Interesting in light of . . .

[rongo]

. . . what I was told in September by a member of the presidency of the Seventy and another 1Q70. In the Q&A, they were asked about medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and they said that the Church was working on guidelines that would be coming out soon. They also said that it was going to be comprehensive, and that there are issues that aren't issues in the U.S., such as kava, mate, and betel nut that need to be considered.

https://www.afp.com/en/news/826/kava-drink-soothing-stress-ny-millennials-doc-xv2ma1

I'm told that the Church would have a full-scale revolt on their hands in Brazil from active members if mate were added to the WoW restrictions.

It seems to me that anything people just cannot function without informs the spirit and guidance of the WoW, if not the letter. I would include the multitude of LDS who keep stocked up on 64 ounce caffeinated fountain drinks from the gas station throughout their day. They act no different from coffee drinkers who cannot begin their day without coffee.

Interestingly, my 26 year-old native German companion, a university graduate who had served time in jail, insisted that this is largely a mental attitude thing, and that the effects of caffeine are overblown. He said if you drink anything hot in the morning, it will "wake" you up. I found this interesting as an outside observer, because I rarely drink anything hot, and never in the morning. My family really drinks pop/soda very rarely, not so much out of health reasons as it is that we prefer water, milk, or juice.  Water, milk, or juice over carbonated drinks, any day of the week, and twice on Sundays! 

Edited February 1, 2018 by rongo

[Metis_LDS]

I do not understand your post what is the question or the big issue???

[rongo]

Just that kava is increasing in popularity in the United States, and may be a drink that is being considered for Word of Wisdom restrictions. I posted it simply to begin discussion about it. 

Are you familiar with kava? What are your thoughts about its use by LDS?

[hope_for_things]

46 minutes ago, rongo said:

. . . what I was told in September by a member of the presidency of the Seventy and another 1Q70. In the Q&A, they were asked about medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and they said that the Church was working on guidelines that would be coming out soon. They also said that it was going to be comprehensive, and that there are issues that aren't issues in the U.S., such as kava, mate, and betel nut that need to be considered.

https://www.afp.com/en/news/826/kava-drink-soothing-stress-ny-millennials-doc-xv2ma1

I'm told that the Church would have a full-scale revolt on their hands in Brazil from active members if mate were added to the WoW restrictions.

It seems to me that anything people just cannot function without informs the spirit and guidance of the WoW, if not the letter. I would include the multitude of LDS who keep stocked up on 64 ounce caffeinated fountain drinks from the gas station throughout their day. They act no different from coffee drinkers who cannot begin their day without coffee.

Interestingly, my 26 year-old native German companion, a university graduate who had served time in jail, insisted that this is largely a mental attitude thing, and that the effects of caffeine are overblown. He said if you drink anything hot in the morning, it will "wake" you up. I found this interesting as an outside observer, because I rarely drink anything hot, and never in the morning. My family really drinks pop/soda very rarely, not so much out of health reasons as it is that we prefer water, milk, or juice.  Water, milk, or juice over carbonated drinks, any day of the week, and twice on Sundays! 

I think this is evidence for how the current strict avoidance of specifically prohibited substances doesn't work.  It teaches people that those substances are what specifically is wrong, rather than teaching people that being healthy is the point of the WoW.  That's why we have so many crazy soda specialty shops showing up in Utah and other places with large populations of Mormons.  These sodas have tons of sugar and caffeine, and there isn't anything healthy about drinking them.  Yet, since the church hasn't technically condemned them, the members feel like they are obeying the letter of the law by partaking of these substances and living whatever kind of lifestyle they want as long as they avoid those few prohibited substances.  

Honestly, its treating the members like ignorant children.  Instead of teaching them the value of healthy living, its teaching them to outsource their responsibility to some higher authority that will tell them what specifically to avoid in order to technically qualify for compliance with this commandment.  This is offensive and insulting and a complete waste of the original WoW revelation.  

[Metis_LDS]

Not a lot of kava use where I am living.  I was always pointed out for drinking cola and being a member, now I saw in the news

you can buy cola at BYU.

[The Nehor]

Once I realized soda is basically liquid candy I adjusted my intake.

[Metis_LDS]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Once I realized soda is basically liquid candy I adjusted my intake.

When I pursued the cola thing with those members that wanted to modified my use I was told because of the caffeine like coffee.

[smac97]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

. . . what I was told in September by a member of the presidency of the Seventy and another 1Q70. In the Q&A, they were asked about medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and they said that the Church was working on guidelines that would be coming out soon. They also said that it was going to be comprehensive, and that there are issues that aren't issues in the U.S., such as kava, mate, and betel nut that need to be considered.

https://www.afp.com/en/news/826/kava-drink-soothing-stress-ny-millennials-doc-xv2ma1

I'm told that the Church would have a full-scale revolt on their hands in Brazil from active members if mate were added to the WoW restrictions.

