Whodathunkit - Little Old Provo

[pogi]

14 hours ago, Amulek said:

But if you want to get down to brass tacks, what really matters is whether or not George Zimmerman - while lying on his back, choking on the blood from his broken nose, with his assailant straddling him, bashing his head against the sidewalk / raining down blow after blow "MMA style" and presumably reaching for his gun - reasonably feared for his life.

"choking on his blood"? Are you referencing that tiny little dribble on his lips?  "Broken nose"?  He never took an x-ray, how do we know it was broken?  A picture can't prove that.  How do we know that he was bashing his head against the sidewalk?  A couple lacerations on the back of his head could have happened from him falling back after getting a single blow to the nose.  You later claim he had 2 black eyes...I didn't see any.  All his injuries could be explained as 1 or 2 defensive blows to the face and hitting his head on the way down.  The medical examiner didn't even agree with Zimmerman's account.

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As a general rule, if you reasonably think that your life is in mortal danger, you are justified in using lethal force in self-defense. 

Then this applies to Trayvon too.

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Martin's only injury (gunshot wound aside, obviously): the abrasions on his knuckles from beating the living tar out of Zimmerman.  

I have watched many MMA fights.  The guy that throws the first punch is often the only one with visible injuries in the end.  The fact that Martin had no injuries other than a gun-shot is not evidence that Zimmerman couldn't have thrown the first punch.  The only thing it proves is that Martin was a better fighter.

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CFR - Please provide the transcript for this alleged quote from Rachel Jeantel.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trayvon-martin-killing-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts-063243901--abc-news.html

14 hours ago, Amulek said:

First, Zimmerman didn't chase him down. He got out of his truck and followed him for a few seconds, but when the police said he didn't need to do that he said 'okay' and then talked with them about how to arrange their meet up. He was walking around, waiting for the police to arrive when the confrontation happened.

We don't know that he was waiting around.  There were several minutes that are unaccounted for after he hung up with police and before the fight started.  We have no way to verify his account of events. 

14 hours ago, Amulek said:

Sorry, but Zimmerman wasn't a racist. I mean, I guess you never know for sure, but if he was a racist he was the really sneaky kind.

You know the kind of racist who would take a black girl to his high-school prom, open a business with one of his black friends as his partner, vote for Obama, donate his time to tutor black children in his neighborhood, and launch a campaign to help a homeless black man who was beaten up by a white kid (source). 

Having black friends doesn't make you immune from racism.   I don't care how many black friends you have, racial profiling and using a racial slur is racist.  Here he is again using a racial slur:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-zimmerman-used-racial-slur-in-bar-police-say/

Edited July 8, 2020 by pogi

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 7/6/2020 at 3:44 PM, Calm said:

That ignores the actual issue.  Blacks killing other blacks go to jail.  Police killing blacks do not. (Generally speaking)

Every time a LEO uses his weapon in the line of duty, there's an internal investigation, and if it's found a cop did wrong, there are consequences.  Yeah, we can talk about improving that system, we can look into how well it's working, racial bias, etc, but no, we don't get to just claim that cops get to blaze away at blacks all day and get off scott free.  That's a current popular media narrative, but I don't think the facts bear it out. 

When cops kill someone in a justified shooting, of course they don't go to jail.  When the killing is unjustified, of course they do.  The notion that cops don't go to jail for doing bad things is false.  This doesn't go into great detail, but here's a 2016 article from The Washington Post, pointing out that around 1,100 cops get arrested every year.   Every day, roughly three cops in the US are taken into custody by other cops.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/06/22/study-finds-1100-police-officers-per-year-or-3-per-day-are-arrested-nationwide/

Here - cast your opinion - should the cop go to jail for this killing of Jamee Johnson?  (language warning)

 

[Amulek]

4 hours ago, pogi said:

"choking on his blood"? Are you referencing that tiny little dribble on his lips?  "Broken nose"?  He never took an x-ray, how do we know it was broken?  A picture can't prove that. 

