Trump participates in National Day of Prayer at White House

[snowflake]

If you haven't taken the time to watch the national day of prayer if is well worth it. May God bless and protect our President, the leaders of this great country, and help unify us as citizens! It's wonderful to see such a diverse group of Christians and Jews coming together to pray for our country! The LDS representative was Sister Joy D Jones the Primary General President.... (her prayer begins around 32:20) and I enjoyed her  wonderful prayer. 

[Kevin Christensen]

Ever since Trump's election, despite loosing the popular vote by 3 million, thanks to 79,000 votes in 3 states in an election in which covert Russian propaganda reached as many as 129 million voters, my prayer for the nation has been "God help us."  Considering what has been going on, from massively increased National deficits, hate crimes, social divisiveness, assaults on health care for the poor, jailing and rejecting legitimate refugees whose lives are endangered partially because US policy has failed in the home countries, family separations with no systematic means of reuniting families employed as a "deterrent" , a 90% decrease in prosecutions of white collar crimes, deregulation that permits increased pollution and environmental destruction with consequent health costs that fall disproportionately on the poor, whose health care is threatened daily, Presidential rallies that regularly produce a 200% plus increase in hate crimes in the counties in which they occur, chronic mass shootings, often by fans of the President who echo his divisive rhetoric, tax cuts that favor the rich and massively increase the deficit with the long term strategy of forcing a financial crisis that will permit the destruction of social security and medicare and ease the means for the rich to get richer on the backs of the poor, disrupting trust with our closest allies, weakening NATO, creating record deficits while China has record profits thanks to tariffs paid by US citizens for a trade war that was supposedly "easy to win",  while kissing up to dictators, by a Cadet Bone Spur draft evader who mocks Gold Star families and POWs, all by a President who has surpassed 10,000 lies while in office...  and Measles  coming back under a President who along with everything else dubious, ignorant, and divisive, parrots the anti-vaxers.

As a nation we do have a lot to pray about.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

[MustardSeed]

While this thread risks political rant, regardless of my opinion of the president I’m grateful that we still allow for this beautiful event in our faith failing nation.  Thank you for this post. 

[The Nehor]

I do not hold out much hope for the efficacy of prayer for or by an unrepentant serial adulterer and liar.

[MiserereNobis]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

I do not hold out much hope for the efficacy of prayer for or by an unrepentant serial adulterer and liar.

Maybe an exorcism is in order..?

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said:

Maybe an exorcism is in order..?

As I said in the other thread it does not work as well when there is only one unclean spirit in there. 💣 

Edited May 3, 2019 by The Nehor

[MiserereNobis]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

As I said in the other thread it does not work as well when there is only one unclean spirit in there. 💣 

Legion? Hugely. 

[BlueDreams]

Prayer and positive well-wishing, proclamation for greater unity, etc are empty platitudes to me without actions that meet the words. I don’t fault the many likely good religious leaders who attended, including our own. When i was skimming through some of it, i heard one leader specifically talk about integrity and moral character. I pray that that can one day be better re-established. In this current national head of state, I do not hold hope for such a thing. I pray moreso that his shameful behavior will not permanently drive us into the immoral/unethical ground. I pray that one day this land can feel like a welcoming place for my internationally expanding family. I pray that my children will have a brighter future on a cleaner/fairer earth as we wake up to what we’ve done to it and ourselves in the pursuit of luxuries and wealthy.  I pray that we can still change into something better than we currently are today.

 

with luv, 

BD 

Edited May 3, 2019 by BlueDreams

[LoudmouthMormon]

dl

Edited May 3, 2019 by LoudmouthMormon

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Ever since Trump's election, despite loosing the popular vote by 3 million, thanks to 79,000 votes in 3 states in an election in which covert Russian propaganda reached as many as 129 million voters, my prayer for the nation has been "God help us."  

We don’t elect our presidents by popular vote. Never have. There is good reason for that. Otherwise, the populous coastal states would be deciding each and every presidential election, a prospect I for one shudder to think about. 

