Captain moroni arrested

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It's funny how both sides think it's the other side doing this.  

It is many things but it is not funny.

[Tacenda]

58 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It's funny how both sides think it's the other side doing this.  

I think you are so right!!

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, gopher said:

Yikes!  I'd advise against trying to make any comparisons between 9/11 and Jan 6th.  It's like comparing mask mandates with the Holocaust or comparing anyone you disagree with to Hitler.  Sorry you feel so much angst, but I think the lack of support for the Jan 6th rioters by the general public and the increased scrutiny of these groups by the FBI makes me much less worried.  Hope they enjoy having all their online communications monitored for the rest of their lives.  Plus, no longer will their online threats be treated as idle threats.

I was here for both 9/11 and Jan 6th.  There was a completely different feeling after 9/11.  DC actually came together for a while  (until election season came around and everything went back to normal).  After Jan 6th, we've seen the contempt both sides have for each other.  Hopefully it will cool off.

 

No, you may not have seen that I reiterated that I felt the same way watching both, because the incidences seemed so unreal, like how can this be happening kind of thing. I never thought I'd see the day when I saw either one.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Tacenda

[bluebell]

58 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is many things but it is not funny.

I meant funny as in interesting.

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is many things but it is not funny.

I think the sense of "funny" she meant is "strange" or "odd".

But you know that.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

No, you may not have seen that I reiterated that I felt the same way watching both, because the incidences seemed so unreal, like how can this be happening kind of thing. I never thought I'd see the day when I saw either one.

I suspect a good word for it was you were feeling disoriented or a loss of solid footing in both cases.  Your view of the world changed during both experiences.  New fears and uncertainties were created in your life.

You are likely grouping them together in your mind because they were life altering events for you…but you need to be careful in talking about them as if similar in other ways.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Calm

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I suspect a good word for it was you were feeling disoriented or a loss of solid footing in both cases.  Your view of the world changed during both experiences.  New fears and uncertainties were created in your life.

You are likely grouping them together in your mind because they were life altering events for you…but you need to be careful in talking about them as if similar in other ways.

Thanks for this. It led me to view the comparison more charitably and more like Tacenda most likely was feeling about it. It has been a year of watching things happen that bring a sense of unbelief and strips away feelings of stability.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I think the sense of "funny" she meant is "strange" or "odd".

But you know that.

I do and I meant it is not “funny” in both senses. It is not strange of odd. Historically speaking it is a cliche for fascism to accuse their enemies of doing everything they are trying to do. It works. Hitler got into power because everyone was so afraid of the foul commies that Hitler was acceptable if he could prevent them from taking power. Same thing in Italy.

The motto “It is always projection” keeps being true over and over and over again.

[Stargazer]

27 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Historically speaking it is a cliche for fascism to accuse their enemies of doing everything they are trying to do. It works.

Exactly. Which is what Antifa and BLM are up to. 

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Exactly. Which is what Antifa and BLM are up to. 

They are not fascists though. I specifically said it was a fascist ploy.

Besides when would they have the time. They were too busy colluding with the FBI in invading the capitol to implicate the poor defenseless Proud Boys. Somehow it was also not an attack but just a tourist visit.

Here, have a description and some audio and video of this lovely tourist visit. You will have to click through to view it. It is disturbing and violent so YouTube requires you to go to the site itself:

One side deliberately attempted to coerce and/or murder government officials. The government and the nation itself may never recover from this event. The other side did not.

I do not buy this “both sides” bovine excrement. It is a cheap tactic. If your only defense is “THEY DID IT TOO!” when they did not maybe you should examine what kind of horrors you are reflexively defending.

I can’t believe I am sharing pews with so many saints that are okay with terrorism and treason against the constitution God broadly endorsed at the behest of a wannabe dictator but here we are. Wheat and tares I suppose.

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

I suspect a good word for it was you were feeling disoriented or a loss of solid footing in both cases.  Your view of the world changed during both experiences.  New fears and uncertainties were created in your life.

You are likely grouping them together in your mind because they were life altering events for you…but you need to be careful in talking about them as if similar in other ways.