A medical report compiled by the family physician of George Zimmerman found that he was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day following the altercation. (link)

 

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How do we know that he was bashing his head against the sidewalk?  A couple lacerations on the back of his head could have happened from him falling back after getting a single blow to the nose. 

Or they could have happened from somebody pushing his head into the concrete a couple of times just as Zimmerman reported to the police.

 

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You later claim he had 2 black eyes...I didn't see any.

See above. 

 

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All his injuries could be explained as 1 or 2 defensive blows to the face and hitting his head on the way down.  The medical examiner didn't even agree with Zimmerman's account.

I addressed this previously. What she disagreed with was the characterization that his head was "slammed" on the ground, because she believes "slammed" implies very great force. She didn't say his head didn't impact the cement multiple times. 

Go back and watch her entire testimony. She testified that Zimmerman's injuries were consistent with as few as 3 blows, but on cross examination she begrudgingly admitted that his injuries were also consistent with as many as 12-14 blows. 

 

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Then this applies to Trayvon too.

Sure. Only there is no evidence that Trayvon was facing "imminent death or great bodily harm." 

 

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I have watched many MMA fights.  The guy that throws the first punch is often the only one with visible injuries in the end.  The fact that Martin had no injuries other than a gun-shot is not evidence that Zimmerman couldn't have thrown the first punch.  The only thing it proves is that Martin was a better fighter.

We're not talking about an arranged fight. We're talking about a street fight. And the guy who throws the first punch - especially if it's a sucker punch - is the guy who wins 9 times out of 10. 

You're right that Zimmerman losing the fight isn't proof that he didn't start it. But the evidence is consistent with his story. 

 

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https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trayvon-martin-killing-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts-063243901--abc-news.html

So...you admit that what was provided previously as a direct quote wasn't actually a direct quote. Glad we cleared that up.

 

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Having black friends doesn't make you immune from racism.   I don't care how many black friends you have, racial profiling and using a racial slur is racist.  Here he is again using a racial slur:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-zimmerman-used-racial-slur-in-bar-police-say/

 

There was no evidence that he was racially profiling anybody that night. And he didn't use a racial slur that night either - though CNN falsely claimed he did, and NBC edited tapes to make him look racist. 

The bar incident you are providing here is years following his trial. I can kind of understand him being pretty bitter about that - it completely ruined his life. 

 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

A medical report compiled by the family physician of George Zimmerman found that he was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day following the altercation. (link)

Choking on his blood - what is your reference for that one?  That is weird about the black eyes, because he didn't have any swelling or discoloration in any pictures directly after the fight or a few day s after the fight.

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Sure. Only there is no evidence that Trayvon was facing "imminent death or great bodily harm." 

I wonder if Trayvon would agree with that.  I would be personally worried about those things based on his friends phone call.

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

We're not talking about an arranged fight. We're talking about a street fight. And the guy who throws the first punch - especially if it's a sucker punch - is the guy who wins 9 times out of 10. 

You're right that Zimmerman losing the fight isn't proof that he didn't start it. But the evidence is consistent with his story. 

Big "if".

It sounds like it started out with pushing.

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

So...you admit that what was provided previously as a direct quote wasn't actually a direct quote. Glad we cleared that up.

 No, I don't admit that.  The source I originally collected it from was a direct quote.  The link I provided even says "according to the teenage girl".  They must have forgot the quote marks.  Here is the original source I got it from:

https://thinkprogress.org/trayvon-martins-last-phone-call-moments-before-tragic-death-undermines-account-killer-gave-to-police-2c970df99aea/

Why are you being nit-picky about that one sentence anyway?  The rest of the quote basically repeats the same things.

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

There was no evidence that he was racially profiling anybody that night. And he didn't use a racial slur that night either - though CNN falsely claimed he did, and NBC edited tapes to make him look racist. 

The bar incident you are providing here is years following his trial. I can kind of understand him being pretty bitter about that - it completely ruined his life. 

The kid was walking home with a bag of skittles...

