How Technology is not only changing the world, but will revolutionize the Gospel

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I am in awe of how technology and other wonders that hace come to pass, just since joining the Church in1979. I joined the Church in Germany and had to drive 94 miles to our Stake Center to watch General Conference. Now, I don't have to leave the house to watch it. Fast forward to today, two weeks ago in Priesthood, our one member who can play music for us was absent. So the Bishop put his IPad on the pulpit (or stand), pulled the microphone lower and played the the music to the song that was selected. I am sure that many already know about this function or "app", but I did not. Currently cellphones have an app where a person can speak their own language, and it will speak in the language selected. 

Soon there will be (if not already) earbuds that a missionary, or anyone for that fact can wear. They will translate up to 40 languages for now. A tool that could shorten MTC time, and lead to more time in the mission field. This because they will not have to learn a level of broken language, and then learn the full language in the mission field. The only obstacle is that those who live in this other Nations will need them as well. Until then the cellphone app, will have to do, as it can work both ways. Right now, IPads will work well, allowing many of other Nations to listen to General Conference talks in their own language, allowing them to feel the Spirit that such talks invite. 

So, for those who are Tech savvy, what else is out there? Or, what else do you see coming, and how do you see them helping to advance the work of the Gospel? I am usually very behind the curve, so I would love to see what I don't know about yet. But most of all, how it will aid the Gospel? 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Metis_LDS]

3 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I am in awe of how technology and other wonders that hace come to pass, just since joining the Church in1979. I joined the Church in Germany and had to drive 94 miles to our Stake Center to watch General Conference

 Well Bill when I joined the Church we did not have to drive very far for Conference but we could now watch it. It was audio only over a telephone line. It was like that for a few years until a Satellite dish was installed at the chapel.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Metis_LDS
grammar and formating

[Robert F. Smith]

There is also a language app which allows a smart phone to be held up to a foreign language sign, which it will read to you in your language.

The far more advanced and problematic change in digital tech will be the ability of supercomputers to do instantly all the functions now performed by the human brain, and this will take place probably within the next decade (based on Moore's Law).  At that point, computers will be as smart or smarter than humans, and they may even become self-aware, in which case they may become a threat.  They may find humans inefficient  and a contaminant pest on planet Earth, and may decide to eliminate the pests.

Quote

Due to the rapid rate that technology has grown in the past few years, most computer technicians you speak with – whether they have heard of Moore’s Law or not will tell you that CPU speeds double each year. Though Moore’s Law had said every two years, this rapid increase in technological production has lessened the period in the minds of technicians and users alike.  http://www.mooreslaw.org/  .

In fact, physicist Stephen Hawking has foreseen just such an existential threat to mankind from superintelligent computers.  http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30290540 .  What might that mean for LDS theology?  Could we convert the computers?

[strappinglad]

Personally, I look forward to experiencing my HP group from the comfort of my own bed using  virtual reality mask.

I am told that DNA is a bio-computer code designed by a super intelligence.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There is also a language app which allows a smart phone to be held up to a foreign language sign, which it will read to you in your language.

The far more advanced and problematic change in digital tech will be the ability of supercomputers to do instantly all the functions now performed by the human brain, and this will take place probably within the next decade (based on Moore's Law).  At that point, computers will be as smart or smarter than humans, and they may even become self-aware, in which case they may become a threat.  They may find humans inefficient  and a contaminant pest on planet Earth, and may decide to eliminate the pests.

In fact, physicist Stephen Hawking has foreseen just such an existential threat to mankind from superintelligent computers.  http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30290540 .  What might that mean for LDS theology?  Could we convert the computers?

The necessary science requires funding and government/political support, so a related question for me is, “which ideologies will get there first; which ideologies will compete to the point of war (virtual or actual) to win the intelligence race; which ideologies will AI adopt as its own?” The war in heaven evidently continues!

As Spencer W. Kimball challenged, “Members of the Church should be peers or superiors to any others in natural ability, extended training, plus the Holy Spirit which should bring them light and truth. With hundreds of “men of God” and their associates so blessed, we have the base for an increasingly efficient and worthy corps of talent.” https://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/07/the-gospel-vision-of-the-arts?lang=eng

I’ve sometimes thought that as human and artificial intelligence blend (a tendency that began with writing, but as you point out, has accelerated beyond comprehension, to the point we can’t recognize we are already delegating an awful lot to IT, to the point we can’t tell whether the “I” stands for “Information” or “Intelligence”), the Lord will hold the human spirit accountable and not something He didn’t have a direct hand in creating.