And while no one approves of Russian propaganda in our election process, there is no evidence that such propaganda changed a single vote in 2016. And, as has lately been established by the Mueller Report, there is no evidence of Russian collusion in the Trump campaign. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[Glenn101]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I do not hold out much hope for the efficacy of prayer for or by an unrepentant serial adulterer and liar.

John F. kennedy has been dead for years and Bill Clinton is no longer president. Why go after them now????

I hope that everyone can see my point and let's just pray for the country and the leaders that we do have, that they all will put aside differences and start working together to fix the problems that everyone is alluding to but seemingly just blaming one person. Criticism for stupid stuff is warranted but then that is all we would do because there is plenty of stupid stuff happening all around.

Glenn

[Glenn101]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

We don’t elect our presidents by popular vote. Never have. There is good reason for that. Otherwise, the populous coastal states would be deciding each and every presidential election, a prospect i for one shudder to think about

That is true. The plurality of popular votes was entirely due to California where Hillary Clinton won the state by over four million votes. Leaving out California, trump won the vote by 1.6 million. Do we really want our country to be that heavily influenced by one state like California, or a handful of states?

Glenn

[MiserereNobis]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Otherwise, the populous coastal states would be deciding each and every presidential election, a prospect i for one shudder to think about. 

This argument is based on the political leanings of voters rather than some sort of principle of how a democracy should function. That's problematic because it makes the rules of democracy dependent upon political views. I imagine you wouldn't have the same view if the coastal states were conservative.

There is a movement to get around the electoral college without amending the constitution. My state just joined the National Popular Vote Insterstate Compact. It is an agreement among states to award all their electoral college votes to the winner of the popular vote. It wouldn't go into effect the number of states who have joined equal at least 270 electoral votes. Right now it sits at 189 electoral votes.

From wikipedia:

Quote

The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC) is an agreement among a group of U.S. states and the District of Columbia to award all their electoral votes to whichever presidential candidate wins the overall popular vote in the 50 states and the District of Columbia. The compact is designed to ensure that the candidate who receives the most votes nationwide is elected president, and it would come into effect only when it would guarantee that outcome.[2][3] As of April 2019, it has been adopted by fourteen states and the District of Columbia. Together, they have 189 electoral votes, which is 35.1% of the Electoral College and 70% of the 270 votes needed to give the compact legal force.

I think it is an ingenious idea. It asserts states' rights, shows cooperation among states, and follows the constitution since states can award their electoral votes in any manner they see fit. 

[MiserereNobis]

7 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

Do we really want our country to be that heavily influenced by one state like California, or a handful of states?

Do we want to give voters in less populous states a greater voice than voters in more populous states? Why should a voter who lives in California have less of a say than a voter who lives in Kentucky?

It goes down to this: do individuals elect the president or do the states elect the president. Obviously the founders wanted the states to elect. However, especially post-civil war, Americans are evolving to think of the president as their president, not the president of the states. Is it "the united states" or "these united states."

I think the election of the president should be updated to reflect the will of the people, not the will of the states.

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

This argument is based on the political leanings of voters rather than some sort of principle of how a democracy should function. That's problematic because it makes the rules of democracy dependent upon political views. I imagine you wouldn't have the same view if the coastal states were conservative.

There is a movement to get around the electoral college without amending the constitution. My state just joined the National Popular Vote Insterstate Compact. It is an agreement among states to award all their electoral college votes to the winner of the popular vote. It wouldn't go into effect the number of states who have joined equal at least 270 electoral votes. Right now it sits at 189 electoral votes.

From wikipedia:

I think it is an ingenious idea. It asserts states' rights, shows cooperation among states, and follows the constitution since states can award their electoral votes in any manner they see fit. 

Yes, believe it or not, for the reason I’ve already expressed, I would hold the same position if, by some highly unlikely fluke, the coastal states turned conservative by the next election. We have very different interests and needs where I live than they do in California or on the Eastern Seaboard, and I would never want to give them absolute control over presidential politics. 