Bitter about what?  The waitress girl being black?  You can understand that?  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by pogi

[Rajah Manchou]

2 hours ago, Amulek said:

Or they could have happened from somebody pushing his head into the concrete a couple of times just as Zimmerman reported to the police.

But didn't you say after the medical examiner said the injuries to back of the head were minor and inconsistent with slamming to the ground, she conceded 12-14 impacts? Could you point me to that concession I can't find it, I only find she conceded a possibility of 3-4 punches to the face, although she said her opinion was that it was a single punch to the face that also caused the laceration on the back of the head. As in one punch that broke his nose, gave him subtle black eyes and knocked his head against the concrete to give him a laceration.. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Rajah Manchou

[Rajah Manchou]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

Bitter about what?  The waitress girl being black?  You can understand that?  

We all can see ZImmerman has been an absolute egotistical train wreck since he was acquited, Just Google "george zimmerman controversies" for a growing list of horrible human behavior, including loaded guns,, threats, racist tweets and police intervention. He continues to intentionally stoke the flames.

This is the most telling part of that incident at the bar: "The deputy found Zimmerman yelling at a waitress, according to the offense report. Zimmerman’s friends were attempting to calm him down."

He's accused of battery involving a woman, and the police have to intervene, and his friends have to calm him down. Not the kind of person you'd expect to patiently wait for police or calmly ask Trayvon "what are you doing here?"

[bsjkki]

2 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

But didn't you say after the medical examiner said the injuries to back of the head were minor and inconsistent with slamming to the ground, she conceded 12-14 impacts? Could you point me to that concession I can't find it, I only find she conceded a possibility of 3-4 punches to the face, although she said her opinion was that it was a single punch to the face that also caused the laceration on the back of the head. As in one punch that broke his nose, gave him subtle black eyes and knocked his head against the concrete to give him a laceration.. 

“The attorney and doctor sparred over different possible events, with O’Mara seeking to expand the number of blows and the doctor trying to keep them to no more than three. Rao refused to commit to a specific number of the maximum number of blows that would be consistent with the injuries on Zimmerman, but agreed with scenarios that could be more than half a dozen.”

This is from the LA times. You are correct finding a transcript is difficult. 

[Rajah Manchou]

24 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

“The attorney and doctor sparred over different possible events, with O’Mara seeking to expand the number of blows and the doctor trying to keep them to no more than three. Rao refused to commit to a specific number of the maximum number of blows that would be consistent with the injuries on Zimmerman, but agreed with scenarios that could be more than half a dozen.”

This is from the LA times. You are correct finding a transcript is difficult. 

OK, but this is blows to the front of the face, not how many times the back of his head was beat against the concrete.

Zimmerman claims Martin "repeatedly slammed his head against the ground". Rao said that is inconsistent with the minor lacerations on the back of his head. Her assessment was that the injuries were "consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time," she testified. "The injuries were not life-threatening," she said, adding they were "very insignificant." She conceded 3-4 blows to the face (or more than half a dozen depending on the news outlet) in hypothetical situations, but stated it was not her opinion.

Amulek said: "The medical examiner took issue with the word "slammed." She didn't think the injuries were consistent with being "slammed" into the concrete multiple times because she believes that the word "slammed" implies very great force. And she would have expected to see greater, more severe lacerations if his head had hit the cement with very great force. Rao conceded 12-14 impacts of the back of the head to the ground."

CFR that Rao conceded 12-14 impacts of the back of the head to the ground. I shouldn't jump back into this after I bowed out, but this is pretty important stuff to get correct and I'd like to know the facts in this particular argument.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Rajah Manchou

[bsjkki]

Tao was a state’s witness...she minimized the impact of the blows. The defense called their own witness. 

