cdowis Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, SteveO said: Well no, but they should still probably spend more money on charity. It’s a big concern of mine. Interesting....... just a matter of curiosity, what percent of your income goes to the poor, the neglected , the homeless? Service hours -- soup kitchen, hurricane cleanup? This is certainly your concern put into action, is it not. Edited January 23, 2019 by cdowis
Tacenda Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 Very interesting podcasts so far, with Dan Vogel. https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/dan-vogel/ John mentions that he wants to couple these with the billboard questions, I guess.
SteveO Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, cdowis said: Interesting....... just a matter of curiosity, what percent of your income goes to the poor, the neglected , the homeless? Edited January 23, 2019 by SteveO 1
mfbukowski Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, cdowis said: Interesting....... just a matter of curiosity, what percent of your income goes to the poor, the neglected , the homeless? Service hours -- soup kitchen, hurricane cleanup? This is certainly your concern put into action, is it not. Uh, humanitarian aid? Are you really asking him how much he contributes to that? None of your beeswax. And what was that about not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing? Edited January 23, 2019 by mfbukowski
cdowis Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said: https://www.mormonstories.org/truthclaims/ Lets give Dehlin's salary a boost, shall we? My suggestion, 1. Change name to Mormon Stories Ministry 2. Give "Witnessing to Mormons" seminars to some of the larger churches. 3. The donations should flow in freely as you share your love of the Mormons, giving stories of saving them from this evil cult.. Edited January 23, 2019 by cdowis 2
bluebell Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 36 minutes ago, cdowis said: Interesting....... just a matter of curiosity, what percent of your income goes to the poor, the neglected , the homeless? Service hours -- soup kitchen, hurricane cleanup? This is certainly your concern put into action, is it not. He was being sarcastic cdowis, and poking fun at the people who spend so much time being concerned about whether or not our church is being Christian enough in how they handle the money they have access to when they are not nearly as interesting in making sure they are spending their own money in as Christlike a way as possible. 3
rockpond Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, SteveO said: That IS a good point isn’t it? Everyone I have ever met that wants the church to disclose it finances has been a significant donor to the church. I dismiss the arguments of anyone who isn't a donor. So, while it is a good point it is really a rather obvious and pedestrian point. I assume then that you are withdrawing your criticisms of Dehlin since you are not a donor. Am I correct? 2
rockpond Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 38 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Very interesting podcasts so far, with Dan Vogel. https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/dan-vogel/ John mentions that he wants to couple these with the billboard questions, I guess. Dehlin mentioned in a recent podcast that online visits and downloads were up about 18% with their last billboard campaign. I believe that they have already put up a new billboard promoting the first of their "truth claims" essays.
rockpond Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, esodije said: Dehlin will have to find a way to make his content more interesting, as everything he’s done in recent years sounds like a broken record. He's done some very fascinating interviews lately. The David Bokovoy series was outstanding. I loved the Dusty Johns podcasts as well. I've just started the Dan Vogel series but I've heard it's good as well. You may feel like everything he has done in recent years sounds like a broken record but the numbers indicate growth for OSF and Mormon Stories. 1
Popular Post clarkgoble Posted January 23, 2019 Popular Post Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, rockpond said: Yes. OSF publishes its finances on their website for all to review. They have for many years. Only after a rather large controversy in 2017 over finances. So saying "they have for many years" seems problematic. https://rationalfaiths.com/john-dehlins-osf-finances-q-raised-qs/ I don't follow things enough to know if they now have responded to all the points of the controversy, including compensation to others other than Dehlin - particularly his wife. But this certainly was a rather recent issue. Edited January 23, 2019 by clarkgoble 5
Jeanne Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, rockpond said: He's done some very fascinating interviews lately. The David Bokovoy series was outstanding. I loved the Dusty Johns podcasts as well. I've just started the Dan Vogel series but I've heard it's good as well. You may feel like everything he has done in recent years sounds like a broken record but the numbers indicate growth for OSF and Mormon Stories. I recently finished the Bokovoy and Vogel interviews...they were so great and informing on many levels. Neither one of these guys slammed the church..they were honest in their search and redeemed the church in ways that were true and compelling. All this meaning that they informed trust to those who listened John has done so much better with his questioning and his inviting audience is on both sides. Yes, he does ask for donations...but you can find out where things go. One thing...you pay what you can...if you want. You don't have to pay 10% for a white wash version of events. As far as donations to the needy...we can do this as a group on mormon stories anytime...but he doesn't say that is what he is going to do with the money. Honest about that. He doesn't say that is what he is going to do like other organizations do. All I can say is that in all these years, I have never listened so much to all of the podcasts..but I am simple amazed at what I have missed and my overall understanding of what real questions and answers mean...I will quit while I am behind. But integrity is everything and that is hard to find in the apostles sometimes. I am being open because I have been so quiet in my studies. I do try to be fair, open minded and have great love for all people. My concern is that in any narrow path, you miss out on so much. 1
