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Did Jesus visit all the spirit worlds in three days?


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There have been some scriptures and words of past prophets that have suggested the following:
Jesus is the savior of all the inhabitants of all the worlds He created:
 "Except for his mortal ministry accomplished on this earth, his service and relationship to other worlds and their inhabitants are the same as his service and relationship to this earth and its inhabitants" (Improvement Era, Nov. 1968, 46). MarionG. Romney)

The Spirit world for our planet somehow exists with us on this planet.
"When you lay down this tabernacle, where are you going? Into the spiritual world…Where is the spirit world? It is right here. Do the good and evil spirits go together? Yes they do…. Do they go beyond the boundaries of the organized earth? No, they do not. [Discourses of Brigham Young, ed. John A. Widtsoe, pp. 376-81. Salt Lake City, 1946.].

All the other worlds created by Jesus have their own spirit worlds that exist on their own planet. 
"As to its location, [the spirit world] is here on the very planet where we were born; or, in other words, the earth and other planets of a like sphere, have their inward or spiritual spheres, as well as their outward, or temporal. The one is peopled by temporal tabernacles, and the other by spirits. A vail [sic] is drawn between the one sphere and the other, whereby all the objects in the spiritual sphere are rendered invisible to those in the temporal. (Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (London: Latter-day Saints’ Book Depot, 1855), 80.)

Because Jesus is the savior of all inhabitants of all the planets can one logically assume that during the three days between
His death and resurrection He somehow visited all the spirit worlds of all those other planets and organized His missionary forces? (Possibly D&C 88:41-61)
Or was it only our spirit world?

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42 minutes ago, JAHS said:

There have been some scriptures and words of past prophets that have suggested the following:
Jesus is the savior of all the inhabitants of all the worlds He created:
 "Except for his mortal ministry accomplished on this earth, his service and relationship to other worlds and their inhabitants are the same as his service and relationship to this earth and its inhabitants" (Improvement Era, Nov. 1968, 46). MarionG. Romney)

The Spirit world for our planet somehow exists with us on this planet.
"When you lay down this tabernacle, where are you going? Into the spiritual world…Where is the spirit world? It is right here. Do the good and evil spirits go together? Yes they do…. Do they go beyond the boundaries of the organized earth? No, they do not. [Discourses of Brigham Young, ed. John A. Widtsoe, pp. 376-81. Salt Lake City, 1946.].

All the other worlds created by Jesus have their own spirit worlds that exist on their own planet. 
"As to its location, [the spirit world] is here on the very planet where we were born; or, in other words, the earth and other planets of a like sphere, have their inward or spiritual spheres, as well as their outward, or temporal. The one is peopled by temporal tabernacles, and the other by spirits. A vail [sic] is drawn between the one sphere and the other, whereby all the objects in the spiritual sphere are rendered invisible to those in the temporal. (Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (London: Latter-day Saints’ Book Depot, 1855), 80.)

Because Jesus is the savior of all inhabitants of all the planets can one logically assume that during the three days between
His death and resurrection He somehow visited all the spirit worlds of all those other planets and organized His missionary forces? (Possibly D&C 88:41-61)
Or was it only our spirit world?

If Jesus went to every spirit world out there and there are trillions of spirit worlds, he spent less like a microsecond in each one.  I see no reason to expand his stay beyond our spirit world here.

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5 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

If Jesus went to every spirit world out there and there are trillions of spirit worlds, he spent less like a microsecond in each one.  I see no reason to expand his stay beyond our spirit world here.

You are assuming earth time is the same as God's (heaven's) time. In God's time I am only 98 minutes old.  😊
So did He not organize missionaries to preach the gospel to the spirits in the prisons of those other spirit worlds?

