Former Bishop Hunger Strike for Youth Interview Policy Change

[Scott Lloyd]

13 minutes ago, changed said:

 

I think anyone who is a caring and loving human being is reacting - internally or externally - as Sam is - after reading all the stories.

Loving and caring need not entail behaving as he has done.

 

[JAHS]

34 minutes ago, changed said:

 

You can read the stories for yourself here: http://protectldschildren.org/read-the-stories-2/

It started because Sam's own children had very inappropriate interviews.  

I have tried reading several of those stories and I can't help but get the feeling they are greatly embellishing the experiences and feelings to make them sound worse than they were.
Also the word "snowflake" comes to mind. I remember having a lot of similar interviews and felt no trauma whatsoever; just a resolve to do and be the best I can be.
I know many people are different with different personalities and levels of sensitivities to such things so I don't discount the fact that a few of them may be sincere in thier feelings about it.
A Bishop mostly just knows what he is suposed to talk about in those interviews and it's hard to know how each individual is going to respond to it.
The questions have to be asked though to prevent unworthy members from entering the Temple or going on missions.
I think the parents need to take more responsibility to prepare their children and talk to them about these things before they go into these interviews.

Edited September 1, 2018 by JAHS

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, changed said:

 

Kids who are not baptized cannot participate in quite a few of the youth activities though - cannot attend temple trips, every lesson on baptism could feel like being stabbed in the heart - every sacrament meeting where they are not really "renewing their covenants" - the church is soooo centered on baptism that it would be very hard to feel like you were part of a group, to feel accepted, and not excluded for anyone who was not baptized.  

And for that reason, extra care should be taken in such circumstances to see that the child understands the issue and that if he/she remains faithful, the time will come when he/she may enjoy all the blessings of baptism. I think it's quite possible to reason with a child in this manner so that he/she understands.

Quote

You are correct - anyone who wants to come to Christ can - no official baptism needed for anyone.  

This (bolded portion) is not what I'm saying. Anyone who has reached the age of accountability and whose circumstances permit it ought to be baptized. Baptism by one having authority is most definitely needed eventually -- for everyone.

That said, coming unto Christ does not just mean being baptized. That is the culmination (or rather, the entering in at the gate), but coming unto Christ is a process that begins well before the baptism occurs. That it occurs a bit later in life for some than for others does not negate the necessity of it.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

23 minutes ago, changed said:

 

I was actually snuck away and "sprinkled" in a Catholic church by a grandmother without parental consent when I was little.  Everyone laughs about it now...  I do respect the rights of legal guardians to decide which organizations to support and allow their children to support.  It is wrong for any organization to target youth with any agendas - youth need someone older and wiser with the youth's best interests in mind to direct and guide.  

So your "forbid them not" attitude is not absolute. You do recognize the right of some to deny children baptism, namely parents or guardians. At least with the Church, it is not a permanent denial -- the intent is that baptism eventually will be allowed for them. In the case of the antagonistic parent or guardian, that is not the intent.

 

[MiserereNobis]

22 hours ago, changed said:

 I think any child should be allowed to be baptized if their legal guardians do not oppose it.  Forbid them not, for such is the kingdom of God...

Ya'll already forbid the children until they are 8 years old... I think you should come back to infant baptisms if you really want to follow Christ  

[MiserereNobis]

38 minutes ago, changed said:

I was actually snuck away and "sprinkled" in a Catholic church by a grandmother without parental consent when I was little.

You know, she could have just done it herself at home. In Catholicism, priesthood is not necessary for baptisms to be valid, which is why protestant baptisms are accepted.

I've heard similar stories, but it's usually the grandparents just doing it at their house. I think it's lame if it is going against parental consent. I'm glad your family is able to laugh at it now.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, changed said:

 

You can read the stories for yourself here: http://protectldschildren.org/read-the-stories-2/

It started because Sam's own children had very inappropriate interviews.  

Reading them unfortunately doesn't demonstrate the accuracy of those that are anonymous or undocumented elsewhere.

The vast majority may very well be true, but how would you suggest we determine that?