Many courtroom observers believe that the testimony of forensic pathologist Dr. Vincent Di Maio greatly strengthened the defense case.  Di Maio testified that his analysis revealed that the gun was touching Martin's sweatshirt and was "two to four inches" from Martin's body when the fatal bullet was fired.  This, Di Maio said, is consistent with Zimmerman's story that he was on the bottom and Martin on top straddling him, because in that position the sweatshirt would be hanging down from Martin's body a few inches.  "The medical evidence is consistent with [Zimmerman's] statement," Di Maio concluded.  Di Maio also described Zimmerman's head lacerations, temple wounds, and bloodied nose as "consistent with" having had his head banged into a sidewalk and being punched in the nose, as Zimmerman claimed had happened. “

I watched his testimony again and he testifies at least two strikes on the pavement to the back of the head. Multiple strikes to the face. The point of the testimony established Zimmerman had a reason to feel his life was in jeopardy. 

“.  The most compelling eyewitness testimony came from Jonathan Good, who lived in a townhouse very near the confrontation and had the best view of the incident.  When Good looked out his door and saw "some sort of tussle" on the ground, he yelled "What's going on?" and "Stop it!"  Good said the person on top wore a "dark" shirt or sweatshirt and that the person underneath wore a lighter color top--either "red" or "white" he guessed.  (Zimmerman wore an orange top.) He also described the person being straddled as having the lighter colored-skin.  He testified that he saw "multiple" downward thrusts of an arm from the person on top that "looked like punches" and heard the person on the bottom cry for help.  When he turned to go inside his townhouse and call 9-1-1, the gunshot rang out in the night.  Shown photographs of both Zimmerman and Martin, Good identified Martin as the person on top and Zimmerman as the person on the bottom.  He also aided the defense by stating that in his opinion it was Zimmerman's voice screaming for help. ”

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zimmerman1/zimmermanaccount.html

“In the end, what most critics of the Zimmerman verdict seem to believe it should be a crime to be suspicious of someone because of his race, or that it should be a crime to follow a person when a police dispatcher says not to, or that it should be a crime to use deadly force against another unless one is facing something close to certain death.  Yet none of those actions constitute crimes under Florida's--or any other state's--laws. “

Edited July 9, 2020 by bsjkki

[Amulek]

18 hours ago, pogi said:

Choking on his blood - what is your reference for that one?  

Um...physics. When you are bleeding from your nose and lying on your back, the blood is going to run down your throat and you're going to cough it back up.

 

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I wonder if Trayvon would agree with that.  I would be personally worried about those things based on his friends phone call.

Based on the content of his calls, he was about as worried as the All-Star game having started already as he was about the presumptively gay fellow who was following him. 

 

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Big "if".

It sounds like it started out with pushing.

There's no way to know.

The person who claimed to have heard the alleged pushing is known to have lied under oath; and her testimony was clearly tainted by information acquired after the fact - I mean, unless we are to believe that she really is capable of hearing "the sound of wet grass" over the telephone. Unfortunately, her testimony is completely unreliable.

 

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No, I don't admit that.  The source I originally collected it from was a direct quote.  The link I provided even says "according to the teenage girl".  They must have forgot the quote marks.  Here is the original source I got it from:

https://thinkprogress.org/trayvon-martins-last-phone-call-moments-before-tragic-death-undermines-account-killer-gave-to-police-2c970df99aea/

Why are you being nit-picky about that one sentence anyway?  The rest of the quote basically repeats the same things.

Because there is so much misinformation about this case, and that quote is just such a prime example of it. 

Let's take a look at the direct quote that is being attributed to the teenage girl Martin was on the phone with that night. According to your original source she stated that Martin was, "hounded by a strange man on a cellphone who ran after him, cornered him and confronted him."

The girl Martin was on the phone with that night was Rachel Jeantel - a girl who, at the time, was a 19 year old with a fourth grade reading level. Honestly, go back and watch five or ten minutes of her actual testimony during the trial. Then come back with a straight face and try to convince anyone that the words "hounded by a strange man on a cellphone who ran after him, corned him and confronted him" have ever come out of her lips.

What is being attributed to her as a direct quote is, in fact, quite clearly somebody else's characterization of her actual comments. That's why I was asking for an original transcript, because I know she never uttered those words. 

