rockpond Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 Sam Young just posted his plan for the next action he will take: https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/2018/11/27/next-big-action/ He is planning to publish the Book of Stories that he previously delivered to Church headquarters. The link above will explain his reasons for doing so. I think this will be an interesting move as it will not only bring publicity to those stories but scrutiny as to their veracity. 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, rockpond said: I think this will be an interesting move as it will not only bring publicity to those stories but scrutiny as to their veracity. How exactly will it bring scrutiny to these anonymous stories?
rockpond Posted November 27, 2018 Author Posted November 27, 2018 19 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: How exactly will it bring scrutiny to these anonymous stories? It seems to me that the scrutiny would come naturally with the increased publicity. I see the publication in book form (as opposed to the current blog format) as an attempt to get more light on those stories. More media attention. As media attention increases, I see more people asking the questions that have been asked here about the veracity of the stories and reliability of the predominantly anonymous authors. Although, if the book is published and doesn’t get the added publicity, than the scrutiny won’t come either.
Calm Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 I want to know which one is Duncan's story (the one that used his name randomly, not his actual story). Wonder if it will get published under anonymous instead since I assume he never gave permission. http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71033-sam-young-is-excommunicated/?do=findComment&comment=1209866272 2
Calm Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, rockpond said: It seems to me that the scrutiny would come naturally with the increased publicity. I see the publication in book form (as opposed to the current blog format) as an attempt to get more light on those stories. More media attention. As media attention increases, I see more people asking the questions that have been asked here about the veracity of the stories and reliability of the predominantly anonymous authors. Although, if the book is published and doesn’t get the added publicity, than the scrutiny won’t come either. I think it is an attempt to get more credibility. A book is generally seen as less trivial than a blog. Self publishing is relatively easy though, so not terrible impressed especially since he appears not to have vetted it beyond getting permission. Edited November 27, 2018 by Calm 2
Duncan Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Calm said: I want to know which one is Duncan's story (the one that used his name randomly, not his actual story). Wonder if it will get published under anonymous instead since I assume he never gave permission. http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71033-sam-young-is-excommunicated/?do=findComment&comment=1209866272 That is what I am wondering!!!!!!!!! I never emailed him back and they haven't emailed me back either but still that doesn't mean I give permission, so at the very least with these stories I hope they get permission before publishing them Edited November 27, 2018 by Duncan
Hamba Tuhan Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, rockpond said: As media attention increases, I see more people asking the questions that have been asked here about the veracity of the stories and reliability of the predominantly anonymous authors. I don't share your faith. People will gobble up stuff that tells them their worst thoughts weren't wrong. 1
The Nehor Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 Just now, Hamba Tuhan said: I don't share your faith. People will gobble up stuff that tells them their worst thoughts weren't wrong. On the bright side I expect the book to be poorly written and poorly received. 3
Calm Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, The Nehor said: On the bright side I expect the book to be poorly written and poorly received. Unless they plan on rewriting many of the stories, writing may be poor. And if he includes the more extreme which repeat the Satanic Panic material, that could be problematic for professional credibility. If names of accused are included and they have not been convicted, could he be sued for defamation? Edited November 27, 2018 by Calm 2
Calm Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I don't share your faith. People will gobble up stuff that tells them their worst thoughts weren't wrong. Hopefully at least some reporters will ask, though if told about the lack of verification I suspect most will lose interest and that info won't get published. After all, most of the stories will have been out in the public view for quite sometime now. Edited November 27, 2018 by Calm
The Nehor Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Calm said: Unless they plan on rewriting many of the stories, writing may be poor. And if he includes the more extreme which repeat the Satanic Panic material, that could be problematic for professional credibility. If names of accused are included and they have not been convicted, could he be sued for defamation? Probably not. That would require proving the story false. Since these all happened at interviews and the content is confidential it would be difficult to prove the story false. It might work if they can show that the interview never happened which might be possible if the stories are dated but I doubt this book will bother with real specifics.
Hamba Tuhan Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, The Nehor said: On the bright side I expect the book to be poorly written and poorly received. I suspect one of those two is a given.
