Sunday, March 26, 1820 - Date of First Vision?

[smac97]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but this evening I came across a very interesting video that purports to establish the date of the First Vision as Sunday, March 26, 1820.  See here:

 

It's 34 minutes long, but very well done, and worth a watch for those interested in the topic.  

If this claim is correct, then the 200th anniversary of the first vision will be this Thursday.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-Smac

[InCognitus]

Interesting.  I'm really glad you encountered this, because I've been racking my brain trying to remember where I read a study about trying to identify the exact day of the first vision.  And with the help of your video I was able to find a copy that I had saved on my hard drive, and also find it again on the web.  It was from an article published in Meridian Magazine back in 2002 by John C. Lefgren and John P. Pratt (the two people discussed in the video).  That article is reprinted on John Pratt's web page:

https://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2002/restoration.html

And here's the original Meridian Magazine article:

https://latterdaysaintmag.com/article-1-5442/

And this one published the same year in Meridian:

https://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2002/vision.html

And this article in the Joseph Smith & Emma Hale Smith Historical Society:

https://www.josephsmithjr.org/oh-how-lovely-was-the-morning-sun-26-march-1820/

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by InCognitus

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but this evening I came across a very interesting video that purports to establish the date of the First Vision as Sunday, March 26, 1820.  See here:........................................................If this claim is correct, then the 200th anniversary of the first vision will be this Thursday...................................................

Well, the wild and woolley application of the Enoch calendar to dating the First Vision is certainly novel.  Hadn't heard of this before.

We do know that 1820 was a sabbatical year (5580) in the Jewish calendar (Sept 20, 1819 to Sep 9, 1820, and a date in late March is smack dab in the middle of that sabbatical year.  However, there is no significant event that year on March 26.  Far more interesting would be the confluence of Passover (Pesach) beginning the evening of Thur March 29, 1820, and concluding on Thur April 6, 1820.   Come next week, the grand LDS anniversary of that Passover would begin Fast Sunday Mar 29, 2020, and conclude on Monday April 6, 2020.    That includes our April Conference.

That would fit rather nicely, if the weather was right in 1820, and you'll recall that the Kirtland Temple dedication also came at Jewish Passover (including the ancient promise that Elijah would come at Passover, which he did).  https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/appearance-elijah-and-moses-kirtland-temple-and-jewish-passover .

Another nice synchronism would be with Pentecost (Shavuot/Weeks), which begins the evening of Fri May 19, 1820, and continues all day Sat May 20.  That day has obvious implications as the anniversary of Moses receiving the Law/Ten Commandments, and the early Jewish-Christians receiving the Holy Spirit en masse on that same day.  An auspicious day for Joseph to have had his First Vision.

[InCognitus]

Just now, Robert F. Smith said:

Well, the wild and woolley application of the Enoch calendar to dating the First Vision is certainly novel.  Hadn't heard of this before.

We do know that 1820 was a sabbatical year (5580) in the Jewish calendar (Sept 20, 1819 to Sep 9, 1820, and a date in late March is smack dab in the middle of that sabbatical year.  However, there is no significant event that year on March 26.  Far more interesting would be the confluence of Passover (Pesach) beginning the evening of Thur March 29, 1820, and concluding on Thur April 6, 1820.   Come next week, the grand LDS anniversary of that Passover would begin Fast Sunday Mar 29, 2020, and conclude on Monday April 6, 2020.    That includes our April Conference.

That would fit rather nicely, if the weather was right in 1820, and you'll recall that the Kirtland Temple dedication also came at Jewish Passover (including the ancient promise that Elijah would come at Passover, which he did).  https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/appearance-elijah-and-moses-kirtland-temple-and-jewish-passover .

Another nice synchronism would be with Pentecost (Shavuot/Weeks), which begins the evening of Fri May 19, 1820, and continues all day Sat May 20.  That day has obvious implications as the anniversary of Moses receiving the Law/Ten Commandments, and the early Jewish-Christians receiving the Holy Spirit en masse on that same day.  An auspicious day for Joseph to have had his First Vision.

That's exactly the reason I was trying to remember where I read about this study.  I was thinking about the Book of Mormon coming forth on Rosh Hashanah: the Feast of Trumpets early in the morning of 22 September 1827.  (Ensign article:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2000/01/the-golden-plates-and-the-feast-of-trumpets?lang=eng, with corresponding Jewish Calendar here:  Jewish Calendar 1827 Diaspora).  There's no coincidence about that date, it was precisely planned.  So I was thinking that the first vision may have a similar correspondence.  But the Book of Mormon delivery date was set up by the Lord, and that wasn't the case for the first vision.  Joseph's own choices and response time may not have allowed for a calculated Jewish calendar correspondence date.  But that doesn't mean it didn't happen.  The weather chart for 1820 allows for other possible "clear day" dates.

