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Thoughts on emerging adulthood and marriage.


poptart

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Thought i'd ask this here since many of you are middle class (I think?) and religious, what are your thoughts on emerging adulthood and marriage?  We all know many people put it off later and later and in many cases now put it off permanently for whatever reason.  From what i've seen the LDS as well as some branches of Christianity aren't too thrilled with this despite the fact that it is a lot more difficult to start a family and household this day and age.  Saw this in class and could not help but think of many of you, esp. considering the LDS faith is notorious for that phrase If you're 25 years old and unmarried, you're a menace to society.  Had that discussion with other Mormons and yeah, it's like they just gloss over the fact that many are too poor to do what they did, they don't care and if they attempt it and fail, well not their problem heavenly father favored them over the looser kid.  No offense to anyone over this, just what I ran into in WA.  Know not everyone is like that but still, the LDS faith does emphasize having a family regardless of the risks involved and the chance that if it fails the damage it will cause the children.  Thoughts?  Thanks!

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

That's sounds like one of those things that people say that really doesn't mean anything. 

That's a direct quote from Brigham Young isn't it?  That's what I was told anyway.  I sure noticed the pressure for men to marry at the ward I'd visit, was kinda creepy.

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14 minutes ago, poptart said:

 considering the LDS faith is notorious for that phrase If you're 25 years old and unmarried, you're a menace to society.  

FYI: the evidence that Brigham Young ever actually said that is pretty darn thin.

14 minutes ago, poptart said:

Thought i'd ask this here since many of you are middle class (I think?) and religious, what are your thoughts on emerging adulthood and marriage?  We all know many people put it off later and later and in many cases now put it off permanently for whatever reason.  From what i've seen the LDS as well as some branches of Christianity aren't too thrilled with this despite the fact that it is a lot more difficult to start a family and household this day and age.  Saw this in class and could not help but think of many of you, esp. considering the LDS faith is notorious for that phrase If you're 25 years old and unmarried, you're a menace to society.  Had that discussion with other Mormons and yeah, it's like they just gloss over the fact that many are too poor to do what they did, they don't care and if they attempt it and fail, well not their problem heavenly father favored them over the looser kid.  No offense to anyone over this, just what I ran into in WA.  Know not everyone is like that but still, the LDS faith does emphasize having a family regardless of the risks involved and the chance that if it fails the damage it will cause the children.  Thoughts?  Thanks!

(Background here: I'm in my 30's.  I work/attend at a college campus, and hence regularly mentor/interact with people from the age of 15-35).

Many people in that age bracket like to pretend they are Peter Pan-- never going to grow up.  But we have to- time doesn't stop for anyone.  And if you're ever remotely interested in ever having a family, there is a limited window.   So I'll address a couple of different areas a lot (but far from all) young people fail at--

Socially: you got to do this.  Pocket your smart phone, grow up, and learn how to have meaningful social interactions/bonds with real life people.  Learn how to communicate, deal with conflict, be dependable, etc.  

Emotionally: you got to do this to. Get out, get experience, learn, grow.  

Self-Management (stuff like cooking, laundry, cleaning up, managing a budget, etc): Learn it.  

Education: I work at a college-- yes, education is very important.  Do it.  But having a college degree is not a prerequisite to getting married-- ditch that myth.

Finances: Here's some things that aren't required to get married: a house, a car, a fancy job, fancy clothes, a big bank account, and the million toys in the world commercials tell you you "need".  What is needed: money sense and budgeting.  Learning how to focus on true necessities and live humbly.  

 

It is totally ok to be happily married and working on building your future together: the future material things, education, family, etc.  

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16 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

FYI: the evidence that Brigham Young ever actually said that is pretty darn thin.

(Background here: I'm in my 30's.  I work/attend at a college campus, and hence regularly mentor/interact with people from the age of 15-35).