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12 hours ago, JAHS said:

There have been some scriptures and words of past prophets that have suggested the following:
Jesus is the savior of all the inhabitants of all the worlds He created:
 "Except for his mortal ministry accomplished on this earth, his service and relationship to other worlds and their inhabitants are the same as his service and relationship to this earth and its inhabitants" (Improvement Era, Nov. 1968, 46). MarionG. Romney)

The Spirit world for our planet somehow exists with us on this planet.
"When you lay down this tabernacle, where are you going? Into the spiritual world…Where is the spirit world? It is right here. Do the good and evil spirits go together? Yes they do…. Do they go beyond the boundaries of the organized earth? No, they do not. [Discourses of Brigham Young, ed. John A. Widtsoe, pp. 376-81. Salt Lake City, 1946.].

All the other worlds created by Jesus have their own spirit worlds that exist on their own planet. 
"As to its location, [the spirit world] is here on the very planet where we were born; or, in other words, the earth and other planets of a like sphere, have their inward or spiritual spheres, as well as their outward, or temporal. The one is peopled by temporal tabernacles, and the other by spirits. A vail [sic] is drawn between the one sphere and the other, whereby all the objects in the spiritual sphere are rendered invisible to those in the temporal. (Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (London: Latter-day Saints’ Book Depot, 1855), 80.)

Because Jesus is the savior of all inhabitants of all the planets can one logically assume that during the three days between
His death and resurrection He somehow visited all the spirit worlds of all those other planets and organized His missionary forces? (Possibly D&C 88:41-61)
Or was it only our spirit world?

Quote

"29 And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding aquickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the bwicked and the disobedient who had rejected the truth, to teach them;

30 But behold, from among the righteous, he aorganized his forces and appointed bmessengers, cclothed with power and authority, and dcommissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in edarkness, even to fall the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the aacceptable day of the Lord and proclaim bliberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would crepent of their sins and receive the gospel.

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had adied in their sins, without a bknowledge of the truth, or in ctransgression, having drejected the prophets.

33 These were taught afaith in God, repentance from sin, bvicarious baptism for the cremission of sins, the dgift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands," Doctrine and Covenants 138

We know from this scripture that he had representatives who visited some, so that's an option.  As for whether or not he visited all other spirit worlds, I don't think there is enough information to answer this, and since it's not really relative to our mortality, I'm not sure it matters that we have an answer right now. imo

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I thought everyone knew that God as a time machine designed by Elon Musk.  He got the new all-electric sports car version which looks exactly like a Tesla.  It's made of gold - or actually gold plated - He is thrifty but everything that touches Him as to be Temple quality.  The gold is out of the same mine that produced the gold plates 8P

So no problem.  He goes to one planet, hangs out for as long as necessary- maybe even a couple of hundred years- then when business is done he just turns back time.

I mean it's even in the Bible- Joshua stopped the sun.   If he could do that, what can God do?

I wouldn't worry about it either way.

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Or he organized his followers to spread the word to other worlds or our world is somehow unique or both.

Perhaps you have heard the story that our world is actually special, because we live the single worst one of Father's creations, because only we would crucify our God.

I don't think that's scriptural, btw. Just something I read once in a book...

 

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4 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Perhaps you have heard the story that our world is actually special, because we live the single worst one of Father's creations, because only we would crucify our God.

I don't think that's scriptural, btw. Just something I read once in a book...

This is the usual scriptural source:

36 Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren.

37 But behold, their sins shall be upon the heads of their fathers; Satan shall be their father, and misery shall be their doom; and the whole heavens shall weep over them, even all the workmanship of mine hands; wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?

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19 hours ago, JAHS said:

There have been some scriptures and words of past prophets that have suggested the following:
Jesus is the savior of all the inhabitants of all the worlds He created:
 "Except for his mortal ministry accomplished on this earth, his service and relationship to other worlds and their inhabitants are the same as his service and relationship to this earth and its inhabitants" (Improvement Era, Nov. 1968, 46). MarionG. Romney)

The Spirit world for our planet somehow exists with us on this planet.
"When you lay down this tabernacle, where are you going? Into the spiritual world…Where is the spirit world? It is right here. Do the good and evil spirits go together? Yes they do…. Do they go beyond the boundaries of the organized earth? No, they do not. [Discourses of Brigham Young, ed. John A. Widtsoe, pp. 376-81. Salt Lake City, 1946.].

