what is our position on the Caravan

[BlueDreams]

9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

There is no way to know that. Had he been legally he might have been a model citizen gainfully employed and living in another place.

 

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

??? No.

Butterfly effect.

There’s easy ways to check the probability of the influence of said butterfly. The research doesn’t back up this idea that if only he was legal or vetted or whatever else, he wouldn’t have commit a crime. 

To me the new pull to point out anecdotal evidence of crime among undocumented immigrants over the crimes by citizens is a fear-based tactic. It’s not based in evidence and solid trends, but in exceptions and painful stories...and they often highlight crimes that effected citizens, the more nobel or innocent the better. This is an old and common trope that has happened again and again in minority communities, depending which of us is the boogeyman or the problem today. And yet the same treatment is not given to the majority in power...or to ones own group when extreme behavior is occurring. Even though hate crimes are up 2 years in a row, especially towards minority groups. Even when we had 3 high profile hate crimes over the last week by extremist conservative-oriented folk against people deemed “enemies” 

 

I do wonder how many who are hyper concerned about undocumented immigrants have actually rubbed shoulders with significant numbers of those they’re talking about. From most i’ve known who have a bone to pick, hold several fear-oriented beliefs, and want limited immigration,  often have little real connections or friends with said populations (not always, but quite often). It may be someone they see, but don’t really have close interactions with. And even when they are in common communication, are unlikely to have real in-depth conversations to understand their perspectives and concerns as undocumented immigrants.  

 

Not always, obviously, but quite often 

 

And fear grows best with the unknown and unseen experience.

 

With luv,

BD

Edited October 30, 2018 by BlueDreams

[ALarson]

13 hours ago, Danzo said:

Yes, I help illegal immigrants without social security numbers fill out their 1040s and teach them how to do it. They pay me to do it. 

I'm wondering how you do this without being deceitful and dishonest (and outright telling lies on the form)?  Are you helping them pay taxes or get a refund from the government?

If you are helping them get money or a refund, have they even paid any taxes for their earnings (for that year)?

Where does the social security number come from that you use for them?

I really would like to know how this works as I'm not familiar with doing this for those who are not here legally.  

Edited October 30, 2018 by ALarson

[Danzo]

3 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I want to speak to the two comments above.

How does someone file a 1040, without a Social Security Number, and if they do so, how do they conceal their status as someone who is in this country illegally? 

Also, if you are an Attorney, you cannot violate the law, nor pick and choose with laws to obey, without being disbarred. Just as I could not as an sworn Officer of the Law. Nor am I allowed as a Latter-day Saint, at least in this day and age, choose which laws I want to abide by, and ignore or break, or "help to break", others. 

Anyway, I'm done with this topic.   

To answer your first question, for someone without a social security number,  the IRS gives them an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  (ITIN).  This is a nine digit number. To get one, you fill out form W-7.  There is no concelnent of their status.

The presence of an ITIN number does not necessarily mean the person is not legal, but many who use one are. You would also use one if you  never entered the country but had US derived income, or f you earned money while here on a tourist Visa(got lucky in las Vegas).

Likewise, having a social security number does not mean you are here legally. Social security numbers do not expire. All having one means is that you were eligible to work here at one time.

As for your accusation that I am helping someone break the law, you might want to actually find out what the law actually is before making such accusations.

Title 26 (the internal revenue code) defines a US resident as anyone who lives in the US for more than six months, regardless of immigration status. It does not reference the Immigration law at all.

US law requires the filing of tax returns regardless of their legal status.

I help people obey the requirements of that law. 

The bar is well aware of what I do.

[ALarson]

4 minutes ago, Danzo said:

To answer your first question, for someone without a social security number,  the IRS gives them an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  (ITIN).  This is a nine digit number. To get one, you fill out form W-7.  There is no concelnent of their status.

The presence of an ITIN number does not necessarily mean the person is not legal, but many who use one are. You would also use one if you  never entered the country but had US derived income, or f you earned money while here on a tourist Visa(got lucky in las Vegas).

