Duncan Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Will this revolution be televised? um, it might be but i'm trying to get the Royal Rumble '89💪 on Pay Per View so i'll have to watch it later
SouthernMo Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 28 minutes ago, provoman said: Is it 1017 1018 podcast do you have a rough idea of the time stamp? I listened to what someone inducated was the time stamp, but could not find it? Just wanted to listen to it myself as it seems it might be misreported....I cant stand podcasts so I am unwilling to listen to a whole podcast. I'm sorry - I don't recall what the timestamp is for when he addresses that. But yes - that is the right podcast. But, I do recall that when John Dehlin asked Bill if he would be willing to take down some of his content if it meant that he would not be excommunicated, his response was that he'd consider it. There was no definitive response. 1
sunstoned Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 20 hours ago, smac97 said: Council, not counsel. I am aware of the differences. It was a play on words. To put it more directly. The decision of the court of love has already been decided. The whole meeting is a sham. Bill called Holland out for the untruths that he stated. Some of them like the hells angel and the missionary story could be attributed to poor vetting. But telling a group of young adults that the church is creating 10 to 12 states a week is a verifiable out and out lie. Bill provided data to back all of this up. He is being exed for telling the truth. The truth that casts a bad light on a GA.
Duncan Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 Just now, sunstoned said: I am aware of the differences. It was a play on words. To put it more directly. The decision of the court of love has already been decided. The whole meeting is a sham. Bill called Holland out for the untruths that he stated. Some of them like the hells angel and the missionary story could be attributed to poor vetting. But telling a group of young adults that the church is creating 10 to 12 states a week is a verifiable out and out lie. Bill provided data to back all of this up. He is being exed for telling the truth. The truth that casts a bad light on a GA. Didn't Bill Reel read the apology from Elder Holland about the missionary story?
The Nehor Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, sunstoned said: I am aware of the differences. It was a play on words. To put it more directly. The decision of the court of love has already been decided. The whole meeting is a sham. Bill called Holland out for the untruths that he stated. Some of them like the hells angel and the missionary story could be attributed to poor vetting. But telling a group of young adults that the church is creating 10 to 12 states a week is a verifiable out and out lie. Bill provided data to back all of this up. He is being exed for telling the truth. The truth that casts a bad light on a GA. Think of how many people will leave when they find out we are creating fewer stakes then that......truly a great martyr to a noble cause. 1
Duncan Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Think of how many people will leave when they find out we are creating fewer stakes then that......truly a great martyr to a noble cause. and Bill got in a hizzlesnit over Elder Holland holding up the wrong copy of the Book of Mormon "Elder Holland claims to hold the very copy of the book of Mormon that Bethsheba, Hyrum Smith’s wife, had in her possession from which Hyrum Smith the prophets brother read to her and had turned the corner of the page down from where he read. The problem is that the copy Elder Holland holds up in his hand at General conference is distinctly different from the copy in the Church History department claimed to be the same book." the horror I doubt Bill Reel even knows but Hyrum never even had a wife named, Bethsheba😲 There was a Bathsheba Smith, but she wasn't ever married to Hyrum Smith but to his cousin George A. Smith, Apostle and First Presidency member Edited November 28, 2018 by Duncan
smac97 Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, sunstoned said: I am aware of the differences. It was a play on words. It doesn't work well. Disciplinary councils are not intended to be "counseling" sessions. 13 minutes ago, sunstoned said: To put it more directly. The decision of the court of love has already been decided. "Court of love?" The seventies called. They want their terminology back. 😀 13 minutes ago, sunstoned said: The whole meeting is a sham. Huh? What does that mean? 13 minutes ago, sunstoned said: Bill called Holland out for the untruths that he stated. Some of them like the hells angel and the missionary story could be attributed to poor vetting. But telling a group of young adults that the church is creating 10 to 12 states a week is a verifiable out and out lie. Bill provided data to back all of this up. He is being exed for telling the truth. The truth that casts a bad light on a GA. I think there's more to it than that. A lot more, actually. Thanks, -Smac 3
Hamba Tuhan Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Think of how many people will leave when they find out we are creating fewer stakes then that... But of course no one was supposed to find out because the Church does everything it can to hide the number of stakes it creates ... by publishing it in the Church News and putting it online in conjunction with General Conference. 1
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted November 28, 2018 Popular Post Posted November 28, 2018 31 minutes ago, Duncan said: and Bill got in a hizzlesnit over Elder Holland holding up the wrong copy of the Book of Mormon "Elder Holland claims to hold the very copy of the book of Mormon that Bethsheba, Hyrum Smith’s wife, had in her possession from which Hyrum Smith the prophets brother read to her and had turned the corner of the page down from where he read. The problem is that the copy Elder Holland holds up in his hand at General conference is distinctly different from the copy in the Church History department claimed to be the same book." the horror I doubt Bill Reel even knows but Hyrum never even had a wife named, Bethsheba😲 There was a Bathsheba Smith, but she wasn't ever married to Hyrum Smith but to his cousin George A. Smith, Apostle and First Presidency member Bill wasn’t even correct on that one. The Church History Department has two similar copies with the same page dog-eared. But as was pointed out in a subsequent clarification, Elder Holland was indeed holding up the right book. 5
Scott Lloyd Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 51 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Soooooo.....how did it go? Was it tonight?
