Dr. D. Michael quinn has passed away

[Fair Dinkum]

He changed the course of Mormonism.  I owe so much of what I believe and understand regarding the church today to this man.  His Magic World View book rocked my world and changed forever how I view the church.  RIP Dr Quinn

Edited April 22, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[Kenngo1969]

I'm sorry to hear that.  I haven't read a lot of his work, but from what I've heard of others, it does seem that his last book was a worthy valedictory and magnum opus. 

[Calm]

How old was he?  There have been a couple of people in their 50s who have died that surprised me, but it is not like I was tracking their lives and paying attention to the fact they had cancer and other issues. 

Nonelderly people dying always makes me dwell on how I don’t want to walk away from relationships in turmoil as too often we lose future chances to repair the damage done if we wait. 

[ttribe]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

How old was he?  There have been a couple of people in their 50s who have died that surprised me, but it is not like I was tracking their lives and paying attention to the fact they had cancer and other issues. 

Nonelderly people dying always makes me dwell on how I don’t want to walk away from relationships in turmoil as too often we lose future chances to repair the damage done if we wait. 

He was born in 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._Michael_Quinn

[Kevin Christensen]

Sad to hear it.  I heard him speak at Sunstones a few times.  He could be quite inspirational.  Saw him at the last one I attended, at Kirtland back in 2016?  I saw him in the audience at an SLC Sunstone for a talk I gave on Paradigm Debate in LDS circles, oh, a long time ago.  He footnoted my RBBM 7/2 essay on Paradigms Crossed in the second edition of Mormonism and the Magic World View.   I appreciated that the last time I saw him making headlines was over his report that most striking thing about the financial success of the LDS church is that the wealth did not go to making the leaders rich.

Rest in Peace

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

[Fair Dinkum]

I do find it rather ironic that he was excommunicated for exposing the history of the church, a history that the church itself has now embraced as truthful.  The church made it impossible for Quinn to even find employment following his church court and his resignation from BYU.  One potential employer was told that if you hire that man you can expect all donations by prominent Mormon's to your university to stop, the school withdrew their employment offer.

He ended up surviving on the royalties from his books and living with his mother in California.

It's also ironic that Spencer W Kimball gave him a blessing stating that he would someday be called as a member of the twelve apostles and for him to prepare himself.  Despite being excommunicated he died a believer in Mormonism.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[Duncan]

23 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I do find it rather ironic that he was excommunicated for exposing the history of the church, a history that the church itself has now embraced as truthful.  The church made it impossible for Quinn to even find employment following his church court and his resignation from BYU.  One potential employer was told that if you hire that man you can expect the all donations by prominent Mormon's to your university to stop, the school withdrew their employment offer.

He ended up surviving on the royalties from his books and living with his mother in California.

It's also ironic that Spencer W Kimball gave him a blessing stating that he would someday be called as a member of the twelve apostles and for him to prepare himself.  Despite being excommunicated he died a believer in Mormonism.

um, there's more to his excommunication than that, i'd be surprised to hear if that is why he was exed

[JLHPROF]

Wow - I didn't realize he was in his late 70s.
I understand he struggled more than most after being excommunicated and leaving BYU.

Some of his work was truly groundbreaking and gave a more honest view of Church history.  He was instrumental in bringing us out of the sanitized history of the 50s and 60s.

[Fair Dinkum]

21 minutes ago, Duncan said:

um, there's more to his excommunication than that, i'd be surprised to hear if that is why he was exed

Well be surprised then because that is exactly why he was excommunicated.

 

Edit to add:

Quote

On September 26, 1993, Quinn was excommunicated from the LDS Church as one of the September Six. Quinn had been summoned to a disciplinary council to answer charges of "conduct unbecoming a member of the Church and apostasy," including "'very sensitive and highly confidential' matters that were not related to Michael's historical writings."^[8] Lavina Fielding Anderson has suggested that the "allusion to Michael's sexual orientation, which Michael had not yet made public, was unmistakable."^[8] Quinn did not attend the disciplinary council that resulted in his excommunication.

However in his MS interview Quinn said that being Gay did not play a part in his excommunication

 

Regarding the loss of employment opportunities following his excommunication:

Quote

In an April 2006 article in The Wall Street Journal, reporter Daniel Golden wrote that Quinn can no longer be hired because almost all the funding for professorships in Mormon studies comes from Mormon donors. More recently, Arizona State University administrators vetoed the department of religious studies in its recommendation to hire Quinn. Its faculty believed that officials fear alienating the 3,700 Mormon students and offending Ira A. Fulton, a powerful Mormon donor who, according to Golden, has called Quinn a "nothing person."^[9]

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[ttribe]

11 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Well be surprised then because that is exactly why he was excommunicated.

 

Edit to add:

However in his MS interview Quinn said that being Gay did not play a part in his excommunication

Yep...he was one of the September 6.

[Duncan]

11 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Well be surprised then because that is exactly why he was excommunicated.

