Jump to content

Captain moroni arrested


Recommended Posts

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/roman-gladiator-costume-capitol-riot-trump-fbi_n_60f08b8ae4b022142cf67b8b

Since it's always entertaining to discuss members behaving badly here, I thought I'd post this about my favorite Capitol rioter from Jan 6th.  I was disappointed he isn't local - he drove here from Arizona.

The FBI affidavit doesn't exactly paint him as a dangerous individual.  They included an explanation of the origins of his costume along with verses from the Book of Mormon.  We have lots of church members in the FBI here so I'm guessing they found one to write that section since the author seemed to understand those verses.

Although he has a bit of a potty mouth, Nathan is pretty funny in some of his quotes.   He chants that he wants some of Nancy Pelosi's ice cream that she mentioned on the Late Late Show.  Another example:

ENTREKIN: [chanting to the crowd’s rhythm of U-S-A] No more Taco Bell. I’m too fat. Hahaha. 

Of course, he's being mercilessly mocked online for his weight, his religion, and for living at home with his mom.  He was dubbed "Caesar No Salad" by the people who tracked him down.  The article says he wore a Roman gladiator costume, but did correctly explain that he was portraying Captain Moroni from the Book of Mormon.

Although I don't agree with his actions, I always appreciate people with a sense of humor.

Link to comment

This is why I roll my eyes whenever I hear this bunch of clowns being given credit for an "insurrection." Let's go take down the Capitol, overturn the government and destroy the military after we overwhelm the police this afternoon without weapons, and then meet for dinner!"  "Cool! What costume should I wear?"

Link to comment
1 hour ago, juliann said:

This is why I roll my eyes whenever I hear this bunch of clowns being given credit for an "insurrection." Let's go take down the Capitol, overturn the government and destroy the military after we overwhelm the police this afternoon without weapons, and then meet for dinner!"  "Cool! What costume should I wear?"

There were indeed weapons, and items used as weapons. ETA: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/15/ron-johnson/yes-jan-6-capitol-assault-was-armed-insurrection/

Out of my allotted posts, so will have to edit this post in order to respond any more until tomorrow. 

Edited by Tacenda
Link to comment

I never know what to believe about all this. I still remember the media getting all freaked out about a high school student smiling awkwardly while some guy beat a drum and chanted in his face. All the news organizations just started spouting garbage, the kid was vilified in the national media, and it turned out circumstances were otherwise than what was reported. With some commentators from those organizations who continue to talk smack about the young man, even after their own news organizations settled the defamation lawsuits that were eventually brought. 

And Politifact is not the unbiased and disinterested organization they like to claim they are.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

There were indeed weapons, and items used as weapons. ETA: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/15/ron-johnson/yes-jan-6-capitol-assault-was-armed-insurrection/

Out of my allotted posts, so will have to edit this post in order to respond any more until tomorrow. 

My purpose wasn't to debate the Jan 6th incident.  But this guy doesn't exactly strike fear in my heart.  He seems like a funny, huggable dude that got seriously carried away.   He also claims to be a member of the church.  Thanks to him the readers of the HuffPost may have learned something new about the Book of Mormon.  I doubt Nathan will ever be called as a mission president, but got to give him some credit for his missionary efforts.

Link to comment
23 hours ago, Tacenda said:

There were indeed weapons, and items used as weapons. ETA: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/feb/15/ron-johnson/yes-jan-6-capitol-assault-was-armed-insurrection/

Out of my allotted posts, so will have to edit this post in order to respond any more until tomorrow. 

Oh for heaven's sakes. Even the article had to admit any actual weapons were on some people outside of the capitol, not those "insurrecting." Do people normally take down governments with flagpoles and fire extinguishers they find on the premises, Tacenda? Can you give some documentation of this from all the worldwide coups? There should be plenty! We now have some comparing this rodeo that lasted a few hours to 9/11. How insulting. 