This is the Jewish holiday calendar for 1820:  Jewish Calendar 1820 Diaspora

[Robert F. Smith]

5 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

That's exactly the reason I was trying to remember where I read about this study.  I was thinking about the Book of Mormon coming forth on Rosh Hashanah: the Feast of Trumpets early in the morning of 22 September 1827.  (Ensign article:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2000/01/the-golden-plates-and-the-feast-of-trumpets?lang=eng, with corresponding Jewish Calendar here:  Jewish Calendar 1827 Diaspora).  There's no coincidence about that date, it was precisely planned.  So I was thinking that the first vision may have a similar correspondence.  But the Book of Mormon delivery date was set up by the Lord, and that wasn't the case for the first vision.  Joseph's own choices and response time may not have allowed for a calculated Jewish calendar correspondence date.  But that doesn't mean it didn't happen.  The weather chart for 1820 allows for other possible "clear day" dates..............................

The Lord is more capable than we imagine of making things happen according to a very clever schedule, including the First Vision.  After all, Joseph was born in a Jewish Sabbatical year (Dec 1805), he had typhoid and osteomyelitis in a Sabbatical year, from which he nearly died and spent the summer with his uncle in Salem (1813).  So, it will be no surprise to you that the plate reception sequence went like this:

Moroni presents plates for first time  21-22 Sept 1823 (Sun-Mon)  16-17 Tishrei 5584 Sukkot/Tabernacles (Mon is Chol haMoed)
Joseph visits the Hill        22 Sept 1824 (Wed)     29 Elul 5585      Eve of Rosh haShana/New Year
Joseph visits the Hill        22 Sept 1825 (Mon)      10 Tishrei 5586  Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement
Joseph visits the Hill        22 Sept 1826  (Fri)        20 Elul 5586      Eve of Shabbat/Sabbath

 Sabbatical year begins       2 Oct 1826 (Mon)        1 Tishrei 5587    Rosh haShana/New Year
 Joseph obtains plates        22 Sept 1827 (Sat)      1 Tishrei 5588   Shabbat/Sabbath (end of Sabbatical year)
Joseph retrieves plates*    1 Oct 1827 (Mon)        10 Tishrei 5588   Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement, most holy day of Jewish year

*Joseph hid the plates in a hollow log for 10 days.

[smac97]

10 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Well, the wild and woolley application of the Enoch calendar to dating the First Vision is certainly novel.  Hadn't heard of this before.

We do know that 1820 was a sabbatical year (5580) in the Jewish calendar (Sept 20, 1819 to Sep 9, 1820, and a date in late March is smack dab in the middle of that sabbatical year.  However, there is no significant event that year on March 26.  Far more interesting would be the confluence of Passover (Pesach) beginning the evening of Thur March 29, 1820, and concluding on Thur April 6, 1820.   Come next week, the grand LDS anniversary of that Passover would begin Fast Sunday Mar 29, 2020, and conclude on Monday April 6, 2020.    That includes our April Conference.

Hmm. Interesting stuff.

10 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Another nice synchronism would be with Pentecost (Shavuot/Weeks), which begins the evening of Fri May 19, 1820, and continues all day Sat May 20.  That day has obvious implications as the anniversary of Moses receiving the Law/Ten Commandments, and the early Jewish-Christians receiving the Holy Spirit en masse on that same day.  An auspicious day for Joseph to have had his First Vision.

May 19 wouldn't seem to fit with Joseph's description of the event taking place "early in the spring of 1820."

Thanks,

-Smac

[Robert F. Smith]

36 minutes ago, smac97 said:

...............................May 19 wouldn't seem to fit with Joseph's description of the event taking place "early in the spring of 1820.".......................

Depends on how rigidly we take Joseph's description of something that took place years before -- how accurate was his memory, when even his own mother could not recall correctly which year her son Alvin was born?  However, the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost is not my prime choice anyhow.

[teddyaware]

47 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Hmm. Interesting stuff.

May 19 wouldn't seem to fit with Joseph's description of the event taking place "early in the spring of 1820."

