What is love?

[changed]

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

Fairytales appear to be relatively boring after the evil is destroyed.

Women's sole purpose is to care for a man or his children in the vast majority of them.  Many of them don't even present the women as having a choice in whether or not they love the man who seeks them out.  It is all love at first sight...love based purely on appearance (beauty) or position (king or king's daughter).

In many the woman shows her ultimate goodness by suffering in silence.

And let's not forget the mostly gruesome fates for those who disagreed with the heros.  And everyone else gets to serve the power couple.

Strange, that these are the stories chosen generation after generation to repeat over and over again, isn't it?  Why do you suppose humanity chose these, out of all other stories?

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, changed said:

Strange, that these are the stories chosen generation after generation to repeat over and over again, isn't it?  Why do you suppose humanity chose these, out of all other stories?

Each generation adds its own variations to make them acceptable to the community, they are only semi repeated...you currently have the Disney and Star Wars versions.  But the stories we tell shape culture as  well as being shaped by culture.  (Think of the issue of how Disney Princesses appearances have changed over the years and the controversy surrounding such)

Changes....Do most people think of God when thinking of fairytales?  Yet the original forms often had religious themes, in the time of the Grimms especially the devil.  Cannabilism and incest are generally left out of the modern versions as well.

Good stories are remade over and over (think how many Spider-Man versions are out there now).  Shakespeare borrowed heavily from ancient myth and modern movies from him.  

Otoh there are plenty of fairytales that are forgotten, probably more than are remembered.  

Edited January 31, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

Btw, Sleeping Beauty was based on the tale of a married king raping and impregnating a sleeping young beauty, who only awakens after one of the twins that is the result starts breastfeeding.

However, all is well because the king ends up marrying her after his queen tries to feed the twins to him in revenge and burn Talia, the beauty, but instead gets thrown on the fire.  Apparently Talia is okay with being raped because it has given her two beautiful children and a throne eventually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun,_Moon,_and_Talia

So not so much repeating these tales as ripping off the interesting and acceptable bits, imo.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Calm

[changed]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Each generation adds its own variations to make them acceptable to the community,

exactly - fair tales embody a little of the communities struggles,  a thought experiment used in problem solving - wishful thinking, with the end exemplifying everyone's hopes and dreams for a happily ever after...  There is something of the mindset of humanity within the symbolic stories.

 

... and within this forum, it appears everyone's wishful happily ever after is #1: close relationship with children, and #2.  a monogamous "one and only".  

Edited January 31, 2019 by changed

[rodheadlee]

On 1/29/2019 at 7:48 AM, changed said:

Let me not to the marriage of true minds 
Admit impediments. Love is not love 
Which alters when it alteration finds, 
Or bends with the remover to remove: 
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark 
That looks on tempests and is never shaken; 
It is the star to every wandering bark, 
Whose worth’s unknown, although his height be taken 
Love’s not Time’s fool, though rosy lips and cheeks 
Within his bending sickle’s compass come: 
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks, 
But bears it out even to the edge of doom. 
   If this be error and upon me proved, 
   I never writ, nor no man ever loved. 

 

[The Nehor]

We sanitized and simplified fairy tales when we decided they were for children. Well that, and to avoid damagin the supposed delicate sensibilities of the Victorians.

Edited February 1, 2019 by The Nehor

[Jeanne]

I am an oldie but goodie...to the OP..love means never having to say you're sorry. 

[Rivers]

 

[Garden Girl]

Fellow Posters...

I want to share an experience...

As many of you know, I was an ordinance worker in the Portland OR temple for six years... every Friday...  When I was called I went to the temple president's office to be set apart... I received a beautiful blessing.  As I left the office I decided to go through a session, so I walked across this large area leading to the dressing rooms to change into my temple clothes.  As I walked across the room, I was stunned at the love I felt for everyone I saw... Words can barely describe it, it was so deep and completely filled me to where tears filled my eyes.  I had never experienced that depth of feeling, and it awed me that I was even capable of such feeling... I sat in the little changing booth for a few minutes just pondering what had happened... my thoughts were that I had been given a wonderful gift... a brief glimpse of the love that Heavenly Father has for us... that the Savior has for us that allowed him to give his life and suffer the atonement...  and that experience would allow me to serve my sisters as I performed eternal ordinances for them... when I left the temple I drove home, still feeling the glow of my experience.  

from the beach on a rainy afternoon... GG

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I am an oldie but goodie...to the OP..love means never having to say you're sorry. 

Great way to end up divorcing, imo.  Words matter.  If it is important to say "I love you" and "you are important to me", it is important to say "I am sorry" and mean it.

Your loved one can't read your mind.  Be kind and don't make them struggle so hard trying to guess what is the right thing to do for you or how you feel from body language.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Calm

[Garden Girl]

2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I am an oldie but goodie...to the OP..love means never having to say you're sorry. 

Jeanne... I'm an oldie too... and I couldn't stand that line... IMO love means you can say you're sorry and mean it...

GG

edit to add... Calm, I was typing while you posted, and I agree wholeheartedly... 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Garden Girl

[Jeanne]

Oh you guys...I was just being and oldie...I didn't mean anything by it.  If I hadn't said I was sorry a thousand times..my relationships would never have lasted.  Just an old phrase but thank you for calling me out.

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Great way to end up divorcing, imo.  

Lol! I agree. My husband often says "I'm sorry" to me and I KNOW he loves me. He just has his dad's Danish temper and he yells sometimes which he knows I hate. I actually kind of like it now because then he shows the "increase of love" we hear about (usually in the form of Ben Franklin) 🙊

[ksfisher]

5 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I am an oldie but goodie...to the OP..love means never having to say you're sorry. 

I like Ryan O'Neill's response to Barbra Streisand when she says that line to him in "What's Up Doc?"

"That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard."

[pogi]

Foreigner and Haddaway in the same thread?  This has got to be one of my favorite threads ever!  

I think I am going to play devil's advocate on this one though:

 

[Anijen]

Love, I think, is different to each person, from one culture to another can be different, and at different levels.

For example; in the world we have a western notion of love. We see this in dating rituals etc.. We are attracted, date, fall in love, get married. However, in some other parts of the world that romantic notion of love is much different. Most times the dating aspect is absent. There are; caste cultures, arranged marriage culture's, were the idea of romantic love is replaced with the learn and grow in love... Admittingly, the latter is losing popularity everyday, but it is still out there.

Brotherly/sisterly love. Romantic love. Religious love (if ye love me keep my commandments). Love that is so strong motivates sacrifice (i.e. the Savior, a mother for her child, a patriotic soldier, etc.). 

I do not think we can pin the tail on the donkey of love and say that is love. I do think there are many types of love and they show themselves in the aggregate.

 

[Garden Girl]

3 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Oh you guys...I was just being and oldie...I didn't mean anything by it.  If I hadn't said I was sorry a thousand times..my relationships would never have lasted.  Just an old phrase but thank you for calling me out.

Oh no, Jeanne... I wasn't "calling you out" at all... I'm with ksfisher in that I just think it was a dumb line because it really isn't realistic...

GG

[Calm]

Just now, Garden Girl said:

Oh no, Jeanne... I wasn't "calling you out" at all... I'm with ksfisher in that I just think it was a dumb line because it really isn't realistic...

GG

It is one of those one liners  that sound good until you start thinking it through.

If it actually means love means we always forgive each other, I can almost accept that (I still go to places like "does love mean we have to forgive the one we love for hitting us or other abuse?" and think "depends on what we mean by forgive").