These were fools who deserve to go to prison. But elevating dopes who live with their mom and wear clown costumes into a military threat is comical. The serious threat to us, anyway,  is that we have these kinds of people in the church. This is what excommunication should be made for.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, juliann said:

Oh for heaven's sakes. Even the article had to admit any actual weapons were on some people outside of the capitol, not those "insurrecting." Do people normally take down governments with flagpoles and fire extinguishers they find on the premises, Tacenda? Can you give some documentation of this from all the worldwide coups? There should be plenty! We now have some comparing this rodeo that lasted a few hours to 9/11. How insulting. 

These were fools who deserve to go to prison. But elevating dopes who live with their mom and wear clown costumes into a military threat is comical. The serious threat to us, anyway,  is that we have these kinds of people in the church. This is what excommunication should be made for.

That's funny that you mention 9/11. I felt the same way I did when I watched the planes going into the twin towers. I guess watching these people attempting to kill Pence or Nancy or ? bothered me, along with our country no longer being able to vote our conscience w/o the president saying it's all a lie, and still does it to this day, the ex president. So our country stands in the balance and not sure what will happen to our future elections, it could be worse than 9/11 IMO. 

The Moroni guy doesn't bother me, and those that walked into the capital w/o malice doesn't either, they were like sheep following the crowd. But I do have a problem with people believing lies and propagating the lies, that will take all our freedoms. 

ETA: This is what I posted on January 6th on FB as a matter of fact! It's insulting to me that you're saying my feelings are wrong. Or how it insults people. I can't help the feeling I have but it's there. It's not everyday you see fellow Americans storming the capital. I even made a trip to see the capital fairly recently. There's a photo I took of the capital last month I'll try to download from my pictures. 

May be an image of text that says 'Remember that feeling you got when the second plane hit the twin towers and you realized what was going on? You should have that same feeling again right now.'

Edited by Tacenda
Link to comment
8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

guess watching these people attempting to kill Pence or Nancy or ? bothered me,

Considering how close they came in a couple of places, if they had been as determined as the 9/11 terrorists…I believe there would have been many more dead rather than many just bragging they stole something from a desk or were taking selfies.   I suppose one could say planes were ‘found’ weapons, but storming the capital personally versus sending a plane into it…it feels very different to me. If there had been more police on hand, they would not have managed what they did. An extra line of police would have just added more bodies to an attack like 9/11.
 

They should be in jail and some for a long time and I would love to see them sued for damages by any police officer injured or for damage to public property or even the costs of security forces, but watching a skyline change, planes plunge into buildings, thousands dead including children…very different feeling for me. 
 

My feeling for the riot was more disgust, the feeling with 9/11 was more despair. 

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Calm said:

Considering how close they came in a couple of places, if they had been as determined as the 9/11 terrorists…I believe there would have been many more dead rather than many just bragging they stole something from a desk or were taking selfies.   I suppose one could say planes were ‘found’ weapons, but storming the capital personally versus sending a plane into it…it feels very different to me. If there had been more police on hand, they would not have managed what they did. An extra line of police would have just added more bodies to an attack like 9/11.
 

They should be in jail and some for a long time and I would love to see them sued for damages by any police officer injured or for damage to public property or even the costs of security forces, but watching a skyline change, planes plunge into buildings, thousands dead including children…very different feeling for me. 
 

My feeling for the riot was more disgust, the feeling with 9/11 was more despair. 

I know that there were significant differences, it was just the feeling that was the same. Something that just didn't seem real at first. Although, I shouldn't have been so caught off guard especially when I read a post shortly before that my nephew in California commented to someone on FB that there was going to be a civil war, and he was and still is all for it. That scared/scares me too. Losing our democracy scares me, and it's what probably the Russians and other enemies of the US want for us. To see the country so divided enough to make us become like other countries when trying to vote in good people to run the country and then that failing and we are subject to evil dictators. I put that at the level of 9/11. 