At least one person has claimed he submitted a number of false reports to test the vetting process and he said there was none.  I understand his curiosity, but don't approve of his method, especially if he doesn't remove them.  I have no doubt there are truthful reports on the site and knowingly listing false reports is very disrespectful to them.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Ya'll already forbid the children until they are 8 years old... I think you should come back to infant baptisms if you really want to follow Christ  

It's a question of baptism by one having authority.  😉

[changed]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Reading them unfortunately doesn't demonstrate the accuracy of those that are anonymous or undocumented elsewhere.

The vast majority may very well be true, but how would you suggest we determine that?

At least one person has claimed he submitted a number of false reports to test the vetting process and he said there was none.  I understand his curiosity, but don't approve of his method, especially if he doesn't remove them.  I have no doubt there are truthful reports on the site and knowingly listing false reports is very disrespectful to them.

Jeremiah Scott / Franklin Curtis; bishop Timothy McCleve / bishop Lon Kennard, Sr. ; bishop Todd Michael Edwards ; bishop Michael Wayne Coleman ; bishop Erik Hughes; Darran Scott ; Joseph Bishop ; .... you can google any of those names (I am not including the name of the HP we recently prosecuted in this list)  There are plenty of examples of bishops who have been convicted for molesting children in their wards.... Even one case would be enough.  

Kids are being abused.  I have seen it myself.  The problem is real and needs to be dealt with.

 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, changed said:

Jeremiah Scott / Franklin Curtis; bishop Timothy McCleve / bishop Lon Kennard, Sr. ; bishop Todd Michael Edwards ; bishop Michael Wayne Coleman ; bishop Erik Hughes; Darran Scott ; Joseph Bishop ; .... you can google any of those names (I am not including the name of the HP we recently prosecuted in this list)  There are plenty of examples of bishops who have been convicted for molesting children in their wards.... Even one case would be enough.  

Kids are being abused.  I have seen it myself.  The problem is real and needs to be dealt with.

 

And those are the ones we know about.

[ttribe]

6 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I find it strange that some want us to just shut off our brains and never draw any conclusions from what we see

I assume that little cheap shot was aimed at me, and nothing could be further from the truth. 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, changed said:

Jeremiah Scott / Franklin Curtis; bishop Timothy McCleve / bishop Lon Kennard, Sr. ; bishop Todd Michael Edwards ; bishop Michael Wayne Coleman ; bishop Erik Hughes; Darran Scott ; Joseph Bishop ; .... you can google any of those names (I am not including the name of the HP we recently prosecuted in this list)  There are plenty of examples of bishops who have been convicted for molesting children in their wards.... Even one case would be enough.  

Kids are being abused.  I have seen it myself.  The problem is real and needs to be dealt with.

 

I have never even hinted that kids are not being abused.

I am only saying Sam Young's site can not give us an accurate picture of numbers because he does not vet for accuracy.

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, JAHS said:

I have tried reading several of those stories and I can't help but get the feeling they are greatly embellishing the experiences and feelings to make them sound worse than they were.
Also the word "snowflake" comes to mind. I remember having a lot of similar interviews and felt no trauma whatsoever; just a resolve to do and be the best I can be.
I know many people are different with different personalities and levels of sensitivities to such things so I don't discount the fact that a few of them may be sincere in thier feelings about it.
A Bishop mostly just knows what he is suposed to talk about in those interviews and it's hard to know how each individual is going to respond to it.
The questions have to be asked though to prevent unworthy members from entering the Temple or going on missions.
I think the parents need to take more responsibility to prepare their children and talk to them about these things before they go into these interviews.

You may or may not be right, but what these interviews have caused is a lot of unnecessary guilt, that follows some people the rest of their lives.

[Rising_Darkness]

17 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

You may or may not be right, but what these interviews have caused is a lot of unnecessary guilt, that follows some people the rest of their lives.

So what should be done, in your opinion?

And if interviews continue, at what age should your spiritual leader (bishop) be asking more questions in regards to one’s “worthiness” to enter into the House of the Lord (because that’s what it is)?

