Stargazer Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) On 7/24/2018 at 3:27 PM, bluebell said: I just started reading the book last night and her family is crazy! Can't be any crazier than the family of SF author Marion Zimmer Bradley. I read the autobiography of her daughter, Moira, "The Last Closet", and it was horrifying in many ways. Oddly enough, in the last chapter Moira mentioned a friend who had had a bad childhood, too, and was dismayed to find she had joined the LDS church -- I guess because Moira has a negative opinion of the church -- but since her friend was happy in the church, she didn't feel quite so bad about it. ----------- Oh, great. NOW I realize I'm resurrecting a dead thread... I believe that's called "thread necromancy". I'm sorry! Edited January 12, 2019 by Stargazer 1
Thinking Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) On 1/11/2019 at 7:57 PM, Stargazer said: Oh, great. NOW I realize I'm resurrecting a dead thread... I believe that's called "thread necromancy". I'm sorry! It's only dead if the mods have closed it. This one was "mostly dead." Edited January 13, 2019 by Thinking 2
Stargazer Posted January 14, 2019 Posted January 14, 2019 17 hours ago, Thinking said: It's only dead if the mods have closed it. This one was "mostly dead." "Hello in there!" 1
Kenngo1969 Posted January 14, 2019 Posted January 14, 2019 20 hours ago, Thinking said: It's only dead if the mods have closed it. This one was "mostly dead." 2 hours ago, Stargazer said: "Hello in there!" Stargazer beat me to it: Miracle Max: "It just so happens that your friend here is only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do." Inigo Montoya: "What's that?" Miracle Max: "Go through his clothes and look for loose change." 1
Kenngo1969 Posted January 15, 2019 Posted January 15, 2019 C'mon, people, this thread is only mostly dead, which means its still slightly alive! Let's go! Let's resurrect this puppy the rest of the way, Miracle Maxes and Miracle Maxines!
Visitor Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Hello. I am not a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints, but I have had friends who are members, and I have done a little reading to try to understand the church better. I recently read the book Educated, and I also really enjoyed it. Even without her disclaimer in the beginning I would not have believed her family represented the typical Mormon beliefs. I am a little curious about some of her experiences at Brigham Young University. At one point she described a conversation with another student in which they discussed the belief that a righteous man will have multiple wives in heaven. I am just wondering if this is a real belief shared by most members of the church. I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way. This is just an idea that I have never come across before, and I just wanted to get a better idea of what is real. Thank you for any information you might give me.
Tacenda Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 18 hours ago, Visitor said: Hello. I am not a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints, but I have had friends who are members, and I have done a little reading to try to understand the church better. I recently read the book Educated, and I also really enjoyed it. Even without her disclaimer in the beginning I would not have believed her family represented the typical Mormon beliefs. I am a little curious about some of her experiences at Brigham Young University. At one point she described a conversation with another student in which they discussed the belief that a righteous man will have multiple wives in heaven. I am just wondering if this is a real belief shared by most members of the church. I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way. This is just an idea that I have never come across before, and I just wanted to get a better idea of what is real. Thank you for any information you might give me. In early Mormonism, yes that would be true. But the LDS believe that the current prophet can trump the past one. They believe in ongoing communication from God. So nowadays, polygamy in heaven isn't a given, but in the past the two first prophets made it clear that polygamy in heaven was needed for exaltation. Now, not so much. I am a lifetime LDS, but on the fringe now. Maybe someone who is all in will give a better interpretation. I read "Educated" as well. And you are right in assuming this isn't how most members behave. I was addicted at one time to delving deep into Tara's family, I was shocked at how she grew up. I looked or stalked her mother's FB and a couple of other family members, and saw their family photos at Christmas and elsewhere. Tara may or may not have over exaggerated or didn't and that is how her memory served her. We have all kinds of LDS/Mormons in the faith. Thanks for your comment, I liked this older thread.
Ahab Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 18 hours ago, Visitor said: I am a little curious about some of her experiences at Brigham Young University. At one point she described a conversation with another student in which they discussed the belief that a righteous man will have multiple wives in heaven. I am just wondering if this is a real belief shared by most members of the church. I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way. This is just an idea that I have never come across before, and I just wanted to get a better idea of what is real. Thank you for any information you might give me. I believe there will be some righteous men who will have more than one wife in heaven, but I think that will probably be the exception more than the rule. in the early days of the restored Church some men were married to more than one woman while all were living but now it happens only if the first wife has died and the man then marries another woman. And I'm talking about marriages that have been sealed by the power of the priesthood of God, the authority to bind in heaven what is bound on Earth. Without being sealed by that authority all marriages end at death, even though we do the ordinance work for husbands and wives who did not have that done while they were living. If you really want to know more about this I suggest you contact some missionaries from our Church just so you will know you are hearing from official representatives of our Church. They're usually young and don't know everything but they can get help to answer your questions if they need it. We who share our thoughts on this board are a sample of all of the kinds of people you can encounter in your normal life, and while some of us know more than some others of us any of us could give you some bad information that would not necessarily represent the true teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
phaedrus ut Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 I never noticed this thread when it first came through but I recently finished the book and shortly there after traveled through southern Idaho and saw Bucks Peak and Stokes Market. One observation I would like to make is that about Tara Westover's relationship with the church. It seemed important to her that any negative details about her upbringing shouldn't be a reflection of the Mormon church. I've known quite a few Mormons who, like the author, gained noteworthy academic credentials and for most of them that also meant moving on from Mormonism. Like Tara they are almost protective of the church and avoid criticism among outsiders. Among other former Mormons they feel free to criticize but otherwise treat their former religion with kid gloves. Phaedrus 1
Kenngo1969 Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 Visitor: There will have to be, relatively speaking, very few righteous men in heaven if all of them are to have multiple wives. Color me doubtful. Even relatively few men on Earth since the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ have had multiple wives. (Heck, some of us are still looking for one ... Long-term bachelor here!)