Thanks,

-Smac

I believe it’s less likely the prophet Joseph Smith was speaking of “calendar spring,” as we do today, and more likely that he was speaking of “observable spring.”. Because he lived in a farming region I have a hunch he was actually speaking of “observable spring,” or the observable signs of the renewal of life after the deadness of winter. In the Finger Lakes region of New York, those observable signs wouldn’t begin to appear in any obvious way until the about middle of April. And if in the year 1820 there was a “late spring” (observe how this commonly used term is tied to ‘observable spring,’ not the calendar), then even mid-May might be referred to as early spring. Fact is there was one recent spring here in the New York City area when the leaves on the trees didn’t begin to come out of bud until the end of May.

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by teddyaware

[smac97]

8 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

I believe it’s less likely the prophet Joseph Smith was speaking of “calendar spring,” as we do today, and more likely that he was speaking of “observable spring.”. Because he lived in a farming region I have a hunch he was actually speaking of “observable spring,” or the observable signs of the renewal of life after the deadness of winter.

Okay.  That's an interesting thought.  But the Smiths were not only farmers.  They also harvested maple syrup, which is keyed to the early spring, and the circumstances for which worsen as time goes on:

Quote

In the early stages of European colonization in northeastern North America, local Indigenous peoples showed the arriving colonists how to tap the trunks of certain types of maples during the spring thaw to harvest the sap.
...
Maple sugaring parties typically began to operate at the start of the spring thaw in regions of woodland with sufficiently large numbers of maples. Syrup makers first bored holes in the trunks, usually more than one hole per large tree; they then inserted wooden spouts into the holes and hung a wooden bucket from the protruding end of each spout to collect the sap. ... The sap-collection buckets were returned to the spouts mounted on the trees, and the process was repeated for as long as the flow of sap remained "sweet". The specific weather conditions of the thaw period were, and still are, critical in determining the length of the sugaring season. As the weather continues to warm, a maple tree's normal early spring biological process eventually alters the taste of the sap, making it unpalatable, perhaps due to an increase in amino acids.

Hence the Smiths would have been particularly attentive to warm weather "early in the spring," particularly since they are recorded as having produced 1,000 pounds of maple sugar in a season.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[Scott Lloyd]

15 hours ago, smac97 said:

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but this evening I came across a very interesting video that purports to establish the date of the First Vision as Sunday, March 26, 1820.  See here:

 

It's 34 minutes long, but very well done, and worth a watch for those interested in the topic.  

If this claim is correct, then the 200th anniversary of the first vision will be this Thursday.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-Smac

A friend of mine on Facebook linked to this. I watched part of it before my iPhone ran out of power. I want to get back to it. 
 

I find it fascinating. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

I believe it’s less likely the prophet Joseph Smith was speaking of “calendar spring,” as we do today, and more likely that he was speaking of “observable spring.”. Because he lived in a farming region I have a hunch he was actually speaking of “observable spring,” or the observable signs of the renewal of life after the deadness of winter. In the Finger Lakes region of New York, those observable signs wouldn’t begin to appear in any obvious way until the about middle of April. And if in the year 1820 there was a “late spring” (observe how this commonly used term is tied to ‘observable spring,’ not the calendar), then even mid-May might be referred to as early spring. Fact is there was one recent spring here in the New York City area when the leaves on the trees didn’t begin to come out of bud until the end of May.

 

 

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Okay.  That's an interesting thought.  But the Smiths were not only farmers.  They also harvested maple syrup, which is keyed to the early spring, and the circumstances for which worsen as time goes on:

Hence the Smiths would have been particularly attentive to warm weather "early in the spring," particularly since they are recorded as having produced 1,000 pounds of maple sugar in a season.  

Thanks,

-Smac

I checked and found that the Farmer’s Almanac began publication in 1818, two years before the First Vision. I’m not sure whether the Smiths (or those in the community) were subscribers or readers of it, but I should think the almanac would have given information about the seasons and the calendar and the vernal equinox and such. 

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Okay.  That's an interesting thought.  But the Smiths were not only farmers.  They also harvested maple syrup, which is keyed to the early spring, and the circumstances for which worsen as time goes on:

Hence the Smiths would have been particularly attentive to warm weather "early in the spring," particularly since they are recorded as having produced 1,000 pounds of maple sugar in a season.  

Thanks,

-Smac

Except for maple syrup production, March 26th in Palmyra, New York looks no more like spring than January 15th. If this premise turns out to be correct, out the window goes “How Lovely Was The Morning.” 

Even down here in the most southern part of the state of New York, in practical terms, we consider March 26th to be no more spring than we consider the 15th of December to be Autumn.