Likewise, having a social security number does not mean you are here legally. Social security numbers do not expire. All having one means is that you were eligible to work here at one time.

As for your accusation that I am helping someone break the law, you might want to actually find out what the law actually is before making such accusations.

Title 26 (the internal revenue code) defines a US resident as anyone who lives in the US for more than six months, regardless of immigration status. It does not reference the Immigration law at all.

US law requires the filing of tax returns regardless of their legal status.

I help people obey the requirements of that law. 

The bar is well aware of what I do.

Thanks for the info (it answers some of the questions I asked!).

Can you quote where Title 26 "definies a US resident as anyone who lives in the US for more than six months, regardless of immigration status"?  I'm not doubting you, but would like to read it as I was not aware this was true.

 

[Danzo]

11 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I'm wondering how you do this without being deceitful and dishonest (and outright telling lies on the form)?  Are you helping them pay taxes or get a refund from the government?

If you are helping them get money or a refund, have they even paid any taxes for their earnings (for that year)?

Where does the social security number come from that you use for them?

I really would like to know how this works as I'm not familiar with doing this for those who are not here legally.  

Sometimes they get refunds because they overpaid, sometimes they pay. Just had an illegal that had to write out a check for over fifty thousand dollars.

Some qualify for credits (solar panels, child tax credit, earned income credit, business tax credits, education credits, etc).

Of these, only the earned income credit and the primium assistance tax  credit really get you money back without  would paying in.( There are a couple other ones, but they are rare).

The US tax code does not use immigration status to define who is a US resident.  It uses what is called the substantial presence test (basically if you are here more than six months with a little fine print)

[Danzo]

4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Thanks for the info (it answers some of the questions I asked!).

Can you quote where Title 26 "definies a US resident as anyone who lives in the US for more than six months, regardless of immigration status"?  I'm not doubting you, but would like to read it as I was not aware this was true.

 

I'll reference it when I get to work today. Too hard to do it on the phone.(for me at least).

[MiserereNobis]

It's nice to have someone who actually works with undocumented immigrants and taxes to dispel some fear-based or fear-mongering myths about them.

Thanks @Danzo

[smac97]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

To me the new pull to point out anecdotal evidence of crime among undocumented immigrants over the crimes by citizens is a fear-based tactic.

I don't think so.  I think it's a reasonable one.  It's the mirror image to anecdotes about "illegal immigrants are just people who want to come here and work and provide for their families."  

Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime.

Quote

It’s not based in evidence and solid trends, but in exceptions and painful stories...and they often highlight crimes that effected citizens, the more nobel or innocent the better.

I'm surprised at the cynicism.

Quote

This is an old and common trope that has happened again and again in minority communities, depending which of us is the boogeyman or the problem today.

I don't equate illegal immigrants with "minority communities."  This isn't a race issue.  There are plenty of "minority" folks who also oppose or are concerned about illegal immigration.  13% of Hispanics want illegal immigrants deported, and a plurality feel that illegal immigration has a negative impact.  (Source).  Half (48%) of Democrats and 79% of Republicans are concerned about illegal immigration.  (Source).  See also this article:

FWIW, I deeply resent the "If you are concerned about illegal immigration you must be a bigot and hate brown people" trope.  False accusations of racism are a deeply problematic "fear-based tactic," IMO.  Nobody wants to be publicly accused of being a racist, so such false accusations are often used to silence/shun people with diverging viewpoints on illegal immigration.

I have been accused in this very thread of racism (by Danzo), in a rather blatant attempt to silence me.  It was not appreciated.  

Quote

Illegal immigrants should be prohibited from accessing all but emergency public services because the cost of these services unfairly and disproportionately falls on black families, according to the black leadership network Project 21 in its “Blueprint for a Better Deal for Black America.”

The Blueprint is Project 21’s 57-point plan for removing barriers blocking blacks from empowerment and ensuring that they have their chance of attaining the American dream.