All the other worlds created by Jesus have their own spirit worlds that exist on their own planet. 
"As to its location, [the spirit world] is here on the very planet where we were born; or, in other words, the earth and other planets of a like sphere, have their inward or spiritual spheres, as well as their outward, or temporal. The one is peopled by temporal tabernacles, and the other by spirits. A vail [sic] is drawn between the one sphere and the other, whereby all the objects in the spiritual sphere are rendered invisible to those in the temporal. (Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (London: Latter-day Saints’ Book Depot, 1855), 80.)

Because Jesus is the savior of all inhabitants of all the planets can one logically assume that during the three days between
His death and resurrection He somehow visited all the spirit worlds of all those other planets and organized His missionary forces? (Possibly D&C 88:41-61)
Or was it only our spirit world?

You need to open up your mind to see all the possibilities.

To start with, how does the Father know how you will turn out in the end? Could you possibly surprise Him?  Of course not, because He has already seen how you will go.  You don't know, because you haven't lived it yet, and you are still in Time and are bound in it. But Father sees the entire Universe from its creation (the Big Bang) to its final whimper, possibly several quadrillion years from now. it is all there already. He cannot be surprised. You might be surprised, but Him? Never.

As a computer programmer I once contemplated how it was possible/reasonable for God to be able to comprehend the entire Universe, which is billions and billions of light years across, and contains quadrillions and quadrillions of stars, planets, and so on.  The problem that occurred to me is memory space, and this is actually the only problem, but what a problem!. The maximum amount of information a processor can deal with is limited by the amount of memory (not talking disk drive here, just the memory). If your laptop has 8 GB of memory, only that much information can be loaded into its active memory at one time.  The processor can increase the amount of data it can deal with by storing data out of active memory, but where it can access it within just a few milliseconds. So it has a disk drive. My laptop has 8 GB of memory, but 2 TB of disk space. I have four supplementary drives of 4 TB each, so my laptop can access and use 18 TB of data. That might seem like a lot, but if I were to try to put all of Wikipedia into it all, I'd run out of space. And then we have the sum total of all information that the human race has so far developed.  I'd have to buy a LOT of drive space.

So as a result I had a conundrum: how can God have knowledge of all that he has created?  The amount of data space he would need would in fact exceed the size of the Universe itself, because not only does he have to know how things are in this exact moment, he has to know the precise location, condition, and specification of every single quark, every single photon, and every single quantum fluctuation in the entire Universe, for every nanosecond of these, for the entire life of the Universe. And I felt that that problem was actually insurmountable -- to know it all, God would have to have a memory storage, immediately accessible, that was almost literally infinite.  And if God had such a computer, would He use Microsoft Windows or Linux?

That last item is a bit of a joke.

Anyway, the problem actually turned out to have a simple solution. The entire Universe IS the memory store.  The thing itself, that He can see from beginning to end, IS the record of it all.  

And, if God can see it all from beginning to end, irrespective of Time (which is a limitation only for us), then upon Christ's death and before His resurrection, he would have had no problem at all visiting every single Spirit World, of every single world that the Father caused to come into being, no matter whether the SW of a given world had passed already and their Millennium was long past (relative to us), or the SW of a given world that hadn't yet come into being (relative to us). 

Neither the Father, nor Christ, nor the Holy Ghost, exist in Time (alone). And once we are done with all that we have to do here, neither will we. For we all are Eternal beings, and we humans are just temporarily struggling in Time, foolishly believing that what we see with our mortal eyes is all there is or can be.

Once I realized all of this, all the supposed problems became meaningless.

But as physicist Richard Feynman once famously said, "If you think you understand quantum physics, you don't understand quantum physics!" So, I still see through a glass darkly! But I think I have managed, for myself at least, to have scratched a slight bit of the soot off the glass, and have seen a teensy bit more than some others have seen. 

