The cost of being Mormon, and the loss.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Recently on Facebook an issue came up where I was defending comments about someone a prominent figure being a Mormon. Prior to this, many of my posts were about Spiritual matters and my many poems for friends who enjoy them, poems that we often shared. I have often be told what a had   " turned into a mighty man of God ", (which of course is not so) from  friends from High School. When the some in the debate began to ask, "why do you care so much", I replied that, I am a Mormon. The tone of many turned very negative, and in some cases, anger. 

I do not live out West, I live in Georgia when Mormons are a tiny minority. I have (when I still worked) faced a lot of backlash and crude comments, but not as much from friends who knew from the beginning. These recent events have caught me off guard. I wish to ask two questions...

1. Do those who live in areas where Mormonism is the "tiny majority", have you experienced the same?

2. How do you deal with it, or how would you suggest that I react? 

[Storm Rider]

I often laugh at those that say LDS are no longer persecuted and it is all a victim complex that LDS perpetuate. The reality is that LDS are persecuted daily by other Christians - Evangelicals most often.  Your example is evidence of such.  

This has not been a recent experience. I attribute such to either those who know I am LDS or I meet those who just don't know I am LDS and it has yet to come up. Consequently, living in Virginia I live in a diverse community and I don't know of a single Evangelical - their church affiliation (as mine) is unknown.

In the past I have dealt with this type of reaction in a few different ways:  1) when I don't really know the person well I just ignore it while understanding that I may never interact with the individual again,  2) If it is someone I know and will have an ongoing relationship then I attempt to explain in a brief manner LDS beliefs and teachings on the Savior, defining the term Christian in such a way that it does not exclude the early apostles and that we feel comfortable if the statement used is, "The LDS Church is not part of Traditional Christianity, which began in the 4th century."  

I would try to keep my comments limited to my feelings about being a follower, or disciple, of Jesus Christ and how you try to dedicate your life to follow him.  I may talk about treating others as you would want to be treated and apologize if you have ever offended them or caused them to treat you poorly. If it is something they simply cannot get over then you need to understand it is a personal problem they have to deal with; treat them cordially and kindly, and move on.  

[changed]

I have friends/family who are LGBT - I told them to compare LDS to Catholics - Some Catholics believe not getting married is best ( nuns, priests )  does anyone dislike Catholics because some look down at marriage?  .. Christianity is a religion of sacrifice - based on the atonement, of giving things up, thw AbrahamI've  sacrifice is different for everyone but... 

Catholic grandma said "I've heard some strangethings about mormons".. I said "I'veheard some strange things about Catholics"  .. that was the end of that.

Just get involved in the community, don't be preachy, be friendly.

Edited May 25, 2018 by changed

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Recently on Facebook an issue came up where I was defending comments about someone a prominent figure being a Mormon. Prior to this, many of my posts were about Spiritual matters and my many poems for friends who enjoy them, poems that we often shared. I have often be told what a had   " turned into a mighty man of God ", (which of course is not so) from  friends from High School. When the some in the debate began to ask, "why do you care so much", I replied that, I am a Mormon. The tone of many turned very negative, and in some cases, anger. 

I do not live out West, I live in Georgia when Mormons are a tiny minority. I have (when I still worked) faced a lot of backlash and crude comments, but not as much from friends who knew from the beginning. These recent events have caught me off guard. I wish to ask two questions...

1. Do those who live in areas where Mormonism is the "tiny majority", have you experienced the same?

2. How do you deal with it, or how would you suggest that I react? 

There are some good Bible passages on how to react -

Quote

Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not (Romans 12:14).

Quote

But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you (Matt 5:44)

Quote

bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:28).

Quote

Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing (1 Peter 3:9).

Quote

We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly (1 Corinthians 4:12, 13).

Quote

 

Matt 5:

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

Let your light so shine!  That is the best answer ever given!

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

There are some good Bible passages on how to react -

Let your light so shine!  That is the best answer ever given!

Great scriptures, thank you. But my love for these friends has not decreased, their feelings have come into question. Such harsh comments from those I love is difficult. 

[Tacenda]

5 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Great scriptures, thank you. But my love for these friends has not decreased, their feelings have come into question. Such harsh comments from those I love is difficult. 