Just like I also know she never said anything about Trayvon being "cornered." That wasn't in the transcripts or depositions, and it wasn't part of her testimony at trial. Again, that's somebody else's characterization of her testimony being passed off as her own words. 

And I really have no idea where are they getting the notion that Zimmerman confronted Martin, when all of the evidence agrees it was Martin who initiated the confrontation.

 

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The kid was walking home with a bag of skittles...

And Arizona iced tea! Don't forget the tea!

Look, two weeks following the last burglary (of which there had been several over the past year), Zimmerman saw Travyon Martin walking through the gated community.

According to what he told the police Zimmerman didn't recognize Martin as a resident, so he called the non-emergency police number and stated:

"Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy [near] Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's walking around, looking about...He was just staring...He's just walking around the area looking at all the houses...Something's wrong with him."

He was suspicious of Martin because of his behavior - not because of his race. 

And don't forget, there was literally an independent investigation into this question by the FBI / DOJ. Here's how that ended:

After interviewing 30 people familiar with George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain charged with killing African-American teenager Trayvon Martin, FBI agents found no evidence that the shooting was driven by racial bias or animus. (source)

 

[Amulek]

18 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

But didn't you say after the medical examiner said the injuries to back of the head were minor and inconsistent with slamming to the ground, she conceded 12-14 impacts? Could you point me to that concession I can't find it, I only find she conceded a possibility of 3-4 punches to the face, although she said her opinion was that it was a single punch to the face that also caused the laceration on the back of the head. As in one punch that broke his nose, gave him subtle black eyes and knocked his head against the concrete to give him a laceration.. 

You can find her full testimony, including cross-examination, here: link.

The relevant portion starts around the 1:20 mark where defense counsel tries to get her to give her medical opinion on, not the minimum, but the maximum, number of impacts there might have been.

She eventually concedes that it is possible that there could have been four impacts on the right, left, and back of the skull (hence, the dozen or so number I was talking about earlier).

Hope that helps. 

 

[Kenngo1969]

Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill has found the shooting by Salt Lake City Police of Bernardo Palacios-Carbajal, whom police encountered not too long after he had committed armed robbery, who still had the weapon he used during that robbery, and who dropped the weapon and retrieved it several times while police pursued him on foot, legally justified.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/7/9/21318772/salt-lake-police-legally-justified-in-killing-bernardo-palacios-d-a-says

[Kenngo1969]

Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill has found the shooting by Salt Lake City Police of Bernardo Palacios-Carbajal, whom police encountered not too long after he had committed armed robbery, who still had the weapon he used during that robbery, and who dropped the weapon and retrieved it several times while police pursued him on foot, legally justified.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/7/9/21318772/salt-lake-police-legally-justified-in-killing-bernardo-palacios-d-a-says

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill has found the shooting by Salt Lake City Police of Bernardo Palacios-Carbajal, whom police encountered not too long after he had committed armed robbery, who still had the weapon he used during that robbery, and who dropped the weapon and retrieved it several times while police pursued him on foot, legally justified.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/7/9/21318772/salt-lake-police-legally-justified-in-killing-bernardo-palacios-d-a-says

Protest downtown. 
 

This time the police were ready, though, and when it got to the windows-breaking stage, they cleared them out pretty fast. 
 

Seems like the rioters don’t like being video recorded now, by news media or by-standers, because police are finding it an effective means of detecting them when they commit crimes. They are using umbrellas to block shots. 
 

Nine people have been arrested so far in connection with the destruction of the police car in Salt Lake City in late May. And, of course, the suspects in Provo were tracked down within a day or two from video. 
 

Edited to add: Isn’t the point of public protest to get attention? If you try to prevent being video recorded, doesn’t that kind of defeat your purpose? 
 

But then, this is the movement that tore down historic statues of abolitionists because, ahem, “black lives matter”.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[alter idem]

9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Protest downtown. 
 

This time the police were ready, though, and when it got to the windows-breaking stage, they cleared them out pretty fast. 
 

