Alma 40:11

[mbh26]

21 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Why not?

I just think of the Holy Ghost having to remain a spirit so that He can dwell within all of us. 

But yeah, I think God would have to be capable of being in many places at once perhaps in some quantum mechanics way that we can't understand now.   How do you have a body but yet everywhere and in everything?  Infinite flesh?  

[teddyaware]

12 hours ago, mbh26 said:

Is it possible that the Book of Mormon prophets understanding was just incomplete at this point or perhaps even mistaken?  

That would be pretty strange in light of the fact that Alma testifies the very words he wrote referring to the spirits of the dead returning home to that God who gave them life were given to him directly by a ministering angel. So the angel who ministered to Alma would also have to have been in error in order for your idea to have the possibility of being correct. Doesn’t seem likely.

[Tacenda]

14 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

That would be pretty strange in light of the fact that Alma testifies the very words he wrote referring to the spirits of the dead returning home to that God who gave them life were given to him directly by a ministering angel. So the angel who ministered to Alma would also have to have been in error in order for your idea to have the possibility of being correct. Doesn’t seem likely.

Long time no see teddyaware!!

[RevTestament]

20 hours ago, mbh26 said:

I just think of the Holy Ghost having to remain a spirit so that He can dwell within all of us. \

I presently think of the Holy Spirit or Comforter as an office - perhaps the Father's #2 son. If so, eventually someone else will get called to that office...

Quote

But yeah, I think God would have to be capable of being in many places at once perhaps in some quantum mechanics way that we can't understand now.   How do you have a body but yet everywhere and in everything?  Infinite flesh?  

Our bodies are merely a house for our spirit. Some have the ability to project their spirit a little beyond their physical bodies - to know the thoughts of others, etc. I believe the Father is not limited by His body. This, however, does not mean He chooses to live in sinful creatures. That appears to be the job of the Holy Spirit, who can be chased away to the extent that we are not repentant.. 

[teddyaware]

On 11/4/2018 at 5:19 PM, mbh26 said:

Alma 40:11  Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.

Does everyone meet God when they die?  And for how long?  It made me think of near death experiences and the fact that most of them are positive.  Even people that had no belief in God or any religion describe a positive experience.  There's no lake of fire and brimstone nor weeping, wailing, or gnashing of teeth?  Is this because they only got to the initial phase?  Do we meet God for an instant at death and then those that didn't perform well enough are cast into spirit prison to await a final judgment?  

According to Brigham Young, the word “home” in the expression “taken home to that God who gave the, life” refers to the post-mortal spirit world in general, not to a brief encounter with the person of God immediately after death, prior to an assignment to either paradise or the spirit prison. President Young’s understanding of Alma 40:11 is that after death all men, whether they be good or evil, are returned home to a spiritual state where the things of God are easier to understand and harder to deny.

“It reads that the spirit goes to God who gave it. Let me render this scripture a little plainer. When the spirits leave their bodies, they’re in the presence of our Father and God in the sense that they are then prepared to see, hear, and understand spiritual things.” (Brigham Young, General Conference)

Apparently, it’s because of the fact that the spirits of the dead are in a place and condition where learning the things of God is less difficult that all the inhabitants of the post-mortal spirit world, except for the sons of perdition, will eventually repent, be  converted and on blended knee confess to God the Father that Jesus is the Christ. So rather than being a brief personal encounter with God at the moment of death, the “home” of Alma 40:11 is the post-mortal spirit world where the preaching and teaching of the gospel continues at an accelerated pace (see D&C 138). After being home in the post-mortal spirit world for as long as is necessary in order to accomplish the saving purposes of God, it will eventually come to pass that the spiritually unresponsive wicked — the sons of perdition — will be permanently separated from the righteous who will receive salvation through their faith in Christ in one of the three kingdoms of glory.

Edited November 7, 2018 by teddyaware

[pogi]

On 11/5/2018 at 6:28 PM, mbh26 said:

How do you have a body but yet everywhere and in everything?  Infinite flesh?  

You tap into and become one with the Holy Spirit that fills the immensity of space, that is in all things and through all things, aka the light of Christ - the all seeing eye.

See D&C 88 and 93

[mbh26]

5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

According to Brigham Young, the word “home” in the expression “taken home to that God who gave the, life” refers to the post-mortal spirit world in general, not to a brief encounter with the person of God immediately after death, prior to an assignment to either paradise or the spirit prison. President Young’s understanding of Alma 40:11 is that after death all men, whether they be good or evil, are returned home to a spiritual state where the things of God are easier to understand and harder to deny.

