Restored Gospel?

[RichYoungRuler]

Of any passage in the Bible, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 provides the most clear and simple definition of "the gospel": We are saved if we keep in memory (i.e. believe) that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day.

KJV

"1 Moreover, brethren, I ^adeclare unto you the ^bgospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are ^asaved, if ye ^bkeep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ ^adied for our ^bsins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he ^arose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

JST

"1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received and wherein ye stand,

2 By which also ye are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures,"

I see no reference to keeping the commandments, enduring to the end or being judged according to works mentioned in "the gospel" as defined in 3 Nephi 27:13-17.

Why did Joseph Smith not restore the gospel when he "restored" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 

[CV75]

27 minutes ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Of any passage in the Bible, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 provides the most clear and simple definition of "the gospel": We are saved if we keep in memory (i.e. believe) that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day.

KJV

"1 Moreover, brethren, I ^adeclare unto you the ^bgospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are ^asaved, if ye ^bkeep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ ^adied for our ^bsins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he ^arose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

JST

"1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received and wherein ye stand,

2 By which also ye are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures,"

I see no reference to keeping the commandments, enduring to the end or being judged according to works mentioned in "the gospel" as defined in 3 Nephi 27:13-17.

Why did Joseph Smith not restore the gospel when he "restored" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 

The Gospel and the doctrine of Christ are technically two different things:

Gospel: 3 Nephi 27: 13 Behold I have given unto you my ^agospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the ^bwill of my Father, because my Father sent me.

Doctrine: 3 Nephi 11:32 And this is my ^adoctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear ^brecord of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the ^cHoly Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me. 33 And whoso believeth in me, and is ^abaptized, the same shall be ^bsaved; and they are they who shall ^cinherit the kingdom of God. 34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not ^abaptized, shall be damned. 35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso ^abelieveth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him ^bwith fire and with the ^cHoly Ghost.

More Doctrine (we endure, or abide in continued faith, repentance, the baptismal covenant, and companionship of the Holy Ghost -- these are not one-time acts but a lifestyle or discipleship): 3 Nephi 15: 8 For behold, the ^acovenant which I have made with my people [the Gospel] is not all fulfilled; but the law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me. 9 Behold, I am the ^alaw, and the ^blight. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall ^clive; for unto him that ^dendureth to the end will I give eternal life. 10 Behold, I have given unto you the ^acommandments; therefore keep my commandments [which include the doctrine]. And this is the law and the prophets, for they truly ^btestified of me.

 

[Jane_Doe]

43 minutes ago, RichYoungRuler said:

 

I see no reference to keeping the commandments, enduring to the end or being judged according to works mentioned in "the gospel" as defined in 3 Nephi 27:13-17.

Why did Joseph Smith not restore the gospel when he "restored" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 

Such a red herring.  

RichYoungRuler: I don't know you.  But I"m assuming that you're a person that doesn't believe in cheap grace, just like LDS Christians.

So let's just both acknowledge disciple of Christ is called to follow Him, and yes that does involve action (along with rest of your heart/mind/soul/might/etc).  Not just lip flapping.  

[pogi]

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Of any passage in the Bible, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 provides the most clear and simple definition of "the gospel": We are saved if we keep in memory (i.e. believe) that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day.

KJV

"1 Moreover, brethren, I ^adeclare unto you the ^bgospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are ^asaved, if ye ^bkeep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ ^adied for our ^bsins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he ^arose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

JST

"1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received and wherein ye stand,

2 By which also ye are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures,"

I see no reference to keeping the commandments, enduring to the end or being judged according to works mentioned in "the gospel" as defined in 3 Nephi 27:13-17.

Why did Joseph Smith not restore the gospel when he "restored" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 

I guess we don't have anything to worry about then as we do believe everything those passages say.  You can leave us alone now and go save someone else who doesn't believe in these things. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Of any passage in the Bible, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 provides the most clear and simple definition of "the gospel": We are saved if we keep in memory (i.e. believe) that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day.