[cinepro]

On 2/9/2018 at 10:56 AM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I am in awe of how technology and other wonders that hace come to pass, just since joining the Church in1979. I joined the Church in Germany and had to drive 94 miles to our Stake Center to watch General Conference. Now, I don't have to leave the house to watch it. Fast forward to today, two weeks ago in Priesthood, our one member who can play music for us was absent. So the Bishop put his IPad on the pulpit (or stand), pulled the microphone lower and played the the music to the song that was selected. I am sure that many already know about this function or "app", but I did not. Currently cellphones have an app where a person can speak their own language, and it will speak in the language selected. 

It's my understanding that most newer chapels, especially in areas that don't have a lot of organists, have organs installed that have the hymns preset in them.

[Calm]

One can also get (or could) a keyboard from Church Distribution that could be used in classrooms.  Hymns were programmed in iirc...though now I think of it, they may have been generic hymns and not LDS.  We just tried the one in my ward library out once or twice at least a decade ago.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Calm

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There is also a language app which allows a smart phone to be held up to a foreign language sign, which it will read to you in your language.

The far more advanced and problematic change in digital tech will be the ability of supercomputers to do instantly all the functions now performed by the human brain, and this will take place probably within the next decade (based on Moore's Law).  At that point, computers will be as smart or smarter than humans, and they may even become self-aware, in which case they may become a threat.  They may find humans inefficient  and a contaminant pest on planet Earth, and may decide to eliminate the pests.

In fact, physicist Stephen Hawking has foreseen just such an existential threat to mankind from superintelligent computers.  http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30290540 .  What might that mean for LDS theology?  Could we convert the computers?

Well, consider that Dr. Hawking also believes there is no God.  Because he can't see or otherwise detect Him.  Yet he believes superintelligent aliens, whom he has likewise not detected or seen, are a danger to humanity.  So I take his warning about superintelligent computers with a grain of salt.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Well, consider that Dr. Hawking also believes there is no God.  Because he can't see or otherwise detect Him.  Yet he believes superintelligent aliens, whom he has likewise not detected or seen, are a danger to humanity.  So I take his warning about superintelligent computers with a grain of salt.

I merely mentioned Hawking in passing.  He is not alone in concluding (from Moore's Law) that superintelligent computers will in fact be with us very soon, and that they may constitute an existential threat.  Sci fi writers have been using that as a plot device for more than the last half-century, everything from the Forbin Project, HAL, and the Terminator series, to the movie version of I, Robot.

He is also not at all alone in positing the existence of superintelligent aliens.  Most astrobiologists and astrophysicists believe that to be very likely.  The kicker is that the Mormons already posit just such a reality, only with a very different sort of means than conventional physics envisions.  A far more glorious reality in which space flight is fully mastered all across the universe, and in which immortal beings are fully capable of creating entire solar systems, and more.   Our Book of Abraham gives an inkling of just what that might entail.

[RevTestament]

15 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The far more advanced and problematic change in digital tech will be the ability of supercomputers to do instantly all the functions now performed by the human brain, and this will take place probably within the next decade (based on Moore's Law).  At that point, computers will be as smart or smarter than humans, and they may even become self-aware, in which case they may become a threat.  They may find humans inefficient  and a contaminant pest on planet Earth, and may decide to eliminate the pests.

Quote

Due to the rapid rate that technology has grown in the past few years, most computer technicians you speak with – whether they have heard of Moore’s Law or not will tell you that CPU speeds double each year. Though Moore’s Law had said every two years, this rapid increase in technological production has lessened the period in the minds of technicians and users alike.  http://www.mooreslaw.org/  .