And can you expound upon “unnecessary guilt” please?  (Keep in mind that “shame” and “guilt” are two completely different things, while you explain this “unnecessary” part).

 

 

[JAHS]

57 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

You may or may not be right, but what these interviews have caused is a lot of unnecessary guilt, that follows some people the rest of their lives.

But it is not unnecessary guilt if they are committing the sin. If they are not then there is no guilt. Everyone sins so everyone has some guilt that they carry with them from time to time their whole lives. The trick is to repent and to not give up on yourself or on God.

[smac97]

15 hours ago, changed said:

Jeremiah Scott / Franklin Curtis; 

Jeremiah Scott was abused by Franklin Curtis when his (Scott's) parents took the then-elderly Curtis into their home and let him share a bed with the then 11-year-old Scott, which resulted in abuse.

Franklin Curtis was never a bishop.  How would eliminating bishop interviews, as Sam Young is demanding, have stopped Mr. Curtis?

Quote

bishop Timothy McCleve

 

Timothy McCleve abused his victims in their own home:

"Because he brought candy, let them play on his laptop games he brought into the house. He put some games on my computer. You know, got them busy doing fun things," the alleged victims' father spoke to 2 News on condition of anonymity.

 

The girls' father says it went beyond computer games to physical contact, "He would wrestle with them; let them climb all over him. Just having a fun time."

And here:

McCleve was sentenced Wednesday to a pair of one-to-15 year prison terms after pleading guilty to two counts of sexual abuse of a child, a second-degree felony. McCleve was the former bishop of the Harrisville LDS Church ward that the girls he sexually abused attended. Police said he would often stop by their home while their parents were away.

I could not find any allegations that any abuse occurred in relation to Mr. McCleve conducting chaperoned interviews in his office in the church building.  How would eliminating bishop interviews have stopped Mr. McCleve?

Quote

bishop Lon Kennard, Sr.; 

Mr. Kennard sexually abused his adopted daughters in their home.  I could not find any allegations that any abuse occurred in relation to Mr. Kennard conducting chaperoned interviews in his office in the church building.  How would eliminating bishop interviews have stopped Mr. Kennard?

Quote

bishop Todd Michael Edwards; 

Todd Michell Edwards was convicted based on sexual misconduct with teenage girls that took place either at his home or in his car.   How would eliminating bishop interviews have stopped Mr. Edwards?

Quote

bishop Michael Wayne Coleman; 

The charges against Michael Wayne Coleman pertain to "elicit sexual conversations on the internet," apparently involving youths he met through his job as an exchange student coordinator (see here and here).   I could not find any allegations that any abuse occurred in relation to Mr. Coleman conducting chaperoned interviews in his office in the church building.  How would eliminating bishop interviews have stopped Mr. Coleman? 

I also could not find any news articles about Mr. Coleman actually being convicted of any criminal misconduct.

Quote

bishop Erik Hughes; 

Yes, this man did some horrible things.  

Quote

Darran Scott; 

As I understand it, Darran Scott was never a bishop.

Quote

Joseph Bishop;

Joseph Bishop appears to have abused McKenna Denson in some way.  And he apparently did so by isolating her and not having any chaperone nearby, which would be a violation of today's church guidelines.

Quote

.... you can google any of those names (I am not including the name of the HP we recently prosecuted in this list)  There are plenty of examples of bishops who have been convicted for molesting children in their wards.... Even one case would be enough.  

"Would be enough" for what?

Quote

Kids are being abused.  I have seen it myself.  The problem is real and needs to be dealt with.

The "Big List" fallacy is not, I think, the best argument here.