KJV

"1 Moreover, brethren, I ^adeclare unto you the ^bgospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are ^asaved, if ye ^bkeep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ ^adied for our ^bsins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he ^arose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

JST

"1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received and wherein ye stand,

2 By which also ye are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures,"

I see no reference to keeping the commandments, enduring to the end or being judged according to works mentioned in "the gospel" as defined in 3 Nephi 27:13-17.

Why did Joseph Smith not restore the gospel when he "restored" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 

So members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are saved then.  

[RichYoungRuler]

26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

So members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are saved then.  

Why is there no mention of keeping the commandments in "the gospel" as very clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?  You can't claim this passage was incorrectly translated. 

Adding commandment keeping changes the gospel that was given.

Galatians 1:8-9 warn the early believers about people and even "angels from heaven" changing the gospel that Paul gave them.  He even repeated it a second time, emphasizing the importance.

"8 But though we, or an ^aangel from heaven, preach any ^bother ^cgospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ^daccursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other ^agospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ^baccursed."

[RichYoungRuler]

38 minutes ago, pogi said:

I guess we don't have anything to worry about then as we do believe everything those passages say.  You can leave us alone now and go save someone else who doesn't believe in these things. 

Is the gospel which you choose to believe different that the gospel found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 

We are saved if we keep in memory (i.e. believe) that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day.

[pogi]

 We believe everything it says we need to believe to be saved and promise to keep those things in memory every Sunday. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by pogi

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Why did Joseph Smith not restore the gospel when he "restored" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 

According to the Prophet Joseph Smith, “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 121).

 

[bluebell]

32 minutes ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Why is there no mention of keeping the commandments in "the gospel" as very clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?  You can't claim this passage was incorrectly translated. 

Adding commandment keeping changes the gospel that was given.

Galatians 1:8-9 warn the early believers about people and even "angels from heaven" changing the gospel that Paul gave them.  He even repeated it a second time, emphasizing the importance.

"8 But though we, or an ^aangel from heaven, preach any ^bother ^cgospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ^daccursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other ^agospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ^baccursed."

What does it matter?  You said these verses prove we are saved. Isn’t that your concern?

Or is this more about you wanting to be right than it is about anyone’s soul?

[CV75]

50 minutes ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Is the gospel which you choose to believe different that the gospel found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 

We are saved if we keep in memory (i.e. believe) that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day.

What does the Bible say about the doctrine of Christ and its relationship with the Gospel (i.e. Jesus Himself -- who self-identifies as the Law -- and His works as mentioned in bold above)?

[MustardSeed]

Dont worry about it Rich. Everything will work out.  

[CV75]

3 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Why did Joseph Smith not restore the gospel when he "restored" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? 

The restoration is an ongoing process. The whole concept is to restore the fulness of the Gospel to the earth. The fulness of the Gospel is discussed briefly in John 1:15-18 and requires the exercise of the sealing keys (Ephesians 1 - 4 especially addresses this, and for example, is the authority under which Paul ministers in Colossians 1). The fulness was taken away from the earth with the Great Apostasy by the removal of the exercise of the sealing keys from the earth. Only the "form of godliness" remained in the biblical texts and the traditions of the faithful.

[Ahab]

5 minutes ago, CV75 said:

The restoration is an ongoing process. The whole concept is to restore the fulness of the Gospel to the earth. The fulness of the Gospel is discussed briefly in John 1:15-18 and requires the exercise of the sealing keys (Ephesians 1 - 4 especially addresses this, and for example, is the authority under which Paul ministers in Colossians 1). The fulness was taken away from the earth with the Great Apostasy by the removal of the exercise of the sealing keys from the earth. Only the "form of godliness" remained in the biblical texts and the traditions of the faithful.

Key words, there.  Our Lord said the world in general, including the then existent churches of men, had a form of godliness but they denied the power thereof. 