Or I may be completely off. 

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20 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This is the usual scriptural source:

36 Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren.

37 But behold, their sins shall be upon the heads of their fathers; Satan shall be their father, and misery shall be their doom; and the whole heavens shall weep over them, even all the workmanship of mine hands; wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?

Very good, thanks! I remember this now, I just needed to be reminded!

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20 hours ago, JAHS said:

Because Jesus is the savior of all inhabitants of all the planets can one logically assume that during the three days between
His death and resurrection He somehow visited all the spirit worlds of all those other planets and organized His missionary forces? (Possibly D&C 88:41-61)
Or was it only our spirit world?

A TL;DR of what I wrote above in my previous reply might be this: he didn't need to compress it all into three days.  He had all the time in the Universe to get it all done. Because He lives outside of Time.

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3 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

A TL;DR of what I wrote above in my previous reply might be this: he didn't need to compress it all into three days.  He had all the time in the Universe to get it all done. Because He lives outside of Time.

That's kind of what I was referring to earlier when I said God's time is not the same as our time, if indeed there is such a thing as time in God's sphere.
It seems to me however that since our world was the most wicked and the one that Christ performed the atonement on, that all those other worlds would have to wait for that event to happen before they can progress.
So it seems like they would all have to be progressing on relatively the same time line that we are in and at the same time. Maybe they have different doctrines and scriptures that explain it for their existence and level of progression.
 

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12 minutes ago, JAHS said:

That's kind of what I was referring to earlier when I said God's time is not the same as our time, if indeed there is such a thing as time in God's sphere.
It seems to me however that since our world was the most wicked and the one that Christ performed the atonement on, that all those other worlds would have to wait for that event to happen before they can progress.

No, you're missing the point.

12 minutes ago, JAHS said:


So it seems like they would all have to be progressing on relatively the same time line that we are in and at the same time. Maybe they have different doctrines and scriptures that explain it for their existence and level of progression.
 

They are all in our time line, including the ones that have preceded us, the ones that are contemporary with us, and the ones that are in our future.

Christ's Atonement took place for all of them, past, present and future, as if they were present for it personally. It may have been revealed for them differently than it was for us, but it was operative for them at the proper moment, in their relative time.

But God and Christ are NOT restricted to our time line, because they exist outside of Time.  What I am trying to tell you is this: Christ visited all their Spirit Worlds during the time when their Spirit Worlds were actively populated with post-mortality spirits.  Because all of Time is one to God. And there is no need to have different doctrines.  

It doesn't really matter that they did not "see" Christ's Atonement the way we did, which is that it happened on our planet. Now, it is as if it happened in a Galaxy, Far, Far Away, to them, but it would be just as real to them as it is to us.  Because you and I personally didn't see it either.

 

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1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

No, you're missing the point.

They are all in our time line, including the ones that have preceded us, the ones that are contemporary with us, and the ones that are in our future.

Christ's Atonement took place for all of them, past, present and future, as if they were present for it personally. It may have been revealed for them differently than it was for us, but it was operative for them at the proper moment, in their relative time.

But God and Christ are NOT restricted to our time line, because they exist outside of Time.  What I am trying to tell you is this: Christ visited all their Spirit Worlds during the time when their Spirit Worlds were actively populated with post-mortality spirits.  Because all of Time is one to God. And there is no need to have different doctrines.  

It doesn't really matter that they did not "see" Christ's Atonement the way we did, which is that it happened on our planet. Now, it is as if it happened in a Galaxy, Far, Far Away, to them, but it would be just as real to them as it is to us.  Because you and I personally didn't see it either.

 

No need to have different core doctrines but perhaps a need to have different scriptures and things that prophets told them that explains that it didn't happen on their world but that it did happen.