Robert F. Smith Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: How exactly will it bring scrutiny to these anonymous stories? There is always a danger in publishing a book which can be subjected to close examination. Sam Young is likely oblivious to the risk.
Avatar4321 Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I don't share your faith. People will gobble up stuff that tells them their worst thoughts weren't wrong. I suspect that's the point 1
smac97 Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, rockpond said: Sam Young just posted his plan for the next action he will take: https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/2018/11/27/next-big-action/ He is planning to publish the Book of Stories that he previously delivered to Church headquarters. The link above will explain his reasons for doing so. I think this will be an interesting move as it will not only bring publicity to those stories but scrutiny as to their veracity. I read the linked post above. Oi. He's raving. Lots of exclamation marks, and ALL CAPS, and bold and italicized stuff, and hyperbolic rhetoric. A sampling: Quote With their most recent excommunication antics, the Mormon Church has decided NOT to protect their children. However, the Church HAS chosen to protect what they view as more important: ... The Mormon right to expose children to physical sexual abuse. Furthermore, they have NO right to employ sexual interrogations. ... IT…IS…CRIMINAL!!! The Church used it’s biggest hammer to pound me into silence. I will not be silent. TOGETHER, A PRIDE OF LIONS IS GOING TO ROAR!!! This sort of overwrought stuff is offputting. I think he estranges more than he persuades with these sorts of histrionics. As for the book, a compilation of anonymous and uncurated/unvetted stories will not, I think, be persuasive. This isn't evidence. It's gossip. I also think he's sort of painted himself into a corner with the "Satanic Panic" stuff. If he includes such stories, he will likely discredit the entirety of the project (to the extent the project had any credibility to begin with). And if he omits such stories, he can be credibly accused of "hiding" such things. And if he presents a defense along the lines of "I kept those stories out because I did not find them credible," then he opens up all the other anonymously-sourced stories to similar skepticism. And since he has made his name accusing others of hiding stuff, he can also be accused of rank hypocrisy (and justifiably so). And if these stories "name names," he's opening himself up to libel claims. The phrase "hoisted by his own petard" comes to mind. Like Jeremy Runnells, Sam Young seems to be a one-trick pony. They each had the One Thing that gave them notoriety. Runnells tried to wring out every bit of attention he could get from it, and now Sam Young is doing the same. Sam Young is just pandering now. Ratcheting up the shrill rhetoric is the only way he can keep the attention he apparently so desperately craves. I'd like to think that he is genuinely concerned about the welfare of children in the Church. But I don't. Here was my assessment back in August (during his hunger strike): Quote Quote Ever read the stories? http://protectldschildren.org/read-the-stories-2/ I understand the emotions that can be stirred up when reading those stories. But a few thoughts: First, those stories are almost entirely anecdotal, unvetted, unsubstantiated, totally one-sided, and from anonymous sources. We aren't in a court of law, but unfetterd and credulous acceptance of these narratives is not really the best way to go. Second, the fact that Sam Young seems to rely almost completely on these narratives, to the exclusion of any competent evidence, reasoned analysis, etc., rather strongly speaks against the merits and reasonableness of his demands, or at least makes me very cautious about them. Mr. Young isn't looking to persuade others to his position through reasoning and evidence. He is instead looking to whip people up into a frenzy of alarm, anger, resentments, and high emotion. He's creating a mob mentality. An hysteria. Third, Mr. Young's selective outrage is really disconcerting. Why is he targeting bishops interviews? Doesn't that seem way down on the list of things we could do to reduce sexual abuse of children? As I recall, Mr. Young started all of this because a bishop purportedly asked his daughter some inappropriate questions. Is that all this is, then? Mr. Young's personal resentments against one bishop's misconduct blown up into a full-blown moral panic? How else do we account for his utter disregard of the many other, and far more dangerous, factors that lead to sexual abuse of children? Fourth, Mr. Young's self-aggrandizement is really a concern to me. This issue seems to be all about him. He's always front and center. Talking to the media. At the literal center of the marches and protests. And now he's in the middle of a hunger strike, and claiming that Jesus will descend and sit in a chair next to him. Is this really all about concern for the welfare of children? Or did it start out that way, but then morph into a massive ego trip for Sam Young? I think this still holds true. He's still relying on anecdotal, unvetted, unsubstantiated, totally one-sided, anonymously-sourced stories, and not on any competent evidence or reasoned analysis. He's still trying to stir up a moral panic. He's still big into the self-aggrandizement thing. It's still all about him. I hope he calms down and gains a sense of proportion and perspective. I hope he has a change of heart. Thanks, -Smac Edited November 27, 2018 by smac97 3
hope_for_things Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 8 hours ago, rockpond said: Sam Young just posted his plan for the next action he will take: https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/2018/11/27/next-big-action/ He is planning to publish the Book of Stories that he previously delivered to Church headquarters. The link above will explain his reasons for doing so. I think this will be an interesting move as it will not only bring publicity to those stories but scrutiny as to their veracity. Thanks for sharing. Its an interesting tactic, I wonder how successful publication of these stories will be. Have they been available online all this time, and is this just making a print version available? I don't know.
