A very Strang finding

[Rajah Manchou]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I’m referring to President Nelson when I say “a prophet of God acting under divine inspiration with regard to the name of the Church.” I don’t understand why that wasn’t clear to you. 

Because you could have been referring to Joseph Smith receiving the revelation regarding the name of the Church. I would agree with you in that case. 

In other words, Strangites are also faithful adherents of the restored Church of Jesus Christ, even they don't meet the condition you propose.

[AtlanticMike]

21 hours ago, smac97 said:

. Finally, I'm not sure what it is that caused you to "{break} out in a sweat and ... {turn} white as a ghost."  Do you want to clarify?

Not really sure tell you the truth. But I've always considered myself an 80% mormon and 20% realist. I've never been one to push Mormonism on anyone, even struggling mormons. I believe the best way to spread the gospel is through your actions, to make people wonder why in the hell this guy is so happy with life. I've experienced this hundreds of times throughout my life. People ask me all the time why I'm so happy, why I smile, and I've always thought it was my Mormonism and the comfort I get from believing in something that gives me answers to so many of lifes difficult questions. 

      But the more I research, the more my mormon/realist % changes. Today I feel like I'm 65% mormon and 35% realist. And the scariest part of the whole situation is that when I speak to people I've known my entire life about it, or ask questions about Mormonism, I'm starting to see a wall being built between most relationships.  There's no way to ask questions without making them uncomfortable, I'm starting to realize I have to stay silent if I want to keep a relationship with them. Now the biggest question to myself is, what happens if I reach 49% mormon and 51% realists. Do I lose all my relationships with my mormon friends, will it be to difficult for them to be around me? 

       Now, concerning the page I provided from the book of the law of the lord. I guess the realist side of me sees that page, and realizes that if the BOM is true, then the witnesses in the book of the law of the lord, should be a bunch of liars. I guess that's why I broke out in a sweat,  because if James Strang was able to manufacture plates and get 7 men to be witnesses of there authenticity, well, there's a chance the guy I have looked up to my whole life could of done the same exact thing and had 11 witnesses swear to the BOM authenticity. I'm starting to realize no matter how much I research, I'll just keep digging a hole so deep, at some point, I might not be able to climb out. 

      

     

Edited February 6, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[Calm]

54 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I'm starting to see a wall being built between most relationships.  There's no way to ask questions without making them uncomfortable,

Generally no one likes to be asked questions about things they don’t know much about, especially if it seems to mean a lot to someone  or one worries that person is going to make decisions based on what one says to them. 
 

Why not just find faithful members who are comfortable talking about such, like here or at FAIR? 
 

For me, it is the practical, realist side of me that keeps me strong. Nothing else makes sense/works as well for me for understanding the universe or making my life function. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Calm

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Generally no one likes to be asked questions about things they don’t know much about, especially if it seems to mean a lot to someone  or one worries that person is going to make decisions based on what one says to them. 
 

Why not just find faithful members who are comfortable talking about such, like here or at FAIR? 
 

For me, it is the practical, realist side of me that keeps me strong. Nothing else makes sense/works as well for me for understanding the universe or making my life function. 

Yes ma'am, I'm starting to see that I have to monitor what I say if I want to keep certain relationships healthy. I've just never realized the fragility of Mormonism up till now. 

[teddyaware]

2 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Not really sure tell you the truth. But I've always considered myself an 80% mormon and 20% realist. I've never been one to push Mormonism on anyone, even struggling mormons. I believe the best way to spread the gospel is through your actions, to make people wonder why in the hell this guy is so happy with life. I've experienced this hundreds of times throughout my life. People ask me all the time why I'm so happy, why I smile, and I've always thought it was my Mormonism and the comfort I get from believing in something that gives me answers to so many of lifes difficult questions. 

      But the more I research, the more my mormon/realist % changes. Today I feel like I'm 65% mormon and 35% realist. And the scariest part of the whole situation is that when I speak to people I've known my entire life about it, or ask questions about Mormonism, I'm starting to see a wall being built between most relationships.  There's no way to ask questions without making them uncomfortable, I'm starting to realize I have to stay silent if I want to keep a relationship with them. Now the biggest question to myself is, what happens if I reach 49% mormon and 51% realists. Do I lose all my relationships with my mormon friends, will it be to difficult for them to be around me? 