Edited March 23, 2020 by teddyaware

[smac97]

31 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Except for maple syrup production, March 26th in Palmyra, New York looks no more like spring than January 15th. If this premise turns out to be correct, out the window goes “How Lovely Was The Morning.” 

The premise is not correct.  The weather on March 26, 1820 is specifically addressed in the video referenced in the OP.

31 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Even down here in the most southern part of the state of New York, in practical terms, we consider March 26th to be no more spring than we consider the 15th of December to be Autumn.

But based on the calendar, and based on a family focused on early-spring-as-the-season-for-huge-amounts-of-work-pertaining-to-collecting-maple-sap-to-turn-into-maple-sugar considerations, and based on the description by Joseph Smith himself of the day being "early in the spring of 1820," and based on March 26, 1820 having been preceded by two days which were warm enough to let the maple sap run - which would have essentially made drawing sap on the 26th impractical, and based on March 26, 1820 having been a Sunday (and hence an unlikely day for the devout Smiths to attempt the intense manual labor involved in producing maple sugar), the 26th seems to work pretty well.

Don't get me wrong.  This is not a doctrinal issue for me.  I do not find Christmas less significant in my life when I acknowledge it is not the day on which the Savior was born.  It is the event that matters.  The precise date on which it happened can be interesting, but not vital.

Thanks,

-Smac

[teddyaware]

4 hours ago, smac97 said:

The premise is not correct.  The weather on March 26, 1820 is specifically addressed in the video referenced in the OP.

But based on the calendar, and based on a family focused on early-spring-as-the-season-for-huge-amounts-of-work-pertaining-to-collecting-maple-sap-to-turn-into-maple-sugar considerations, and based on the description by Joseph Smith himself of the day being "early in the spring of 1820," and based on March 26, 1820 having been preceded by two days which were warm enough to let the maple sap run - which would have essentially made drawing sap on the 26th impractical, and based on March 26, 1820 having been a Sunday (and hence an unlikely day for the devout Smiths to attempt the intense manual labor involved in producing maple sugar), the 26th seems to work pretty well.

Don't get me wrong.  This is not a doctrinal issue for me.  I do not find Christmas less significant in my life when I acknowledge it is not the day on which the Savior was born.  It is the event that matters.  The precise date on which it happened can be interesting, but not vital.

Thanks,

-Smac

There have been many times in my life when I’ve researched one thing or another and become convinced by what appeared to be overwhelming circumstantial evidence that some conclusion I reached was true, only to be later stunned when the arrival of direct evidence proved, without a doubt, that I had been barking up the wrong tree. So on this issue I would say that though the circumstantial evidence presented does seem valid and at least partially persuasive, it doesn’t amount to enough to actually prove anything, as I’m sure you’ll agree.

It’s interesting because several summers ago we had two consecutive springs in the NYC area that were so late, cold and miserable that many locals were lamenting they feared we were entering a new weather pattern when we would go from the misery of winter directly into heat summer.

And remember, Joseph could have just as easily been remembered the natural beauty of the spring of 1820 when he recalled his First Vision took place on a beautiful, clear day in the springtime. Also remember that many reasonable people would agree that early spring extends from March 21st to May 1st. 

One way to help resolve this controversy would be to see what the same records have to say about the weather conditions in the last two weeks of April 1820. If any of those days turn out to have been beautiful and clear, they would be candidates as well.

[teddyaware]

On 3/23/2020 at 3:18 PM, smac97 said:

The premise is not correct.  The weather on March 26, 1820 is specifically addressed in the video referenced in the OP.

But based on the calendar, and based on a family focused on early-spring-as-the-season-for-huge-amounts-of-work-pertaining-to-collecting-maple-sap-to-turn-into-maple-sugar considerations, and based on the description by Joseph Smith himself of the day being "early in the spring of 1820," and based on March 26, 1820 having been preceded by two days which were warm enough to let the maple sap run - which would have essentially made drawing sap on the 26th impractical, and based on March 26, 1820 having been a Sunday (and hence an unlikely day for the devout Smiths to attempt the intense manual labor involved in producing maple sugar), the 26th seems to work pretty well.

Don't get me wrong.  This is not a doctrinal issue for me.  I do not find Christmas less significant in my life when I acknowledge it is not the day on which the Savior was born.  It is the event that matters.  The precise date on which it happened can be interesting, but not vital.

Thanks,

-Smac

But one thing I must admit, it certainly is good to know that in the early ‘calendar spring’ of 1820 it’s provable that there really was a beautiful, clear and unseasonably mild day!