Like Nehor mentioned, the first insurrection on Jan 6th might just lead to worse things happening. One, only one good thing about 9/11 was the affect it had on the Americans shortly after,  it brought the nation together. The insurrection has been the opposite, and those that support the lie are causing family members to part ways along with neighbors and friends. Division could later on prove to hurt more than we may know. Like I mentioned, my nephew and all these underground folk, want a civil war. He doesn't know I read his post on FB though. But wish I could talk some sense into him.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Tacenda

[Stargazer]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

They are not fascists though. I specifically said it was a fascist ploy.

Fascist and communist are two sides of the same authoritarian and dictatorial coin. Both imprisoned and murdered millions of their own citizens. Both invoked the other side of the coin in order to justify their actions. The BLM's founders are trained Marxists, who have recently condemned the US in favor of Cuba's murderous communist regime. They are not admirable in any sense at all. BLM doesn't care about black lives, in my opinion; their name is a lie. Antifa uses the same street tactics used by the Brownshirts -- minus the uniforms, though their pre-Covid masks may substitute for them.

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Besides when would they have the time. They were too busy colluding with the FBI in invading the capitol to implicate the poor defenseless Proud Boys. Somehow it was also not an attack but just a tourist visit.

Here, have a description and some audio and video of this lovely tourist visit. You will have to click through to view it. It is disturbing and violent so YouTube requires you to go to the site itself:

One side deliberately attempted to coerce and/or murder government officials. The government and the nation itself may never recover from this event. The other side did not.

I do not buy this “both sides” bovine excrement. It is a cheap tactic. If your only defense is “THEY DID IT TOO!” when they did not maybe you should examine what kind of horrors you are reflexively defending.

I can’t believe I am sharing pews with so many saints that are okay with terrorism and treason against the constitution God broadly endorsed at the behest of a wannabe dictator but here we are. Wheat and tares I suppose.

Are you talking about the January 6 thing? I have no idea what was actually happening there. I hear one thing from one side and another from the other. I have serious doubts that anyone at all is honestly reporting those events. Especially anyone the news media. Something was going on there, and it wasn't necessarily what was being publicly reported. And for that reason, I feel it it is unwise to judge people based on their opinion of that event -- the whole thing has the flavor of a "wag the dog" or "deception operation", and I have no idea which side was wagging or deceiving. I won't discuss it further with you, simply because you clearly stand on one side of the matter and are utterly convinced about what was happening. Facts are what matter, but actual facts seem to be thin on the ground.

 

[bsjkki]

39 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

They are not fascists though. I specifically said it was a fascist ploy.

Besides when would they have the time. They were too busy colluding with the FBI in invading the capitol to implicate the poor defenseless Proud Boys. Somehow it was also not an attack but just a tourist visit.

Here, have a description and some audio and video of this lovely tourist visit. You will have to click through to view it. It is disturbing and violent so YouTube requires you to go to the site itself:

One side deliberately attempted to coerce and/or murder government officials. The government and the nation itself may never recover from this event. The other side did not.

I do not buy this “both sides” bovine excrement. It is a cheap tactic. If your only defense is “THEY DID IT TOO!” when they did not maybe you should examine what kind of horrors you are reflexively defending.

I can’t believe I am sharing pews with so many saints that are okay with terrorism and treason against the constitution God broadly endorsed at the behest of a wannabe dictator but here we are. Wheat and tares I suppose.

This video is not taking me to the link you are discussing.

I am against any violent action or the use of violence as a means to an end to influence government officials or effect change. I am against violence to deny constitutionally protected rights. Are you? 
 

 

 

[The Nehor]

32 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Fascist and communist are two sides of the same authoritarian and dictatorial coin. Both imprisoned and murdered millions of their own citizens. Both invoked the other side of the coin in order to justify their actions. The BLM's founders are trained Marxists, who have recently condemned the US in favor of Cuba's murderous communist regime. They are not admirable in any sense at all. BLM doesn't care about black lives, in my opinion; their name is a lie. Antifa uses the same street tactics used by the Brownshirts -- minus the uniforms, though their pre-Covid masks may substitute for them.