By way of example, here's my own "Big List":

Abbie Jane Swogger; Abigail Holloway; Adrienne Laflamme; Adrienne Laflamme; Alexandria Vera; Alison Mosbeck; Alison Peck; Allenna Ward; Amanda Athey; Amber Jennings; Amber Marshall; Amira Sa’Di; Amy Beck; Amy Bramhall; Amy Elder; Amy Elder; Amy Lilley; Amy McElhenny; Amy N. Miller; Amy Northcutt; Amy Yarbrough; Andrea Fox; Andrea Martinez; Andrea Martinez; Angela Christine Coffey; Angela Comer; Angela Palmer; Angela Stellwag; Anna Bettencourt; Anne Knopf; April Watson; Ashley Hall; Ashley Flores; Autumn Leathers; Barbara Anderson; Becci Hill; Beth Ann Chester; Beth Raymond; Beth Shepherd; Bethany Sherrill; Brandy Lynn Gonzales; Brenda Baillargeon; Brenda Osborne; Bridgett Szychulski; Brittni Colleps; Cameo Patch; Carmen Brown; Carol Flannigan; Carrie McCandless; Carrie O’Conner; Cathy Heminghaus; Celeste Emerick; Chandra Franks; Christel C. Gravlin; Christie Elliot; Christina Gallagher; Christina Oliver; Christine Duda; Christine Scarlett; Christine Jouini; Christine McCallum; Christine Spaich; Christy Anne Brown; Christy Martin; Claire Richards; Courtney Bowles; Courtney Jarrell; Cris Morris; Crissy Hisey; Crystal Wells; Cynthia Horvath; Danielle Jones; Danielle Watkins; Darcie Esson; Dawn Welter; Deanna Bobo; Deborah Reeder; Debra LaFave; Denise Keesee; Diana Canter; Donna Washburne; Dorothy Dixon; Elisa Martinelli; Elisha Kingsley; Elizabeth Livesay; Elizabeth Miklosovic; Elizabeth Munn; Elizabeth Stow; Ellen Garfield; Ellen Niemiec; Emily Elizabeth Housley; Emily Morris; Erica Baker; Erica Rutters; Erica Umosella; Erin McLean; Erin Queen; Ethel Anderson; Franca and Antonia Munoz-Juvera; Gail E. Gagne; Gay Lyn Turley; Georgianne Harrell; Gina Marie Watring; Gwen Cardozo; Haven Kirkpatrick; Heather Lea Burroughs; Heather Ingram; Heather Kennedy; Heather Thorsby; Heather Lynne Zeo; Hope Jacoby; Hope Johns; Jacquelyn Faith Garrison; Jamie Armstrong; Jamie Waite; Janelle Batkins; Janelle Bird; Janet Hughes; Janet Parker; Jaymee Wallace; Jennifer Cisco; Jennifer Dempsey; Jennifer Dorland; Jennifer Espinosa; Jennifer Mally; Jennifer Rice; Jennifer Tarkenton; Jennifer Whiting; Jessica Bailey Wishnask; Joan Marie Sladky; Jodi Church; Julia Lund; Julie A. Denno; Julie Pritchett; Kalyn Thompson; Kalyn Darby Thompson; Kandace Christopher; Kanesa Hopkins; Karen Patton; Karen Robbins; Kasey Johnes; Katherine J. Harder; Katherine Hicks; Katherine Tew; Kathy White; Katie Cross; Katryna Martin; Kellie Ann Cormican; Christina Oliver; Kelly Ann Garcia; Kelly Dalecki; Kelsey Peterson; Kenzi Friday; Kesha D. Manuel; Kimberly Lynch; Kinsley Wentzky; Kirsten Kinley; Kristen Margrif; Kristi Oakes; Kristy Sanchez-Trujillo; Kristyn Breeds; Lakina Stutts; Laura Lynn Findlay; Laura Pace; Lauren Cosgrove; Lauren Harrington-Cooper; Leslie Baird; Linda Hardan; Linda Nef; Linda Pithyou; Lindsay Massaro; Lisa Lavoie; Lisa Robyn Marinelli; Lynn Saunders; Marcie L. Rousseau; Marcy R. Fisher; Margaret De Barraicua; Maria Guzman Hernandez; Maria Saco; Mariella Brenlla; Marla Gurecki-Haskins; Mary Jo Spack; Mary Kay Letourneau; Megan Mahoney; Megan Sainsbury; Megan Snipes; Melinda Deluca; Melinda Dennehy; Melissa Andreini; Melissa Bare; Melissa Chase; Melissa Deel; Melissa Diana Koeh; Melissa Lavender; Melissa Dawn McCord; Melissa Moss; Melissa Snow; Melissa Weber; Meredith Hollen; Meredith Kane; Michelle Farley; Michelle Kush; Michelle Morano; Michelle VanMeter; Michelle Zulkowsky; Natalie Fraxedas; Natasha Sizow; Nicole Barnhart; Nicole Dufault; Nicole Kurowski; Nicole Long; Nicole Pomerleau; Pamela Balogh; Pamela Diehl-Moore; Pamela Smart; Pamela Rogers Turner; Rachel Burkhart; Rachel Holt; Rachelle Heenan; Rachelle Vantucci; Rebecca Boicelli; Rebecca Becker and Maria Zurita; Rebecca Bogard; Rebecca Ann Bramlett; Rebecca Lee Kelley; Rebecca Noonan; Rebekah Todd; Rebecca Robertson-Shaffer; Regina McKay; Rhianna Ellis; Rita Brum; Robin Gialanella; Robin Winkis; Rosanna Encinas Brown; Samantha Solomon; Sandra Binkley; Sandra Borrego; Sandra “Beth” Geisel; Sarah Bridges; Sarah Joel; Sarah Raymo; Sarah L. Tolzien; Shannon Best; Shannon Herring; Shannon Young; Sharon Rutherford; Shebana Rajput; Shelley Allen; Sheila Vazquez; Sheral Smith; Sherry Brians; Sheryl A. Namahine; Stacy Hopkins; Stephanie Adams; Stephanie Burleson; Stephanie Giambelluca; Stephanie Diane Harris; Stephanie Ragusa; Stephanie Seabury; Stephanie Ann Stein; Stephanie Jo Walters; Summer Hansen; Susan Clickner; Tabitha Adams; Tamara Ryman; Tara Driscoll; Tawni Wimberley; Teresa Engelbach; Tina Mason; Toni Allexy; Toni Woods; Traci Tapp; Valynne Bowers; Wendie Schweikert; and Yvette Starzyk.