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22 hours ago, JAHS said:

There have been some scriptures and words of past prophets that have suggested the following:
Jesus is the savior of all the inhabitants of all the worlds He created:
 "Except for his mortal ministry accomplished on this earth, his service and relationship to other worlds and their inhabitants are the same as his service and relationship to this earth and its inhabitants" (Improvement Era, Nov. 1968, 46). MarionG. Romney)

The Spirit world for our planet somehow exists with us on this planet.
"When you lay down this tabernacle, where are you going? Into the spiritual world…Where is the spirit world? It is right here. Do the good and evil spirits go together? Yes they do…. Do they go beyond the boundaries of the organized earth? No, they do not. [Discourses of Brigham Young, ed. John A. Widtsoe, pp. 376-81. Salt Lake City, 1946.].

All the other worlds created by Jesus have their own spirit worlds that exist on their own planet. 
"As to its location, [the spirit world] is here on the very planet where we were born; or, in other words, the earth and other planets of a like sphere, have their inward or spiritual spheres, as well as their outward, or temporal. The one is peopled by temporal tabernacles, and the other by spirits. A vail [sic] is drawn between the one sphere and the other, whereby all the objects in the spiritual sphere are rendered invisible to those in the temporal. (Parley P. Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology (London: Latter-day Saints’ Book Depot, 1855), 80.)

Because Jesus is the savior of all inhabitants of all the planets can one logically assume that during the three days between
His death and resurrection He somehow visited all the spirit worlds of all those other planets and organized His missionary forces? (Possibly D&C 88:41-61)
Or was it only our spirit world?

In light the following verses from the Book of Moses, it appears that the Lord visiting and proclaiming the day of salvation to millions of spirit worlds within the same brief span of time appears quite unlikely.

31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.

32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I knowthem.

36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.

37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.

38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. (Moses 1)

There must be some other explanation.

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23 hours ago, JAHS said:

Because Jesus is the savior of all inhabitants of all the planets can one logically assume that during the three days between
His death and resurrection He somehow visited all the spirit worlds of all those other planets and organized His missionary forces? (Possibly D&C 88:41-61)
Or was it only our spirit world?

Jesus would not have to visit every planet.  A broadcast of some sort can easily be sent to all of them simultaneously.  They will implement the new "program."  The Holy Ghost will inspire callings and ratify all the procedures.

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14 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

In light the following verses from the Book of Moses, it appears that the Lord visiting and proclaiming the day of salvation to millions of spirit worlds within the same brief span of time appears quite unlikely.

31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.

32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth.

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I knowthem.

36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.

37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.

38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. (Moses 1)

There must be some other explanation.

I suppose it would not have to have happened during the three days for all the planets; just ours. He could have perhaps visited the other spirit worlds at other times. 

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4 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I suppose it would not have to have happened during the three days for all the planets; just ours. He could have perhaps visited the other spirit worlds at other times. 

I believe the answer is likely more arcane and profound than most would imagine.

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5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Once I realized all of this, all the supposed problems became meaningless.

But as physicist Richard Feynman once famously said, "If you think you understand quantum physics, you don't understand quantum physics!" So, I still see through a glass darkly! But I think I have managed, for myself at least, to have scratched a slight bit of the soot off the glass, and have seen a teensy bit more than some others have seen. 

Or I may be completely off

I hope I can become as nice as you.

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4 hours ago, Stargazer said:

No, you're missing the point.

They are all in our time line, including the ones that have preceded us, the ones that are contemporary with us, and the ones that are in our future.

Christ's Atonement took place for all of them, past, present and future, as if they were present for it personally. It may have been revealed for them differently than it was for us, but it was operative for them at the proper moment, in their relative time.

But God and Christ are NOT restricted to our time line, because they exist outside of Time.  What I am trying to tell you is this: Christ visited all their Spirit Worlds during the time when their Spirit Worlds were actively populated with post-mortality spirits.  Because all of Time is one to God. And there is no need to have different doctrines.  