The influx of millions of illegal immigrants has strained public services and placed a disproportionate burden on black communities, Project 21 notes. In education, for example, Project 21 says black students are more likely to suffer the consequences of expanding class sizes to accommodate immigrants than their white counterparts, noting that – in 83 of the largest 100 cities – black and Hispanic students attended schools with majority non-white populations.

“Millions of people being able to stay in our country illegally not only demonstrates the failure of our immigration system, but also causes a significant strain on public services – especially at the state and local level. Our neediest Americans, particularly blacks in urban communities, must compete for education and health programs with those who shouldn’t even be here,” explained Project 21 Co-Chairman Horace Cooper, a former professor of constitutional law and senior counsel to congressional leadership. “At the same time, much of the funding for these local programs comes from regressive taxes that hit poor and working-class blacks the hardest. This means they actually pay for the privilege of having unlawful immigrants in their neighborhoods. This is unfair, and it should end.” 

Illegal immigration costs taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level, according to figures from the Federation for American Immigration Reform. 

...

Black citizens pay their share of these taxes, Project 21 notes, yet the government programs funded through these taxes are then reduced or unavailable to black Americans in too many communities due to illegal residents taking advantage of them.

There are four specific proposals in Project 21’s Blueprint designed to give black citizens a better deal and prevent them from being forced to subsidize those residing illegally in the United States:

• Bar illegal aliens from accessing any public services, except emergency services.
• Terminate federal funding of any social service agency that provides non-emergency services to illegal immigrants.
• Prosecute providers and recipients who allow scarce federally-funded social services to be used by those who are in the country illegally.
• End states’ special programs for assisting unlawful immigrants, redirecting those funds to needy citizens.

I disagree with these policy proposals.  I think we need to provide for the illegal immigrants who are here.  But these policy proposals are A) being presented as pertaining to (i.e. to benefit) black Americans, and B) are not race-based (there's nothing about targeting illegal immigrants based on race).  So concern about illegal immigration is, for many, many people, not a "race" issue.

Quote

I do wonder how many who are hyper concerned about undocumented immigrants have actually rubbed shoulders with significant numbers of those they’re talking about.

I'm not "hyper concerned."

And I rub shoulders with significant numbers of illegal immigrants.  Quite regularly, actually.  

Quote

From most i’ve known who have a bone to pick, hold several fear-oriented beliefs, and want limited immigration,  often have little real connections or friends with said populations (not always, but quite often).

Anecdotal evidence.

Quote

It may be someone they see, but don’t really have close interactions with. And even when they are in common communication, are unlikely to have real in-depth conversations to understand their perspectives and concerns as undocumented immigrants.  

Speaking of "fear-based tactics."

Nobody wants to be accused of being an elitist, out-of-touch racist, either.

Quote

Not always, obviously, but quite often 

And fear grows best with the unknown and unseen experience.

Fear also grows with "otherizing" people.

And this can include fear of false accusations of racism.

Many good and decent people are concerned about illegal immigration.  That does not make them cloistered, elitist bigots.

-Smac

Edited October 30, 2018 by smac97

[Tacenda]

11 minutes ago, smac97 said:

 

I disagree with these policy proposals.  I think we need to provide for the illegal immigrants who are here.  But these policy proposals are A) being presented as pertaining to black Americans, and B) are not race-based.  So concern about illegal immigration is, for many, many people, not a "race" issue.

I'm not "hyper concerned."

And I rub shoulders with significant numbers of illegal immigrants.  Quite regularly, actually.  

 

I'm curious, if you're okay to explain a little, how you rub shoulders. No worries if you don't want to say. My first thought was that you may be an immigration attorney. 

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

To answer your first question, for someone without a social security number,  the IRS gives them an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.  (ITIN).  This is a nine digit number. To get one, you fill out form W-7.  There is no concelnent of their status.

That is true when illegal immigrants use an ITIN.  But when they steal an SSN, then that's a different story.  See, e.g., here (emphases added):

Quote

According to a recent Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration audit, the labor market includes a shocking 1.4 million employed illegal aliens who in 2015 used falsified or stolen Social Security numbers to get hired. Not only have the illegal immigrants committed a crime by unlawfully entering the United States, but identity theft through fraudulent Social Security number misuse is a felony.