I would ask point blank why they feel the way they do. Dollars to donuts, it has something to do with LGBT issues. Or for LDS beliefs about becoming Gods, or the blacks in the PH issue. My guesses. Or, they viewed the temple videos going around on youtube. Sorry this happened Papa. Thank goodness they know you and that you are a good reflection of the LDS faith.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, changed said:

I have friends/family who are LGBT - I told them to compare LDS to Catholics - Some Catholics believe not getting married is best ( nuns, priests )  does anyone dislike Catholics because some look down at marriage?  .. Christianity is a religion of sacrifice - based on the atonement, of giving things up, thw AbrahamI've  sacrifice is different for everyone but... 

Catholic grandma said "I've heard some strangethings about mormons".. I said "I'veheard some strange things about Catholics"  .. that was the end of that.

Just get involved in the community, don't be preachy, be friendly.

I am involved as much as my health allows, and never, never,  preachy. My daughter is Gay, and I "gave her away" when she married last.  She also helped support my youngest on his mission. It would seem I am just an oddball all around, and my family circumstances. This too has brought judgement from others as well.  

[Marginal Gains]

5 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I am involved as much as my health allows, and never, never,  preachy. My daughter is Gay, and I "gave her away" when she married last.  She also helped support my youngest on his mission. It would seem I am just an oddball all around, and my family circumstances. This too has brought judgement from others as well.  

You sound like a good bloke and a good dad. 

[pogi]

14 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Great scriptures, thank you. But my love for these friends has not decreased...

Good to hear!  It can be easy to respond (even to those we love) in defensive and angry tones, because we are hurt.  I like the suggestion in 1 Corinthians to "answer kindly".

17 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Such harsh comments from those I love is difficult. 

I am sorry to hear about how you have been treated.  It is difficult. 

[Duncan]

I live in Canada and there are as many Mormons here as there people in England that believe that the Jedi is a real religion. I would say that half are active. It's very rare to run into another member of the Church and equally rare if they aren't nuts or something.  I ask the missionaries who come here and how do they react when they come from areas where the Church is enormous and serve in places like Swift Current, Sk. or Selkirk, MB where the Church is small branches. Most say they love it, they see the church stripped to it's bare bones. In terms of anti mormonism, it's around if you really look for it but I wouldn't say it's a huge concern. People look online for that

[Calm]

I have only found it online except in Russia and once in Calgary where a local EV kitchen refused an offer to help from a ward.  Another charity jumped on the offer, so it seems likely an anomaly though I heard of antis (Ed Decker kind of stuff, not just critical) teaching classes on Mormonism.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Calm

[Kenngo1969]

I have not spent an extended period of time outside the "cradle of Mormonism," so perhaps that disqualifies me from commenting.  That said, at least one scripture comes to mind:

Quote

 

Matthew 5:10-12

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

For what it's worth.  

I see Pogi beat me to it.  Good call.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Kenngo1969

[carbon dioxide]

3 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

I often laugh at those that say LDS are no longer persecuted and it is all a victim complex that LDS perpetuate. The reality is that LDS are persecuted daily by other Christians - Evangelicals most often.  Your example is evidence of such. 

Persecution is a strong term.  Real persecution is when it get to the point that life and property are threatened.  Whatever "persecutions" that I or most other LDS experience today usually is very little to what others have been through in history.  So I try not to complain too much and reserve that term for when it is really serious.  We may have some strong disagreements but that is where I characterize it.

[changed]

2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I am involved as much as my health allows, and never, never,  preachy. My daughter is Gay, and I "gave her away" when she married last.  She also helped support my youngest on his mission. It would seem I am just an oddball all around, and my family circumstances. This too has brought judgement from others as well.  

 

I think that is beautiful that you gave her away.  

Often, those who are most easily offended are those who have been cut the deepest - like an animal who has been abused and snaps at everyone around them for any and everything.  The ones who have the most prickles, are the ones who need the most love, and the most help.  Just love them, don't shut them out - sounds like that is what you are doing, so keep being you!

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Persecution is a strong term.  Real persecution is when it get to the point that life and property are threatened.  Whatever "persecutions" that I or most other LDS experience today usually is very little to what others have been through in history.  So I try not to complain too much and reserve that term for when it is really serious.  We may have some strong disagreements but that is where I characterize it.