Link to comment

https://radiowest.kuer.org/post/do-conspiracy-theories-thrive-religious-groups

Pretty scary.

In May, a Public Religion Research Institute survey found that nearly one in five members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes in QAnon — placing them just about in the middle of the Christian denominations polled. 

Scholar Matthew Harris traces conspiracy beliefs among LDS church members back to the influence of church president Ezra Taft Benson (1985-1994), who was convinced that Communism was running rampant through the American government. His political leanings influenced his religious rhetoric, which found a home in LDS teachings and beliefs. But what accounts for the quarter of white evangelicals who the PRRI survey found also subscribe to the QAnon conspiracy? As with LDS church members, the answers are complicated. To help us untangle the relationship between religious conviction and conspiracy theories, we’ll talk this Friday at noon with Harris, Idaho Statesman reporter Jacob Scholl, political scientist Quin Monson and Rev. Derek Kubilus, who has made it his mission to persuade members of his Methodist congregation to let go of conspiracy theories. 

GUESTS

  • Dr. Matt L. Harris, professor of history at Colorado State University-Pueblo. His most recent book is Watchman on the Tower: Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the Mormon Right. [Bookshop | Amazon]
  • Rev. Derek Kubilus, Victor at Uniontown United Methodist Church in Uniontown, Ohio
  • Jacob Scholl, reporter for th
Edited by Tacenda
Link to comment
39 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Something that just didn't seem real at first.

That is very understandable. Both were one of a kind images for Americans and hopefully they will stay that way. 

Link to comment
44 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

what probably the Russians and other enemies of the US want for us

Russians in general at least in the 90s were not enemies of Americans. Most were fascinated and wanted to be friendly with us in my experience. Some did see us that way, had one woman refuse to serve us in a shop. 
 

While I don’t doubt there are some countries where the individual on the street will say they hate America, I think it better to think in terms of governments wanting to undermine another government for power than we are enemies. 

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
9 hours ago, Calm said:

Russians in general at least in the 90s were not enemies of Americans. Most were fascinated and wanted to be friendly with us in my experience. Some did see us that way, had one woman refuse to serve us in a shop. 
 

While I don’t doubt there are some countries where the individual on the street will say they hate America, I think it better to think in terms of governments wanting to undermine another government for power than we are enemies. 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/14/russia-us-politics-social-media-facebook

I believe they are an enemy when their motive is to divide Americans against each other because it weakens our country.

Link to comment
4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/14/russia-us-politics-social-media-facebook

I believe they are an enemy when their motive is to divide Americans against each other because it weakens our country.

Russian government and power people, the hackers who make money off of attacking the US, the majority of them most likely…  The man or woman on the street….I have my doubts.  Depends on how much their media or government has managed to convince them we are the bad guys.

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
22 hours ago, Tacenda said:

That's funny that you mention 9/11. I felt the same way I did when I watched the planes going into the twin towers. I guess watching these people attempting to kill Pence or Nancy or ? bothered me, along with our country no longer being able to vote our conscience w/o the president saying it's all a lie, and still does it to this day, the ex president. So our country stands in the balance and not sure what will happen to our future elections, it could be worse than 9/11 IMO. 

The Moroni guy doesn't bother me, and those that walked into the capital w/o malice doesn't either, they were like sheep following the crowd. But I do have a problem with people believing lies and propagating the lies, that will take all our freedoms. 

ETA: This is what I posted on January 6th on FB as a matter of fact! It's insulting to me that you're saying my feelings are wrong. Or how it insults people. I can't help the feeling I have but it's there. It's not everyday you see fellow Americans storming the capital. I even made a trip to see the capital fairly recently. There's a photo I took of the capital last month I'll try to download from my pictures. 

May be an image of text that says 'Remember that feeling you got when the second plane hit the twin towers and you realized what was going on? You should have that same feeling again right now.'