       Now, concerning the page I provided from the book of the law of the lord. I guess the realist side of me sees that page, and realizes that if the BOM is true, then the witnesses in the book of the law of the lord, should be a bunch of liars. I guess that's why I broke out in a sweat,  because if James Strang was able to manufacture plates and get 7 men to be witnesses of there authenticity, well, there's a chance the guy I have looked up to my whole life could of done the same exact thing and had 11 witnesses swear to the BOM authenticity. I'm starting to realize no matter how much I research, I'll just keep digging a hole so deep, at some point, I might not be able to climb out. 

      

     

Of course the correct answer for any truly faithful, testimony bearing member of the Church is to be 100% ‘Mormon’ and 0% realist. Can you honestly imagine Nephi saying he was 80% a follower of Christ and 20% a realist? And I’m wondering if in your mind the word realist is somewhat synonymous with skeptic? It appears that way because, by your own admission, you would not attempt to strengthen the faith of struggling Latter-Day Saints, which is something that I as a 100% believer could ever imagine doing. There have been many times in my life when wavering or shaken members have come to me for strengthening answers and encouragement and there was never a time when I let a single one of them down, always providing each inquirer with excellent answers to their questions and uplifting  words of encouragement that spring from my unshakable testimony of the restored gospel.

The fact of the matter is that when you say you’re now 65% ‘Mormon’ and 35% realist what you’re actually saying is that you’re a 65% believer and a 35% truster in the “arm of flesh.” Where you went wrong was in ever being comfortable and satisfied with being an 80% Mormon. A little bit of skepticism goes a long way, and being a 20% skeptic is untenable because, for example, a 20% breach in the fortress of testimony is more than enough of an opening to allow the enemies of your soul exceeding ease of entry. In fact, in warfare a 1% breach in a fortress is often more than enough to let a determined, bloodthirsty enemy inside to kill and conquer, the remaining fortress walls becoming totally ineffectual in holding back the invading tide. And as you can now surely see, a fortress with 35% of its walls torn down is no longer even a fortress but more like a trap.

Your goal should be going back to basics, with the realization that even a 20% breach in your testimony is untenable and can only get wider with the passage of time. Relying even .05% on the arm of flesh as a substitute .05% substitute for the Holy Ghost puts a testimony in mortal danger. The Book of Mormon clearly and repeatedly testifies that a 100% reliance on the Spirit of God is the only real answer because when the mighty, raging winds of the adversary begin to blow only those structures of faith built on the rock of revelation will be strong enough remain standing. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by teddyaware

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Because you could have been referring to Joseph Smith receiving the revelation regarding the name of the Church. I would agree with you in that case. 

In other words, Strangites are also faithful adherents of the restored Church of Jesus Christ, even they don't meet the condition you propose.

You are entitled to your opinion. I can’t agree with it. 
 

institutionally, the Strang group is not the restored Church of Jesus Christ. Ergo, sincere and earnest though they might be in their beliefs, “Strangites” are at best misled and thus are not adherents to the restored Church of Jesus Christ. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Not really sure tell you the truth. But I've always considered myself an 80% mormon and 20% realist. I've never been one to push Mormonism on anyone, even struggling mormons. I believe the best way to spread the gospel is through your actions, to make people wonder why in the hell this guy is so happy with life. I've experienced this hundreds of times throughout my life. People ask me all the time why I'm so happy, why I smile, and I've always thought it was my Mormonism and the comfort I get from believing in something that gives me answers to so many of lifes difficult questions. 

      But the more I research, the more my mormon/realist % changes. Today I feel like I'm 65% mormon and 35% realist. And the scariest part of the whole situation is that when I speak to people I've known my entire life about it, or ask questions about Mormonism, I'm starting to see a wall being built between most relationships.  There's no way to ask questions without making them uncomfortable, I'm starting to realize I have to stay silent if I want to keep a relationship with them. Now the biggest question to myself is, what happens if I reach 49% mormon and 51% realists. Do I lose all my relationships with my mormon friends, will it be to difficult for them to be around me? 

