The right of the firstborn

[theplains]

This passage seems a little confusing so I have a few questions based on its meaning.

Abraham 1:3 says, "It [the priesthood] was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers,
from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the
present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers
unto me."

Is priesthood the right of the firstborn or is this passage talking about two different things (the priesthood +
the right of the firstborn)?

If these are two separate things, what is the right of the firstborn?

If they are the same things, why is the priesthood a right not available to the second or third born sons?  In
the Book of Mormon, why are priests ordained regardless of whether they are the firstborn of their father or
not (Mosiah 11:4-5)?

Thanks,
Jim

[JLHPROF]

It's both.  The right of the Firstborn refers to a specific type of priesthood.  But not all priesthood orders operate under the same patterns.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

This passage seems a little confusing so I have a few questions based on its meaning.

Abraham 1:3 says, "It [the priesthood] was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers,
from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the
present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers
unto me."

Is priesthood the right of the firstborn or is this passage talking about two different things (the priesthood +
the right of the firstborn)?

If these are two separate things, what is the right of the firstborn?

If they are the same things, why is the priesthood a right not available to the second or third born sons?  In
the Book of Mormon, why are priests ordained regardless of whether they are the firstborn of their father or
not (Mosiah 11:4-5)?

Thanks,
Jim

Remember that Christ did away with the old covenant, and partially this is what Abraham was talking about here I think, remember it is two things, I agree with jlhprof 

But there is another part which is deep Doctrine, and is to be studied and learn through the spirit. These are some good sources for a start in that Pursuit.

Remember also that Christ was the Firstborn so the Church of the Firstborn is the Church of Christ.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/triple-index/church-of-the-firstborn?lang=eng

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by mfbukowski

[JLHPROF]

7 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Remember also that Christ was the Firstborn so the Church of the Firstborn is the Church of Christ.

Except here Abraham specifies that the rights of the firstborn specifically refer to Adam and the Patriachal priesthood keys he passed down.

"It [the priesthood] was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers,".

"even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam"

 Joseph's discourse on the three orders of priesthood is the best starting point for this topic.

[Maidservant]

A template I have noted in the scriptures that adds to this picture and requires more than a surface conclusion is that many of the scripture narratives show a second son receiving, or sometimes practically taking, the firstborn right.  Isaac, Jacob/Israel, Moses, Joseph, Ephraim, Nephi even (fourth son).  Any others?  Perhaps Mahonri Moriancumr, although he seemed to work with his brother, but he held the right. Perhaps Joseph Smith, Jr.  also working with his older brother.  Perhaps the Lehi, Nephi brothers later in the Book of Mormon, if I recall the younger seemed to lead the way.

 

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

"even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam"

When I read this phrase, I am struck that it contains much more meaning than simply a historical one i.e. referred to by saying who may have had it first on this planet.  At first I read that the right of the firstborn, or the right of the first man [Adam].  Which is intriguing to me, and I don't yet know what means.  Is Abraham any Adam?  It seems so in some way.

I also have the thought that when a man is firstborn, he is firstborn to his mother.  A man is technically not born to his father (rather, begat by his father).  In some of the above templates (not all), the one who received the right was firstborn to the mother (Isaac, Joseph) although not to the father.  I am also put in mind in Genesis where the 'seed of the woman' (man not mentioned) is that which will bruise the serpent's head.

Also keep in mind that the Church of the Firstborn (not sure the entire connection if any) contains women, so there is that.  They have the right to the same inheritance, by means which is very clear in the Doctrine and Covenants 76, and also I think there are some verses in the Book of Mormon that may have a bearing upon an understanding as well (Mosiah 5:7; Mosiah 27:25; Ether 3:14; Alma 13:2,9 and keeping in mind that in this very reading in Alma there is the indication in mirror that there is a corresponding, complementary, similar, and full redemption and order for women as well).  Not to mention that Abraham in claiming this right, was not referring to his earthly father at all.  And that all men (and women) may claim this right, as you say, you do not literally have to be the first child (or son) in your particular family.  Curioser and curioser.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Maidservant

[mfbukowski]

5 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

A template I have noted in the scriptures that adds to this picture and requires more than a surface conclusion is that many of the scripture narratives show a second son receiving, or sometimes practically taking, the firstborn right.  Isaac,  Jacob/Israel, Moses, Joseph, Ephraim, Nephi even (fourth son).  Any others?  Perhaps Mahonri Moriancumr, although he seemed to work with his brother, but he held the right.