Identity theft, a little discussed criminal component of illegal immigration, creates major headaches for the citizens and legal permanent residents who must explain to the IRS why their tax filings omitted income they never earned.

Inspector General J. Russell George understated the inconvenience identity theft creates for innocent taxpayers when he said in a statement that it represents a “significant burden.” The Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) significantly complicates the problem. The ITIN was created for those who don’t have — and aren’t eligible for — a Social Security number. It is used by aliens who of course are ineligible for Social Security numbers. But their W-2 forms submitted to employers include valid Social Security numbers — that belong to someone else.

The Washington Times reported that 87 percent of online tax submissions with an ITIN showed income associated with a Social Security number which could not possibly belong to the filer. ITIN-based taxes filed using the old-fashioned paper method reflected slightly less, but still significant, fraud of about 50 percent.

The tax fraud illegal immigrants perpetrate is a longstanding problem that has an easy solution. But as with so many other immigration-related problems, the political will to bring about change is nonexistent.

And here (emphases added):

Quote

Last week, a House Ways and Means subcommittee heard testimony from the Social Security Administration acting commissioner about the widespread and ongoing theft of Social Security numbers (SSNs)from the American public. Despite its pervasiveness, the illegal alien side of the problem is rarely raised by the media or in Congress. Illegal immigration in general wasn’t mentioned at all during the May 17 hearing. And when the media does cover it, it’s commonly used as a rallying cry to support mass amnesty — the claim being that “illegal aliens pay into the system” and, therefore, “are as American as you and me.”

In 2013, the Social Security Administration’s Office of the Chief Actuary estimated that more than 40 percent of all illegal aliens working in the U.S. were doing so using fake or stolen SSNs. Elsewhere, the office has put the figure as high as 75 percent. And the crime is as serious as it is widespread. By getting tied to bad credit or unreported income out of the blue, the victim can become falsely frozen out of his Social Security benefits or face audits from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). The impact takes years and thousands of dollars, on average, for the victim to reconcile.

The most vulnerable targets for SSN theft are children. Because children generally don’t use their SSNs until they turn 18, the crime can go undetected for years, meaning they’re prime targets for black-market operators. One study by Carnegie Mellon University estimated U.S. children are 51 times more likely to have their SSNs stolen than adults.

And here (emphases added):

Quote

The most common number offered by our media for the number of people living here illegally seems to be about 12 million.  Factcheck.org, published by the  Annenberg Public Policy Center, purporting to be a neutral and objective source, cites DHS estimates as well as NGOs...

...

To be fair, measuring illegal activity is inherently difficult.  But the striking thing is that these established authoritative sources pretty much agree on the ballpark.  Normally, that establishes a high level of confidence.

But then, how do we square 12 million with the newly released data from the Immigration Reform Law Institute?  Paul Bedard writes in the Washington Examiner:

Quote

Nearly 40 million Social Security numbers have been stolen and used by illegal immigrants [sic] and others to get work, according to agency records obtained by an immigration reform group.

The Immigration Reform Law Institute said that from 2012 to 2016 there were "39 million instances where names and Social Security numbers on W-2 tax forms did not match the corresponding Social Security records."

The group said that there is a "thriving black market" used by illegal immigrants [sic] to get Social Security numbers needed to get a job.

Let's allow that a percentage of the stolen numbers were not used by illegals, but how big would that be?  Ten percent?  Who else has a need for a stolen identity?  Well, there are those sleeper agents for foreign powers, like the starring couple in the TV series The Americans, Russians who were trained to pose as ordinary Americans.  But there can't be millions of them.  I suppose that there are con men and con women exploiting phony identities, but again, how many millions of them can there possibly be?

Being generous to the other groups, there must be at least thirty million illegal aliens using stolen Social Security numbers.  How could 12 million illegals account for 30 million stolen identities in the period of 34 years?