“It reads that the spirit goes to God who gave it. Let me render this scripture a little plainer. When the spirits leave their bodies, they’re in the presence of our Father and God in the sense that they are then prepared to see, hear, and understand spiritual things.” (Brigham Young, General Conference)

Apparently, it’s because of the fact that the spirits of the dead are in a place and condition where learning the things of God is less difficult that all the inhabitants of the post-mortal spirit world, except for the sons of perdition, will eventually repent, be  converted and on blended knee confess to God the Father that Jesus is the Christ. So rather than being a brief personal encounter with God at the moment of death, the “home” of Alma 40:11 is the post-mortal spirit world where the preaching and teaching of the gospel continues at an accelerated pace (see D&C 138). After being home in the post-mortal spirit world for as long as is necessary in order to accomplish the saving purposes of God, it will eventually come to pass that the spiritually unresponsive wicked — the sons of perdition — will be permanently separated from the righteous who will receive salvation through their faith in Christ in one of the three kingdoms of glory.

Teddyaware do you think people in near death experiences didn't really see God or a Supreme Being?  

[theplains]

On 11/5/2018 at 8:25 PM, mbh26 said:

"In many cases, the person has not done anything that would seem to make them deserve the torment they have gone through."

I can't help but wonder exactly how and why people will suffer in hell.  The description of having your flesh burnt or eaten to nothing only to grow back and repeat the process again reminds me some of the Greek fable of Tantalus.  

Sometimes I wonder the same when reading the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Jim

[teddyaware]

10 hours ago, mbh26 said:

Teddyaware do you think people in near death experiences didn't really see God or a Supreme Being?  

Actually dying and near death experiences are not the same thing. Also, many people who’ve had near death experiences report that they saw nothing like a divine being.

[mbh26]

8 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Actually dying and near death experiences are not the same thing. Also, many people who’ve had near death experiences report that they saw nothing like a divine being.

I was just curious if you thought seeing God in preliminary judgment or life review as soon you die is against lds doctrine or not.  

 

[mbh26]

14 hours ago, theplains said:

Sometimes I wonder the same when reading the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

Jim

Do you think hell involves other beings actually inflicting pain upon you?  Or is it just a feeling of guilt?  Honestly the hellfire and brimstone and demons seem more frightening to me.  I've felt guilty before but the truth is that ultimately the amount of guilt I feel is under my control and I really don't have to dwell on that forever.  Having your flesh burnt off and regrown to burn again sounds pretty agonizing regardless of whatever psychological technique you use to deal with it. 

[theplains]

On 11/8/2018 at 9:24 AM, mbh26 said:

Do you think hell involves other beings actually inflicting pain upon you?  Or is it just a feeling of guilt?  Honestly the hellfire and brimstone and demons seem more frightening to me.  I've felt guilty before but the truth is that ultimately the amount of guilt I feel is under my control and I really don't have to dwell on that forever.  Having your flesh burnt off and regrown to burn again sounds pretty agonizing regardless of whatever psychological technique you use to deal with it. 

I don't think hell involves other beings inflicting pain on someone, as those beings are in the same suffering
position too.  I found this discussion about hell - https://www.gotquestions.org/what-does-hell-look-like.html.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:81 seems to indicate that people will be released from hell to be welcomed into a
kingdom more glorious [assumption] than their life on earth before they died (contrast with Alma 34:32-35;
40:11-14; and 2 Nephi 9:25). 

"And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs
from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament. These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither
the testimony of Jesus.  These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit. These are they who are thrust down to hell.
These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the
Lamb, shall have finished his work."

Doctrine and Covenants 63:17 is a reference to liars, whoremongers, and sorcerers being cast into the lake of fire
but Doctrine and Covenants 76:103,106 has these telestials (liars, sorcerers, adulterers, and whoremongers)
leaving hell for a kingdom of glory.

Another 'revelation' has the wicked (those who don't become gods) cursed with everlasting fire.

“Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat and the tares, that the wheat
may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life, and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in
the kingdom of my Father to reward every man according as his work shall be; While the tares shall be bound in
bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable fire” (D&C 101:65-66).

I think one of the scariest section of scripture is Revelation 20:10, 15 - "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown
into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and
night for ever and ever. . . . Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of
fire.”

Jim

Edited November 12, 2018 by theplains
added one section