 

When I read this phrase, I am struck that it contains much more meaning than simply a historical one i.e. referred to by saying who may have had it first on this planet.  At first I read that the right of the firstborn, or the right of the first man [Adam].  Which is intriguing to me, and I don't yet know what means.  Is Abraham any Adam?  It seems so in some way.

I also have the thought that when a man is firstborn, he is firstborn to his mother.  A man is technically not born to his father (rather, begat by his father).  In some of the above templates (not all), the one who received the right was firstborn to the mother (Isaac, Joseph) although not to the father.  I am also put in mind in Genesis where the 'seed of the woman' (man not mentioned) that will bruise the serpent's head.

Also keep in mind that the Church of the Firstborn (not sure the entire connection if any) contains women, so there is that.  They have the right to the same inheritance, by means which is very clear in both the Doctrine and Covenants 76, and also I think there some verses in the Book of Mormon may have a bearing upon an understanding as well (Mosiah 5:7; Mosiah 27:25; Ether 3:14; Alma 13:2,9 and keeping in mind that there is a corresponding, complementary, similar, and full redemption and order for women as well).  Not to mention that Abraham in claiming this right, was not referring to his earthly father at all.  And that all men (and women) may claim this right, as you say, you do not literally have to be the first child (or son) in your particular family.  Curioser and curioser.

No, I agree. I just think it's layer upon layer of symbols.

One might say that Abraham was the Adam of Covenants.

[CV75]

16 hours ago, theplains said:

This passage seems a little confusing so I have a few questions based on its meaning.

Abraham 1:3 says, "It [the priesthood] was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers,
from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the
present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers
unto me."

Is priesthood the right of the firstborn or is this passage talking about two different things (the priesthood +
the right of the firstborn)?

If these are two separate things, what is the right of the firstborn?

If they are the same things, why is the priesthood a right not available to the second or third born sons?  In
the Book of Mormon, why are priests ordained regardless of whether they are the firstborn of their father or
not (Mosiah 11:4-5)?

Thanks,
Jim

The power of God is delegated to man through various means befitting the dispensation. Only Christ the Firstborn has the right to delegate and confer this power, at which point men have the right to exercise it. Adam was the first man to exercise it in the earth (after the Lord gave him he right). He conferred it, and he right to exercise it, to others through one mechanism (father-to-son for one order; others through another order); Moses and Aaron transmitted it through other orders; the Nephites through another order, each according to the terms of their dispensation.

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

Only Christ the Firstborn has the right to delegate and confer this power, at which point men have the right to exercise it. Adam was the first man to exercise it in the earth (after the Lord gave him he right). 

Not sure that I agree with this.

According to my understanding of dispensations and restoration of priesthood it is never restored to the earth by a spirit, always by a physical being (laying on of hands being the sign).

Whoever provided the mortal Adam with priesthood authority I don't believe it was the premortal spirit body of Christ.

[CV75]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Not sure that I agree with this.

According to my understanding of dispensations and restoration of priesthood it is never restored to the earth by a spirit, always by a physical being (laying on of hands being the sign).

Whoever provided the mortal Adam with priesthood authority I don't believe it was the premortal spirit body of Christ.

I’m using the term dispensation liberally – for example each of the latter-day prophets have a “dispensation” within the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. Moses and Jethro each had a dispensation.

While the power of God is typically conveyed by the laying on of hands, the Spirit sometimes performs such administrative functions in behalf of Him who has a body (see Moses 6: 64-68; and 3 Nephi 9:20 in reference to Helaman 5: 44-48).