rockpond Posted November 27, 2018 Author Posted November 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: Thanks for sharing. Its an interesting tactic, I wonder how successful publication of these stories will be. Have they been available online all this time, and is this just making a print version available? I don't know. Yes, I believe the stories are currently available on his blog.
hope_for_things Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, rockpond said: Yes, I believe the stories are currently available on his blog. Hmm.. then I wonder how putting them into print will accomplish his goal of creating a national conversation on this topic. If they are already available online, wouldn't that conversation be happening already? I guess I'm just not confident that publishing these stories in a print format is going to accomplish what he's hoping it will.
rockpond Posted November 27, 2018 Author Posted November 27, 2018 58 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: Hmm.. then I wonder how putting them into print will accomplish his goal of creating a national conversation on this topic. If they are already available online, wouldn't that conversation be happening already? I guess I'm just not confident that publishing these stories in a print format is going to accomplish what he's hoping it will. I think the idea is that a formal publishing will garner more attention and media attention than a blog. But, I’m not confident that it will either. 1
Maidservant Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 10 hours ago, The Nehor said: This is the last straw. I am now thoroughly in love with you. Ha ha ha ha. 😜
RevTestament Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 11 hours ago, Calm said: Unless they plan on rewriting many of the stories, writing may be poor. And if he includes the more extreme which repeat the Satanic Panic material, that could be problematic for professional credibility. If names of accused are included and they have not been convicted, could he be sued for defamation? 10 hours ago, The Nehor said: Probably not. That would require proving the story false. Since these all happened at interviews and the content is confidential it would be difficult to prove the story false. It might work if they can show that the interview never happened which might be possible if the stories are dated but I doubt this book will bother with real specifics. This in itself gives the book little credibility. He might as well be publishing a book of fictional stories. If those involved in the story come forward and claim the story is false, then yes, I believe he could be sued for defamation. It's a risk he will have to take it appears. His option is to then say that he based the stories in the book on anonymous stories, but that is saying he fictionalized them, destroying their veracity/credibility. However, proving damages in an anonymous situation may prove difficult.
The Nehor Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Maidservant said: This is the last straw. I am now thoroughly in love with you. Ha ha ha ha. 😜 I aim to please. 1
Calm Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 5 hours ago, hope_for_things said: Have they been available online all this time, and is this just making a print version available? He is asking for people to submit more so there might be new ones, but otherwise it looks like the ones that have been posted already.
rodheadlee Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 16 hours ago, rockpond said: Sam Young just posted his plan for the next action he will take: https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/2018/11/27/next-big-action/ He is planning to publish the Book of Stories that he previously delivered to Church headquarters. The link above will explain his reasons for doing so. I think this will be an interesting move as it will not only bring publicity to those stories but scrutiny as to their veracity. I'm sorry i can't get past the first paragraph.Next Big Act is more like it. 1
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