Interesting how they still seem to be denying it while thinking they have it.  I think some of them don't even know what the power of godliness is.   And yet in truth they do deny it when they do not accept the true power.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Ahab

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Why is there no mention of keeping the commandments in "the gospel" as very clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?  You can't claim this passage was incorrectly translated. 

Adding commandment keeping changes the gospel that was given.

Galatians 1:8-9 warn the early believers about people and even "angels from heaven" changing the gospel that Paul gave them.  He even repeated it a second time, emphasizing the importance.

"8 But though we, or an ^aangel from heaven, preach any ^bother ^cgospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ^daccursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other ^agospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ^baccursed."

So stop doing it so you can get out from under that curse.

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Why is there no mention of keeping the commandments in "the gospel" as very clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?  You can't claim this passage was incorrectly translated. 

Adding commandment keeping changes the gospel that was given.

Galatians 1:8-9 warn the early believers about people and even "angels from heaven" changing the gospel that Paul gave them.  He even repeated it a second time, emphasizing the importance.

"8 But though we, or an ^aangel from heaven, preach any ^bother ^cgospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ^daccursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other ^agospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ^baccursed."

Again, RichYoungRuler, I don't know you.  But your comments in this thread seem to idicate that you believe that:

1) You do not believe in giving your heat, mind, and soul to Christ & following Him, and 

2) Salvation comes via man's ability to pass a theology test.  Accepting Christ isn't sufficient.  

You have your right to believe those thing.   But no one where should follow you, as ironically stated in Galations 1.  Rather, each of us in going to strive to follow Christ and what He reveals to each of us.

 

Have a nice day.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

What does it matter?  You said these verses prove we are saved. Isn’t that your concern?

He is worried that people who try to serve God are doing too much maybe? Wouldn’t want to work our our salvation with fear and trembling as the Bible recommends when you can do it with the relative ease of accepting the intellectual truth of the atonement of Christ. I mean the latter is hard. Only Christians, angels, and devils will be saved.

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Or is this more about you wanting to be right than it is about anyone’s soul?

Now it seems you are suggesting that one’s righteousness must exceed that of the self-satisfied Pharisees to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? More blasphemy added to the gospel.  

[Maidservant]

5 hours ago, RichYoungRuler said:

Galatians 1:8-9 warn the early believers about people and even "angels from heaven" changing the gospel that Paul gave them.  He even repeated it a second time, emphasizing the importance.

"8 But though we, or an ^aangel from heaven, preach any ^bother ^cgospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ^daccursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other ^agospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ^baccursed."

I really dislike when people proof text with this passage. It's meant to be understood within an entire context that is multiple chapters long; and it's basically Paul being nasty to Peter, because he thought Peter was doing wrong (which he may, indeed, have been). And if I remember correctly, Paul's concern and Peter's eventual understanding was a greater inclusion of what God considered clean i.e. the gentiles and their habits.

Never, ever understand the gospel and how we are meant to be embodying it from a couple isolated verses. Besides what the heck does accursed mean? It's not a technical term.

P.S. Paul didn't give the gospel.

 

[RichYoungRuler]

15 hours ago, pogi said:

We believe everything it says we need to believe to be saved and promise to keep those things in memory every Sunday. 

The question isn't "do you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins?".

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is the single most clear and concise definition of "the gospel", and there is no mention of keeping the commandments.

Changing "keep in memory" to "keep the commandments" is not the same gospel.  Belief in Jesus Christ is not a subset of "the gospel", it is the gospel.

[RichYoungRuler]

15 hours ago, Amulek said:

According to the Prophet Joseph Smith, “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 121).

My point exactly.  You can't add anything to "the gospel" and still have the same gospel - even if you label it a divinely inspired "appendage".

