mbh26 Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 Alma 40:11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life. Does everyone meet God when they die? And for how long? It made me think of near death experiences and the fact that most of them are positive. Even people that had no belief in God or any religion describe a positive experience. There's no lake of fire and brimstone nor weeping, wailing, or gnashing of teeth? Is this because they only got to the initial phase? Do we meet God for an instant at death and then those that didn't perform well enough are cast into spirit prison to await a final judgment?
rodheadlee Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 When I died I went straight to the Outer Darkness. There was no one there except for me. Then I was given a Second Chance. 1
Duncan Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 I highly doubt when we die we see God the Father and I would be extremely surprised if we saw Christ
CV75 Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, mbh26 said: Alma 40:11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life. Does everyone meet God when they die? And for how long? It made me think of near death experiences and the fact that most of them are positive. Even people that had no belief in God or any religion describe a positive experience. There's no lake of fire and brimstone nor weeping, wailing, or gnashing of teeth? Is this because they only got to the initial phase? Do we meet God for an instant at death and then those that didn't perform well enough are cast into spirit prison to await a final judgment? To be taken someplace means it is beyond your capacity to travel there yourself. To be taken home your parents who gave you life may not entail their being right there upon your arrival. You may even want to see them, depending on your state of happiness or misery with which you anticipate them. I think there is enough light in that home to create a reaction in us, whether that be a sense of rest or a sense of dread, and so we await Judgement Day in a paradise or prison. Jesus judges us, and then we pass to the place in God’s mansion where we have elected to stay, and which He may not elect to visit in person. I think “house” could also refer to our resurrected bodies with the quickening or glory we receive, and , and the mansions the communities of like inhabitants, and this determines how close we can get to God in the hereafter.
mbh26 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Duncan said: I highly doubt when we die we see God the Father and I would be extremely surprised if we saw Christ So why does this scripture say we do? I noticed they left it out of our gospel doctrine class. And why do all these near death experiences talk about seeing some kind of God or supreme being?
JAHS Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 2 hours ago, mbh26 said: Alma 40:11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life. Does everyone meet God when they die? And for how long? It made me think of near death experiences and the fact that most of them are positive. Even people that had no belief in God or any religion describe a positive experience. There's no lake of fire and brimstone nor weeping, wailing, or gnashing of teeth? Is this because they only got to the initial phase? Do we meet God for an instant at death and then those that didn't perform well enough are cast into spirit prison to await a final judgment? I think that all people who die are sent to the spirit world where God resides and there a judgment of sorts by God that determines whether a person remains in Paradise or goes to spirit prison, both places beng within the Spirit world. The weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth happens in outer darkness where satan resides; not in the spirit world. Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 2
strappinglad Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 Remember that the experience is told because the person CAME BACK. Had they remained, who knows who they might have met. There are a percentage of NDEs that are ' hellish' , most are not .
cdowis Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 5 hours ago, mbh26 said: are taken home to that God who gave them life. Does everyone meet God when they die? I is a poetic phrase.
carbon dioxide Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, cdowis said: I is a poetic phrase. I agree. The Celestial Kingdom is where God is. That is His home. The Spirit World is not that. I think this is just a saying that we move on somewhere else God has prepared for us. God rules over many mansions and perhaps the Spirit World is one of them.
mbh26 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Posted November 5, 2018 13 hours ago, strappinglad said: Remember that the experience is told because the person CAME BACK. Had they remained, who knows who they might have met. There are a percentage of NDEs that are ' hellish' , most are not . I find this kind of interesting. Would you agree that most people won't be worthy of spirit paradise when they die?
JAHS Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, mbh26 said: I find this kind of interesting. Would you agree that most people won't be worthy of spirit paradise when they die? It's not always a matter of being unworthy, but just a lack of knowledge about the gospel of Jesus Christ, which would be most people on the earth. Spirit prison might also just be a state of mind rather than an actual place that is separate from paradise. Edited November 5, 2018 by JAHS 1
mbh26 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Posted November 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, JAHS said: It's not always a matter of being unworthy, but just a lack of knowledge about the gospel of Jesus Christ, which would be most people on the earth. Spirit prison might also just be a state of mind rather than an actual place that is separate from paradise. Is spirit prison a place where individuals are being tormented/punished by Satan?