Some illegals do end up using more than one number because:

Quote

"The Social Security numbers of young children are especially sought by illegal aliens, as this theft is likely to go undetected for years.  As children reach late teenage years and apply for credit for cars, student loans, and other needs, they may find that their credit has been compromised with mortgages, credit cards and criminal records attached to their identities," said the group.

But four years is not enough time for such "replacement" numbers to be needed, and the nearly 40 million numbers all appeared in that short time frame.

One thing that we do know: The Obama administration had no interest at all in discovering the magnitude of the problem:

Quote

Their report draws attention to a move by former President Barack Obama to stop sending so-called "no match" letters to employers notifying them that numbers used by employees on the wage forms do not match their identity.

The change followed the president's decision to approve amnesty for some 700,000 younger immigrants [sic] let into the U.S. under his Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals.  Some of those have been dubbed "dreamers."

Finding out how many people are here illegally is the most basic, necessary step in restoring the rule of law.  My guess is that the number is shockingly higher than the estimates FactCheck.org wants us to accept.

And here (emphases added):

Quote

This isn’t exactly the kind of story the IRS wants buzzing around at tax time. The IRS and Justice Department normally want 'scared straight' stories just before Tax Day. Ideally, when an indictment or conviction for tax evasion hits the news, it makes you think twice. Somehow, you think just a bit more about all those deductions, or if you really reported all your income, before you sign your return under penalties of perjury.

Instead, we have the top dog at the IRS, the IRS Commissioner himself, admitting that, well, there’s a problem with illegal immigrants and taxes. In fact, the top IRS official this time wasn’t talking about how the IRS wipes some hard drives or can’t find emails. He wasn’t even asking for a bigger budget to give bonuses to IRS employees.

This time, he was talking about illegal immigrants, and about the IRS turning a blind eye. Or maybe worse. The IRS actually wants illegal immigrants to illegally use Social Security numbers, he suggested. IRS Commissioner John Koskinen made the surprising statement in response to a question from Sen. Dan Coats, R-Ind., at a Senate Finance Committee meeting. The question was a touchy one. Gee, is the IRS collaborating with taxpayers who file tax returns using fraudulent information? It wasn't put exactly that way. According to Senator Coats:

Quote

What we learned is that ... the IRS continues to process tax returns with false W-2 information and issue refunds as if they were routine tax returns, and say that's not really our job. We also learned the IRS ignores notifications from the Social Security Administration that a name does not match a Social Security number, and you use your own system to determine whether a number is valid.

Commissioner Koskinen was asked to explain this. He suggested that as long as the information is being used only to fraudulently obtain jobs, the IRS was OK with it. In fact, he said that the IRS actually had an interest in helping the illegal immigrants to crook these rules. In fairness, perhaps it's just the 'that's not my department' response that abounds in big government. Perhaps this just isn't the IRS'sproblem, but it sure seems odd to have any agency chief encouraging illegal immigrant theft of SSNs.

And so it goes.

Quote

Likewise, having a social security number does not mean you are here legally. Social security numbers do not expire. All having one means is that you were eligible to work here at one time.

Unless, of course, the SSN has been stolen.  A stolen SSN does not bestow eligibility.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited October 30, 2018 by smac97

[Vance]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

The Savior’s conviction was lawful but unjust.

No, it wasn't lawful.  Just because it was successful (in getting him killed) it wasn't lawful.

[Vance]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

It was unjust because he did not violate any laws.

Prima facie evidence that it was unlawful.

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

It was legal because the false witnesses were enough to convict.

Bearing false witness was unlawful,  more evidence that it was unlawful

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

The process was irregular but the I’s were dotted and the T’s were crossed.

Being successful didn't make it lawful.

 

[Vance]

Those poor caravan folks are now making demands.

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/10/30/now-caravan-demanding-transportation/

I guess we have to buckle under to their latest demands,  because,         Jesus.

 

 

[Danzo]

1 hour ago, ALarson said:

Thanks for the info (it answers some of the questions I asked!).