rockpond Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) Del Edited November 28, 2018 by rockpond Incorrect info
Duncan Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 1 minute ago, rockpond said: Not surprisingly, Bill was excommunicated and he is planning to appeal to the FP. where did you hear that?
rockpond Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) I apologize. I was wrong in my previous post (now deleted). The decision of the disciplinary council will be sent to Bill in a few days. I’m sorry, I was listening to his live FB feed after he came out of the DC and when he said that he would appeal to the FP, I assumed that he had been excommunicated already. That’s not the case, he just is anticipating that outcome. Edited November 28, 2018 by rockpond 1
sunstoned Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, smac97 said: It doesn't work well. Disciplinary councils are not intended to be "counseling" sessions. "Court of love?" The seventies called. They want their terminology back. 😀 Huh? What does that mean? I think there's more to it than that. A lot more, actually. Thanks, -Smac nice (overly wordy) dodge. The point is that Holland lied and was called out for it.
sunstoned Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: Think of how many people will leave when they find out we are creating fewer stakes then that......truly a great martyr to a noble cause. I think it is the that an apostle has a problem with telling that truth that has some people concerned
Duncan Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 Just now, sunstoned said: nice (overly wordy) dodge. The point is that Holland lied and was called out for it. I'm calling out Bill for lying about "bethsheba" will he apologize for that? 3
smac97 Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 On 11/21/2018 at 9:15 AM, Analytics said: I don't know much about Bill Reel, but I just finished listening to the podcast where consiglieri interviewed him on Radio Free Mormonism two days ago. What is clear is that Bill Reel is not a "big list" kind of guy. Just saw this, in which he provides yet another "Big List": Quote Treasure Digging First Vision Book of Mormon Translation Book Of Mormon Book of Abraham Book of Moses JST Kinderhook Plates Polygamy MP Restoration Race and Priesthood Lamanite DNA Handicapped Kids Prophets Elevation Emotion Healthiness LGBT Patriarchy Children and sex abuse Doubts and Questions Dishonesty He ticks pretty much every box. And nary a stitch of interaction with responses to these issues. Looks like he is a "Big List" kind of person after all. Thanks, -Smac 1
sunstoned Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Duncan said: Didn't Bill Reel read the apology from Elder Holland about the missionary story? Yes he did. Nothing about the 12 new states a week whopper though.
smac97 Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, sunstoned said: nice (overly wordy) dodge. The point is that Holland lied and was called out for it. Again, I think there's more to it than that. A lot more, actually. Thanks, -Smac 2
smac97 Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 Just now, sunstoned said: Yes he did. Nothing about the 12 new states a week whopper though. I thought Barack Obama was the one who was into inventing states. 😀 Thanks, -Smac
Duncan Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, sunstoned said: Yes he did. Nothing about the 12 new states a week whopper though. so why does he keep parroting it then? as of last month even Bill said, "3.) Elder Holland tells a faith promoting story about a missionary who out on his mission is led by the spirit to his older brother who had severed his relationship with his family years earlier. Elder Holland had told this story for years and other General Authorities before him had shared it. The problem is the story was a false faith promoting narrative. Each telling contained different contradicting details and too far fetched too believe of a story-line. Soon after the Deseret News picked up on the story, the far fetched details began to be questioned by critical thinking Mormons and Elder Holland through the Deseret News and Church PR quickly distanced himself from the story. But even his side of how he came to learn the story was inaccurate is problematic." Bill Reel lied about the time duration, "for years"???? Elder Holland shared it last year and retracted it last year, not exactly years here https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865685840/Elder-Holland-withdraws-Church-News-missionary-story.html Only Bill seems to know what is "inaccurate" about how Elder Holland apologized for telling this story Edited November 28, 2018 by Duncan
lostindc Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 What are the reasons for excommunicating Bill?
flameburns623 Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, lostindc said: What are the reasons for excommunicating Bill? He is not "just" asking questions, but doing so in a very publicly accusatory manner. And: his current articulation of his beliefs, so far as he makes those public, are such that he really DOESN'T believe what LDS members believe, even in a nuanced, thoughtful way. If this were his own private wrestling with God, perhaps communicated to close family and friends, I don't know if he would be subjected to discipline. But he is very public, therefore actively advocating for apostasy. He is confronting a Disciplinary Council for apostasy, based on whatever has been presented tonight at the DC. He is on record for quite a lot which could reasonably be construed as such. 4
lostindc Posted November 28, 2018 Posted November 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, flameburns623 said: He is not "just" asking questions, but doing so in a very publicly accusatory manner. And: his current articulation of his beliefs, so far as he makes those public, are such that he really DOESN'T believe what LDS members believe, even in a nuanced, thoughtful way. If this were his own private wrestling with God, perhaps communicated to close family and friends, I don't know if he would be subjected to discipline. But he is very public, therefore actively advocating for apostasy. He is confronting a Disciplinary Council for apostasy, based on whatever has been presented tonight at the DC. He is on record for quite a lot which could reasonably be construed as such. So Church leadership isn't happy with his tone? If he asked his questions publicly, in a polite manner, would he face excommunication? If the Church is true, does it matter if Bill Reel questions the truth claims, regardless of tone? Do you know of any specific events that caused the Church to want to excommunicate Bill besides Bill openly questions and accuses leaders?
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