Did Jesus visit all the spirit worlds in three days?

[stemelbow]

6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Three persons, one God.

535 people, one Congress.

50 people one family

archangels

ministering angels

"missionaries" in the spirit world.

Gosh you really go out of your way to imagine non-issues- this is GOD we are talking about.

Hah.funny.  It seems to me you go our of your way to imagine non-issues where issues lie.  When you speak of God you merely speak of that character floating around in your imagination.  

Edited November 18, 2020 by Nemesis
Fixed typo

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Hah..FUnny.  It seems to me you go our of your way to imagine non-issues where issues lie.  When you speak of God you merely speak of that character floating around in your imagination.  

In my mind, of course but not in my imagination.  Billion agree with me and actually agree with me.

But then everything YOU know- like all of us- is also only in your mind even if there are billions of people who also have everything they know "only" in their minds. 

Where else would be things that you or anyone knows?

 This is not exactly news. 

But I have spoken to this imaginary character.  And so have others.   That is the whole point.  Imaginary characters don't talk back to billions of people.  

And you tell me that Star Wars doesn't work because we don't have warp drive and spend half your life repeating it posting how Star Wars could not possibly work.   Or all that stuff about Bilbo Baggins and his world. 

Maybe you should take on Santa Claus or Mickey Mouse too!      That's a great use of your intellect, and seems a quite appropriate.   Have a great life.

 

[Stargazer]

On 11/17/2020 at 1:49 PM, stemelbow said:

Certainly people can believe whatever they want.  Just curious though, my question went unaddressed, if Jesus is not being the Savior again and again for all these worlds, what is he doing?

That's easy. He's doing the same things he does here. Who's the God of the Old Testament? Jesus is. Who visited Adam and Eve with the Father when they were driven from the GoE? Jesus did. Any of a million things that Jesus, as Yah-weh and as Christ, has been doing here, he's been doing in all those other worlds. It's a full-time occupation. If his atonement here was the only time he suffered for the sins of mankind, that means he is now freed-up from having to do that one single thing on all these other worlds. There's still plenty of work to do.

On 11/17/2020 at 1:49 PM, stemelbow said:

I mean God has many billions times many billions of thoughts to sort through, every second of every day--that adds up, I'd imagine.  The Holy Ghost has many billions times many billions of spirits to either inhabit, touch or feel offended by (when the subjects been naughty) every second of every day.  Jesus and the women seem to be sitting around twittling thumbs and such.  Or are they all eaves dropping on prayers or trying to help control the Holy Ghost's many manifestations?  

You seem to be hung up on the apparent impossibility of it all. Do you truly think that God has your limitations, and can only do or think one thing at a time? I get it that you may not believe in God these days, so no surprise that you're thinking this way. Remember Bruce Almighty? Here's where you seem to be:

HOWEVER, God is not Bruce Almighty, or even Morgan Freeman, or even George Burns.

You can only think of one thing at a time, and so perhaps your piddly little imagination (no offense intended, mine is piddly, too) cannot embrace anyone or anything being able to exceed your abilities. 

Have you ever heard of The Connection Machine? There were actually several variants, and further developments in computational science greatly exceed even the power of the CM-5, which could model the earth's entire weather system in real time (probably not very precisely, but I digress). The CM-5 makes your desktop or laptop look like a pocket calculator in comparison.  And God's capabilities compare to your capabilities at this time (as a mortal being) in a similar way, but certainly more profoundly.

 

 

[Stargazer]

23 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Wait a minute....  dang I am late for my meeting for Save the Whales

Collect the whole set!

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Gosh you really go out of your way to imagine non-issues- this is GOD we are talking about.

He has left off asking questions, and now gets his fun making mock. These "What's his Dad doing?" questions aren't serious. They are attempts to mock what he considers silly.

I guess if I had a similar outlook, I might feel the same way. After all, I laugh at flat-earthers, don't I? 

There's almost no point in addressing questions like this, but if it's fun, why not?

[Ahab]

3 hours ago, stemelbow said:

There is no good reason to accept there is a God to start with.  

Please pay attention this time, as this will now be the humpteen jillionth time I've tried to straighten you out on the "God" issue.  

1. The word "God" is a word we and others commonly use to refer to the most supreme kind of being in all of existence.

2. We are the most supreme kind of being in all of existence, and all of us who have ever been born on this planet have a Father in common, provable by determining our family history.

3. Hence there is a good reason to accept there is a God as that term correctly applies to all of us who are the same kind of being as the Father we all have in common.

[stemelbow]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

In my mind, of course but not in my imagination.  Billion agree with me and actually agree with me.

But then everything YOU know- like all of us- is also only in your mind even if there are billions of people who also have everything they know "only" in their minds. 

Where else would be things that you or anyone knows?

 This is not exactly news. 

But I have spoken to this imaginary character.  And so have others.   That is the whole point.  Imaginary characters don't talk back to billions of people.  