Can you quote where Title 26 "definies a US resident as anyone who lives in the US for more than six months, regardless of immigration status"?  I'm not doubting you, but would like to read it as I was not aware this was true.

 

its found in the definition section of Title 26, section 7701 subsection (b)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7701

"Resident alien An alien individual shall be treated as a resident of the United States with respect to any calendar year if (and only if) such individual meets the requirements of clause (i), (ii), or (iii):

     (i)Lawfully admitted for permanent residence

               Such individual is a lawful permanent resident of the United States at any time during such calendar year.

     (ii)Substantial presence test

            Such individual meets the substantial presence test of paragraph (3)."

paragraph 3 says

"In general Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, an individual meets the substantial presence test of this paragraph with respect to any calendar year(hereinafter in this subsection referred to as the “current year”) if—

       (i)   such individual was present in the United States on at least 31 days during the calendar year, and

       (ii)  the sum of the number of days on which such individual was present in the United States during the current year and the 2 preceding calendar years (when multiplied by the applicable multiplier determined under                  the following table) equals or exceeds 183 days:"

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Danzo

[Vance]

1 minute ago, Danzo said:

its found in the definition section of Title 26, section 7701 subsection (b)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/7701

"Resident alien An alien individual shall be treated as a resident of the United States with respect to any calendar year if (and only if) such individual meets the requirements of clause (i), (ii), or (iii):

(i)Lawfully admitted for permanent residence

Such individual is a lawful permanent resident of the United States at any time during such calendar year.

(ii)Substantial presence test

Such individual meets the substantial presence test of paragraph (3)."

paragraph 3 says

"In general Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, an individual meets the substantial presence test of this paragraph with respect to any calendar year(hereinafter in this subsection referred to as the “current year”) if—

(i)

such individual was present in the United States on at least 31 days during the calendar year, and

(ii)

the sum of the number of days on which such individual was present in the United States during the current year and the 2 preceding calendar years (when multiplied by the applicable multiplier determined under the following table) equals or exceeds 183 days:"

 

 

 

You can't use the law to deny entrance into the US of anyone who wants to come here,  because,  JESUS!!! 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

There’s easy ways to check the probability of the influence of said butterfly. The research doesn’t back up this idea that if only he was legal or vetted or whatever else, he wouldn’t have commit a crime.

There’s no way to predict that he would have committed the same crime if he had entered the country legally. That is what I was answering. 

[Vance]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Oh, for......

I saw that clickbait and made a few predictions:

1. It came from Fox News.

2. It would be incredibly short on details with no follow up so it serves as propaganda instead of real reporting.

Right on both counts.

The source was right there in the link, and YOU STILL GOT IT WRONG!!!!!!

[halconero]

FWIW, President Nelson added another comment regarding immigration a couple days ago:

"On immigration, President Nelson said, 'We teach that we should build projects of cooperation instead of fences of opposition,' adding, 'I don't like fences.'"

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by halconero

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

So according to your logic, having different immigration laws would have prevented this tragedy. 

No. By my logic it is absurd to assert he would have committed the same crime whether he were legally admitted or not. First, there is no way to prove such a thing, and second, being a legal immigrant probably would have put into motion events that could reasonably be assumed to put him in different circumstances and probably location. We’ll never know.

[MiserereNobis]

29 minutes ago, halconero said:

FWIW, President Nelson added another comment regarding immigration a couple days ago:

"On immigration, President Nelson said, 'We teach that we should build projects of cooperation instead of fences of opposition,' adding, 'I don't like fences.'"

 

This is reminiscent of what Pope Francis said:

Quote

 

Speaking at his weekly general audience, Francis spoke of a Christian calling “to not raise walls but bridges, to not respond to evil with evil, to overcome evil with good.” 

He then improvised and added: “A Christian can never say ‘I’ll make you pay for that’. Never! That is not a Christian gesture. An offense is overcome with forgiveness, by living in peace with everyone.”