Seems like the rioters don’t like being video recorded now, by news media or by-standers, because police are finding it an effective means of detecting them when they commit crimes. They are using umbrellas to block shots. 
 

Nine people have been arrested so far in connection with the destruction of the police car in Salt Lake City in late May. And, of course, the suspects in Provo were tracked down within a day or two from video. 
 

Edited to add: Isn’t the point of public protest to get attention? If you try to prevent being video recorded, doesn’t that kind of defeat your purpose? 
 

But then, this is the movement that tore down historic statues of abolitionists because, ahem, “black lives matter”.

Trying to prevent video taping makes me believe their violent actions more premeditated.  If they really are committed to non violent protesting, then they should stop with the umbrellas. They are only confirming the allegations that they encourage violence and rioting.

You'd think  black lives matter organization should discourage attempts like this by protestors to hide from videotape, as you said, I thought it was all about publicizing their stance against police brutality.  Another reason for distrusting the claims of this group.imo

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, alter idem said:

Trying to prevent video taping makes me believe their violent actions more premeditated.  If they really are committed to non violent protesting, then they should stop with the umbrellas. They are only confirming the allegations that they encourage violence and rioting.

You'd think  black lives matter organization should discourage attempts like this by protestors to hide from videotape, as you said, I thought it was all about publicizing their stance against police brutality.  Another reason for distrusting the claims of this group.imo

Kind of ironic.  They want to film cops (and plaster various snippets that lack context of these encounters all over the Internet).  But, "Nope, you can't film us!"  Welp, I guess what's good for the goose really isn't good for the gander!   I guess that's the difference between MLK & BLM: The footage of Bull Connor's dogs attacking peaceful protesters, perhaps, did more for MLK's cause than anything else.  But BLM?  "Nope!  Don't film us!"

Edited July 10, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[bsjkki]

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/7/10/21320001/riot-damage-to-salt-lake-county-district-attorney-building-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars-protesters

32 gallons of red paint. Pics included in article. Broken windows. 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by bsjkki

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/7/10/21320001/riot-damage-to-salt-lake-county-district-attorney-building-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars-protesters

32 gallons of red paint. Pics included in article. Broken windows. 

 

 

I have no patience for these types of hoodlums. They have moved beyond civil society and only understand violence. All protests should be shut down except in specified areas away from public buildings and members of civil society.  Then they can hoot and holler to their heart's content. Any further attempt should be met with whatever force is necessary to disperse them and ensure they only protest in approved locations.  

[strappinglad]

State of emergency declared by Gov. of Utah. 

[alter idem]

6 hours ago, bsjkki said:

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/7/10/21320001/riot-damage-to-salt-lake-county-district-attorney-building-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars-protesters

32 gallons of red paint. Pics included in article. Broken windows. 

 

 

This is just heartbreaking that we have people in this country who think this is a way to get their message out to others, and what kind of fools would think this would help their cause??

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, strappinglad said:

State of emergency declared by Gov. of Utah. 

Over coronavirus? Happened in March. 
 

Or are you talking about something else? Link?

 

[Scott Lloyd]

There has been another arrest in the Provo  riot. This time it is one of the organizers:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50000127/organizer-of-provo-protest-arrested-accused-of-rioting-making-threats

Sounds like some bad elements involved in this thing, including an Antifa group, and that lawlessness was the intent from the start  it wasn’t just a “peaceful” protest that got out of hand. 
 

“On June 29, a group calling itself Back to Blue planned to drive around the Provo Police Department and honk their horns to show support for law enforcement.

“Another group planned a counterprotest at the same time and place. On Facebook, its event page was originally titled End Police Brutality but was later changed to Marching for Racial Equality. The Facebook pages listed the event’s hosts as the groups Insurgence, Solidarity for Justice, Salt Lake Equal Rights Movement and the Salt Lake Antifascist Coalition.

“Sullivan is part of the Insurgence USA group, according to a police affidavit.