I don't know, a quick look around the Internet (most sites I would never recommend) is indeed persecution. When Mitt Romney was running for President, people posted pictures of him and his wife in nothing but garments. It was photo-shopped of course. But Pastor Jeffers said that "voting for Mitt was like voting for the Devil". The President of the Evangelical Association of America boasted that their members listened to them, and it was why Mitt lost their vote. There were a number of reasons he lost, but what was very harsh and judgemental were those who opposed President Obama, and I mean opposed, but would rather he remain President because of the bigotry of many "Christians", concerning Mormons. Something I am experiencing now, I recently taught a class for continuing education, and some who know me said that, "you know if you go to his class you are supporting a Mormon". Of course the truth is that I compete with some for persons needed classes. It is only about money, but my faith is used to discourage others from coming and paying me, by telling them my Religion. 

One such student said, "I don't care if you are the Devil, you are by far the better teacher". I thought (or said) uh, thank you, I think. 

[Duncan]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

I have only found it online except in Russia and once in Calgary where a local EV kitchen refused an offer to help from a ward.  Another charity jumped on the offer, so it seems likely an anomaly though I heard of antis (Ed Decker kind of stuff, not just critical) teaching classes on Mormonism.

it happened here as well, we had just started and we got asked to leave, like what the heck????

[Guest]

15 hours ago, changed said:

 

I think that is beautiful that you gave her away.  

Thank you, I did it because she asked, and because I love her. It of course had many in my extended family scratching their heads wondering what was wrong with me. I remember once that my oldest daughter asked my niece to spend the night. She was only 11-12 years old. She fired back in an instant, "I'm not going to attend no Mormon Church"! When he mom got embarrassed and called her out on it, I told my sister, "don't worry about it, she is just mimicking what she has heard at home".

Thankfully my parents loved me, and loved coming to our Ward whenever I would speak, or teach. They also loved being there. They also read the BoM, when my Father passed away, my Mother took up the charge. In one year she read the Bible, BoM,  D&C and PoGP. 

. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Bill "Papa" Lee

[LittleNipper]

It must be realized that, Jehovah Witnesses, Moonies, Scientologists, HariKrishnas all are minorities and face various issues; however, that in no way makes them C-O-R-R-E-C-T in their beliefs.  

[changed]

9 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Thank you, I did it because she asked, and because I love her. It of course had many in my extended family scratching their heads wondering what was wrong with me. I remember once that my oldest daughter asked my niece to spend the night. She was only 11-12 years old. She fired back in an instant, "I'm not going to attend no Mormon Church"! When he mom got embarrassed and called her out on it, I told my sister, "don't worry about it, she is just mimicking what she has heard at home".

Thankfully my parents loved me, and loved coming to our Ward whenever I would speak, or teach. They also loved being there. They also read the BoM, when my Father passed away, my Mother took up the charge. In one year she read the Bible, BoM,  D&C and PoGP. 

. 

 

My parents will not go to church for anything - when I was baptized, only one person from my family came, a cousin.  After being invited to church, my dad has a little joke, he will say "You know church scares the hell out of me.", and I will reply, "I know dad, that's the point."  ... you know that song "Let there be peace on Earth and let it begin with me" - haha, my dad sings "Let Armageddon begin and let it begin with me."   ... let's just say he had some bad experiences with organized religion growing up that has made him a bit rebellious when it comes to church. 

Most of the people in my family are religious - they just hate church.   That is completely fine with me - they remind me that in the end, it is not about what church you go to, it's about who you are, about your character, and your personal testimony and relationship with G-d.   My parents are very loving people, have helped so very many along their journey - their help is genuine, no strings attached, no hidden agenda to try and convert anyone - they are just good people who are able to help others because they have been through the ringer themselves...  I wish church could be more like that - open to everyone, no hidden agendas, no judgement, no one trying to control others etc.  

If your church is your G-d, you will find no G-d in your church... forget who said that, but it is true.

