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Mixed messages and the future of the church


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Posted
7 hours ago, why me said:

The conversation is still continuing. It will be all but a matter of time. It starts with one group of rules and expands to other areas. That could happen.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/transgender-charity-tries-to-ban-word-mother-and-replace-it-with-parent-who-has-given-birth-213762

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-56372118

Any comments? What action would be taken against a LDS student who would come out against this? The seeds are being planted. But will they blossom? Maybe so.

 

 

So you admit are you conceding you are completely wrong about what you are saying is happening and now arguing that the thing you are completely wrong about is going to cause other things to happen. You do realize that the only reason the lie that is supposedly going to cause all these things is being promulgated are the people who say they don’t want the stuff to happen? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Posted (edited)
On 6/19/2021 at 3:26 AM, The Nehor said:

So you admit are you conceding you are completely wrong about what you are saying is happening and now arguing that the thing you are completely wrong about is going to cause other things to happen. You do realize that the only reason the lie that is supposedly going to cause all these things is being promulgated are the people who say they don’t want the stuff to happen? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

No. It is a trend. Congress began to plant the seed. It will expand unless there is a backlash. Once a seed is planted it can spread and prosper. That was my point. We also see from my links just how it is spreading. And this is what some people are concerned about. It is happening as my link to Manchester University shows.  And also in Australia.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/anu-researchers-suggest-changing-terms-mother-father-to-be-more-gender-inclusive-c-2174442

So, as a church member you support banning the word mother and father etc? And remember I began this conversation that if any lds student would come out and oppose such bans, they would face possible hostility. Much better to be woke to survive.

 

 

Edited by why me
Posted
17 minutes ago, why me said:

No. It is a trend. Congress began to plant the seed. It will expand unless there is a backlash. Once a seed is planted it can spread and prosper. That was my point. We also see from my links just how it is spreading. And this is what some people are concerned about. It is happening as my link to Manchester University shows.  And also in Australia.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/anu-researchers-suggest-changing-terms-mother-father-to-be-more-gender-inclusive-c-2174442

So, as a church member you support banning the word mother and father etc? And remember I began this conversation that if any lds student would come out and oppose such bans, they would face possible hostility. Much better to be woke to survive.

 

 

No, it isn’t. If it expands it will be because of the backlash. It is not something that expands though. It was a change to an innocuous Congressional rule about nepotism. They changed the verbiage describing who qualifies as a relative under that clause of the rules. It was nothing. No one would have noticed until idiots blew it up. They can pretend to be whistleblowers but it was nothing.

They lied about what it was to pump up the view count and to stir meaningless outrage. You presented it as something it wasn’t. I corrected you. You came back insisting that it might not be what you said but it is indicative of what could happen. In other words you don’t care if anything happened. Facts don’t matter. The news outlets who publish this stuff do it because the people who listen to read those outlets don’t mind being lied to. The one thing you can’t abandon in a democracy is facts. Without a shared factual worldview there is nothing to discuss, no compromises to be made, and no common ground to build on.

Why aren’t you outraged that they are lying to you? They are trying to play you for a fool. Where is your sense of self-respect? How does this patronizing and condescending lie they are trying to use to drive you to outrage not make you angry about how they are using you? They are trying to use you to spread this and even when it is false you still try to spread it. Why? I am genuinely curious.

Posted
25 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, it isn’t. If it expands it will be because of the backlash. It is not something that expands though. It was a change to an innocuous Congressional rule about nepotism. They changed the verbiage describing who qualifies as a relative under that clause of the rules. It was nothing. No one would have noticed until idiots blew it up. They can pretend to be whistleblowers but it was nothing.

They lied about what it was to pump up the view count and to stir meaningless outrage. You presented it as something it wasn’t. I corrected you. You came back insisting that it might not be what you said but it is indicative of what could happen. In other words you don’t care if anything happened. Facts don’t matter. The news outlets who publish this stuff do it because the people who listen to read those outlets don’t mind being lied to. The one thing you can’t abandon in a democracy is facts. Without a shared factual worldview there is nothing to discuss, no compromises to be made, and no common ground to build on.

Why aren’t you outraged that they are lying to you? They are trying to play you for a fool. Where is your sense of self-respect? How does this patronizing and condescending lie they are trying to use to drive you to outrage not make you angry about how they are using you? They are trying to use you to spread this and even when it is false you still try to spread it. Why? I am genuinely curious.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/16/fact-check-house-rules-only-changed-gendered-language-one-document/4175388001/

It begins with small changes. Here is the fact check. And it could expand. That was my point. They ban the words in this rule and it expands depending on the acceptance or backlash. The current trend is in this direction. No need for mother and father as a word. We all need to go through life with eyes wide open.