Yikes!  I'd advise against trying to make any comparisons between 9/11 and Jan 6th.  It's like comparing mask mandates with the Holocaust or comparing anyone you disagree with to Hitler.  Sorry you feel so much angst, but I think the lack of support for the Jan 6th rioters by the general public and the increased scrutiny of these groups by the FBI makes me much less worried.  Hope they enjoy having all their online communications monitored for the rest of their lives.  Plus, no longer will their online threats be treated as idle threats.

I was here for both 9/11 and Jan 6th.  There was a completely different feeling after 9/11.  DC actually came together for a while  (until election season came around and everything went back to normal).  After Jan 6th, we've seen the contempt both sides have for each other.  Hopefully it will cool off.

 

Link to comment
On 7/17/2021 at 2:38 PM, Tacenda said:

That's funny that you mention 9/11. I felt the same way I did when I watched the planes going into the twin towers. I guess watching these people attempting to kill Pence or Nancy or ? bothered me, along with our country no longer being able to vote our conscience w/o the president saying it's all a lie, and still does it to this day, the ex president. So our country stands in the balance and not sure what will happen to our future elections, it could be worse than 9/11 IMO. 

The Moroni guy doesn't bother me, and those that walked into the capital w/o malice doesn't either, they were like sheep following the crowd. But I do have a problem with people believing lies and propagating the lies, that will take all our freedoms. 

ETA: This is what I posted on January 6th on FB as a matter of fact! It's insulting to me that you're saying my feelings are wrong. Or how it insults people. I can't help the feeling I have but it's there. It's not everyday you see fellow Americans storming the capital. I even made a trip to see the capital fairly recently. There's a photo I took of the capital last month I'll try to download from my pictures. 

May be an image of text that says 'Remember that feeling you got when the second plane hit the twin towers and you realized what was going on? You should have that same feeling again right now.'

It’s okay to have your feelings about something but it’s also okay for others to not validate those feelings. 
 

I was appalled when the protesters broke police lines and were violent. I thought ‘where is the security. This is awful that a protest can breach the Capitol.’

When Trump had to bunker at the ‘White House because of riots, those lines were enforced immediately and it was a very violent crowd. Many Capitol police were injured. Riot shields and a combo of secret service and police. 
 

I was appalled when Minneapolis burned. 

 IMO, Comparing  this to 9/11 isn’t intellectually honest. No one died from injuries inflicted by rioters. One person died by cop. I really want all the video tape released. Those that attacked police or broke through barriers, should be charged accordingly. Those that wandered in and committed misdemeanors should be treated the same as other misdemeanor protesters in DC. They usually pay a fine and are released. 
 

From the riots at inauguration in 2016, except for those who pled guilty, all charges were dropped.  

 

Edited by bsjkki
Link to comment
On 7/16/2021 at 12:25 PM, juliann said:

This is why I roll my eyes whenever I hear this bunch of clowns being given credit for an "insurrection." Let's go take down the Capitol, overturn the government and destroy the military after we overwhelm the police this afternoon without weapons, and then meet for dinner!"  "Cool! What costume should I wear?"

I think you would be amazed at how childish and silly many revolutions and coups are. Look at Hitler's first coup attempt. It was laughably stupid. They let the plotters off easy and look what happened.

A march on the capitol led to Mussolini taking power.

Look at the May 15 incident in Japan that was a singularly inept and dumb coup. Treating it lightly and letting the perpetrators off easy is why later coups succeeded the relatively progressive (for the era) Japan of the 1920's turned into the ultranationalist state of the 1930's that led to Japanese imperialism and Pearl Harbor and all that followed.

Here is a writer from Sri Lanka who lived through a "stupid coup".

https://www.pri.org/stories/2021-01-08/even-if-coup-fails-it-still-damages-your-government-what-us-can-learn-sri-lankas

Stupid coups are still coups. They damage the government. They are treated lightly at the nation's peril. If they are treated as childish antics the antics increase and it is likely that eventually they will succeed. Then you get to feel even more like a idiot when you are successfully couped by people who are supposedly idiots. Who is the bigger idiot?