Many people in that age bracket like to pretend they are Peter Pan-- never going to grow up.  But we have to- time doesn't stop for anyone.  And if you're ever remotely interested in ever having a family, there is a limited window.   So I'll address a couple of different areas a lot (but far from all) young people fail at--

Socially: you got to do this.  Pocket your smart phone, grow up, and learn how to have meaningful social interactions/bonds with real life people.  Learn how to communicate, deal with conflict, be dependable, etc.  

Emotionally: you got to do this to. Get out, get experience, learn, grow.  

Self-Management (stuff like cooking, laundry, cleaning up, managing a budget, etc): Learn it.  

Education: I work at a college-- yes, education is very important.  Do it.  But having a college degree is not a prerequisite to getting married-- ditch that myth.

Finances: Here's some things that aren't required to get married: a house, a car, a fancy job, fancy clothes, a big bank account, and the million toys in the world commercials tell you you "need".  What is needed: money sense and budgeting.  Learning how to focus on true necessities and live humbly.  

 

It is totally ok to be happily married and working on building your future together: the future material things, education, family, etc.  

Finally a down to earth answer, why could a mormon never give it to me, thank you.  I'd think you know this since you're probably around a lot of secular people, religious arguments don't work, what you just said however, does, I mean it really does.  Wow..

I saw that in Washington a lot too, part of it is how people are.  Many people grew up like I did in a very violent home, no one cared.  As adults we've watched a lot of our friends here get torn apart by the court system, WA is especially cruel, I mean CA tier cruel.  That and well, I'd be too busy fighting over the cute hello kitty apron, I like pink, it's cute.

I'm going to have some fun here, bear with me.

Socially : I have my own inner circle.  I'm super fickle who I hang out with, mostly because I don't want to be digitally lynched. 

Emotionally: I'd need a ton of therapy, I mean a lot and that's hard to get, has been for me anyway.  That and people as a rule do not care about your problems. 

Self-Managment: Fine, it's having to do someone elses job that I refuse to do and well, that seems to be expected from many people nowadays.

Education:  I disagree there, my RN prereqs are brutal, even if I liked kids there'd be no way I could do it. 

Finances:  Biggie for me, so many people are spend thrifts.  Like my grandfathers expression, champange appetite on a beer budget. 

Marriage is such a gamble because so many people are messed up, that and the resources to cope with mental illness are dying up.  The mormon I know does a lot of work with disadvantaged people, the resources that were available are just not there anymore, people just don't want to pay out what they used too.  That's been his experience anyway.  As someone who was on the receiving end, yeah I can say that was what I ran into, die on the street we don't care.

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I don't think college degree needs to stop most people from marrying, but they should seriously consider timing of kids.  I am very grateful I only had two classes left to graduate when I had my kid, but it took me five years to be able to do those even when one was independent study.  And because of my health and my daughter's I have not been able to go back to school even though it is free for me now ( perk of having a professor husband).  It would have been a huge blow to my self esteem not to have that degree, I know not every woman or man for that matter feels that way, but I think those who do need to take the possibility of children interfering with finishing---perhaps even forever---into account.

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, Calm said:

I don't think college degree needs to stop most people from marrying, but they should seriously consider timing of kids.  I am very grateful I only had two classes left to graduate when I had my kid, but it took me five years to be able to do those even when one was independent study.  And because of my health and my daughter's I have not been able to go back to school even though it is free for me now ( perk of having a professor husband).  It would have been a huge blow to my self esteem not to have that degree, I know not every woman or man for that matter, feels that way, but I think those who do need to take the possibility of children interfering with finishing---perhaps even forever---into account.

That's reasonable.

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7 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

FYI: the evidence that Brigham Young ever actually said that is pretty darn thin.

(Background here: I'm in my 30's.  I work/attend at a college campus, and hence regularly mentor/interact with people from the age of 15-35).