Posted
6 hours ago, why me said:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/16/fact-check-house-rules-only-changed-gendered-language-one-document/4175388001/

It begins with small changes. Here is the fact check. And it could expand. That was my point. They ban the words in this rule and it expands depending on the acceptance or backlash. The current trend is in this direction. No need for mother and father as a word. We all need to go through life with eyes wide open.

THEY DIDN’T BAN THE WORDS! IN ANY WAY! ANYONE CAN SAY THEM! IN CONGRESS AND OUT OF CONGRESS. THEY COULD CHANGE THE VERBIAGE BACK TOMORROW IF THEY WERE SO INCLINED! THERE WAS NO BANNING! STOP TALKING ABOUT A BAN WHEN THERE IS NO BAN!

 They changed the verbiage in one rule. It wasn’t the beginning of a massive change to everything. There is no current trend towards removing the words from general English usage and if there were this wouldn’t be a sign of it.

So you are not angry that the people who wrote the articles you quoted were lying to you? Why?

Posted
9 hours ago, why me said:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/16/fact-check-house-rules-only-changed-gendered-language-one-document/4175388001/

It begins with small changes. Here is the fact check. And it could expand. That was my point. They ban the words in this rule and it expands depending on the acceptance or backlash. The current trend is in this direction. No need for mother and father as a word. We all need to go through life with eyes wide open.

Honestly I don't understand how people like you can get so worked up about something that you have been lied to about and then continue to cling to that lie when you know it is. not true.  Can you explain that to me?  Why do you want to continue to be upset about something that is just not true?  I would love to hear your explanation because you are not the only one that is exhibiting this kind of behavior.  I just don't understand it.

Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

THEY DIDN’T BAN THE WORDS! IN ANY WAY! ANYONE CAN SAY THEM! IN CONGRESS AND OUT OF CONGRESS. THEY COULD CHANGE THE VERBIAGE BACK TOMORROW IF THEY WERE SO INCLINED! THERE WAS NO BANNING! STOP TALKING ABOUT A BAN WHEN THERE IS NO BAN!

 They changed the verbiage in one rule. It wasn’t the beginning of a massive change to everything. There is no current trend towards removing the words from general English usage and if there were this wouldn’t be a sign of it.

So you are not angry that the people who wrote the articles you quoted were lying to you? Why?

They planted the seed. And then they will see how it sprouts. So far it got some backlash. But it is a trend and that was my point. This just happened today:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9704921/SARAH-VINE-reacts-St-Pauls-Girls-School-no-longer-using-term-head-girl.html

So at an all girls school one can no longer say head girl. Amazing. Little by little the change will occur unless there is a push back.

Binary is the new word. My other point was that if lds students take the wrong side, the woke people will come down on them hard, both from the students and from the staff. Much better to go with the flow will be the decision of many.

Edited by why me
Posted
2 hours ago, california boy said:

Honestly I don't understand how people like you can get so worked up about something that you have been lied to about and then continue to cling to that lie when you know it is. not true.  Can you explain that to me?  Why do you want to continue to be upset about something that is just not true?  I would love to hear your explanation because you are not the only one that is exhibiting this kind of behavior.  I just don't understand it.

I have given many examples where mother, father girl or boy are being replaced. I just linked to a girls school in Britain that just banned head girl because of binary pressure. I do think that the congress would love to ban gendered terms. But they are not ready to go all the way. Plant a seed and see how it sprouts.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9704921/SARAH-VINE-reacts-St-Pauls-Girls-School-no-longer-using-term-head-girl.html

Posted
2 hours ago, why me said:

I have given many examples where mother, father girl or boy are being replaced. I just linked to a girls school in Britain that just banned head girl because of binary pressure. I do think that the congress would love to ban gendered terms. But they are not ready to go all the way. Plant a seed and see how it sprouts.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9704921/SARAH-VINE-reacts-St-Pauls-Girls-School-no-longer-using-term-head-girl.html

No, I get your references.  But so?  How are these two things even related?  You think one obscure school in the UK is going to start a tidal wave of how we call our parents? And the other has been clearly explained that it was just for one bill.  

This is what I don't get.  Let's say someone called the Church Joseph Smith's church, at some school in the UK.  Would you use that as proof that the name of the Church was going to change and it was only a matter of time that the whole country was going to refer to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as just Joseph Smith's church?  Is there a possibility of a slippery slope argument that you would be getting all excited about??

You gotta explain this to me.  I read that same article about the school in the UK and I thought so what?  Why is someone even writing an article about this?   

I don't understand why you think this is an issue.  Can you explain why you think it is?

Posted
On 6/20/2021 at 7:42 AM, The Nehor said:

THEY DIDN’T BAN THE WORDS! IN ANY WAY! ANYONE CAN SAY THEM! IN CONGRESS AND OUT OF CONGRESS. THEY COULD CHANGE THE VERBIAGE BACK TOMORROW IF THEY WERE SO INCLINED! THERE WAS NO BANNING! STOP TALKING ABOUT A BAN WHEN THERE IS NO BAN!