 

Actually, it seems the increase in CPU speed has slowed. Each new series seems to be about 30-50% faster, and that looks to slow more with current silicon technology. Current increases in speed are essentially being made by adding more cores. To reach new vast improvements they are already looking to new processes to include things like indium, or something that will allow computers to jump beyond the binary architecture. This has been called quantum computing or the new buzzword seems to be nanoscale or nano logic. This basically involves storing more states of logic than the on-off states of a binary system. An example may include an atom at various states of ionic bond. There are major physics issues involved such as how to keep electrons from jumping from one atom to another. It may involve impregnating certain atoms in a carbon lattice, which is an idea I dreamed up - which could bring a new meaning to carbon-based lifeform, LOL. Anyway, until this jump in technology is made, I think we will see a slowing in increases in CPU speeds and efficiency. Once Quantum computing begins though, the increases would be vast, and perhaps eventually on the scale of the human brain.                                                                         

Quote

In fact, physicist Stephen Hawking has foreseen just such an existential threat to mankind from superintelligent computers.  http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30290540 .  What might that mean for LDS theology?  Could we convert the computers?

A basic premise of LDS theology is essentially that El Elyon is a superintelligent "alien" - a being from outside this world who is not limited by our current knowledge. For the foreseeable future, anything we design could be "hard-wired" with certain "laws" so that all its learning or processes abide by those laws. This is the basic idea of Asimov's "I, Robot."  However, the idea of unleashing super-intelligent computer beings on terrorist or other war missions would certainly raise an ominous threat. We have already seen some of that with computer viruses and hacking sponsored by foreign nations. The idea of converting such intelligences is foreign to me, since we cannot create a soul for them, and cannot place a spirit in them. Whether they could collect enough information to deduce a knowledge of God is obviously unknown. 

[Robert F. Smith]

20 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Actually, it seems the increase in CPU speed has slowed. Each new series seems to be about 30-50% faster, and that looks to slow more with current silicon technology. Current increases in speed are essentially being made by adding more cores. To reach new vast improvements they are already looking to new processes to include things like indium, or something that will allow computers to jump beyond the binary architecture. This has been called quantum computing or the new buzzword seems to be nanoscale or nano logic. This basically involves storing more states of logic than the on-off states of a binary system. An example may include an atom at various states of ionic bond. There are major physics issues involved such as how to keep electrons from jumping from one atom to another. It may involve impregnating certain atoms in a carbon lattice, which is an idea I dreamed up - which could bring a new meaning to carbon-based lifeform, LOL. Anyway, until this jump in technology is made, I think we will see a slowing in increases in CPU speeds and efficiency. Once Quantum computing begins though, the increases would be vast, and perhaps eventually on the scale of the human brain.                                                                         

A basic premise of LDS theology is essentially that El Elyon is a superintelligent "alien" - a being from outside this world who is not limited by our current knowledge. For the foreseeable future, anything we design could be "hard-wired" with certain "laws" so that all its learning or processes abide by those laws. This is the basic idea of Asimov's "I, Robot."  However, the idea of unleashing super-intelligent computer beings on terrorist or other war missions would certainly raise an ominous threat. We have already seen some of that with computer viruses and hacking sponsored by foreign nations. The idea of converting such intelligences is foreign to me, since we cannot create a soul for them, and cannot place a spirit in them. Whether they could collect enough information to deduce a knowledge of God is obviously unknown. 

Yes, and there is the problem of bits of algorithms getting loose and creating unforeseen problems in systems which are becoming more independent and self-regulating, and self-repairing.

[SteveO]

31 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Actually, it seems the increase in CPU speed has slowed. Each new series seems to be about 30-50% faster, and that looks to slow more with current silicon technology. Current increases in speed are essentially being made by adding more cores. To reach new vast improvements they are already looking to new processes to include things like indium, or something that will allow computers to jump beyond the binary architecture. This has been called quantum computing or the new buzzword seems to be nanoscale or nano logic. This basically involves storing more states of logic than the on-off states of a binary system. An example may include an atom at various states of ionic bond. There are major physics issues involved such as how to keep electrons from jumping from one atom to another. It may involve impregnating certain atoms in a carbon lattice, which is an idea I dreamed up - which could bring a new meaning to carbon-based lifeform, LOL. Anyway, until this jump in technology is made, I think we will see a slowing in increases in CPU speeds and efficiency. Once Quantum computing begins though, the increases would be vast, and perhaps eventually on the scale of the human brain.                                                                         

I work in semi conductors...we literally can’t make the pathways for the electrons any smaller, so either the hardware has to be bigger, which is always a no, no in tech, or they make the technology more “3D”.  Something we’re specializing in doing about 5 years ahead of the competition in Lehi, Utah.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, cinepro said:

It's my understanding that most newer chapels, especially in areas that don't have a lot of organists, have organs installed that have the hymns preset in them.