And you tell me that Star Wars doesn't work because we don't have warp drive and spend half your life repeating it posting how Star Wars could not possibly work.   Or all that stuff about Bilbo Baggins and his world. 

Maybe you should take on Santa Claus or Mickey Mouse too!      That's a great use of your intellect, and seems a quite appropriate.   Have a great life.

 

Every God believer sees God differently than you.  So, no, you don't have a billion people who agree.  Many traditional Christians, as it were, would disagree with you profusely that God is material.  

[Ahab]

24 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

He has left off asking questions, and now gets his fun making mock. These "What's his Dad doing?" questions aren't serious. They are attempts to mock what he considers silly.

I guess if I had a similar outlook, I might feel the same way. After all, I laugh at flat-earthers, don't I? 

There's almost no point in addressing questions like this, but if it's fun, why not?

It's called target practice.  Once we're able to withstand all of the fiery darts of our arch nemesis, Satan, everyone else on that side is pretty easy to beat.

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, stemelbow said:

Every God believer sees God differently than you. 

Not really.  We all agree that he is our Father and that he now lives in a place we call heaven.

 

[stemelbow]

4 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Please pay attention this time, as this will now be the humpteen jillionth time I've tried to straighten you out on the "God" issue.  

1. The word "God" is a word we and others commonly use to refer to the most supreme kind of being in all of existence.

2. We are the most supreme kind of being in all of existence, and all of us who have ever been born on this planet have a Father in common, provable by determining our family history.

How do you propose we prove that we all have a common father?  

4 minutes ago, Ahab said:

3. Hence there is a good reason to accept there is a God as that term correctly applies to all of us who are the same kind of being as the Father we all have in common.

You jumped from humans are the most supreme to the most common father of the humans is God.  I mean, the logic is extraordinarily odd.  But it's an interesting spin on the Adam/God theory.  

[stemelbow]

38 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

That's easy. He's doing the same things he does here. Who's the God of the Old Testament? Jesus is. Who visited Adam and Eve with the Father when they were driven from the GoE? Jesus did. Any of a million things that Jesus, as Yah-weh and as Christ, has been doing here, he's been doing in all those other worlds. It's a full-time occupation. If his atonement here was the only time he suffered for the sins of mankind, that means he is now freed-up from having to do that one single thing on all these other worlds. There's still plenty of work to do.

So visiting people in vision is work?  I wonder what it feels like.  

38 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

You seem to be hung up on the apparent impossibility of it all. Do you truly think that God has your limitations, and can only do or think one thing at a time? I get it that you may not believe in God these days, so no surprise that you're thinking this way. Remember Bruce Almighty? Here's where you seem to be:

HOWEVER, God is not Bruce Almighty, or even Morgan Freeman, or even George Burns.

You can only think of one thing at a time, and so perhaps your piddly little imagination (no offense intended, mine is piddly, too) cannot embrace anyone or anything being able to exceed your abilities. 

I think many things at a time, as we all do.  Our minds are constantly in motion.  

38 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Have you ever heard of The Connection Machine? There were actually several variants, and further developments in computational science greatly exceed even the power of the CM-5, which could model the earth's entire weather system in real time (probably not very precisely, but I digress). The CM-5 makes your desktop or laptop look like a pocket calculator in comparison.  And God's capabilities compare to your capabilities at this time (as a mortal being) in a similar way, but certainly more profoundly.

 

 

I get the assumption.  I just don't think it works.  

[stemelbow]

4 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Not really.  We all agree that he is our Father and that he now lives in a place we call heaven.

 

huh...you sure?  Every believer of every religion believes that?  

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, stemelbow said:

How do you propose we prove that we all have a common father?  

Do your family history research.  Trace back every generation as far as you can until you can see the first Father we all have in common, and then go back one more generation just to be sure.

1 minute ago, stemelbow said:

You jumped from humans are the most supreme to the most common father of the humans is God.  I mean, the logic is extraordinarily odd.  But it's an interesting spin on the Adam/God theory.  

Simply because the word God has multiple definitions.  God is both a reference to a particular kind of being as well as a reference to any one individual who is that kind of being, such as the Father we all have in common.

I can see that this concept is difficult for you to understand but keep trying and I believe you will eventually get it.

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

huh...you sure?  Every believer of every religion believes that?  

Yes, I am sure every person of every religion believes God is a term that refers to a Father we all have in common, however each person defines what it means to be a Father to us.

The one who created us, some will say. The one who created us and everything else, some others will say.

[stemelbow]

5 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Do your family history research.  Trace back every generation as far as you can until you can see the first Father we all have in common, and then go back one more generation just to be sure.

it's impossible to trace back every generation anyone has until you can see the first father we all have in common.  The idea doesn't make sense, and as it is, it's impossible to do.  

5 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Simply because the word God has multiple definitions.  God is both a reference to a particular kind of being as well as a reference to any one individual who is that kind of being, such as the Father we all have in common.