Many people in that age bracket like to pretend they are Peter Pan-- never going to grow up.  But we have to- time doesn't stop for anyone.  And if you're ever remotely interested in ever having a family, there is a limited window.   So I'll address a couple of different areas a lot (but far from all) young people fail at--

Socially: you got to do this.  Pocket your smart phone, grow up, and learn how to have meaningful social interactions/bonds with real life people.  Learn how to communicate, deal with conflict, be dependable, etc.  

Emotionally: you got to do this to. Get out, get experience, learn, grow.  

Self-Management (stuff like cooking, laundry, cleaning up, managing a budget, etc): Learn it.  

Education: I work at a college-- yes, education is very important.  Do it.  But having a college degree is not a prerequisite to getting married-- ditch that myth.

Finances: Here's some things that aren't required to get married: a house, a car, a fancy job, fancy clothes, a big bank account, and the million toys in the world commercials tell you you "need".  What is needed: money sense and budgeting.  Learning how to focus on true necessities and live humbly.  

 

It is totally ok to be happily married and working on building your future together: the future material things, education, family, etc.  

Such wise advice Jane Doe! And oftentimes married couples look back on those struggling years as the best of times. My husband and I struggled somewhat and I look back with fond memories.

Sadly, there is a weird thing going on with men, or maybe just my sons right now. Or they're listening to videos that mention it. But these men seem to want a wife who stays at home and takes care of the family now and they want to turn back time. I don't mind this a bit, but not every woman wants that. Maybe some women just aren't interested in marriage or go onto having careers and no desire for men and that has been difficult for them knowing that some women don't really need men. And one of my sons mentioned how the women's movement is not a good thing.

About a month or so ago my youngest son, he's 21, even let it slip that men are more superior. He has been listening to some dude and I don't know his name, but I heard my son listening to a video and I think this man was trying to say that men should go out and get all this money and just have a bunch of girlfriends or something.

I was so sick to my stomach that my youngest has this line of thinking. I think he is just insecure and women can be intimidating, I don't know. I sure hope not and hope he comes around soon. I'm definitely worried for him and his future girlfriend/wife/whoever. I just don't think it's respectful how his thinking is. And I even googled which sex is more superior, and showed him it's women, but I don't believe that really, I think it's just human beings that we should concentrate on, not some kind of competition between the sexes.

Edited by Tacenda
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9 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Such wise advice Jane Doe! And oftentimes married couples look back on those struggling years as the best of times. My husband and I struggled somewhat and I look back with fond memories.

Totally!!! 

9 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Sadly, there is a weird thing going on with men, or maybe just my sons right now. Or they're listening to podcasts that mention it. But men seem to want the housewife now and want to turn back time. Maybe women just aren't interested in marriage or go onto having careers and no desire for men or something and that has been difficult for them knowing that women don't really need men, but they just have to find the right one and be deserving of them.

Having a career is not incompatible with being married.  

A lot of people... can be quite silly about dating (or refusing to do thus).  

9 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

About a month or so ago my youngest son, he's 21, even let it slip that men are more superior. He has been listening to some dude and I don't know his name, but I heard my son listening to a podcast, and I think this man was trying to say that men should go out and get all this money and just have a bunch of girlfriends or something.

I was so sick to my stomach that my youngest has this line of thinking. I think he is just insecure and women can be intimidating, I don't know. I sure hope not and hope he comes around soon. I'm definitely worried for him and his future girlfriend/wife/whoever. I just don't think it's respectful how his thinking is. And I even googled which sex is more superior, and showed him it's women, but I don't believe that really, I think it's just human beings that we should concentrate on, not some kind of competition between the sexes.

I hope you can reach your son.

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8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Such wise advice Jane Doe! And oftentimes married couples look back on those struggling years as the best of times. My husband and I struggled somewhat and I look back with fond memories.

Sadly, there is a weird thing going on with men, or maybe just my sons right now. Or they're listening to videos that mention it. But these men seem to want a wife who stays at home and takes care of the family now and they want to turn back time. I don't mind this a bit, but not every woman wants that. Maybe some women just aren't interested in marriage or go onto having careers and no desire for men and that has been difficult for them knowing that some women don't really need men. And one of my sons mentioned how the women's movement is not a good thing.