It seems to me that anything people just cannot function without informs the spirit and guidance of the WoW, if not the letter. I would include the multitude of LDS who keep stocked up on 64 ounce caffeinated fountain drinks from the gas station throughout their day. They act no different from coffee drinkers who cannot begin their day without coffee.

Interestingly, my 26 year-old native German companion, a university graduate who had served time in jail, insisted that this is largely a mental attitude thing, and that the effects of caffeine are overblown. He said if you drink anything hot in the morning, it will "wake" you up. I found this interesting as an outside observer, because I rarely drink anything hot, and never in the morning. My family really drinks pop/soda very rarely, not so much out of health reasons as it is that we prefer water, milk, or juice.  Water, milk, or juice over carbonated drinks, any day of the week, and twice on Sundays! 

I had heard that recreational use of Kava is discouraged (but not categorically prohibited) in the Pacific Islands.  Is that correct?

Here's a bit from the Church's 2002 D&C Student Manual re: Section 89:

Quote

D&C 89:9. Are Other Drinks Forbidden by the Word of Wisdom?

What about cola drinks, kava, some health or sports drinks, or other drinks containing stimulants? An official statement by the Church’s leaders reads: “With reference to cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken a position on this matter, but the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided.” (Priesthood Bulletin, Feb. 1972, p. 4.)

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

When I pursued the cola thing with those members that wanted to modified my use I was told because of the caffeine like coffee.

I am more concerned about the sugar.

[Metis_LDS]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

I am more concerned about the sugar.

I thank you for your concern.  We need to look after one another by speaking the truth.

[Senator]

So many grey waters for being of intelligence and agency to navigate. What are we to do??

[Danzo]

19 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Once I realized soda is basically liquid candy I adjusted my intake.

Up or down?

[Five Solas]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

. . . what I was told in September by a member of the presidency of the Seventy and another 1Q70. In the Q&A, they were asked about medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and they said that the Church was working on guidelines that would be coming out soon. They also said that it was going to be comprehensive, and that there are issues that aren't issues in the U.S., such as kava, mate, and betel nut that need to be considered.

https://www.afp.com/en/news/826/kava-drink-soothing-stress-ny-millennials-doc-xv2ma1

I'm told that the Church would have a full-scale revolt on their hands in Brazil from active members if mate were added to the WoW restrictions.

It seems to me that anything people just cannot function without informs the spirit and guidance of the WoW, if not the letter. I would include the multitude of LDS who keep stocked up on 64 ounce caffeinated fountain drinks from the gas station throughout their day. They act no different from coffee drinkers who cannot begin their day without coffee.

Interestingly, my 26 year-old native German companion, a university graduate who had served time in jail, insisted that this is largely a mental attitude thing, and that the effects of caffeine are overblown. He said if you drink anything hot in the morning, it will "wake" you up. I found this interesting as an outside observer, because I rarely drink anything hot, and never in the morning. My family really drinks pop/soda very rarely, not so much out of health reasons as it is that we prefer water, milk, or juice.  Water, milk, or juice over carbonated drinks, any day of the week, and twice on Sundays! 

It does seem like providing detailed requirements for compliance is going to take a lot of work.  I don't envy their task.  And I can't help but think of the words of Paul--

Everything is permissible [allowable and lawful] for me; but not all things are helpful [good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things]. Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything or be brought under its power. (1 Corinthians 6:12, Amplified Bible)

Notably Paul didn't go on to provide a "comprehensive" list of the things not helpful.  Nor did he admonish his followers to build & enforce lists of their own.  That's what the Pharisees did, and Paul had once been one of those--but then he was changed.

Just keep Paul in mind when LDS leadership gets round to publishing their "comprehensive" guidelines.  And remember, additions to the gospel are subtractions from grace. 

:0)

--Erik

[The Nehor]

Receiving commandments is a blessing and not a curse. Commandments also do not diminish the grace of the atonement. Nothing can.

[Josh Khinder]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

. . . what I was told in September by a member of the presidency of the Seventy and another 1Q70. In the Q&A, they were asked about medical marijuana and recreational marijuana, and they said that the Church was working on guidelines that would be coming out soon. They also said that it was going to be comprehensive, and that there are issues that aren't issues in the U.S., such as kava, mate, and betel nut that need to be considered.

https://www.afp.com/en/news/826/kava-drink-soothing-stress-ny-millennials-doc-xv2ma1

I'm told that the Church would have a full-scale revolt on their hands in Brazil from active members if mate were added to the WoW restrictions.

It seems to me that anything people just cannot function without informs the spirit and guidance of the WoW, if not the letter. I would include the multitude of LDS who keep stocked up on 64 ounce caffeinated fountain drinks from the gas station throughout their day. They act no different from coffee drinkers who cannot begin their day without coffee.