Duncan Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 14 hours ago, mbh26 said: So why does this scripture say we do? I noticed they left it out of our gospel doctrine class. And why do all these near death experiences talk about seeing some kind of God or supreme being? but there are ones that don't as well. I would say that we are taken home but not as of yet to see God, who did give us life. If we did see God then, to me, anyways, this life and accepting the Gospel here would be pointless, if in the next life you find out that God does exist and the gospel is real then what would be the point of all of this here. In the next life we are taught in DC 138, the "dead who repent" so the billions of spirits in the next life who embrace the Gospel need to have faith, repent, be baptized, you know the rest but they like us need to overcome by faith. It isn't some wholesale offering.
mbh26 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) Quote I would say that we are taken home but not as of yet to see God, who did give us life. Is it possible that the Book of Mormon prophets understanding was just incomplete at this point or perhaps even mistaken? Edited November 5, 2018 by mbh26
Duncan Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 29 minutes ago, mbh26 said: Is it possible that the Book of Mormon prophets understanding was just incomplete at this point or perhaps even mistaken? could be!
strappinglad Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 On the cross Christ said to the thief, " TODAY , thou shalt be with Me in paradise " . Sounds like Alma 40 to me. I guess one could stretch that to " in 1000 years" because a day with the Lord is as 1000 years with us, but that just seems silly. Maybe spirit prison has several ' wings' and levels of security. One wing may house the Pol Pots of the world, another may house the repentant thieves etc.
mbh26 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Posted November 5, 2018 2 hours ago, strappinglad said: On the cross Christ said to the thief, " TODAY , thou shalt be with Me in paradise " . Sounds like Alma 40 to me. I guess one could stretch that to " in 1000 years" because a day with the Lord is as 1000 years with us, but that just seems silly. Maybe spirit prison has several ' wings' and levels of security. One wing may house the Pol Pots of the world, another may house the repentant thieves etc. It does seem like we actually meet God or Jesus and undergo a sort of pre judgment and are then sent to different levels of the spirit world? But I don't have a good answer for Duncan's point that if we meet God right after we die, doesn't that ruin the test of faith? But I tend to believe people did meet Jesus when they had a near death experience.
Calm Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) If God does speak to those recently dead (and I think it likely myself), he would likely still have to be veiled to a certain extent because they would not yet be purified of sin if ignorant of the gospel or not yet fully accepting of the Atonement. But I think faith may come into it more at that point in the sense of willing to trust him enough to surrender oneself to him rather than taking a leap of faith about his existence. It is also possible we don't fully understand the function of what we label the English word "faith" as we may have simplified it too much, reduced it to 'acting without knowledge, but with belief'. It may operate even when significant knowledge is paired with it. Edited November 5, 2018 by Calm
JAHS Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 4 hours ago, mbh26 said: Is spirit prison a place where individuals are being tormented/punished by Satan? No. Satan is in outer darkness, a place and condition very separate from the spirit world. Spirits in spirit prison still need to learn and accept the gospel and overcome sins if they want to be removed from that place/condition and be able to enjoy Paradise and possibly gain eternal life.
strappinglad Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 NDE ers often say that they felt like they had returned home. I wonder how much of the memory of their past life with God returns. 1
theplains Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 22 hours ago, mbh26 said: And why do all these near death experiences talk about seeing some kind of God or supreme being? Not all NDE are joyful. https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/05/to-hell-and-back-the-dark-side-of-near-death-experiences/ Jim
The Nehor Posted November 6, 2018 Posted November 6, 2018 13 hours ago, mbh26 said: Can God be in two places at once? Why not?
The Nehor Posted November 6, 2018 Posted November 6, 2018 11 hours ago, mbh26 said: I find this kind of interesting. Would you agree that most people won't be worthy of spirit paradise when they die? Yes.
mbh26 Posted November 6, 2018 Author Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, theplains said: Not all NDE are joyful. https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/05/to-hell-and-back-the-dark-side-of-near-death-experiences/ Jim "In many cases, the person has not done anything that would seem to make them deserve the torment they have gone through." I can't help but wonder exactly how and why people will suffer in hell. The description of having your flesh burnt or eaten to nothing only to grow back and repeat the process again reminds me some of the Greek fable of Tantalus.
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