Keep in mind the warning that there would be those who would claim divine instruction from heaven to do this very thing "though we, or an ^aangel from heaven, preach any ^bother ^cgospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ^daccursed". Gal 1:8

[RichYoungRuler]

15 hours ago, bluebell said:

What does it matter?  You said these verses prove we are saved. Isn’t that your concern?

Or is this more about you wanting to be right than it is about anyone’s soul?

I fear for anyone deceived in believing a false gospel - one that turns away from simplicity of simple belief in Christ to keeping an ambiguous list of commandments.

"3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the ^aserpent ^bbeguiled Eve through his ^csubtilty, so your minds should be ^dcorrupted from the ^esimplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another ^aJesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another ^bgospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

[RichYoungRuler]

15 hours ago, CV75 said:

What does the Bible say about the doctrine of Christ and its relationship with the Gospel (i.e. Jesus Himself -- who self-identifies as the Law -- and His works as mentioned in bold above)?

First clarify what you are calling "the gospel".

You quoted 3 Nephi 27:13, which is the best place in the BoM to define "the gospel", so we can compare, but you didn't include all of the passage which identifies what "gospel" is being presented:

 "13 Behold I have given unto you my ^agospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the ^bwill of my Father, because my Father sent me.

14 And my Father sent me that I might be ^alifted up upon the ^bcross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the ^ccross, that I might ^ddraw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be ^ejudged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—

15 And for this cause have I been ^alifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their ^bworks.

16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso ^arepenteth and is baptized in my ^bname shall be filled; and if he ^cendureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the ^ajustice of the Father."

How do you explain the disparity between "the gospel" found in the Book of Mormon with "the gospel" found in the Bible?  

"Keep in memory" is NOT the same as keeping the commandments.

[RichYoungRuler]

14 hours ago, CV75 said:

The restoration is an ongoing process. The whole concept is to restore the fulness of the Gospel to the earth. The fulness of the Gospel is discussed briefly in John 1:15-18 and requires the exercise of the sealing keys (Ephesians 1 - 4 especially addresses this, and for example, is the authority under which Paul ministers in Colossians 1). The fulness was taken away from the earth with the Great Apostasy by the removal of the exercise of the sealing keys from the earth. Only the "form of godliness" remained in the biblical texts and the traditions of the faithful.

Why did Joseph Smith not clarify the "fullness of the gospel" when he "correctly translated" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

Again, he didn't change a thing and that passage very plainly states "the gospel by which ye are saved".

If you, me or an angel from heaven add anything to that gospel which he gave, let that person be accursed.  He even repeated it!

Bottom line, mormons choose to believe another gospel.

[Amulek]

37 minutes ago, RichYoungRuler said:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is the single most clear and concise definition of "the gospel", and there is no mention of keeping the commandments.

Maybe not in that specific passage, but Jesus seemed to be pretty big on the subject. 

"...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matt. 19:17)

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15)

And the Apostle John said, "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

Or, if you want to stick with Paul (who modern day protestants seem to worship more than even Jesus), he said "Be ye followers of me, even as I am of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:1)

And then, again, in Romans, "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" (v. 12). And "obeying the commandments of God is everything." (1 Cor. 7:19, NRSV)

Seriously, we can go all day like this. But it ultimately comes down to the simple fact that it's impossible to be an authentic disciple of Jesus Christ unless you are genuinely willing to follow Him. 

Accepting Christ is like having a sign that says, "Under new management." If you think that means just believing something and not having to actually do anything, you are sadly mistaken.

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Amulek

[bluebell]

23 minutes ago, RichYoungRuler said:

I fear for anyone deceived in believing a false gospel - one that turns away from simplicity of simple belief in Christ to keeping an ambiguous list of commandments.

"3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the ^aserpent ^bbeguiled Eve through his ^csubtilty, so your minds should be ^dcorrupted from the ^esimplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another ^aJesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another ^bgospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

But if we are saved, what does it matter if we believe in a false gospel?  And you said that if we are following these verses then we are saved.