The Nehor Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, rockpond said: Everyone I have ever met that wants the church to disclose it finances has been a significant donor to the church. I dismiss the arguments of anyone who isn't a donor. So, while it is a good point it is really a rather obvious and pedestrian point. I assume then that you are withdrawing your criticisms of Dehlin since you are not a donor. Am I correct? I have met non-donors who complain. I also knew one guy who complained endlessly about how the government was misusing his hard-earned tax money. He is in prison now for tax fraud. 3
SteveO Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, rockpond said: Everyone I have ever met that wants the church to disclose it finances has been a significant donor to the church. I dismiss the arguments of anyone who isn't a donor. So, while it is a good point it is really a rather obvious and pedestrian point. I assume then that you are withdrawing your criticisms of Dehlin since you are not a donor. Am I correct? Everyone you’ve ever met huh? Everyone I’ve ever met has either never paid or stopped paying. And no, I have about as much confidence in Dehlin’s good intentions as you do in Joseph Smith’s
rockpond Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, SteveO said: Everyone you’ve ever met huh? Everyone I’ve ever met has either never paid or stopped paying. And no, I have about as much confidence in Dehlin’s good intentions as you do in Joseph Smith’s I believe that Joseph Smith was guided throughout his life by his good intentions. He wasn't perfect but he was sincere, good, and honestly believed in what he was doing. While not a prophet, I believe similarly regarding Dehlin.
rockpond Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, clarkgoble said: Only after a rather large controversy in 2017 over finances. So saying "they have for many years" seems problematic. Incorrect. Finances are published back to 2011 which is, I believe, the year that they started accepting donations. https://www.openstoriesfoundation.org/finances/
juliann Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, the narrator said: I know one person who has been hired to write some of these. That person is academically trained and well qualified to write those they are doing (and I think would do a good job at it). Someone put up a blurb where he claimed the writer was doing it for free. 1
juliann Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, rockpond said: Incorrect. Finances are published back to 2011 which is, I believe, the year that they started accepting donations. https://www.openstoriesfoundation.org/finances/ You need to get current with the ruckus his lack of financial transparency created, causing a big turn over along with the charges of misogyny from his own staff. I don't keep track but if he ever satisfactorily addressed any of that, I haven't seen it discussed online. It is quite a skill to be a progressive, as he claimed to be, while alienating the Bloggernacle and mofems in one fell swoop. He is rarely even mentioned anymore. Added: The mofem community no longer holds back on the anti-feminist behavior and sexual harrassment from post/exmo men anymore than they do practicing Mormon men. Edited January 23, 2019 by juliann 1
rockpond Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, juliann said: You need to get current with the ruckus his lack of financial transparency created, causing a big turn over along with the charges of misogyny from his own staff. I don't keep track but if he ever satisfactorily addressed any of that, I haven't seen it discussed online. It is quite a skill to be a progressive, as he claimed to be, while alienating the Bloggernacle and mofems in one fell swoop. He is rarely even mentioned anymore. First, @clarkgoble claimed that OSF hadn't disclosed finances until AFTER a controversy in 2017. That is incorrect. As for the controversy, I have read about it and it wasn't caused by a lack of financial transparency. OSF finances were known and there was a dispute over certain management decisions. Edited January 23, 2019 by rockpond
Popular Post Kevin Christensen Posted January 23, 2019 Popular Post Posted January 23, 2019 Dehlin claims that people ought to have all of the information on the table before making a decision, and that he can be trusted to provide that. Until we are all omniscient, no one can provide all the information. What is really happening are attempts to control the narrative, to establish the paradigm, to pitch an ideology, discredit any opposition via the application of careful labeling and silences (he is notorious for censoring critics on his websites, and his role as interviewer allows him to control who gets asked what and in what emotional and social context) and claim the purest of motives, while making money in a job that feeds his ego. In the interest of putting a bit more information on the table regarding Dehlin, some uncontrolled narrative appears here: https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/ A while back, I noted here that he strikes me as rather Trump-like. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA 7