Popular Post alter idem Posted October 28, 2019 Popular Post Posted October 28, 2019 I just finished reading the book "Educated", and saw this thread from a while ago which was resurrected. Tara's family was an example of a small subset of LDS, that some of us may or may not be familiar with. They were survivalists, they rejected Doctors and depended on Energy Healing and Homeopathic treatments. They didn't want their children indoctrinated in the public school system, they worried about women being modest (and this sometimes means promulgating a negative excessive attitude towards controlling women, similar to the FLDS) and the whole family was subservient to the father. In reading the book, I felt her father likely did struggle with mental illness and that pushed him towards extremism. Her mother though, supported her husband fully and when one of the sons was bullying the younger children, both parents refused to see or acknowledge it--instead blaming the victim who, in trying to stop the abuse, which was (as they were likely to view it) threatening the family by calling attention to it. This isn't hard to believe, it happens. But what is unique in her family (and not disputed) is that the mother's business made the family very wealthy and half the children depend on the family business for work (and they have little formal schooling to get any other kind of work) and they are very well known in their community. So, to them, Tara is airing their dirty laundry and that's a traitor/enemy to them. It's likely that in writing she embellished or even misremembered, but I have no reason to think that the memories she shared are anything but truly what she believes. If her parents and some of her siblings are upset, they can write a book to counter and tell their story and maybe make their case for why abuse in the family was ignored. There's no question that the church's teachings were sometimes interpreted and used by her father to control the whole family, and if she lost her faith in the gospel, it's not surprising. It is also sad that they chose to circle the wagons around the one sibling who was abusive and ostracized any who tried to bring it to light. But, as I said, it's not surprising, this family dynamic can mean problems of this nature, IMO. The Book was well worth reading. I hope one day, things will happen in this family that they can come to terms with mistakes that were made and heal their family bonds. 5
RevTestament Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 On 10/14/2019 at 3:02 PM, Visitor said: Hello. I am not a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints, but I have had friends who are members, and I have done a little reading to try to understand the church better. I recently read the book Educated, and I also really enjoyed it. Even without her disclaimer in the beginning I would not have believed her family represented the typical Mormon beliefs. I am a little curious about some of her experiences at Brigham Young University. At one point she described a conversation with another student in which they discussed the belief that a righteous man will have multiple wives in heaven. I am just wondering if this is a real belief shared by most members of the church. I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way. This is just an idea that I have never come across before, and I just wanted to get a better idea of what is real. Thank you for any information you might give me. This was basically a teaching of Brigham Young, which some trace back to Joseph Smith. I have resisted the notion basically since I learned about it because I am essentially a scriptorian, and I believe we have no scripture in our canon to support the belief that one must have more than one temporal marriage to be exalted. I have said before on this site that I will show this belief is not true. I would say that currently most members of the Church do not believe this either, but this is a guess. Do some still believe this? Apparently, and I am fine if they wish to believe it, but I do not. It is not a criterion for exaltation. Nor is having more than one wife a criterion for righteousness. I also believe that this belief has overall been bad for the Church, and has been the cause of unnecessary division and apostasy. I know what critics have said, and at one time(a century ago) it may have had some truth to it, but I believe that currently, this is not a teaching of the Church and is not something most members believe. Indeed. There are conference talks we can point you to which expressly state that entering polygamous marriages is not a criterion for exaltation.
Stargazer Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 On 7/24/2018 at 5:34 PM, jkwilliams said: I'm reminded of a guy I know (though not well at all) from my mission who was extremely upset with me for publishing my book. He said something like, "Yeah, it's just another one of those books where the mission rules are oppressive and stupid and the leaders were all a bunch of idiots, and you followed your conscience to overcome the stupidity." I said, "You haven't read it, have you?" and he confessed he hadn't. He just assumed it was a diatribe against the church and its missionary program. Did he get off his lazy butt and actually read it, then? Reminds me of people who rail against the Book of Mormon without having read it. You can tell him I said so. 🙂 I've said it before, but I'll say it again: your book is a good read, and I found it a valuable contribution.
Calm Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 6 hours ago, Stargazer said: Did he get off his lazy butt and actually read it, then? Reminds me of people who rail against the Book of Mormon without having read it. You can tell him I said so. 🙂 I've said it before, but I'll say it again: your book is a good read, and I found it a valuable contribution. See the date of jkw’s post, he may not respond just in case you didn’t realize
Stargazer Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 31 minutes ago, Calm said: See the date of jkw’s post, he may not respond just in case you didn’t realize Eek. Danged thread necromancy...
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