All wrong.

33 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Are you talking about the January 6 thing? I have no idea what was actually happening there. I hear one thing from one side and another from the other. I have serious doubts that anyone at all is honestly reporting those events. Especially anyone the news media. Something was going on there, and it wasn't necessarily what was being publicly reported. And for that reason, I feel it it is unwise to judge people based on their opinion of that event -- the whole thing has the flavor of a "wag the dog" or "deception operation", and I have no idea which side was wagging or deceiving. I won't discuss it further with you, simply because you clearly stand on one side of the matter and are utterly convinced about what was happening. Facts are what matter, but actual facts seem to be thin on the ground.

That is very convenient. It is not hard to figure out what was going on. There is A LOT of video. There are extensive breakdowns putting all the video together. There are videos of violence. You can hear the chants the people who attacked the capitol were using as their rallying cries. I suppose you could, you know, look at the evidence.

Or you could stick your head in the sand so you don’t have to reach any conclusions and insist that anyone who reaches a conclusion reached that conclusion because it happens to agree with them. This kind of willfully ignorant thinking will, if widely practiced, destroy democracy. It can survive a lot but a wholesale abandonment of facts in favor of believing everything is a shadowy conspiracy and that reality is unknowable will destroy it. There will be no room for compromise, no shared ideals to rally behind, and all communication will be labeled as propaganda and believed based solely on whether you want to believe it. You are already there. Note that you wholesale drank the kool-aid with the whole BLM being entirely dedicated to Marxism but when you have plain video of people calling out to murder government officials while storming the building they are in you can’t make heads or tails of it.

I wish you luck. You will need it in the days ahead.

[The Nehor]

33 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

This video is not taking me to the link you are discussing.

I am against any violent action or the use of violence as a means to an end to influence government officials or effect change. I am against violence to deny constitutionally protected rights. Are you? 

Click on the “Watch on YouTube” link in the middle of the video.

I am against most violent action to effect change but not all. I am unequivocally against rushing the building Congress is in with the intent of threatening, coercing, and/or murdering members of Congress to get them to overthrow an election.

I am in favor of punching Nazis though.

There is nothing more American than beating the hell out of Nazis. Some whine that they deserve the protection of law and in the abstract I agree but their objective is to destroy the law and rule without it so I see little wrong with denying them the protection they want to take from others. Fascists negate your right to a calm and civilized conversation. When you do that this happens:

 

I like Jack Kirby, the guy who created Captain America. He fought in WWII as a scout and saw firsthand the camps. The villains he created were embodiments of fascist ideology and one of his first comics was Captain America beating up Hitler. He didn’t stop after the war. Someone who worked with him described an incident at work:

Quote

 “…Jack took a call. A voice on the other end said, ‘There are three of us down here in the lobby. We want to see the guy who does this disgusting comic book and show him what real Nazis would do to his Captain America’. To the horror of others in the office, Kirby rolled up his sleeves and headed downstairs. The callers, however, were gone by the time he arrived.” Based on everything we know about Kirby, these Nazi crank-yankers got lucky.

It might be illegal to punch a fascist but it is not wrong to punch a fascist. So, punch fascists. It is the American Way!

[bsjkki]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Click on the “Watch on YouTube” link in the middle of the video.

I am against most violent action to effect change but not all. I am unequivocally against rushing the building Congress is in with the intent of threatening, coercing, and/or murdering members of Congress to get them to overthrow an election.

I am in favor of punching Nazis though.

There is nothing more American than beating the hell out of Nazis. Some whine that they deserve the protection of law and in the abstract I agree but their objective is to destroy the law and rule without it so I see little wrong with denying them the protection they want to take from others. Fascists negate your right to a calm and civilized conversation. When you do that this happens:

 

I like Jack Kirby, the guy who created Captain America. He fought in WWII as a scout and saw firsthand the camps. The villains he created were embodiments of fascist ideology and one of his first comics was Captain America beating up Hitler. He didn’t stop after the war. Someone who worked with him described an incident at work:

It might be illegal to punch a fascist but it is not wrong to punch a fascist. So, punch fascists. It is the American Way!