hope_for_things Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Kevin Christensen said: Dehlin claims that people ought to have all of the information on the table before making a decision, and that he can be trusted to provide that. Until we are all omniscient, no one can provide all the information. What is really happening are attempts to control the narrative, to establish the paradigm, to pitch an ideology, discredit any opposition via the application of careful labeling and silences (he is notorious for censoring critics on his websites, and his role as interviewer allows him to control who gets asked what and in what emotional and social context) and claim the purest of motives, while making money in a job that feeds his ego. A while back, I noted here that he strikes me as rather Trump-like. Every party is going to put forward their version of narrative that they believe is the most compelling. Institutions do this, individuals do this, historians do this, everyone does this. Some do it much better than others, include multiple viewpoints or argue dispassionately or try to provide different perspectives within their narrative. Ultimately, this is why its so important to be a consumer of multiple different perspectives and learning the tools of critical thinking and evaluation of sources. The goal for all of us should be to get as close to the truth as possible. I don't understand your comment about Trump-like behavior from Dehlin, can you elaborate on that specifically.
ALarson Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kevin Christensen said: Dehlin claims that people ought to have all of the information on the table before making a decision, and that he can be trusted to provide that. Until we are all omniscient, no one can provide all the information. What is really happening are attempts to control the narrative, to establish the paradigm, to pitch an ideology, discredit any opposition via the application of careful labeling and silences (he is notorious for censoring critics on his websites, and his role as interviewer allows him to control who gets asked what and in what emotional and social context) and claim the purest of motives, while making money in a job that feeds his ego. In the interest of putting a bit more information on the table regarding Dehlin, some uncontrolled narrative appears here: https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/ A while back, I noted here that he strikes me as rather Trump-like. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA Did you write this blog post or is it anonymous? Just curious as I can't tell who the author is.....
mfbukowski Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Kevin Christensen said: Dehlin claims that people ought to have all of the information on the table before making a decision, and that he can be trusted to provide that. Until we are all omniscient, no one can provide all the information. What is really happening are attempts to control the narrative, to establish the paradigm, to pitch an ideology, discredit any opposition via the application of careful labeling and silences (he is notorious for censoring critics on his websites, and his role as interviewer allows him to control who gets asked what and in what emotional and social context) and claim the purest of motives, while making money in a job that feeds his ego. In the interest of putting a bit more information on the table regarding Dehlin, some uncontrolled narrative appears here: https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/ A while back, I noted here that he strikes me as rather Trump-like. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA Jim and Tammy Baker revisited?
mfbukowski Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: Every party is going to put forward their version of narrative that they believe is the most compelling. Institutions do this, individuals do this, historians do this, everyone does this. Some do it much better than others, include multiple viewpoints or argue dispassionately or try to provide different perspectives within their narrative. ....The goal for all of us should be to get as close to the truth as possible. And who's "truth" would that be? Can't you see the contradiction here? This is the whole problem we have had communicating. You cling to that last sentence while asserting the first three. Contradiction.
Steve J Posted January 23, 2019 Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) I'm not going to comment on him as a person. But I think it's all quite apparent that he has started basically a church to employ himself that he has marketed as sort of a bizarro LDS church. He has started giving an annual State of the Union address on Mormonism as its exmormon leader, he has paid retreats, he is now producing alternative essays, his guests provide his audience a form of alternative testimonies(deconversion stories), other guests provide a MI like academic niche, he puts up advertisements on billboards, etc... He has recognized that former Mormons have an empty cult of personality and sense of belonging to fill after leaving the LDS faith, and he sees a market for that. As for his talents, the times that I have listened to him interview someone, I always just skip over his talking and listen to his guest who would usually be served better by having another interviewer Edited January 24, 2019 by Steve J 1
Recommended Posts