The cost of being Mormon, and the loss.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

Thats one more family member than I had at mine.

I was in the Army and living in West Germany, there was my wife and I, who were baptized. My oldest children who were both under 4 years of age. 

[Tacenda]

I think a lot of criticisim now comes from former LDS, or those that are disinfected. More so than EV's, IMO. EV's back off more, since the Topic Essays came out and verified some of what they've been saying all along. 

There is a movement that a lot of active LDS are unaware, it's a rumbling movement, more and more LDS are finding things out they didn't know about and it's like an obsession when they do and they can't leave the church alone. They know more now than they ever did while a believer. They listen to podcasts, read blogs, read FB posts, all geared toward the warts in Mormonism. Maybe it's not as much in Papa's area because there aren't that many LDS there. But in Utah it's huge, there are meetup groups, there are private FB accounts, people go to church but fake it for their families.

There are people at my husband's work that know things and tell him about it. All day long one of them wear earphones listening to podcasts. I have no doubt that it's a concern to the church leaders. They are in a tough situation trying to be transparent and then not letting the people fall through the cracks once they're aware. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Persecution is a strong term.  Real persecution is when it get to the point that life and property are threatened.  Whatever "persecutions" that I or most other LDS experience today usually is very little to what others have been through in history.  So I try not to complain too much and reserve that term for when it is really serious.  We may have some strong disagreements but that is where I characterize it.

Persecution is just more polished now, and laws are not like they were back in the early days of the Church. If the same time of lawlessness was still allowed, more drastic actions would still be the order of the day.    

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think a lot of criticisim now comes from former LDS, or those that are disinfected. More so than EV's, IMO. EV's back off more, since the Topic Essays came out and verified some of what they've been saying all along. 

There is a movement that a lot of active LDS are unaware, it's a rumbling movement, more and more LDS are finding things out they didn't know about and it's like an obsession when they do and they can't leave the church alone. They know more now than they ever did while a believer. They listen to podcasts, read blogs, read FB posts, all geared toward the warts in Mormonism. Maybe it's not as much in Papa's area because there aren't that many LDS there. But in Utah it's huge, there are meetup groups, there are private FB accounts, people go to church but fake it for their families.

There are people at my husband's work that know things and tell him about it. All day long one of them wear earphones listening to podcasts. I have no doubt that it's a concern to the church leaders. They are in a tough situation trying to be transparent and then not letting the people fall through the cracks once they're aware. 

Anger and obsession comes from former members who can't move on with their lives. The slick world of lies and anti-Mormonism comes from EV's, and especially from "Reformed Churches (Calvinist). Sadly many things that former members see and read, are exaggerated and lies. Then, once angry and disaffected, they never learn the truth of things told or taught to them in error. Too many had Faith in the Church and Church history, and did not build their Faith upon the firm foundation of Jesus Christ. They look to Joseph Smith, and others and they are shocked to find out they were and are flawed men. Following a Prophet means using his direction as a guide, not worshiping them, which will make a shipwreck of their faith, and souls. 

[poptart]

19 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I am involved as much as my health allows, and never, never,  preachy. My daughter is Gay, and I "gave her away" when she married last.  She also helped support my youngest on his mission. It would seem I am just an oddball all around, and my family circumstances. This too has brought judgement from others as well.  

Wow, you still love your daughter even though she's gay.  Was talking to mom a bit after dinner last night, besides smacking her around when i was younger and weaker he would spout no end of verbal cruelty.  Really suprised, most of the lds i met were varying degrees of bigoted trash people, you're alright.

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Anger and obsession comes from former members who can't move on with their lives. The slick world of lies and anti-Mormonism comes from EV's, and especially from "Reformed Churches (Calvinist). Sadly many things that former members see and read, are exaggerated and lies. Then, once angry and disaffected, they never learn the truth of things told or taught to them in error. Too many had Faith in the Church and Church history, and did not build their Faith upon the firm foundation of Jesus Christ. They look to Joseph Smith, and others and they are shocked to find out they were and are flawed men. Following a Prophet means using his direction as a guide, not worshiping them, which will make a shipwreck of their faith, and souls. 

Papa...I know this is how you feel..but not all of this is true.

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I think a lot of criticisim now comes from former LDS, or those that are disinfected. [sic] ...

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Good catch! Disinfected, did I really say that? Holy cow, I guess I'm more a germaphobe than I thought. Thanks for pointing out the error, you're alright.

[Kenngo1969]

34 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Good catch! Disinfected, did I really say that? Holy cow, I guess I'm more a germaphobe than I thought. Thanks for pointing out the error, you're alright.

Don't take anything I say too seriously, Tacenda.  Life is too short for that.   (If all else fails, blame it on Auto Complete or Auto Correct! )

[poptart]

Here's a genuine question, when do you think the level of resentment will get to the point where it comes down to legit violence?  As much grief as I give mormons over prop 8 the evangelicals are still waaaay more bigoted in my experience, considering now they have no qualms setting their morals aside for political gain i'm wondering when it will get to the point where we have actual fights.  Works out for me, world could do with less scum breathing our air.  That and i'm bored, I could do with seeing baptists and evangelicals start a good old fashion blood feud.  Would be taking bets on who breaks out the klan robes first lol.

[cacheman]

When I was a kid, our family joined the LDS church,  and the local cub scout pack kicked us out for being in a cult. Later in life when I left the LDS church,  I was kicked out as a cub scout leader for potentially being a 'wolf in sheep's clothing'. Lol.

It's human nature to view people negatively based on their different beliefs/lifestyles/politics, etc..  These two life lessons have helped teach me to roll with the punches,  and try and avoid that kind of thinking myself. 