The definition of fascist is quite expansive for a certain group so we will not agree. Tactics, targets, coordination, techniques, anti free speech instigators. They see themselves on the ‘right side’ by shutting down any and all they disagree with. I see them as, violent, unAmerican and authoritarian. ‘Rights for me but not for thee’ thinkers.

 

 

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, bsjkki said:

The definition of fascist is quite expansive for a certain group so we will not agree. Tactics, targets, coordination, techniques, anti free speech instigators. They see themselves on the ‘right side’ by shutting down any and all they disagree with. I see them as, violent, unAmerican and authoritarian. ‘Rights for me but not for thee’ thinkers.

Not really. They target white supremacists who look to a past golden age that never existed and want to restore it by cleansing their nation of the foul others and putting them in their place to restore this golden age. They also insist their nation is being stolen from them and that Jews and Blacks and communists and all the rest are horrible traitors that caused them to  lose the Great War lose the election and are willing to threaten and use violence to win it back. Textbook fascists. Nazis. They need to be punched.

The real reason they lost the election:

 

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

am in favor of punching Nazis though.

I would prefer if people surrounded him and drowned out his words with hymns or other upbeat songs. 

[bsjkki]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Not really. They target white supremacists who look to a past golden age that never existed and want to restore it by cleansing their nation of the foul others and putting them in their place to restore this golden age. They also insist their nation is being stolen from them and that Jews and Blacks and communists and all the rest are horrible traitors that caused them to  lose the Great War lose the election and are willing to threaten and use violence to win it back. Textbook fascists. Nazis. They need to be punched.

The real reason they lost the election:

 

Are you implying by cartoon every person who supported Trump is a Nazi who should be punched?

[Stargazer]

59 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

All wrong.

The evidence strongly suggests otherwise.

59 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That is very convenient. It is not hard to figure out what was going on. There is A LOT of video. There are extensive breakdowns putting all the video together. There are videos of violence. You can hear the chants the people who attacked the capitol were using as their rallying cries. I suppose you could, you know, look at the evidence.

Or you could stick your head in the sand so you don’t have to reach any conclusions and insist that anyone who reaches a conclusion reached that conclusion because it happens to agree with them. This kind of willfully ignorant thinking will, if widely practiced, destroy democracy. It can survive a lot but a wholesale abandonment of facts in favor of believing everything is a shadowy conspiracy and that reality is unknowable will destroy it. There will be no room for compromise, no shared ideals to rally behind, and all communication will be labeled as propaganda and believed based solely on whether you want to believe it. You are already there. Note that you wholesale drank the kool-aid with the whole BLM being entirely dedicated to Marxism but when you have plain video of people calling out to murder government officials while storming the building they are in you can’t make heads or tails of it.

Totally captured by the media narrative. 

59 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I wish you luck. You will need it in the days ahead.

So will you.

[Stargazer]

10 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Are you implying by cartoon every person who supported Trump is a Nazi who should be punched?

Of course he is. On this subject he is totally in the pocket of the media machine. As are many others.

[Calm]

This thread so needs to be locked. 

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Are you implying by cartoon every person who supported Trump is a Nazi who should be punched?

Of course not. Some are just ignorant and/or stupid. We call these Nazi sympathizers. The kind of person that just ignores fascism. Still, lots of Nazis to punch. Lots of them. 

Have a helpful video on how to punch Nazis:

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

I would prefer if people surrounded him and drowned out his words with hymns or other upbeat songs. 

I suggest a compromise so everyone can be happy.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Some are just ignorant and/or stupid. We call these Nazi sympathizers

Only if they approve of Nazis. I am not saying it is right to ignore issues or that it isn’t harmful in its own way to do nothing, to assume something is no big deal when it is, but there is a big difference between that and being sympathetic, supportive. 

[bsjkki]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

This thread so needs to be locked. 

Yep. I’m done.