This is a list of female school teachers who have been accused and/or convicted of sexually assaulting minor students.

Where are the marches and protests characterizing all female teachers of as sexual perverts, as threats to children, as sexually and emotionally abusing children and causing them "pain", as "shaming" youth to death and driving them to suicide?  'Cuz that's what Sam Young and his followers have been doing vis-à-vis bishops.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited September 2, 2018 by smac97

[Tacenda]

16 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Jeremiah Scott was abused by Franklin Curtis when his (Scott's) parents took the then-elderly Curtis into their home and let him share a bed with the then 11-year-old Scott, which resulted in abuse.

Franklin Curtis was never a bishop.  How would eliminating bishop interviews, as Sam Young is demanding, have stopped Mr. Curtis?

 

Timothy McCleve abused his victims in their own home:

"Because he brought candy, let them play on his laptop games he brought into the house. He put some games on my computer. You know, got them busy doing fun things," the alleged victims' father spoke to 2 News on condition of anonymity.

 

The girls' father says it went beyond computer games to physical contact, "He would wrestle with them; let them climb all over him. Just having a fun time."

And here:

McCleve was sentenced Wednesday to a pair of one-to-15 year prison terms after pleading guilty to two counts of sexual abuse of a child, a second-degree felony. McCleve was the former bishop of the Harrisville LDS Church ward that the girls he sexually abused attended. Police said he would often stop by their home while their parents were away.

I could not find any allegations that any abuse occurred in relation to Mr. McCleve conducting chaperoned interviews in his office in the church building.  How would eliminating bishop interviews have stopped Mr. McCleve?

Mr. Kennard sexually abused his adopted daughters in their home.  I could not find any allegations that any abuse occurred in relation to Mr. Kennard conducting chaperoned interviews in his office in the church building.  How would eliminating bishop interviews have stopped Mr. Kennard?

Todd Michell Edwards was convicted based on sexual misconduct with teenage girls that took place either at his home or in his car.   How would eliminating bishop interviews have stopped Mr. Edwards?