 

[Boanerges]

On 3/23/2020 at 2:40 PM, teddyaware said:

Except for maple syrup production, March 26th in Palmyra, New York looks no more like spring than January 15th. If this premise turns out to be correct, out the window goes “How Lovely Was The Morning.” 

Even down here in the most southern part of the state of New York, in practical terms, we consider March 26th to be no more spring than we consider the 15th of December to be Autumn.

As a nearby resident I can attest to this. Indeed today a few trees - very few - have just begun to show the earliest signs of budding leaves. Grass in sunnier spots has started to turn green, but not grow and there's still lots of brown. Crocuses are blossoming but not other earlier spring flowers (daffodils, tulips, etc.). It snowed (light covering) yesterday. If not for the calendar, I might call this late winter as opposed to early spring.

[Boanerges]

14 hours ago, teddyaware said:

But one thing I must admit, it certainly is good to know that in the early ‘calendar spring’ of 1820 it’s provable that there really was a beautiful, clear and unseasonably mild day!

 

And we do have those. Last Friday was near 70 (but much colder 30s the next day).

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, Boanerges said:

And we do have those. Last Friday was near 70 (but much colder 30s the next day).

Yup...

[Tacenda]

I don't understand why Joseph wouldn't date the writings about the first vision. That would be a very significant thing to leave out of such an awesome happening. And again, no date given for when Joseph received the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Tacenda

[Boanerges]

My wife and I do not always agree on what constitutes a "nice" day. Nice or beautiful to her might seem chilly and not so appealing to me. I would reckon similar differences might occur between Joseph Smith and me. After a cold winter heated only by a fireplace on one side of his home, a day in the 40s might seem like a beautiful day where to me it would need to be at least 60 (and sunny with no breeze).

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I don't understand why Joseph wouldn't date the writings about the first vision. That would be a very significant thing to leave out of such an awesome happening. And again, no date given for when Joseph received the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Some people pay little regard to the calendar dates.  He knew it was significant to himself, but I doubt that kid had a clue what it would mean to others. Why would he need a date to think about it for himself?  It was the experience that mattered to him, not when it took place.  It took time and experience and additional revelations for him to realize that it would mean something to others, I am guessing. 

Probably didn’t have appts as if sick, call the doctor or go to him, but no preventive treatments. Same with dentists. Church on Sunday. Parents probably paid attentions to dates, but as a kid he would be just doing what he was told and if not in school writing the date on his papers or possibly on his slate, why would he bother with a calendar back then?  Paper was not as cheap, probably didn’t have calendars stuck up everywhere like now.  As far as I am aware, none of the family did journals. The family bible would have birthdays or christenings, weddings, and deaths.  If they had an almanac, likely Dad that consulted it.

If he didn’t note the exact date when it occurred as a kid of that time might not, why would he include a guess when writing the history years later?

———

My daughter and I have tons of reminders around us, but because we only need to make connections with others for limited reasons, we generally do not know the date and have to check. TV shows used to help, but hardly ever watch stuff the night it comes out now. So even what day it is...before we got the reminder gadget to feed the dog, we often lose a day here and there (what, it’s Thursday...what happened to Wednesday?).  I can’t remember if it was four or six weeks ago I got my hair cut and have no clue what day it was. There is just no need for me to make the effort to track my life in that way any more. 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Calm

[marineland]

Why do we know the exact date of Smith's birth but not the exact date of the vision?

[rongo]

On 3/25/2020 at 8:30 AM, Tacenda said:

I don't understand why Joseph wouldn't date the writings about the first vision. That would be a very significant thing to leave out of such an awesome happening. And again, no date given for when Joseph received the Melchizedek Priesthood.

I don't think he was a journal-er then. I'm 44, and am a terrible journal keeper. I can generally say when significant events and spiritual experiences happened, but not with an exact date. And, it may be a couple of years off, but in the general ballpark of "time of my life." 

[Duncan]

On 3/25/2020 at 10:30 AM, Tacenda said:

I don't understand why Joseph wouldn't date the writings about the first vision. That would be a very significant thing to leave out of such an awesome happening. And again, no date given for when Joseph received the Melchizedek Priesthood.

maybe he did and it didn't survive? if I was booted around Missouri or hoofing it out to Utah i'd be pitching stuff like crazy!

[InCognitus]

3 hours ago, marineland said:

Why do we know the exact date of Smith's birth but not the exact date of the vision?

Civil jurisdictions require certification of births, marriages, and deaths.  This has been programmed into our thinking for centuries.  But can you name one civil jurisdiction that requires a certificate of heavenly visitations?

Edited March 26, 2020 by InCognitus