“‘Protesters traveled through downtown Provo. The protesters did not obtain a permit for the event,’ the affidavit states. “‘John Sullivan and Insurgence USA had social media postings promoting other protesters to join them.’

“Between 80 and 100 people were part of the protest.

“‘The protest traveled on the roadways blocking motorists who have the right of way. John Sullivan blocked vehicles from freely moving lawfully. During the course of the protest, two handguns were brandished and two shots fired toward a motorist traveling to Home Depot. Vehicles were damaged by protestors as well as by John Sullivan,’ the affidavit states.

“‘As a protest organizer John Sullivan is heard and seen as he is promoting protesters to block roadways, keeping motorists from traveling lawfully and freely.’

Sullivan was also captured on video threatening to beat a woman in an SUV, according to the affidavit, and then kicking her door, leaving a dent.

Sullivan was seen with Jesse Taggart — the man charged with shooting the motorist — throughout the protest, the affidavit states.

“‘As a protest organizer, John Sullivan is heard talking about seeing the shooting, looking at the gun and seeing smoke coming from it. John did not condemn the attempted murder nor attempt to stop it nor aide in its investigation by police.’”

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[strappinglad]

Extended the State of emergency apparently .

https://www.ksl.com/article/50000128/mayor-da-police-taking-precautions-after-receiving-credible-threats

[Scott Lloyd]

33 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Extended the State of emergency apparently .

https://www.ksl.com/article/50000128/mayor-da-police-taking-precautions-after-receiving-credible-threats

Earlier, the police chief had been quoted as saying he was willing to tolerate a measure of vandalism but that the breaking of windows was beyond the pale. 
 

It now appears there will be zero tolerance for any form or degree of vandalism. I say hallelujah! That should have been the stance from the beginning, especially given the involvement of domestic terrorist groups. 

[Scott Lloyd]

51 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

There has been another arrest in the Provo  riot. This time it is one of the organizers:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50000127/organizer-of-provo-protest-arrested-accused-of-rioting-making-threats

Sounds like some bad elements involved in this thing, including an Antifa group, and that lawlessness was the intent from the start  it wasn’t just a “peaceful” protest that got out of hand. 
 

“On June 29, a group calling itself Back to Blue planned to drive around the Provo Police Department and honk their horns to show support for law enforcement.

“Another group planned a counterprotest at the same time and place. On Facebook, its event page was originally titled End Police Brutality but was later changed to Marching for Racial Equality. The Facebook pages listed the event’s hosts as the groups Insurgence, Solidarity for Justice, Salt Lake Equal Rights Movement and the Salt Lake Antifascist Coalition.

“Sullivan is part of the Insurgence USA group, according to a police affidavit.

“‘Protesters traveled through downtown Provo. The protesters did not obtain a permit for the event,’ the affidavit states. “‘John Sullivan and Insurgence USA had social media postings promoting other protesters to join them.’

“Between 80 and 100 people were part of the protest.

“‘The protest traveled on the roadways blocking motorists who have the right of way. John Sullivan blocked vehicles from freely moving lawfully. During the course of the protest, two handguns were brandished and two shots fired toward a motorist traveling to Home Depot. Vehicles were damaged by protestors as well as by John Sullivan,’ the affidavit states.

“‘As a protest organizer John Sullivan is heard and seen as he is promoting protesters to block roadways, keeping motorists from traveling lawfully and freely.’

Sullivan was also captured on video threatening to beat a woman in an SUV, according to the affidavit, and then kicking her door, leaving a dent.

Sullivan was seen with Jesse Taggart — the man charged with shooting the motorist — throughout the protest, the affidavit states.

“‘As a protest organizer, John Sullivan is heard talking about seeing the shooting, looking at the gun and seeing smoke coming from it. John did not condemn the attempted murder nor attempt to stop it nor aide in its investigation by police.’”

 

Sullivan has been quoted from news media interviews in which he has endeavored (falsely, in my view) to cast victims in the role of villains, accusing illegally detained motorists of “attempting to run people over” and such. I’m gratified to see that this arrest has been made.