The charges against Michael Wayne Coleman pertain to "elicit sexual conversations on the internet," apparently involving youths he met through his job as an exchange student coordinator (see here and here).   I could not find any allegations that any abuse occurred in relation to Mr. Coleman conducting chaperoned interviews in his office in the church building.  How would eliminating bishop interviews have stopped Mr. Coleman? 

I also could not find any news articles about Mr. Coleman actually being convicted of any criminal misconduct.

Yes, this man did some horrible things.  

As I understand it, Darran Scott was never a bishop.

Joseph Bishop appears to have abused McKenna Denson in some way.  And he apparently did so by isolating her and not having any chaperone nearby, which would be a violation of today's church guidelines.

"Would be enough" for what?

The "Big List" fallacy is not, I think, the best argument here.

By way of example, here's my own "Big List":

Abbie Jane Swogger; Abigail Holloway; Adrienne Laflamme; Adrienne Laflamme; Alexandria Vera; Alison Mosbeck; Alison Peck; Allenna Ward; Amanda Athey; Amber Jennings; Amber Marshall; Amira Sa’Di; Amy Beck; Amy Bramhall; Amy Elder; Amy Elder; Amy Lilley; Amy McElhenny; Amy N. Miller; Amy Northcutt; Amy Yarbrough; Andrea Fox; Andrea Martinez; Andrea Martinez; Angela Christine Coffey; Angela Comer; Angela Palmer; Angela Stellwag; Anna Bettencourt; Anne Knopf; April Watson; Ashley Hall; Ashley Flores; Autumn Leathers; Barbara Anderson; Becci Hill; Beth Ann Chester; Beth Raymond; Beth Shepherd; Bethany Sherrill; Brandy Lynn Gonzales; Brenda Baillargeon; Brenda Osborne; Bridgett Szychulski; Brittni Colleps; Cameo Patch; Carmen Brown; Carol Flannigan; Carrie McCandless; Carrie O’Conner; Cathy Heminghaus; Celeste Emerick; Chandra Franks; Christel C. Gravlin; Christie Elliot; Christina Gallagher; Christina Oliver; Christine Duda; Christine Scarlett; Christine Jouini; Christine McCallum; Christine Spaich; Christy Anne Brown; Christy Martin; Claire Richards; Courtney Bowles; Courtney Jarrell; Cris Morris; Crissy Hisey; Crystal Wells; Cynthia Horvath; Danielle Jones; Danielle Watkins; Darcie Esson; Dawn Welter; Deanna Bobo; Deborah Reeder; Debra LaFave; Denise Keesee; Diana Canter; Donna Washburne; Dorothy Dixon; Elisa Martinelli; Elisha Kingsley; Elizabeth Livesay; Elizabeth Miklosovic; Elizabeth Munn; Elizabeth Stow; Ellen Garfield; Ellen Niemiec; Emily Elizabeth Housley; Emily Morris; Erica Baker; Erica Rutters; Erica Umosella; Erin McLean; Erin Queen; Ethel Anderson; Franca and Antonia Munoz-Juvera; Gail E. Gagne; Gay Lyn Turley; Georgianne Harrell; Gina Marie Watring; Gwen Cardozo; Haven Kirkpatrick; Heather Lea Burroughs; Heather Ingram; Heather Kennedy; Heather Thorsby; Heather Lynne