About a month or so ago my youngest son, he's 21, even let it slip that men are more superior. He has been listening to some dude and I don't know his name, but I heard my son listening to a video and I think this man was trying to say that men should go out and get all this money and just have a bunch of girlfriends or something.

I was so sick to my stomach that my youngest has this line of thinking. I think he is just insecure and women can be intimidating, I don't know. I sure hope not and hope he comes around soon. I'm definitely worried for him and his future girlfriend/wife/whoever. I just don't think it's respectful how his thinking is. And I even googled which sex is more superior, and showed him it's women, but I don't believe that really, I think it's just human beings that we should concentrate on, not some kind of competition between the sexes.

I don't blame men for being paranoid, after seeing a few of my friends get ruined from their ex's in WA state courts it just cemented my opinion.  One of the ex's had 3 daughters from different husbands and while she got drunken mess #2 to adopt them, he's a deadbead and in jail and under WA law my friend may be on the hook for child support for kids that aren't his.  Here's the catch, I blame him mostly for being an idiot, hint hint if someone has 3 daughters from different men and still claims to be super religious, oh and has the nerve to be racist as can be, well she (or he) is probably a rotten human being.  He did dodge a bullet, my prediction about the oldest following in the mothers footsteps came true, not even a year out of HS and pregnant with some slimeballs kid.

That being said, wow i've noticed that a bit with older men too.  It's nothing new, men have been going to brothels forever, i'd be worried about one of the girlfriends getting jealous and making bogus rape allegations or trying to swindle me, if you base a relationship solely around money don't be suprised when sooner or later they try to extort you.  That does suprise me about men, considering how many of us grew up in bad homes i'd have thought they would know better, you act and treat anyone like an object it's going to backfire big time.  We've already had a few generations of people ruined by no fault divorce and vicious family courts, I'd have thought men would be a bit smarter, reform the system.  What bothers me about men who act that way is they forget, once you set a societal pattern you can't just wish it away when it's inconvenient, it's like trying to raise someone like St. Francis from the dead, as much as many would like it good luck.  Look at how children are viewed now, as a rule no one cares about them because as a society we chose to toss family values out the window in favor of personal gain, now many people, even those in nice neiborhoods are afraid to let their kids out. 

I'd ask him this, how do you think he'd feel if he had a son and he acted that way in church, or better yet if he had a daughter and the men she had to go to school with treated her that way.  Then, i'd remind him that there are probably millions of men out there now who think just like he does, and if he does have a daughter someday that's the world they'll have to raise her in.  Actions have consequences.  Also geez what entitlement, if it was me I'd remind him it was you and other good moral women who enabled him to make it to the age of 21 and have what he does.  Stuff like this reminds me why I have no tolerance for entitled brats here.

Edited by poptart
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8 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Totally!!! 

Having a career is not incompatible with being married.  

A lot of people... can be quite silly about dating (or refusing to do thus).  

I hope you can reach your son.

Yet, many people come home to a cheating spouse and paternity fraud, seen/heard about it from military friends, seen more than a few claims in my insurance days complete with divorce decrees, parenting plans and the ocasional restraining order. 

Not disagreeing with you, just saying many times career and marriage does not work out, sometimes very badly.    People are fickle, it is what it is.

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37 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Makes hook ups easier but long term relationships harder.

You would be suprised.  Some of the LGBT couples i've met were some of the most stable.  Not advocating one over the other, but not having to worry about child rearing plus the financial benefits marriage brings are a big help.  Will say, the wealthiest couples i've known stateside were LGBT, the only other ones were usually Asian or had an Asian spouse. 