       Now, concerning the page I provided from the book of the law of the lord. I guess the realist side of me sees that page, and realizes that if the BOM is true, then the witnesses in the book of the law of the lord, should be a bunch of liars. I guess that's why I broke out in a sweat,  because if James Strang was able to manufacture plates and get 7 men to be witnesses of there authenticity, well, there's a chance the guy I have looked up to my whole life could of done the same exact thing and had 11 witnesses swear to the BOM authenticity. I'm starting to realize no matter how much I research, I'll just keep digging a hole so deep, at some point, I might not be able to climb out. 

      

     

Yep, it isn't called a "rabbit hole" for nothing! The only way to make it work is go by your own spiritual witness, and feeling the spirit in ways you want, not what someone tells you is the spirit. 

[Tacenda]

48 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Of course the correct answer for any truly faithful, testimony bearing member of the Church is to be 100% ‘Mormon’ and 0% realist. Can you honestly imagine Nephi saying he was 80% a follower of Christ and 20% a realist? And I’m wondering if in your mind the word realist is somewhat synonymous with skeptic? It appears that way because, by your own admission, you would not attempt to strengthen the faith of struggling Latter-Day Saints, which is something that I as a 100% believer could ever imagine doing. There have been many times in my life when wavering or shaken members have come to me for strengthening answers and encouragement and there was never a time when I let a single one of them down, always providing each inquirer with excellent answers to their questions and uplifting  words of encouragement that spring from my unshakable testimony of the restored gospel.

The fact of the matter is that when you say you’re now 65% ‘Mormon’ and 35% realist what you’re actually saying is that you’re a 65% believer and a 35% truster in the “arm of flesh.” Where you went wrong was in ever being comfortable and satisfied with being an 80% Mormon. A little bit of skepticism goes a long way, and being a 20% skeptic is untenable because, for example, a 20% breach in the fortress of testimony is more than enough of an opening to allow the enemies of your soul exceeding ease of entry. In fact, in warfare a 1% breach in a fortress is often more than enough to let a determined, bloodthirsty enemy inside to kill and conquer, the remaining fortress walls becoming totally ineffectual in holding back the invading tide. And as you can now surely see, a fortress with 35% of its walls torn down is no longer even a fortress but more like a trap.

Your goal should be going back to basics, with the realization that even a 20% breach in your testimony is untenable and can only get wider with the passage of time. Relying even .05% on the arm of flesh as a substitute .05% substitute for the Holy Ghost puts a testimony in mortal danger. The Book of Mormon clearly and repeatedly testifies that a 100% reliance on the Spirit of God is the only real answer because when the mighty, raging winds of the adversary begin to blow only those structures of faith built on the rock of revelation will be strong enough remain standing. 

I don't think Joseph Smith would agree, I think he was much like Mike, when he was doubting the religions or the religion he grew up with. He wanted to correct or make the religion better. I believe there's a quote out there that Joseph Smith said about critical thinking as well.

1. “President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel–said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church–that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls–applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall–that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves…” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 237-38).

Edited February 6, 2021 by Tacenda

[Rajah Manchou]

19 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

“Strangites” are at best misled and thus are not adherents to the restored Church of Jesus Christ. 

You're entitled to your opinion also, not going to agree with it. Moving on.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 2/5/2021 at 8:51 AM, bluebell said:

Any word on what happened to the plates in question?  

And no, having 5000 people follow him doesn't really give me any pause.  

Yep, and the RLDS Church (now Community of Christ) is much larger and has female priesthood.

[Robert F. Smith]

32 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Yep, it isn't called a "rabbit hole" for nothing! The only way to make it work is go by your own spiritual witness, and feeling the spirit in ways you want, not what someone tells you is the spirit. 

To thine own self be true?  Always let your conscience be your guide?  Pretty good advice.