I can see that this concept is difficult for you to understand but keep trying and I believe you will eventually get it.

Gotcha.  So you redefine God.  Yes, we can assume ancient humans exist.  You can call that an argument for God if you want, I guess.  

[Stargazer]

3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

So visiting people in vision is work?  I wonder what it feels like.  

I should think it would be similar to visiting people via a phone or Zoom call. There are plenty of people who make a living calling people like that.  And then just scale it up. 

3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I think many things at a time, as we all do.  Our minds are constantly in motion.  

You only think you do. Constantly in motion, sure, but still only one thing at a time. It's how your computer is able to surf the web, receive email, and notify you that you have a meeting in five minutes. Because it splits its tasks into byte-sized sub-tasks that are accomplished very quickly. Which is why a computer with a faster clock rate is the way to go if you want fast response times.

But if you believe that you can think many things at a time, why is it so hard for you to believe that God, if He exists, isn't able to think of enormously more things at a time than you? If He's going to run a universe, then surely He needs to be able to think of septillions of things at a time. It's just a matter of scale.

3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I get the assumption.  I just don't think it works.  

You're entitled to your thoughts. I've decided that the enormous size of the universe requires a Creator with the intellect and capability to match.

[Ahab]

Just now, stemelbow said:

it's impossible to trace back every generation anyone has until you can see the first father we all have in common.  The idea doesn't make sense, and as it is, it's impossible to do.  

Impossible?  Where did you get that idea?  How far have you gotten when trying?  I think you mean you tried a little and then gave up trying but even if you don't know his name you should see that logic dictates there must be one we have in common.

Just now, stemelbow said:

Gotcha.  So you redefine God.  Yes, we can assume ancient humans exist.  You can call that an argument for God if you want, I guess.  

No, I'm not redefining God.  That is how God is commonly defined.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

He has left off asking questions, and now gets his fun making mock. These "What's his Dad doing?" questions aren't serious. They are attempts to mock what he considers silly.

I guess if I had a similar outlook, I might feel the same way. After all, I laugh at flat-earthers, don't I? 

There's almost no point in addressing questions like this, but if it's fun, why not?

I know but I take it all too seriously I guess.  There really is no point in feeding the troll.  I really liked his "FUn" comment- he should get knocked off the board for that. 

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Hah..FUnny.  It seems to me you go our of your way to imagine non-issues where issues lie.  When you speak of God you merely speak of that character floating around in your imagination.

 

[Calm]

That could be a typo.  

[mfbukowski]

56 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Every God believer sees God differently than you.  So, no, you don't have a billion people who agree.  Many traditional Christians, as it were, would disagree with you profusely that God is material.  

OK then only 16 million.

You don't seem to understand that that is irrelevant anyway, which is exactly the problem. 

 

[mfbukowski]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

That could be a typo.  

In my opinion, not in the context.  

 

Over and out on this one.

Edited November 18, 2020 by mfbukowski

[Ahab]

40 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

...he should get knocked off the board for that. 

Not very tolerant of very ignorant people, are you. I suppose that is because YOU are very old and very tired of interacting with very ignorant people.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Not really.  We all agree that he is our Father and that he now lives in a place we call heaven.

 

My wife actually has a pedigree chart that allegedly goes back to Adam, tied into royalty which ties into biblical characters.  It's fun to look at and who knows?

Bertrand Russel himself showed that even at his advanced knowledge of logic, it could not be "proven" that the world did not pop into existence 5 minutes ago with all of our alleged memories as implants of some kind

By those standards, I think that makes some variation of the "Adm-God" theory sound ......  comparable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalos_hypothesis#:~:text=The five-minute hypothesis is,other signs of history included.

 

Quote

 

Five-minute hypothesis[edit]

The five-minute hypothesis is a skeptical hypothesis put forth by the philosopher Bertrand Russell, that proposes that the universe sprang into existence five minutes ago from nothing, with human memory and all other signs of history included. It is a commonly used example of how one may maintain extreme philosophical skepticism with regard to memory and trust in evidentially derived historical chronology.^[12][13]

Borges's Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius[edit]

Jorge Luis Borges, in his 1940 work, Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius, describes a fictional world in which some essentially follow as a religious belief a philosophy much like Russell's discussion on the logical extreme of Gosse's theory:^[14]

One of the schools of Tlön goes so far as to negate time: it reasons that the present is indefinite, that the future has no reality other than as a present hope, the past none other than present memory.

Borges had earlier written a short essay, "The Creation and P. H. Gosse"^[15] that explored the rejection of Gosse's Omphalos. Borges argued that its unpopularity stemmed from Gosse's explicit (if inadvertent) outlining of what Borges characterized as absurdities in the Genesis story.

 

 

[mfbukowski]

3 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Not very tolerant of very ignorant people, are you. I suppose that is because YOU are very old and very tired of interacting with very ignorant people.

I was talking about his arguable profanity.