It doesn't really matter that they did not "see" Christ's Atonement the way we did, which is that it happened on our planet. Now, it is as if it happened in a Galaxy, Far, Far Away, to them, but it would be just as real to them as it is to us.  Because you and I personally didn't see it either.

 

For me it is kind of like the way memory works for us.  We think of something in the past and then we "are there" and can recount what happened-except of course our memories are imperfect.   God can "be present" to any time or experience- I don't think that he is necessarily outside time- it's just that he can calculate the future perfectly from the present, like the best chess player might be able to know perfectly what a 2 year old bright chess player will do in any situation.   It's like he can calculate the future as working out a vast equation from the state of the present, and so in that sense he "knows" the future, and he has perfect memory of the past of course, knowing all that has happened, and experientially can "be" at any time or place.

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7 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I don't think that's scriptural, btw. Just something I read once in a book...

 

Any opportunity to reference Garak is a plus.  And when looking at theories concerning the mysteries of eternities...

elim-garak-all-true.gif

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On 11/15/2020 at 2:15 AM, JAHS said:

No need to have different core doctrines but perhaps a need to have different scriptures and things that prophets told them that explains that it didn't happen on their world but that it did happen.

Of course.

I once started to write a science fiction short story that involved this idea. Unfortunately, I know how to start stories, but have I ever finished one? Nope.

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On 11/15/2020 at 5:37 AM, mfbukowski said:

I don't think that he is necessarily outside time

How could He be otherwise?

An eternal being isn't merely long-lived. Such a being must exist outside of time. 

Believe it or not, Professor Stephen Hawking, who was a profound atheist, made it very clear. In his last book (published posthumously) he wrote:

Quote

As we travel back in time towards the moment of the Big Bang, the universe gets smaller and smaller and smaller, until it finally comes to a point where the whole universe is a space so small that it is in effect a single infinitesimally small, infinitesimally dense black hole. And just as with modern-day black holes, floating around in space, the laws of nature dictate something quite extraordinary. They tell us that here too time itself must come to a stop. You can’t get to a time before the Big Bang because there was no time before the Big Bang. We have finally found something that doesn’t have a cause, because there was no time for a cause to exist in. For me this means that there is no possibility of a creator, because there is no time for a creator to have existed in.

In the same chapter, he writes:

Quote

I think the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the laws of science.

Note that this is what he "thinks", or this is his opinion, and it is quite logical, absent a creator that exists independently and outside the universe. Now, you can either trust Hawking, or not, but as for me I do believe this line of thought of his makes it abundantly clear that if God exist at all, He must exist outside of time.

When he writes "We have finally found something that doesn’t have a cause, because there was no time for a cause to exist in," Hawking is saying that the "cause" couldn't have existed in the universe itself, because for the cause to exist in the universe, it would have needed to cause itself.  Or, in other words, for the Creator to have existed in the creation, he would have needed to create himself! This is absurd, of course, and it should be obvious that the Creator would have had to pre-exist this Universe and be outside it -- and its time -- in order to create it!  

This also logically leads to the fact that the Creator sees the entire Universe, and everything that happens in it, including all time in our past and in our future.

He doesn't need to "figure it out."

 

Edited by Stargazer
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If Jesus ain't going to every world that's been created and living their as the savior then dying and coming back to life to tell them they can live again, then what the hell else is he doing?  God's listening to the prayers, I thought.  He can't be doing that.  He ain't no Holy Ghost messing with people's inside feelings and stuff.  He must be doing something.  He gotsta go live his 30 some odd years on each planet, teach them things about how they should love strangers and hate family, and how he and God don't know most of them and never will and all of that.  He's got some goodish news to spread to some of each world's inhabitants and to the rest, well he never knew them anyway.  

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On 11/15/2020 at 6:25 AM, JLHPROF said:

Any opportunity to reference Garak is a plus.  And when looking at theories concerning the mysteries of eternities...

elim-garak-all-true.gif

That is my very favorite Garak quote! Your enthusiasm for Garak leads me to hold you even higher in my estimation than before!

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