 They changed the verbiage in one rule. It wasn’t the beginning of a massive change to everything. There is no current trend towards removing the words from general English usage and if there were this wouldn’t be a sign of it.

So you are not angry that the people who wrote the articles you quoted were lying to you? Why?

Would you quit shouting Nehor! I can hear you! ;)

Posted
On 6/20/2021 at 2:27 PM, why me said:

They planted the seed. And then they will see how it sprouts. So far it got some backlash. But it is a trend and that was my point. This just happened today:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9704921/SARAH-VINE-reacts-St-Pauls-Girls-School-no-longer-using-term-head-girl.html

So at an all girls school one can no longer say head girl. Amazing. Little by little the change will occur unless there is a push back.

Binary is the new word. My other point was that if lds students take the wrong side, the woke people will come down on them hard, both from the students and from the staff. Much better to go with the flow will be the decision of many.

They can say it all they want. They just changed the name of a position.

Binary is the new word? I thought they were trying to get away from binary.

Also, you are using the Daily Mail as a source so……what is wrong with you?

On 6/20/2021 at 2:30 PM, why me said:

I have given many examples where mother, father girl or boy are being replaced. I just linked to a girls school in Britain that just banned head girl because of binary pressure. I do think that the congress would love to ban gendered terms. But they are not ready to go all the way. Plant a seed and see how it sprouts.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9704921/SARAH-VINE-reacts-St-Pauls-Girls-School-no-longer-using-term-head-girl.html

Most of them are administrative changes or are blown out of all proportion. Many are by private entities and surely you are not arguing that the government should be stopping these private entities for doing what they want are you?

Binary pressure? What are you even talking about? If you have to make up terms it would be non-binary pressure. I am not convinced you even understand what you are talking about. It is like when reporters corner politicians who promise to fight CRT and ask them what CRT is. They have no idea. They just know the propaganda their side is spewing about what it will supposedly do but have no idea what it actually is.

Posted
11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

ask them what CRT is. They have no idea. They just know the propaganda their side is spewing about what it will supposedly do but have no idea what it actually is.

 

Posted
On 6/20/2021 at 8:30 PM, why me said:

I have given many examples where mother, father girl or boy are being replaced. I just linked to a girls school in Britain that just banned head girl because of binary pressure. I do think that the congress would love to ban gendered terms. But they are not ready to go all the way. Plant a seed and see how it sprouts.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9704921/SARAH-VINE-reacts-St-Pauls-Girls-School-no-longer-using-term-head-girl.html

The daily mail really isn't a good source.   It is very biased.  Check out the whole statement by the school. Non binary was a factor, however, the main reason for the school making the change was led by the young women at the school feeling that the word girl denoted immaturity.  It certainly started a few conversations in the UK media though! 

https://www.indy100.com/news/st-pauls-head-girl-binary-b1869002

Posted
58 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

The daily mail really isn't a good source.   It is very biased.  Check out the whole statement by the school. Non binary was a factor, however, the main reason for the school making the change was led by the young women at the school feeling that the word girl denoted immaturity.  It certainly started a few conversations in the UK media though! 

https://www.indy100.com/news/st-pauls-head-girl-binary-b1869002

So Why Me, are you angry that they lied to you yet? Or are you just going to proceed to the next attack another liar sets you on with yet another lie?

Posted

If “hate the sin—love the sinner” is a mixed message, there are many more fundamental contradictions inherent in Gospel teachings. The largest of these is that the Atonement simultaneously can, and cannot, redeem us individually. The foundational principle is that we are saved (redeemed, sanctified, and worthy of exaltation, versus “merely” resurrected) by grace, but only “after all we can do.” Once that condition is interposed, the underlying calculus of salvation becomes so complicated that, in my view, we may as well ascribe to the Calvinist notion that God will save whom He will, and at His good pleasure, regardless of our individual works. I know I’ve more or less concluded that I’m Terrestrial Kingdom material, regardless, which—I know definitively—isn’t much motivation to do charitable acts of service for people outside my family.

I agree that the church as we know it today can’t survive if it changes its policies concerning SSM and homosexuality in general. However, in my opinion, that isn’t even in the top 3-5 factors impacting the looming crisis of faith among church members.

Posted
37 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Okay, I think they got the point. There are a lot of people out there who don't get CRT.

Please enlighten us all then. Honestly, if there is so much confusion, please give a working, accurate definition. I’ve seen a lot of criticism about people not understanding CRT but that is not that helpful. Please explain it.

Posted
8 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Please enlighten us all then. Honestly, if there is so much confusion, please give a working, accurate definition. I’ve seen a lot of criticism about people not understanding CRT but that is not that helpful. Please explain it.

For help getting started look here

Posted
13 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

For help getting started look here

Snarky. If there are so many ‘wrong’ interpretations, google won’t help me. What are people understanding incorrectly, in your opinion?
 

 

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