[2PairsofCletes]

I live in the north were Mormonism is small and do not get those kind of reactions. You get them because you live in GA., the Bible belt.

It really is dependent upon geography

[Vanguard]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 1:28 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Recently on Facebook an issue came up where I was defending comments about someone a prominent figure being a Mormon. Prior to this, many of my posts were about Spiritual matters and my many poems for friends who enjoy them, poems that we often shared. I have often be told what a had   " turned into a mighty man of God ", (which of course is not so) from  friends from High School. When the some in the debate began to ask, "why do you care so much", I replied that, I am a Mormon. The tone of many turned very negative, and in some cases, anger. 

I do not live out West, I live in Georgia when Mormons are a tiny minority. I have (when I still worked) faced a lot of backlash and crude comments, but not as much from friends who knew from the beginning. These recent events have caught me off guard. I wish to ask two questions...

1. Do those who live in areas where Mormonism is the "tiny majority", have you experienced the same?

2. How do you deal with it, or how would you suggest that I react? 

Papa - I have not read any of the responses on your thread. The following -

1. I haven't experienced anything like that. Folks eventually find out I am Mormon though I haven't received any obvious backlash. I am very careful not to go into matters of religion out of fear I may be pegged in a negative way. I work in a field that has me working with several gay men (this has been the case my entire professional career). I have crafted close working relationships with them and we have never brought up Mormonism. And probably for good reason...

2. I would go back and make it clear that it isn't because I am Mormon that makes me care more but that you have an innate drive to love. Your faith leads you in this direction much as other faiths do. Though I doubt you meant it this way, your response strikes me as agenda-driven. It dumbs down the more meaningful reason why you care and makes it sound like this is simply about where you hang your hat on Sundays.  

[Atheist Mormon]

On 5/25/2018 at 3:28 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

 

2. How do you deal with it, or how would you suggest that I react? 

You do like any other business/family/social decisions.... Is it worth to stay in?

[Guest]

On May 26, 2018 at 8:24 PM, Atheist Mormon said:

You do like any other business/family/social decisions.... Is it worth to stay in?

My be.cutting ties with shone already. Well, I have with some already. 

I left that line, I have no idea what I was saying. When I know then I will edit t. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Bill "Papa" Lee

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Papa...I know this is how you feel..but not all of this is true.

I was only speaking to the narrow group brought up in example listed. It was not meant to be all comprehensive, as there are sooooooo many reasons who people leave the Church. I don't have the desire or the time to address all. 

[LittleNipper]

13 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

This is the argument many one the outside looking in. But Mormons do not believe the Church can save them, they don't believe the Church is their God, they don't worship the Church. I could go on, if there be any who believe such things they have missed every boat ever sent their way. The Church is there to teach and expound the Gospel, an incredible vehicle to help us know how to, and live a Christ centered life.  

May I be so bold to ask if you believe if Peter, Paul, or Timothy were Mormons and would they recognizes the Mormon rituals and behavior patterns as something they promoted among the churches they were affiliated with? The reality is if indeed you do not believe that Mormon church affiliation is necessary to lead a full Christian life, then frankly, I'm very content with the church I'm already affiliated with and see no Biblical, spiritual nor rational reason to change. The church I attend is there to teach, promote the Gospel, and to bring Christians together in fellowship with other saints.

Edited May 27, 2018 by LittleNipper

[Guest]

On May 26, 2018 at 1:29 PM, poptart said:

Wow, you still love your daughter even though she's gay.  Was talking to mom a bit after dinner last night, besides smacking her around when i was younger and weaker he would spout no end of verbal cruelty.  Really suprised, most of the lds i met were varying degrees of bigoted trash people, you're alright.

Of course I "still" love my daughter, just as every other member I have ever known who has Gay children. I would, and they would give their very lives for all of their children, if not even their souls. It is of course difficult when parents let their children down, and there is no excuse for abuse. However, it is an odd thing that children so often want and will accept nothing less than perfection from their parents. But they will accept imperfections in their own lives and actions. Most children never see their language or actions as abusive, that river flows only one way. I do not know with whom you spend your time with, because I don't know these "bigoted trash people" you speak of...I have met some who are very judgmental at times. But your comment that "most of the LDS", never met them, and do not suppose I ever will. I am sorry that this is what you have seen, or suppose you have seen. But, at least you got it off your chest, "most" posters here are LDS, do you see us the same way, as "bigoted trash people"?  

[poptart]

On 5/28/2018 at 1:01 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Of course I "still" love my daughter, just as every other member I have ever known who has Gay children. I would, and they would give their very lives for all of their children, if not even their souls. It is of course difficult when parents let their children down, and there is no excuse for abuse. However, it is an odd thing that children so often want and will accept nothing less than perfection from their parents. But they will accept imperfections in their own lives and actions. Most children never see their language or actions as abusive, that river flows only one way. I do not know with whom you spend your time with, because I don't know these "bigoted trash people" you speak of...I have met some who are very judgmental at times. But your comment that "most of the LDS", never met them, and do not suppose I ever will. I am sorry that this is what you have seen, or suppose you have seen. But, at least you got it off your chest, "most" posters here are LDS, do you see us the same way, as "bigoted trash people"?  

No, actually the people here are great, I just had a miserable life and bad luck.

[Meerkat]

On 5/25/2018 at 8:54 PM, Duncan said:

it happened here as well, we had just started and we got asked to leave, like what the heck????

Our youth served at a local rescue mission one year.  Served the meals, provided a beautiful youth choir and visited with the patrons.  It was a lovely experience.  We requested a day the following year, but were declined.  I like this from John Milton:

“God doth not need Either man’s work or his own gifts; who best Bear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His state Is Kingly. Thousands at his bidding speed And post o’er Land and Ocean without rest: They also serve who only stand and wait.”