective are wasted. In no way was I referring to people with mental health issues. But, if you must have a target, and since it doesn't appear to matter who it is, I suppose I serve that purpose as well as anyone else. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Chum said: I think the actual trend here is mental illness Yes. In Aug 1969, the Christian Michael D. Rohan set fire to Al Aqsa Mosque. He was tried, found insane, and placed in a mental institution. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I’ve been pondering this comment off and on for days. I suppose it makes me uncomfortable because, wittingly or not, it tends to feed into the all-too-common mindset that the Church of Jesus Christ is the Church of Deep Pockets of Latter-day Saints. Regardless of the Church’s relative ability or capacity to sustain or absorb it, I don’t think we can allow ourselves to become casual or cavalier regarding the loss or forced deprivation of resources from the Savior’s church. When I was much younger, I used to think that the true church should expect lots of persecution. I thought that, as with the Jews, it just goes along with being the people of God. 1
Chum Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 19 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Your indignation and invective are wasted. Not at all. I treasure my indignation and invest it with great care. 20 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: In no way was I referring to people with mental health issues. A ginormous percentage of incarcerated folks have mental health issues. Excluding MI after the fact is like saying "I wasn't referring to men in prison" or "I wasn't referring to inmates with tattoos!!!". 25 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: But, if you must have a target, and since it doesn't appear to matter who it is, I suppose I serve that purpose as well as anyone else. Awwwwww - I feel sad for you! Now I want to go drive in traffic. Thanks for that.
bOObOO Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 On 9/1/2021 at 8:06 PM, mfbukowski said: Yes I agree actually. I wasn't thinking. Booboo actually confused my response, bragging that "We have lots of insurance" and I just went down that road without thinking What I said about us was "We have insurance and a lot of money". Which we do, both individually and collectively. Even if we have more insurance individually than we do collectively, as the Church. Good point about the Church maybe not having insurance collectively though. We can avoid needing to have insurance individually too if we have enough money set aside to cover our liabilities, but most of us don't and have insurance instead. I also think having a high deductible is a good strategy too, if we don't have enough money to cover our own liabilities and losses. Either way though it is good that we have both insurance and a lot of money, whether individually or collectively. Not bragging. Just stating some facts, some obvious truths. The guy mentioned in the OP is in big trouble, and we do have insurance and a lot of money. And I still pity his situation in life.
Kenngo1969 Posted September 4, 2021 Posted September 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Chum said: Not at all. I treasure my indignation and invest it with great care. A ginormous percentage of incarcerated folks have mental health issues. Excluding MI after the fact is like saying "I wasn't referring to men in prison" or "I wasn't referring to inmates with tattoos!!!". Awwwwww - I feel sad for you! Now I want to go drive in traffic. Thanks for that. I'm not taking the bait. Have a good evening.
Chum Posted September 4, 2021 Posted September 4, 2021 15 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: I'm not taking the bait. Have a good evening. You'll be back.
Scott Lloyd Posted September 5, 2021 Posted September 5, 2021 On 9/3/2021 at 2:16 PM, Kenngo1969 said: Your indignation and invective are wasted. In no way was I referring to people with mental health issues. But, if you must have a target, and since it doesn't appear to matter who it is, I suppose I serve that purpose as well as anyone else. I didn’t say anything about mental illness in my post either. I think Chum is on a crusade. 1
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