 

Edit to add:

However in his MS interview Quinn said that being Gay did not play a part in his excommunication

 

Regarding the loss of employment opportunities following his excommunication:

 

according to this not related to his historical writings and not for being gay, so what then? I suspect I know but to respect the departed I won't

[Fair Dinkum]

10 minutes ago, Duncan said:

according to this not related to his historical writings and not for being gay, so what then? I suspect I know but to respect the departed I won't

He was excommunicated for exposing Mormon history

Quote

Historian D. Michael Quinn has publicly discussed his excommunication, claiming that it was the direct result of his historical research on the origins of Mormonism.

Quinn claims that his excommunication was the direct result of his historical research on the origins of Mormonism. He refused to attend his own disciplinary council, telling his stake president that it was "a process which was designed to punish me for being the messenger of unwanted historical evidence and to intimidate me from further work in Mormon history."

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[cinepro]

Sad to hear. He will live on through his books for a long time to come.

[Duncan]

2 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

He was excommunicated for exposing Mormon history

 

but you previously gave quotations that say otherwise, why did you do that if he was actually exed for "exposing" mormon history?

 "'very sensitive and highly confidential' matters that were not related to Michael's historical writings."

so this statement, that you gave, isn't true?

[Fair Dinkum]

9 minutes ago, Duncan said:

but you previously gave quotations that say otherwise, why did you do that if he was actually exed for "exposing" mormon history?

 "'very sensitive and highly confidential' matters that were not related to Michael's historical writings."

so this statement, that you gave, isn't true?

Upon doing some research into the question I felt I had over stated my assertion.  Clearly however Quinn stated that he was excommunicated for exposing Mormon history...and the statement that I gave is true...I was loosely quoting Quinn himself and subsequently provided his exact quote.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Fair Dinkum said:

The church made it impossible for Quinn to even find employment following his church court and his resignation from BYU.  One potential employer was told that if you hire that man you can expect all donations by prominent Mormon's to your university to stop, the school withdrew their employment offer.

CFR

Wikipedia does show loss of some opportunities of employment and suspicion that one donor, Fulton, would be upset, but those are not the claims made above. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Calm

[Bob Crockett]

To Fair Dinkum:

A lot of what you say about Dr. Quinn is directly refuted in the Wall Street Journal article about him.  For instance, he says that Church had nothing to do with his difficulty finding employment. 

His problem was that he rarely published peer-reviewed work, the WJS noted.  His one peer-reviewed book was classified in the Dewey system under "Queer Studies."

Further, we don't know the church's official reason for his excommunication.  He had previously announced he was gay and left his family, I recall, but I might be wrong.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Bob Crockett

[Fair Dinkum]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

CFR

I provided the link to your CRF earlier...read above

[Calm]

29 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

He refused to attend his own disciplinary council,

If he refused to attend, how does he know what went into the decision process?

[Calm]

Just now, Fair Dinkum said:

I provided the link to your CRF earlier...read above

See my addition, but you retracted your claims as overstated, and that is sufficient.

[Fair Dinkum]

2 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

To Fair Dinkum:

A lot of what you say about Dr. Quinn is directly refuted in the Wall Street Journal article about him.  For instance, he says that Church had nothing to do with his difficulty finding employment. 

His problem was that he rarely published peer-reviewed work, the WJS noted.  His one peer-reviewed book was classified in the Dewey system under "Queer Studies."

 

Sorry I don't have a subscription to the WSJ...but I did quote the reporter above. Seems your assertion is directly refuted by the wiki article quoting the reporter.  If you'd like to provide a link to the article I'd love to read it if its possible

See Here:

Quote

In an April 2006 article in The Wall Street Journal, reporter Daniel Golden wrote that Quinn can no longer be hired because almost all the funding for professorships in Mormon studies comes from Mormon donors. More recently, Arizona State University administrators vetoed the department of religious studies in its recommendation to hire Quinn. Its faculty believed that officials fear alienating the 3,700 Mormon students and offending Ira A. Fulton, a powerful Mormon donor who, according to Golden, has called Quinn a "nothing person."^[9]

 

[Fair Dinkum]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

See my addition, but you retracted your claims as overstated, and that is sufficient.

I did not retract my claim, I merely gave room for both statements to be true, both Quinn's and the SP's

[Bob Crockett]

I think it is fairly easy for critics like Fair to jump on the Quinn bandwagon and attack the church.  But Quinn was a complex guy and did not run with the apostate crowd.  I have cited to him many times in my published pieces, knowing that his Power books were not peer reviewed.  He was prolific in his research and helped point the way for me. 

No, I cannot point to the article. He has a Sunstone inteview on video saying his career has not been affected by church actions.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Bob Crockett

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I did not retract my claim, I merely gave room for both statements to be true, both Quinn's and the SP's

You did not overstate then?

Added: went back and reread, apparently you meant for your other claim.
 

CFR still stands then. Please give evidence that the Church acted to prevent his employment and a potential employer was actually told by someone (not just rumors that it would happen) that all donations (not just one man even if main donor) would dry up. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Calm

[Fair Dinkum]

8 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I think it is fairly easy for critics like Fair to jump on the Quinn bandwagon and attack the church.  But Quinn was a complex guy and did not run with the apostate crowd.  I have cited to him many times in my published pieces, knowing that his Power books were not peer reviewed.  He was prolific in his research and helped point the way for me. 

No, I cannot point to the article. He has a Sunstone inteview on video saying his career has not been affected by church actions.

Groan...I am NOT a church Critic...geeze