Zeo; Hope Jacoby; Hope Johns; Jacquelyn Faith Garrison; Jamie Armstrong; Jamie Waite; Janelle Batkins; Janelle Bird; Janet Hughes; Janet Parker; Jaymee Wallace; Jennifer Cisco; Jennifer Dempsey; Jennifer Dorland; Jennifer Espinosa; Jennifer Mally; Jennifer Rice; Jennifer Tarkenton; Jennifer Whiting; Jessica Bailey Wishnask; Joan Marie Sladky; Jodi Church; Julia Lund; Julie A. Denno; Julie Pritchett; Kalyn Thompson; Kalyn Darby Thompson; Kandace Christopher; Kanesa Hopkins; Karen Patton; Karen Robbins; Kasey Johnes; Katherine J. Harder; Katherine Hicks; Katherine Tew; Kathy White; Katie Cross; Katryna Martin; Kellie Ann Cormican; Christina Oliver; Kelly Ann Garcia; Kelly Dalecki; Kelsey Peterson; Kenzi Friday; Kesha D. Manuel; Kimberly Lynch; Kinsley Wentzky; Kirsten Kinley; Kristen Margrif; Kristi Oakes; Kristy Sanchez-Trujillo; Kristyn Breeds; Lakina Stutts; Laura Lynn Findlay; Laura Pace; Lauren Cosgrove; Lauren Harrington-Cooper; Leslie Baird; Linda Hardan; Linda Nef; Linda Pithyou; Lindsay Massaro; Lisa Lavoie; Lisa Robyn Marinelli; Lynn Saunders; Marcie L. Rousseau; Marcy R. Fisher; Margaret De Barraicua; Maria Guzman Hernandez; Maria Saco; Mariella Brenlla; Marla Gurecki-Haskins; Mary Jo Spack; Mary Kay Letourneau; Megan Mahoney; Megan Sainsbury; Megan Snipes; Melinda Deluca; Melinda Dennehy; Melissa Andreini; Melissa Bare; Melissa Chase; Melissa Deel; Melissa Diana Koeh; Melissa Lavender; Melissa Dawn McCord; Melissa Moss; Melissa Snow; Melissa Weber; Meredith Hollen; Meredith Kane; Michelle Farley; Michelle Kush; Michelle Morano; Michelle VanMeter; Michelle Zulkowsky; Natalie Fraxedas; Natasha Sizow; Nicole Barnhart; Nicole Dufault; Nicole Kurowski; Nicole Long; Nicole Pomerleau; Pamela Balogh; Pamela Diehl-Moore; Pamela Smart; Pamela Rogers Turner; Rachel Burkhart; Rachel Holt; Rachelle Heenan; Rachelle Vantucci; Rebecca Boicelli; Rebecca Becker and Maria Zurita; Rebecca Bogard; Rebecca Ann Bramlett; Rebecca Lee Kelley; Rebecca Noonan; Rebekah Todd; Rebecca Robertson-Shaffer; Regina McKay; Rhianna Ellis; Rita Brum; Robin Gialanella; Robin Winkis; Rosanna Encinas Brown; Samantha Solomon; Sandra Binkley; Sandra Borrego; Sandra “Beth” Geisel; Sarah Bridges; Sarah Joel; Sarah Raymo; Sarah L. Tolzien; Shannon Best; Shannon Herring; Shannon Young; Sharon Rutherford; Shebana Rajput; Shelley Allen; Sheila Vazquez; Sheral Smith; Sherry Brians; Sheryl A. Namahine; Stacy Hopkins; Stephanie Adams; Stephanie Burleson; Stephanie Giambelluca; Stephanie Diane Harris; Stephanie Ragusa; Stephanie Seabury; Stephanie Ann Stein; Stephanie Jo Walters; Summer Hansen; Susan Clickner; Tabitha Adams; Tamara Ryman; Tara Driscoll; Tawni Wimberley; Teresa Engelbach; Tina Mason; Toni Allexy; Toni Woods; Traci Tapp; Valynne Bowers; Wendie Schweikert; and Yvette Starzyk.