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

..................... the scariest part of the whole situation is that when I speak to people I've known my entire life about it, or ask questions about Mormonism, I'm starting to see a wall being built between most relationships.  There's no way to ask questions without making them uncomfortable, I'm starting to realize I have to stay silent if I want to keep a relationship with them. Now the biggest question to myself is, what happens if I reach 49% mormon and 51% realists. Do I lose all my relationships with my mormon friends, will it be to difficult for them to be around me? 

Those friends of yours are not any smarter than you, and they don't know any more than you do.  So, they feel fear when confronted with difficult questions.  They are not scholars and likely don't actually have an intellectual understanding of the LDS or any other tradition.  You shouldn't expect too much of them nor of yourself in such matters.

3 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

       Now, concerning the page I provided from the book of the law of the lord. I guess the realist side of me sees that page, and realizes that if the BOM is true, then the witnesses in the book of the law of the lord, should be a bunch of liars. I guess that's why I broke out in a sweat,  because if James Strang was able to manufacture plates and get 7 men to be witnesses of there authenticity, well, there's a chance the guy I have looked up to my whole life could of done the same exact thing and had 11 witnesses swear to the BOM authenticity. I'm starting to realize no matter how much I research, I'll just keep digging a hole so deep, at some point, I might not be able to climb out.     

If your testimony is built upon a foundation of realia (hard forensic evidence) it may not be adequate to the questions you are asking.  There is no way to prove the historicity of biblical miracles -- the crossing of the Red Sea, the Resurrection of Jesus, etc.  These are matters of faith mediated by the Holy Spirit.  Gandhi always recommended that we turn the searchlight inward.  Thus, you might want to explore the basis of your own testimony.  You may also want to ask why there is such a stark difference inside you between realism and your faith -- are they really incompatible?

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

Of course the correct answer for any truly faithful, testimony bearing member of the Church is to be 100% ‘Mormon’ and 0% realist. ..................................

Where does that leave those like me who see no conflict between realism and the LDS faith?  I asked Mike the same question:  Are they really incompatible?

[AtlanticMike]

5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Of course the correct answer for any truly faithful, testimony bearing member of the Church is to be 100% ‘Mormon’ and 0% realist. Can you honestly imagine Nephi saying he was 80% a follower of Christ and 20% a realist? And I’m wondering if in your mind the word realist is somewhat synonymous with skeptic? It appears that way because, by your own admission, you would not attempt to strengthen the faith of struggling Latter-Day Saints, which is something that I as a 100% believer could ever imagine doing. There have been many times in my life when wavering or shaken members have come to me for strengthening answers and encouragement and there was never a time when I let a single one of them down, always providing each inquirer with excellent answers to their questions and uplifting  words of encouragement that spring from my unshakable testimony of the restored gospel.

The fact of the matter is that when you say you’re now 65% ‘Mormon’ and 35% realist what you’re actually saying is that you’re a 65% believer and a 35% truster in the “arm of flesh.” Where you went wrong was in ever being comfortable and satisfied with being an 80% Mormon. A little bit of skepticism goes a long way, and being a 20% skeptic is untenable because, for example, a 20% breach in the fortress of testimony is more than enough of an opening to allow the enemies of your soul exceeding ease of entry. In fact, in warfare a 1% breach in a fortress is often more than enough to let a determined, bloodthirsty enemy inside to kill and conquer, the remaining fortress walls becoming totally ineffectual in holding back the invading tide. And as you can now surely see, a fortress with 35% of its walls torn down is no longer even a fortress but more like a trap.

Your goal should be going back to basics, with the realization that even a 20% breach in your testimony is untenable and can only get wider with the passage of time. Relying even .05% on the arm of flesh as a substitute .05% substitute for the Holy Ghost puts a testimony in mortal danger. The Book of Mormon clearly and repeatedly testifies that a 100% reliance on the Spirit of God is the only real answer because when the mighty, raging winds of the adversary begin to blow only those structures of faith built on the rock of revelation will be strong enough remain standing. 

The fact that you believe the only way to be mormon is  "truly faithful, testimony bearing member of the church is to be 100% mormon", is exactly the reason why I cant speak openly to my friends about my doubts. Your point of view leaves no room for questions or meaningful dialogue among friends.