Your comments about democracy reflect a common but mistaken belief that we in the United States live under a pure democracy. We do not. We live under a representative, constitutional republic. It’s what hinders the trampling of minority rights. 

[Kevin Christensen]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

We don’t elect our presidents by popular vote. Never have. There is good reason for that. Otherwise, the populous coastal states would be deciding each and every presidential election, a prospect i for one shudder to think about. 

And while no one approves of Russian propaganda in our election process, there is no evidence that such propaganda changed a single vote in 2016. And, as has lately been established by the Mueller Report, there is no evidence of Russian collusion in the Trump campaign. 

The good initial reason was the insecurity of slavers wanted to ensure their freedom do as they pleased with who they termed property.  The electoral college now functions as a kind of gerrymandering, something that one party is notably extreme and shameless to impose and exploit.  Voter suppression by any other name violates the spirit of and definition of democracy.

How do you know that Russian propaganda did not influence a single vote?   If over 100 million people encountered Russian propaganda materials, often because it was retweeted or recommended by Facebook friends, how can you possibly say that not one person changed their mind due to the Russian influence campaign?  Trump people have been shown to use their stuff, retweeting, liking, quoting, passing along.  The Russians even managed to organize public demonstrations of Americans who thought they were responding to American organizers.   My personal reading (not Barr filtering) of the Mueller Report (which expressly says that collusion is not a legal term) shows me all sorts of dubious contacts and clear understanding by the campaign that Russian efforts would help the Trump cause (which is part of why they didn't patriotically call the FBI and lied so often about Russian contacts they had made--backdoor channel to Moscow--, and why the Mueller report mentions the presence of deleted emails from crucial players at crucial times, and encrypted messaging that could not be decrypted and examined as evidence), and things like the timing of the release of the stolen emails to within hours of the handsy Trump recordings, and the candidate referring to the stolen emails over 100 times in the last weeks of the campaign, inviting Russian intervention at a News Conference (not as a joke as a Rally as he recently tried to recompose it) as well as campaign members retweeting Russian propaganda, all suggests to me that it takes a particularly hardline view of what could possibly count as evidence to dismiss the reality that our democracy was successfully attacked.   And how much effort exactly has the current administration made to punish or discourage Russian intervention?  Helsinki?  Quietly gIving back two embassys that Obama had seized in retaliation?  That's the opposite of a slap on the wrist.  More like an engagement ring.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

 

[Scott Lloyd]

19 minutes ago, Kevin Christensen said:

The good initial reason was the insecurity of slavers wanted to ensure their freedom do as they pleased with who they termed property.  The electoral college now functions as a kind of gerrymandering, something that one party is notably extreme and shameless to impose and exploit.  Voter suppression by any other name violates the spirit of and definition of democracy.

How do you know that Russian propaganda did not influence a single vote?   If over 100 million people encountered Russian propaganda materials, often because it was retweeted or recommended by Facebook friends, how can you possibly say that not one person changed their mind due to the Russian influence campaign?  Trump people have been shown to use their stuff, retweeting, liking, quoting, passing along.  The Russians even managed to organize public demonstrations of Americans who thought they were responding to American organizers.   My personal reading (not Barr filtering) of the Mueller Report (which expressly says that collusion is not a legal term) shows me all sorts of dubious contacts and clear understanding by the campaign that Russian efforts would help the Trump cause (which is part of why they didn't patriotically call the FBI and lied so often about Russian contacts they had made--backdoor channel to Moscow--, and why the Mueller report mentions the presence of deleted emails from crucial players at crucial times, and encrypted messaging that could not be decrypted and examined as evidence), and things like the timing of the release of the stolen emails to within hours of the handsy Trump recordings, and the candidate referring to the stolen emails over 100 times in the last weeks of the campaign, inviting Russian intervention at a News Conference (not as a joke as a Rally as he recently tried to recompose it) as well as campaign members retweeting Russian propaganda, all suggests to me that it takes a particularly hardline view of what could possibly count as evidence to dismiss the reality that our democracy was successfully attacked.   And how much effort exactly has the current administration made to punish or discourage Russian intervention?  Helsinki?  Quietly gIving back two embassys that Obama had seized in retaliation?  That's the opposite of a slap on the wrist.  More like an engagement ring.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