This is a list of female school teachers have been accused and/or convicted of sexually assaulting minor students.

Where are the marches and protests characterizing all female teachers of as sexual perverts, as threats to children, as sexually and emotionally abusing children and causing them "pain", as "shaming" youth to death and driving them to suicide?  'Cuz that's what Sam Young and his followers have been doing vis-à-vis bishops.

Thanks,

-Smac

Holy cow, Smac! How do you get these names, I believe you, mind you. But this is crazy, I can see how people want to home school.

[Hamba Tuhan]

19 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Mr. Young has made more than enough public statements for people to surmise his motives.

Google clearly knows that I've participated in this thread and placed an interview with Sam in my recommended videos on YouTube this afternoon. Some highlights from the bit I listened to:

'The prophets aren't following Jesus. I'm following Jesus'. (Says the man who has posted on his blog that he doesn't know if Jesus is real.)

'I'm right. They're wrong'.

And my favourite: 'Shame kills! Shame kills!' Does this make Jesus (who may or may not be real but who is on Sam's side either way) a murderer of all those whom He shamed by calling them to repentance?

Quote

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

As I've stated before, the end game of all this is to end the teaching of repentance because it necessarily involves 'shame', and, well, shame kills. Logically, this makes bishops, prophets, and the Saviour Himself all guilty of killing others.

Ironically, it also makes Sam, who has openly tried to shame the apostles, into a murderer as well ... though I suspect he feels justified in the shame he's attempting to generate. After all, he's right. They're wrong.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[smac97]

13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Holy cow, Smac! How do you get these names, I believe you, mind you. But this is crazy, I can see how people want to home school.

Here's the link to the source (it's in the previous post too).

[MiserereNobis]

19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Holy cow, Smac! How do you get these names, I believe you, mind you. But this is crazy, I can see how people want to home school.

Ratios and percentages are important. I'm not going to count the number of names on Smac's list, but compare it to the number of teachers. Ratios and percentages. No need to homeschool (especially since family members are the number one abusers of children).

[Tacenda]

48 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Here's the link to the source (it's in the previous post too).

This sickens me. 

[Kenngo1969]

15 hours ago, ttribe said:

Or, maybe I just find motive assumptions in these circumstances to be problematic, at best. 

As Smac97 implies, assumptions, on the one hand, occur in the face of a lack of evidence; by contrast, here, on the other hand, reasonable conclusions are being drawn from available evidence.  True, those conclusions are not set in stone, and additional evidence tending to rebut them may prompt reasonable people to reexamine those conclusions.  However, given Sam Young's own words, many of the conclusions drawn by people in this thread are not unreasonable.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Kenngo1969

[ttribe]

12 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

As Smac97 implies, assumptions, on the one hand, occur in the face of a lack of evidence; by contrast, here, on the other hand, reasonable conclusions are being drawn from available evidence.  True, those conclusions are not set in stone, and additional evidence tending to rebut them may prompt reasonable people to reexamine those conclusions.  However, given Sam Young's own words, many of the conclusions drawn by people in this thread are not unreasonable.

And yet, it is quite frequently the case that evaluation of evidence is colored by bias and preconceived notions that are also types of assumptions.  Despite your effort to sound like the rational one here, you don't seem to have considered or anticipated the counter-arguments.  Overconfidence in formulating an argument is frequently an embarrassing mistake.

[Scott Lloyd]

15 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Google clearly knows that I've participated in this thread and placed an interview with Sam in my recommended videos on YouTube this afternoon. Some highlights from the bit I listened to:

'The prophets aren't following Jesus. I'm following Jesus'. (Says the man who has posted on his blog that he doesn't know if Jesus is real.)

'I'm right. They're wrong'.

And my favourite: 'Shame kills! Shame kills!' Does this make Jesus (who may or may not be real but who is on Sam's side either way) a murderer of all those whom He shamed by calling them to repentance?

As I've stated before, the end game of all this is to end the teaching of repentance because it necessarily involves 'shame', and, well, shame kills. Logically, this makes bishops, prophets, and the Saviour Himself all guilty of killing others.

Ironically, it also makes Sam, who has openly tried to shame the apostles, into a murderer as well ... though I suspect he feels justified in the shame he's attempting to generate. After all, he's right. They're wrong.

It appears that Sam Young is following the pattern of those in recent times who virtue signal about their regard for the Atonement and divine grace and about Church leaders and members not  being "Christlike" and then go on to all but deny the historical existence of Jesus Christ. This does not compute.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, ttribe said:

And yet, it is quite frequently the case that evaluation of evidence is colored by bias and preconceived notions that are also types of assumptions.  Despite your effort to sound like the rational one here, you don't seem to have considered or anticipated the counter-arguments.  Overconfidence in formulating an argument is frequently an embarrassing mistake.

On the contrary, Kenngo appears to me to have given the matter a lot of thought.