     I never said anything about believing 80% in christ, you insinuated that, because your a 100% believer in Mormonism. Plus, you have no idea if nephi ever questioned what he was doing was right or wrong.

    I never said I wouldn't try to strengthen the faith of a struggling latter day Saint. I just personally believe the last thing a struggling mormon wants to hear is a testimony of what someone believes about the church, at some point, people struggling, just want others to shut the hell up. If you've never experienced that then I cant help you understand. Example: I have a friend that has a severely addictive personality when it comes to any drug. No amount of scripture reading, testimony preaching, praying side by side with his mom, meeting his bishop, ever helped him, not for over a decade. He said, me staying his friend and never judging him kept him from killing himself. Me giving him a place to  shoot up when I knew he was about to commit suicide, he said saved his life a couple of times. This might be hard for you to believe, but nothing in the gospel would of helped him at that point in his life, he just wanted to be understood, and I'm sorry, but as you say, his family are the 100% mormon types, they couldn't deal with him without being judgemental, even if that judging was just minimal, he could feel it when he had to interact with them, and he couldn't personally deal with it. Fast foward, He now goes to church, his baby being born changed his entire life in a second, I personally saw it with my own eyes. The realist part of saved him, not the mormon part of me. He doesn't go to church because he believes in it, he goes to church because it is a stable environment for him and his family. Our bishop, one of my best friends knows this, and still gives him a temple reccomend. 

     The story I just told, you could probably say I used the "arm of flesh" as you say, to save my friends life by driving him to my garage and letting him shoot up until I could deal with him on a stable basis. He spent over a month sleeping in my garage slowly going from shooting up, to slowly just drinking and cigarettes then just a few drinks and cigarettes. His 100% mormon parents had already got burnt out with his "sin". My 80% Mormonism saved his life because I could actually see what he needed without walking around with a chip on my shoulder. Personally, I think christ would of done the exact same as I did. I just loved the guy and completely left my Mormonism out of the equation so he could breath and understand I didn't care if he was a sinner, I never used the word satan around him once, that's why he trusted me.

     Mormonism is different to everyone who practices it. The easiest way to push people away is to tell them there's just one way to practice Mormonism, the 100% way.

     

Edited February 6, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

Yes ma'am, I'm starting to see that I have to monitor what I say if I want to keep certain relationships healthy. I've just never realized the fragility of Mormonism up till now. 

From your own struggles with interpersonal relationships, I don’t believe it necessarily follows that the Church of Jesus Christ or members thereof are particularly fragile. 

[Chum]

9 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

The fact that you believe the only way to be mormon is  "truly faithful, testimony bearing member of the church is to be 100% mormon", is exactly the reason why I cant speak openly to my friends about my doubts. Your point of view leaves no room for questions or meaningful dialogue among friends.

This is a solid, realistic assertion. There's no inch of God's creation that thrives in rigidity, least of all us. Everything is transformation and transformation is built out of mistakes.  Our very best possible selves exist in a state of incompleteness.

[Tacenda]

4 minutes ago, Chum said:

This is a solid, realistic assertion. There's no inch of God's creation that thrives in rigidity, least of all us. Everything is transformation and transformation is built out of mistakes.  Our very best possible selves exist in a state of incompleteness.

True, and if we're perfect do we need Christ? Of course I need to know something is out there beyond this earth life, and I do need Christ's example of loving everyone and those that sin seem to need love the most. So @AtlanticMike's example is very Christ like. But those that would have judged or given up on him, not very Christlike. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Tacenda

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, Chum said:

This is a solid, realistic assertion. There's no inch of God's creation that thrives in rigidity, least of all us. Everything is transformation and transformation is built out of mistakes.  Our very best possible selves exist in a state of incompleteness.

Bear in mind that “God’s creation” to which I assume you refer is a mortal realm that is temporal, finite and fallible. It would be myopic to jump to the conclusion that He or His laws are thus temporal, finite and fallible. 