Link to comment
15 hours ago, Calm said:

Russians in general at least in the 90s were not enemies of Americans. Most were fascinated and wanted to be friendly with us in my experience. Some did see us that way, had one woman refuse to serve us in a shop. 
 

While I don’t doubt there are some countries where the individual on the street will say they hate America, I think it better to think in terms of governments wanting to undermine another government for power than we are enemies. 

Russia has changed since the era where they lined up to eat McDonald's for the first time. Russia is playing us very well. Making the US out to be fools led by fools is part of the game plan. We have commentators here that are repeating the same sentiments and disinformation that are coming from Russian 'news' sources. We have tasted authoritarianism and too many of us LIKE IT.

Link to comment
On 7/17/2021 at 1:12 PM, juliann said:

Oh for heaven's sakes. Even the article had to admit any actual weapons were on some people outside of the capitol, not those "insurrecting." Do people normally take down governments with flagpoles and fire extinguishers they find on the premises, Tacenda? Can you give some documentation of this from all the worldwide coups? There should be plenty! We now have some comparing this rodeo that lasted a few hours to 9/11. How insulting. 

These were fools who deserve to go to prison. But elevating dopes who live with their mom and wear clown costumes into a military threat is comical. The serious threat to us, anyway,  is that we have these kinds of people in the church. This is what excommunication should be made for.

Governments do not fall primarily due to how armed people are. They are not a military threat. They are an existential political threat. They are morons but they are morons backed by morons with power and morons who think they can be exploited. The lack of opposition to all these morons is why our nation is in danger. We have little loyalty to the ideals of the nation and the mechanisms that check power and a lot of loyalty to power itself.

Link to comment
6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I believe they are an enemy when their motive is to divide Americans against each other

I could go with this description of our major political parties.

Link to comment
14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

We have tasted authoritarianism and too many of us LIKE IT.

Press deference to the National Security State is a perfect fit here.

Link to comment
46 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Governments do not fall primarily due to how armed people are. They are not a military threat. They are an existential political threat. They are morons but they are morons backed by morons with power and morons who think they can be exploited. The lack of opposition to all these morons is why our nation is in danger. We have little loyalty to the ideals of the nation and the mechanisms that check power and a lot of loyalty to power itself.

Does this definition fall only on the Jan. 6 protesters or other groups of morons backed by those in power? This is a broad definition and fits many groups from both sides if the aisle. 

Link to comment
23 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Does this definition fall only on the Jan. 6 protesters or other groups of morons backed by those in power? This is a broad definition and fits many groups from both sides if the aisle. 

It is not just being morons backed by powerful people. It is having the aim of subverting, intimidating, and/or overthrowing the government. I don't mean agitating for change. I mean direct action against the government to change it or force it to comply. I mean terrorism. We haven't had a sitting or former President back terrorists since John Tyler gathered war supplies for and later was elected to serve in the Confederate government. It will be interesting to see what happens this time.

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is not just being morons backed by powerful people. It is having the aim of subverting, intimidating, and/or overthrowing the government. I don't mean agitating for change. I mean direct action against the government to change it or force it to comply. I mean terrorism. We haven't had a sitting or former President back terrorists since John Tyler gathered war supplies for and later was elected to serve in the Confederate government. It will be interesting to see what happens this time.

Lol

Link to comment
13 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is not just being morons backed by powerful people. It is having the aim of subverting, intimidating, and/or overthrowing the government. I don't mean agitating for change. I mean direct action against the government to change it or force it to comply. I mean terrorism. We haven't had a sitting or former President back terrorists since John Tyler gathered war supplies for and later was elected to serve in the Confederate government. It will be interesting to see what happens this time.

It's funny how both sides think it's the other side doing this.  

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...