That is just too cool. 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

There is also a language app which allows a smart phone to be held up to a foreign language sign, which it will read to you in your language.

The far more advanced and problematic change in digital tech will be the ability of supercomputers to do instantly all the functions now performed by the human brain, and this will take place probably within the next decade (based on Moore's Law).  At that point, computers will be as smart or smarter than humans, and they may even become self-aware, in which case they may become a threat.  They may find humans inefficient  and a contaminant pest on planet Earth, and may decide to eliminate the pests.

In fact, physicist Stephen Hawking has foreseen just such an existential threat to mankind from superintelligent computers.  http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30290540 .  What might that mean for LDS theology?  Could we convert the computers?

That sounds scary. It also runs the risk of people not learning, and the growth that comes from that learning. 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Personally, I look forward to experiencing my HP group from the comfort of my own bed using  virtual reality mask.

I am told that DNA is a bio-computer code designed by a super intelligence.

I think the entire process of waking up, dressing up, and attending our meetings is what strengthens us, and .our testimony. 

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

It also runs the risk of people not learning, and the growth that comes from that learning. 

Could concentrate more on learning higher concepts and reasoning, however.  The questions is how much of the basics one needs to understand concepts.

[Five Solas]

20 hours ago, cinepro said:

It's my understanding that most newer chapels, especially in areas that don't have a lot of organists, have organs installed that have the hymns preset in them.

I always wanted a player piano, an old-school pneumatic one, of course.  And example of digital/binary storage that predates the computer.  But hey--you still get a keyboard!

:0)

I'm guessing the ones they buy for LDS chapels won't be quite so educational & interesting.

--Erik

[Robert F. Smith]

On 2/10/2018 at 6:57 PM, strappinglad said:

..............................................I am told that DNA is a bio-computer code designed by a super intelligence.

Exactly, and that superintelligent being is "more intelligent than they all" (in his jurisdiction), and that being is God (Abraham 3:19).  Naturally, DNA may be the means used to design life by all the gods, and thus infinitely old.  That would also make it quite malleable, so far as differing blueprints go, what with the ease of genetic engineering and the introduction of mutations.  DNA could provide an infinite variety of life forms throughout the universe..

[Stargazer]

19 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I merely mentioned Hawking in passing. 

I'm not sure if this an objection, or merely an observation.

If an objection, do I have to restrain myself from addressing something or someone because you only mentioned it or them in passing, in favor of something else? And how do I measure whether it is mentioned merely in passing, or if it has some significance?

If merely an observation, then fair enough.

 

[Stargazer]

21 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

...Hawking ...is not alone in concluding (from Moore's Law) that superintelligent computers will in fact be with us very soon, and that they may constitute an existential threat.  Sci fi writers have been using that as a plot device for more than the last half-century, everything from the Forbin Project, HAL, and the Terminator series, to the movie version of I, Robot.

He is also not at all alone in positing the existence of superintelligent aliens.  Most astrobiologists and astrophysicists believe that to be very likely.  The kicker is that the Mormons already posit just such a reality, only with a very different sort of means than conventional physics envisions.  A far more glorious reality in which space flight is fully mastered all across the universe, and in which immortal beings are fully capable of creating entire solar systems, and more.   Our Book of Abraham gives an inkling of just what that might entail.

That which is new and innovative in human society is frequently presented as an existential threat.  And machines have been especially feared.  As for computers, well, some humans have particular skills regarding hacking them. In the event of a supercomputer takeover, I expect Anonymous will shortly take it down.

As for superintelligent aliens, consider the Fermi Paradox.  I'm not worried.  If they were out there and could come visiting, they would have done so already. 

 

 

[Stargazer]

21 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

... Hawking ... is not alone in concluding (from Moore's Law) that superintelligent computers will in fact be with us very soon, and that they may constitute an existential threat.  Sci fi writers have been using that as a plot device for more than the last half-century, everything from the Forbin Project, HAL, and the Terminator series, to the movie version of I, Robot.