[Scott Lloyd]

40 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Where does that leave those like me who see no conflict between realism and the LDS faith?  I asked Mike the same question:  Are they really incompatible?

If each is fully understood, I would answer no, they are not. 
 

But therein is the rub: Some things at present cannot be fully understood. 

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Those friends of yours are not any smarter than you, and they don't know any more than you do.  So, they feel fear when confronted with difficult questions.  They are not scholars and likely don't actually have an intellectual understanding of the LDS or any other tradition.  You shouldn't expect too much of them nor of yourself in such matters.

If your testimony is built upon a foundation of realia (hard forensic evidence) it may not be adequate to the questions you are asking.  There is no way to prove the historicity of biblical miracles -- the crossing of the Red Sea, the Resurrection of Jesus, etc.  These are matters of faith mediated by the Holy Spirit.  Gandhi always recommended that we turn the searchlight inward.  Thus, you might want to explore the basis of your own testimony.  You may also want to ask why there is such a stark difference inside you between realism and your faith -- are they really incompatible?

Actually I think they are compatible. I know it sounds really odd to put a percentage on Mormonism, but it's the best way I know how to explain it. Throughout my life I've seen people who have  said they have such a strong testimony, they can't understand some things in mortal life, can't be solved through the lens of Mormonism. In my opinion, sometimes you got to get in the muck and hope your testimony is strong enough to pull you back up, out of the muck. If you read my story above about my friend doing drugs, I feel like I probably went outside of what I probably should of legally, but I didnt care, I felt my friend needed to be alive so he could try one more time to kick his terrible addictions. His parents on the other hand, understandably, reached the end of their rope with him, they wanted nothing to do with him, and I understand why. But I lied to them and anyone else who asked me where he was, I was willing to lie to the police if it came down to it. I love him, and consider myself extremely lucky it worked out like it did. I went outside of what a "typical mormon" would of done I think. 

     I've seen so many relationships ruined because either one or both sides dont leave themselves any room for compromise. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[AtlanticMike]

30 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

From your own struggles with interpersonal relationships, I don’t believe it necessarily follows that the Church of Jesus Christ or members thereof are particularly fragile. 

All I know, is compared to how i felt my entire life about Mormonism, it feels extremely fragile now. But I'm trying, and I dont give up just to give up, that's not who I am.

[mfbukowski]

How many Buddhists are there?

Hang in there and pray, pray pray.

The answers are not in history but in your heart. 😉

 I have seen it all again and again and that is where the answer lies.

Edited February 6, 2021 by mfbukowski

[CV75]

15 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

All I know, is compared to how i felt my entire life about Mormonism, it feels extremely fragile now. But I'm trying, and I dont give up just to give up, that's not who I am.

What would you say is your #1 concern that had led you to feeling fragile about your involvement?

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I don't think Joseph Smith would agree, I think he was much like Mike, when he was doubting the religions or the religion he grew up with. He wanted to correct or make the religion better. I believe there's a quote out there that Joseph Smith said about critical thinking as well.

1. “President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel–said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church–that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls–applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall–that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves…” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 237-38).

Isn’t the quote you provided saying exactly what I said: A person must independently receive revelation from God, through the Holy Ghost, and become a prophet or prophetess within his or her own stewardship before they will ever be able to truly know eternal truth. What I wrote expresses the opposite of depending on another man to know the truth, even if that man is the head prophet of the Church. It’s like Moses once wistfully said, “would to God that all men were prophets.”

The only way the Church will ever become a Zion people, truly worthy of the fellowship of the citizens of the descending New Jerusalem, is if every member is filled with the Spirit of revelation and knows for certain through personal revelation from the Holy Ghost, independently and on their own, that that Jesus is the Christ and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the one true and living Church.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

14 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

All I know, is compared to how i felt my entire life about Mormonism, it feels extremely fragile now. But I'm trying, and I dont give up just to give up, that's not who I am.

Regardless of what becomes of you or me, the Church will last on through to the Millennium and fulfill its purpose to prepare the world for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. We need only attend to our own individual state and readiness in relation to it — and rescue others to the extent we can. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Scott Lloyd