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by changed

[Amulek]

17 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

1. Do those who live in areas where Mormonism is the "tiny majority", have you experienced the same?

Absolutely. I grew up in a small(ish) town in Texas, and it was just part of growing up. Most of the local churches would hold workshops on the evils of Mormonism (regularly). Listening to what people would say about us after learning about us from the latest 'cult expert' was always amusing. I remember once being told, in all seriousness, that we could shoot lasers from our eyes.

Seriously. Can you imagine how cool that would be!?! Restored gospel plus laser beams...we wouldn't even need missionaries.

 

Quote

2. How do you deal with it, or how would you suggest that I react? 

It depends on the situation. In casual conversations with acquaintances, humor usually works well.

In more serious conversations, you have the opportunity to explain why you believe the things you do and share your testimony. One of my friends recently tried to save me. I appreciated where he was coming from; he was acting out of sincere concern for my eternal well being. We were able to have a lengthy discussion about the gospel and, by the end of our conversation, he had committed to read the Book of Mormon. 

That's obviously not how these conversations always (or even commonly) go. But I'm usually able to end them in a place of mutual respect even when there is no chance for them to end in a place of mutual understanding.

 

[mnn727]

18 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Recently on Facebook an issue came up where I was defending comments about someone a prominent figure being a Mormon. Prior to this, many of my posts were about Spiritual matters and my many poems for friends who enjoy them, poems that we often shared. I have often be told what a had   " turned into a mighty man of God ", (which of course is not so) from  friends from High School. When the some in the debate began to ask, "why do you care so much", I replied that, I am a Mormon. The tone of many turned very negative, and in some cases, anger. 

I do not live out West, I live in Georgia when Mormons are a tiny minority. I have (when I still worked) faced a lot of backlash and crude comments, but not as much from friends who knew from the beginning. These recent events have caught me off guard. I wish to ask two questions...

1. Do those who live in areas where Mormonism is the "tiny majority", have you experienced the same?

2. How do you deal with it, or how would you suggest that I react? 

The only comment I have ever gotten offline is "How many wives do you have?"

Online - some people are jerks.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, changed said:

 

My parents will not go to church for anything - when I was baptized, only one person from my family came, a cousin.  After being invited to church, my dad has a little joke, he will say "You know church scares the hell out of me.", and I will reply, "I know dad, that's the point."  ... you know that song "Let there be peace on Earth and let it begin with me" - haha, my dad sings "Let Armageddon begin and let it begin with me."   ... let's just say he had some bad experiences with organized religion growing up that has made him a bit rebellious when it comes to church. 

Most of the people in my family are religious - they just hate church.   That is completely fine with me - they remind me that in the end, it is not about what church you go to, it's about who you are, about your character, and your personal testimony and relationship with G-d.   My parents are very loving people, have helped so very many along their journey - their help is genuine, no strings attached, no hidden agenda to try and convert anyone - they are just good people who are able to help others because they have been through the ringer themselves...  I wish church could be more like that - open to everyone, no hidden agendas, no judgement, no one trying to control others etc.  

If your church is your G-d, you will find no G-d in your church... forget who said that, but it is true.

 

Wow, your dad sounds like my dad! And about the last sentence in your quote, too bad that happens to a lot of LDS that leave the church and don't believe in God any longer. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

It must be realized that, Jehovah Witnesses, Moonies, Scientologists, HariKrishnas all are minorities and face various issues; however, that in no way makes them C-O-R-R-E-C-T in their beliefs.  

I was not suggesting that we alone face such issues, but I can only speak for myself and what I experienced. Also, this is a Mormon discussion board. There are other boards that discuss all, but never kindly. JW's are a different Christian sect, the others you noted are not are not Christian sects. But none should be called "Devils", just because of their beliefs.

[mnn727]

2 hours ago, changed said:

 

 when I was baptized, only one person from my family came, a cousin. 

 

Thats one more family member than I had at mine.

[Guest]

On May 26, 2018 at 9:31 AM, changed said:

If your church is your G-d, you will find no G-d in your church... forget who said that, but it is true.

This is the argument many on the outside looking in. But Mormons do not believe the Church can save them, they don't believe the Church is their God, they don't worship the Church. I could go on, if there be any who believe such things they have missed every boat ever sent their way. The Church is there to teach and expound the Gospel, an incredible vehicle to help us know how too, and live a Christ centered life. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Bill "Papa" Lee