Edited by poptart
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I watched the video.  I would say getting committed to family life in the mid twenties age range would be a LOT better than doing it in the mid thirties or later.  Having children sooner enables families to become stronger with inter-knitting between generations with grandparents being around to share wisdom and having more energy for serving one another.  Also, the longer people wait, the greater chances of infertility and greater expenses for adoption.

This "emerging adulthood" stage would make it more likely for people to lose interest altogether for establishing families and cause ever increasing cynicism among the population.  This will lead to "men's hearts running cold" and ever greater depravity and shocking violence.  Thus "hastening the work of Satan" leading up to the 2nd Coming.

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12 hours ago, longview said:

I watched the video.  I would say getting committed to family life in the mid twenties age range would be a LOT better than doing it in the mid thirties or later.  Having children sooner enables families to become stronger with inter-knitting between generations with grandparents being around to share wisdom and having more energy for serving one another.  Also, the longer people wait, the greater chances of infertility and greater expenses for adoption.

This "emerging adulthood" stage would make it more likely for people to lose interest altogether for establishing families and cause ever increasing cynicism among the population.  This will lead to "men's hearts running cold" and ever greater depravity and shocking violence.  Thus "hastening the work of Satan" leading up to the 2nd Coming.

I will try not become too depraved or attack anyone but.....no promises.

12 hours ago, poptart said:

You would be suprised.  Some of the LGBT couples i've met were some of the most stable.  Not advocating one over the other, but not having to worry about child rearing plus the financial benefits marriage brings are a big help.  Will say, the wealthiest couples i've known stateside were LGBT, the only other ones were usually Asian or had an Asian spouse. 

Well, I will keep homosexuality as an option if nothing else seems to work out.

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3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Pretty sure that is a “parents arrange it” thing.

OK then go to Korea and get one arranged by Unification Church . . .

220px-SunMyungMoonBlessing.jpg    Rev and Mrs Moon preside over a mass blessing ceremony

Edited by longview
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On 11/13/2018 at 11:00 PM, poptart said:

... considering the LDS faith is notorious for that phrase If you're 25 years old and unmarried, you're a menace to society.  

You've not heard this outside of the LDS context? Perhaps that's not what you're saying, but this is the first time I've heard it attributed to the LDS. I am more familiar with it from non-LDS sources. The sci fi author Robert Heinlein (decidedly not LDS) expressed it occasionally in his novels, though not always in those words.

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On 11/14/2018 at 11:00 AM, longview said:

I watched the video.  I would say getting committed to family life in the mid twenties age range would be a LOT better than doing it in the mid thirties or later.  Having children sooner enables families to become stronger with inter-knitting between generations with grandparents being around to share wisdom and having more energy for serving one another.  Also, the longer people wait, the greater chances of infertility and greater expenses for adoption.

This "emerging adulthood" stage would make it more likely for people to lose interest altogether for establishing families and cause ever increasing cynicism among the population.  This will lead to "men's hearts running cold" and ever greater depravity and shocking violence.  Thus "hastening the work of Satan" leading up to the 2nd Coming.

I'd agree to a point, I've had a pretty bad family life and i'm not willing to take a gamble on it, esp. when I look at how things are here nowadays.  Also, kids are kinda ick, to me anyway.

On 11/14/2018 at 11:39 PM, The Nehor said:

I will try not become too depraved or attack anyone but.....no promises.

Well, I will keep homosexuality as an option if nothing else seems to work out.

Crossdressers and trans are always options too~

On 11/15/2018 at 9:21 AM, longview said:

Move to India and apply for arranged marriage.

image.jpeg.60942c6f67805d2bf896c4f0024729a3.jpeg

Can get those in Hawaii, they have matchmaking agencies.

On 11/15/2018 at 10:03 AM, strappinglad said:

It is written that " the meek shall inherit the earth". Perhaps so in the long, long run. For now the ' fertile' will inherit the land.

Until we get a war and they get killed off.  Drone swarms are a thing, also they've come a long way with Atlas.  I picture someone like Mr. Burns using these.

 

Edited by poptart
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