 

 

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

I do wonder how many who are hyper concerned about undocumented immigrants have actually rubbed shoulders with significant numbers of those they’re talking about. From most i’ve known who have a bone to pick, hold several fear-oriented beliefs, and want limited immigration,  often have little real connections or friends with said populations (not always, but quite often). It may be someone they see, but don’t really have close interactions with. And even when they are in common communication, are unlikely to have real in-depth conversations to understand their perspectives and concerns as undocumented immigrants.  

And fear grows best with the unknown and unseen experience.

 

Are you addressing this to me? I hope not. If you are, you are sadly mistaken.

May I assuage your doubts? For two years, I rubbed shoulders with thousands of Hondurans, Nicaraguans, Costa Ricans, and a considerable number of Guatemalans, Panamanians, El Salvadorans, and Mexicans. I ate with them, visited them in their homes rich and poor, travelled daily with them, sat next to them on busses and churches, rode on top of their vans and beer trucks, blessed them, got blessed by them, took photos with them, laughed and cried with them, played my violin for them, taught them, was taught by them, sang with them, cried with them, worked with them, got sick with them...in their language.

I have been in Anastasio Somoza’s palace and in the tiny filthy cardboard shack of a Honduran family of eight, in the home of a Honduran Supreme Court Judge, in the homes of middle class workers and poor tailors and washerwomen. I have heard Sandinista rifle fire in the mountains and opera in a beautiful opera house. I have flipped bottle caps for dozens of kids, debated their priests, pastors, and college students, visited orphanages and schools, been threatened with guns, rocks, and machetes, cooked dinner for them, gone on trips with them, given coins to the most hideously deformed beggars. I also witnessed the transformative miracles come into the lives of those who accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Although I met some very bad people, I neither fear the immigrants or wish them ill. On the contrary, I love them dearly. It breaks my heart that 50 years later so many are still dirt poor. 

More recently, I have had a considerable number of immigrant students (Latino, Asian, and Russian) in my school orchestras.

My bone to pick is with those who are using them up for their own purposes including those in this country who are using them for their own selfish political ends, but especially those who are organizing, exploiting, and abusing them on these inhumane treks. This irritates the heck out of me.

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Danzo]

46 minutes ago, smac97 said:

That is true when illegal immigrants use an ITIN.  But when they steal an SSN, then that's a different story.  See, e.g., here:

Thanks,

-Smac

If an immigrant is using a false social security number to work, the immigrant files with the ITIN number that they have. They also report any false social security number(s) that they use for work on their tax returns. (required for electronic transmittal, a copy of the W2 with the false social security number is required for paper filing).

"Tax returns filed with an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number reporting wages paid are required to show the Social Security Number under which the wages were earned."

When filing electronically, the IRS computer does a check to make sure the name matches the social security number (or ITIN number).  If the name doesn't match, the return does not get processed, making it difficult to file a tax return under a made up social security number. 

Unless the person filing is successful in completely successful in impersonating another person (Name, social security number, DOB, Information returns) they would not be able get tax credits or refunds on their tax returns that they were not otherwise entitled to under the law. 

 

 

 

 

[Danzo]

43 minutes ago, Vance said:

You can't use the law to deny entrance into the US of anyone who wants to come here,  because,  JESUS!!! 

You don't need to curse. I was just quoting the law that you claim to support. 

 

[Danzo]

41 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

No. By my logic it is absurd to assert he would have committed the same crime whether he were legally admitted or not. First, there is no way to prove such a thing, and second, being a legal immigrant probably would have put into motion events that could reasonably be assumed to put him in different circumstances and probably location. We’ll never know.

You are right  it is absurd.

His legal status is irrelevant to his drunk driving.

Just like the legal status of every other drunk driver is irrelevant to his or her drunk driving.

Just like the legal status of every victim of drunk driving is irrelevant. 

Or maybe deportation should be the punishment for drunk driving for everyone (should reverse the flow of immigration pretty quickly)

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Vance said:

Those poor caravan folks are now making demands.

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/10/30/now-caravan-demanding-transportation/

I guess we have to buckle under to their latest demands,  because,         Jesus.

 

 

I did not know you lived in Mexico.