He is also not at all alone in positing the existence of superintelligent aliens.  Most astrobiologists and astrophysicists believe that to be very likely.  The kicker is that the Mormons already posit just such a reality, only with a very different sort of means than conventional physics envisions.  A far more glorious reality in which space flight is fully mastered all across the universe, and in which immortal beings are fully capable of creating entire solar systems, and more.   Our Book of Abraham gives an inkling of just what that might entail.

Part 2:

 

[Robert F. Smith]

9 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I'm not sure if this an objection, or merely an observation.

If an objection, do I have to restrain myself from addressing something or someone because you only mentioned it or them in passing, in favor of something else? And how do I measure whether it is mentioned merely in passing, or if it has some significance?

If merely an observation, then fair enough.

Your comments seemed to belittle Hawking and therefore the concept.  You said that Hawking

Quote

believes there is no God.  Because he can't see or otherwise detect Him.  Yet he believes superintelligent aliens, whom he has likewise not detected or seen, are a danger to humanity.  So I take his warning about superintelligent computers with a grain of salt.

After that, I thought it important to note that he is not the only scientist holding such views.  Those views can stand on their own premises, without any help from Hawking.

[Robert F. Smith]

9 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

.....................................As for superintelligent aliens, consider the Fermi Paradox.  I'm not worried.  If they were out there and could come visiting, they would have done so already. ............................................

That assumes, first of all, that such superintelligent beings would want to visit, that it mattered to them, which is not an assumption which we can prove -- QED.  It assumes a great deal on something about which we know essentially nothing, i.e., insofar as normative secular science is concerned.

Second, they do come visiting on a regular basis, and are intimately related to us, and actually engineered this planet and solar system.  Their technology is so far advanced that it constitutes an entirely different order of reality than we are familiar with, which is why the Fermi Paradox seems so reasonable and relevant to secular science.

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Your comments seemed to belittle Hawking and therefore the concept.  You said that Hawking

After that, I thought it important to note that he is not the only scientist holding such views.  Those views can stand on their own premises, without any help from Hawking.

Not belittling Hawking. I have a great of admiration and respect for him. I've read A Brief History of Time, enjoyed it, and learned from it. 

I find it ironic that Hawking and others like him can simultaneously proclaim there is no Creator, because they can't see evidence of such a being, and at the same time warn about the possibility of intelligent aliens, which they also cannot see evidence of.  And I think I am justified in disrespecting arguments such as these.

I can easily respect the idea that there is no objective scientific evidence for the Creator -- aside from the existence of the Creation. It's a reasonable argument. But warning about unprovable LGMs while denying the Creator is ludicrous and they obviously need a mirror so they can see how silly they look.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

That assumes, first of all, that such superintelligent beings would want to visit, that it mattered to them, which is not an assumption which we can prove -- QED.  It assumes a great deal on something about which we know essentially nothing, i.e., insofar as normative secular science is concerned.

If they don't care about us, wouldn't want to visit, then we are wasting our energy worrying about it. Keep listening, sure, why not, it staves off the boredom perhaps, but what difference does it make?

Quote

Second, they do come visiting on a regular basis, and are intimately related to us, and actually engineered this planet and solar system.  Their technology is so far advanced that it constitutes an entirely different order of reality than we are familiar with, which is why the Fermi Paradox seems so reasonable and relevant to secular science.

Then what are we worried about?  

This is what I don't understand. If they don't exist, or are primitive enough that they can't come visit, we need not worry about it, and Hawking and others who are raising an alarm are wasting their time and energy -- and looking silly in the meantime. If they do exist, and if they can come here, they are so far above us that we don't have a snowball's chance in hell, then again, we are wasting our energy worrying about it.  In short, we have nothing to worry about, unless they showed up like a Vogon Destructor Fleet to eliminate the Earth to make way for a Cosmic Bypass. And in that event we don't have a defense, and are wasting our time and energy worrying about it.  Maybe in 1,000 to 10,000 years we'll have a defense. But not now.

In short, I laugh at the idea that we need to worry about superintelligent aliens showing up to knock over our applecart.  

Even if I happen to be in the process of writing a science fiction novel that tells the story of just exactly that -- humans working to prevent being taken over or destroyed by aliens.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Stargazer