 

No one to my knowledge has yet offered proof that Russian meddling influenced a single vote. You can suppose all day long, but with no evidence, supposition is all it will ever be. 

The current movement to eliminate the electoral college strikes me as symptomatic of the sour grapes attitude that has beset us since November 2016. I don’t recall the sentiment to eliminate it ever being this strong before. 

As I said to Miserere, we live in a representative republic, not a democracy. The electoral college is one feature of that republic, part of its genius. 

And Swalwell taking seriously Trump’s joke at the rally is an absurd manifestation of Trump Derangement Syndrome, a pathetic stretch to find something, anything, no matter how implausible to support the narrative and undo a legitimate election. Really, Kevin, I have admired your wisdom over the years. This is quite uncharacteristic if you. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[MustardSeed]

I thought we were talking about a day of prayer. 🥴

[MiserereNobis]

40 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As I said to Miserere, we live in a representative republic, not a democracy. The electoral college is one feature of that republic, part of its genius. 

An electoral college does not a republic make. We can still have a republic without it. Governors are elected directly, not by counties, and our states are still republics.

And it's not sour grapes for me, though obviously I don't speak for all. I've thought it terribly unfair that voters in different states have different amounts of influence on the presidential election based on the electoral college.

[Gray]

This just in: event cancelled due to sudden indoor thunderstorm.

[Gray]

54 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

No one to my knowledge has yet offered proof that Russian meddling influenced a single vote. You can suppose all day long, but with no evidence, supposition is all it will ever be. 

 

Given the vast scope of their influence operations and the razor thin margins required for a Trump victory, it is beyond unbelievable that they didn't influence many votes. If less than 1% of the people exposed to Russian propaganda were swayed, that would have been enough to secure a Trump win.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I do not hold out much hope for the efficacy of prayer for or by an unrepentant serial adulterer and liar.

Then there is no hope for any of us, for we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. As Elder Holland said,

Quote

However late you think you are [he is], however many chances you think you have [he has] missed, however many mistakes you feel you have [he has] made or talents you think you don’t [he doesn't] have, or however far from home and family and God you feel you have [he has] traveled, I testify that you have [he has] not traveled beyond the reach of divine love. It is not possible for you [him] to sink lower than the infinite light of Christ’s Atonement shines.

 

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Prayer and positive well-wishing, proclamation for greater unity, etc are empty platitudes to me without actions that meet the words. I don’t fault the many likely good religious leaders who attended, including our own. When i was skimming through some of it, i heard one leader specifically talk about integrity and moral character. I pray that that can one day be better re-established. In this current national head of state, I do not hold hope for such a thing. I pray moreso that his shameful behavior will not permanently drive us into the immoral/unethical ground. I pray that one day this land can feel like a welcoming place for my internationally expanding family. I pray that my children will have a brighter future on a cleaner/fairer earth as we wake up to what we’ve done to it and ourselves in the pursuit of luxuries and wealthy.  I pray that we can still change into something better than we currently are today.

with luv, 

BD 

 

This did not begin with the current occupant of the WH. Nor will it end when he leaves. 

"And I will buy up.....and reign with blood and horror...."

Edited May 3, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Gray]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Then there is no hope for any of us, for we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. As Elder Holland said,

 

The operative word is "unrepentant"

[Bernard Gui]

22 minutes ago, Gray said:

The operative word is "unrepentant"

Actually, the operative word is "judgement," as in the Savior's words......

Quote

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Bernard Gui