Interestingly, my 26 year-old native German companion, a university graduate who had served time in jail, insisted that this is largely a mental attitude thing, and that the effects of caffeine are overblown. He said if you drink anything hot in the morning, it will "wake" you up. I found this interesting as an outside observer, because I rarely drink anything hot, and never in the morning. My family really drinks pop/soda very rarely, not so much out of health reasons as it is that we prefer water, milk, or juice.  Water, milk, or juice over carbonated drinks, any day of the week, and twice on Sundays! 

Coffee does seem beneficial, and I see no healthy benefits to sodas 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Josh Khinder

[The Nehor]

Just now, Josh Khinder said:

Coffee does seem beneficial

 

 

I am sure the company Espresso Perfecto, purveyors of coffee beans and espresso machines, has no vested interest in promoting coffee as healthy and is fearlessly telling the truth no matter what the data says.

[HappyJackWagon]

6 minutes ago, Five Solas said:

It does seem like providing detailed requirements for compliance is going to take a lot of work.  I don't envy their task.  And I can't help but think of the words of Paul--

Everything is permissible [allowable and lawful] for me; but not all things are helpful [good for me to do, expedient and profitable when considered with other things]. Everything is lawful for me, but I will not become the slave of anything or be brought under its power. (1 Corinthians 6:12, Amplified Bible)

Notably Paul didn't go on to provide a "comprehensive" list of the things not helpful.  Nor did he admonish his followers to build & enforce lists of their own.  That's what the Pharisees did, and Paul had once been one of those--but then he was changed.

Just keep Paul in mind when LDS leadership gets round to publishing their "comprehensive" guidelines.  And remember, additions to the gospel are subtractions from grace. 

:0)

--Erik

But it's a task of their own making. I hope Rongo's OP is wrong and that the church isn't in the process of creating lists of approved and unapproved drinks/foods. They don't have to create a precise law like the Pharisees did. They could simply take the WoW as stated, as guidance and not by way of commandment. Once they head down the road of making lists they will only get bogged down more. Is green tea on the list? What about products made from green tea? What percentage of green tea is acceptable in a product and how much is too much? What about coffee flavored ice cream? What about energy drinks, decaf coffee, chai, sun tea? Is it only the green leaf tea that is bad or also the white and black? It's all silliness.

Quote

D&C 89:9. Are Other Drinks Forbidden by the Word of Wisdom?

What about cola drinks, kava, some health or sports drinks, or other drinks containing stimulants? An official statement by the Church’s leaders reads: “With reference to cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken a position on this matter, but the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided.” (Priesthood Bulletin, Feb. 1972, p. 4.)

This seems good enough to me. It's good advice. Let the people decide for themselves and don't attempt to command in all things.

[Gray]

25 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I am more concerned about the sugar.

Coke Zero. Just sayin.

[The Mean Farmer]

Kava is a downer.  A drug.  It's addictive.  If you drink too much your skin (especially your hands) get dry and scaly.  You cease to function and just sit there and enjoy your 'low'. 

It looks like dirt water because it basically is dirt water and from what I am told it tastes like dirt water.  I managed to avoid drinking it for 2 years!!

Shaking hands with a someone who drinks WAY too much grog is an experience you will never forget.  Did it all the time while serving in Fiji.      Love those people!!!!

[Tacenda]

This is one of the things I don't miss about being an actively involved believer, the overriding feelings of being ruled over by the teachings of the church. And now finally feeling like I'm a grown up, and make decisions for myself about my body etc. Not that every LDS is like me, I was a weird LDS in that I tried a little too hard to cross the t's and dot the i's.

Funny thing is now, I have no problem with tea/coffee and would drink it if I liked it. But I just don't have a taste for it right now. Sounds like it could help me, more tea though, and I can't get myself in the habit of drinking either. Just my stinking Diet Dr. Pepper!  

So maybe the ban on tea and coffee wasn't a very good WoW rule? Now that it turns many like myself to pop etc?

Edited February 1, 2018 by Tacenda

[Five Solas]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

This is one of the things I don't miss about being an actively involved believer. Funny thing is, I have no problem with tea/coffee and would drink it if I liked it. But I just don't have a taste for it right now. Sounds like it could help me, more tea though, and I can't get myself in the habit of drinking either. Just my stinking Diet Dr. Pepper!  

So maybe the ban on tea and coffee wasn't a very good WoW rule? Now that it turns many like myself to pop etc?

You'd probably be better off drinking any of the above, and beer for that matter, than phosphoric acid.  Even if Pepsi Co. says it's good for you...

;0)

--Erik

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Five Solas said:

You'd probably be better off drinking any of the above, and beer for that matter, than phosphoric acid.  Even if Pepsi Co. says it's good for you...

;0)

--Erik

So true, except for the beer part. Alcohol is a negative in my book.

 

[strappinglad]

As long as they don't prohibit Ayahuasca .It's on my bucket list.

[Jeanne]

What to do if you are addicted to potato chips...really!

[rongo]

1 minute ago, Jeanne said:

What to do if you are addicted to potato chips...really!

Well, Frito Lay's slogan used to be "No one can eat just one."  

Edited February 1, 2018 by rongo