telnetd Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 In this analogy spoken by Mr. Uchtdorf (Second Conselor, First Presidency), he uses a poem about using an elephant to discuss aspects of truth. He says that each adherent expresses one thing about the animal that was partly in the right and all were in the wrong. Maybe instead of using an elephant in the cartoon, how about substituting Jesus Christ instead. Some people touch him and say he was a good man. Another touches him and says he was a good teacher. Others view him as a prophet, a lunatic, while others view him as Michael the Archangel. Still others view him as a spirit child of heavenly parents who progressed into becoming a God like all the Gods before him, and others behold him as the one and only always-existent eternal God. Do you believe the scriptures give us a picture which reveals the true nature of Christ? Gale
Metis_LDS Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 1 hour ago, telnetd said: Do you believe the scriptures give us a picture which reveals the true nature of Christ? No this only comes from personal revelation. 3
The Nehor Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 The elephant was a metaphor for truth which, if you are Christian, includes Jesus Christ. Comparing Jesus to an elephant would also be a little weird. 2
Rivers Posted June 16, 2021 Posted June 16, 2021 I guess you could apply the elephant analogy to just about anybody or anything. Take Donald Trump for example. People can touch him and call him all sorts of both positive and negative things. You use the analogy of “touching” Jesus. The church has been doing a campaign on how we “hear” Him. I believe the scriptures give us a clear picture on Jesus with the title Immanuel. It means “God with us.” It’s worth noting that was the title of Uchtdorf’s most recent talk. Christ is the manifestation of God on earth. If we have seen the Son, we’ve seen the Father.
CV75 Posted June 16, 2021 Posted June 16, 2021 On 6/12/2021 at 4:19 PM, telnetd said: In this analogy spoken by Mr. Uchtdorf (Second Conselor, First Presidency), he uses a poem about using an elephant to discuss aspects of truth. He says that each adherent expresses one thing about the animal that was partly in the right and all were in the wrong. Maybe instead of using an elephant in the cartoon, how about substituting Jesus Christ instead. Some people touch him and say he was a good man. Another touches him and says he was a good teacher. Others view him as a prophet, a lunatic, while others view him as Michael the Archangel. Still others view him as a spirit child of heavenly parents who progressed into becoming a God like all the Gods before him, and others behold him as the one and only always-existent eternal God. Do you believe the scriptures give us a picture which reveals the true nature of Christ? Gale
pogi Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) On 6/12/2021 at 2:19 PM, telnetd said: Do you believe the scriptures give us a picture which reveals the true nature of Christ? The scriptures give pieces of a picture, and a foundation to build on. The point of the poem is that we are all blind (see through a glass dimly), and though we may understand here a little and there a little, and thus partly in the right, “all were in the wrong”. Such is our plight in mortality. The poem leads us to be humble and less combative, and perhaps even seek to gain a broader perspective by listening to each other. Edited June 17, 2021 by pogi 3
The Nehor Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 One will not know Christ until He introduces Himself. Before that you are dealing with a ton of hearsay. Most of us have had the experience of hearing about someone for a long period of months or years and building up a mental picture of the person. Then we meet them and the picture is dashed to pieces. The people telling us about the other person were not lying. We just formed the wrong picture from the puzzle pieces they gave. Hence the need to serve Christ and take his name upon us in order to truly understand Him. It is a more terrible (in the scriptural sense) thing than I once suspected. 4
InCognitus Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 On 6/12/2021 at 1:19 PM, telnetd said: Maybe instead of using an elephant in the cartoon, how about substituting Jesus Christ instead. Some people touch him and say he was a good man. Another touches him and says he was a good teacher. Others view him as a prophet, a lunatic, while others view him as Michael the Archangel. Still others view him as a spirit child of heavenly parents who progressed into becoming a God like all the Gods before him, and others behold him as the one and only always-existent eternal God. Some of the examples of the views of Christ you list are flawed (i.e. Michael the Archangel, lunatic, and even the idea that he is the one and only God), while others may be correct and not contradictory to the other views but are only one piece of the big picture. Where someone might err is in thinking that the piece they hold is telling the entire story. For example, Jesus was a good man (although Jesus would say that there is none good, but God). And Jesus was a good teacher and a prophet (John 3:2, Acts 3:22-23). But it would be wrong to say that Jesus was only a man, or that he was merely a prophet. And Jesus may indeed be God, but the scriptures also say that God the Father is the very God and Father of Jesus Christ (John 20:17, Rom 15:6, 1 Cor 11:3, 2 Cor 11:31, Eph 1:3, Eph 1:17; Heb 1:8-9, 1 Pet 1:3, Rev 3:12), and Jesus is even said to be eternally subject to the Father (1 Cor 15:28). So we need to take into consideration all the things that the scriptures say about Jesus and also be aware that there may be other things that are true about Jesus that aren't discussed in scripture. On 6/12/2021 at 1:19 PM, telnetd said: Do you believe the scriptures give us a picture which reveals the true nature of Christ? Yes, but we have to be willing to look at all the pieces we have to get the best picture, and also be willing to admit that some of the pieces to the picture may not be included, and may be revealed by God at a future date. Some additional pieces to the picture have been revealed by God in the restoration of the gospel, for example.
Amulek Posted June 17, 2021 Posted June 17, 2021 On 6/12/2021 at 3:19 PM, telnetd said: Do you believe the scriptures give us a picture which reveals the true nature of Christ? I guess that depends on what you mean by "true nature." The scriptures certainly reveal true things about Christ. But there isn't a camera in the world with enough megapixels to give us a truly complete picture. 3
telnetd Posted June 17, 2021 Author Posted June 17, 2021 12 hours ago, InCognitus said: Yes, but we have to be willing to look at all the pieces we have to get the best picture, and also be willing to admit that some of the pieces to the picture may not be included, and may be revealed by God at a future date. Some additional pieces to the picture have been revealed by God in the restoration of the gospel, for example. What scripture or revelation says Jesus is a spirit child of heavenly parents who then became a God?
InCognitus Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 On 6/17/2021 at 9:41 AM, telnetd said: What scripture or revelation says Jesus is a spirit child of heavenly parents who then became a God? God the Father is the "Father of spirits" (Heb 12:9), Jesus is the "firstbegotten" of the Father (Heb 1:6), and God made Jesus both "Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36). 2
mfbukowski Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 On 6/16/2021 at 12:34 PM, Rivers said: I guess you could apply the elephant analogy to just about anybody or anything. Take Donald Trump for example. People can touch him and call him all sorts of both positive and negative things. You use the analogy of “touching” Jesus. The church has been doing a campaign on how we “hear” Him. I believe the scriptures give us a clear picture on Jesus with the title Immanuel. It means “God with us.” It’s worth noting that was the title of Uchtdorf’s most recent talk. Christ is the manifestation of God on earth. If we have seen the Son, we’ve seen the Father. And also since it is also said that he created this earth, and is the Father of our salvation, for all practical purposes, he IS the Father imo. Christ is also the only one we "go through" to reach the Father. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted June 22, 2021 Posted June 22, 2021 On 6/12/2021 at 2:19 PM, telnetd said: In this analogy spoken by Mr. Uchtdorf (Second Conselor, First Presidency) ... I doubt it would be a huge deal to him, so I'm disinclined to make what wouldn't be a huge deal to him a huge deal to me. That said, if I knew what religion you adhere to, I wouldn't have any problem addressing its leaders according to the offices they hold. I find it curious that you cannot demonstrate the same respect.
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