Calm Posted December 30, 2017 Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: As far as Mormons are concerned, I don't consider a non-tithe-payer as any less of a Mormon, and have never considered it the most important requirement in receiving a TR. Of course that is a matter of personal judgment, and I can see how someone might consider that of prime importance. However, it seems to me that one's faithfulness is far more important, and that questions about one's acceptance of the Church leadership mean far more than monetary payments. Also, I don't understand how someone would have to go without the basic necessities, since the bishop would supply those necessities anyhow -- if necessary. Anyhow, Raingirl, once upon a time I was an adult member who did not pay tithing and it did not occur to me that I was a lesser Mormon, and no one seemed at all concerned about it. Of course I had no spare change in those days, was just barely getting by, and no temple nearby. It wasn't until much later that I realized how important temples and a TR were. In the pre-mortal heaven, when they were passing out brains, I thought they said "trains," and I asked for a slow one..... My mom didn't pay tithing for 2 1/2 years without anyone commenting until the stake president who didn't know her needed some info to sign her recommend, the bishop was perfectly happy with a "my son handles that" at her interview (he visited her in her home every couple of months so had at least a half dozen times he could have pushed her to pay it), and outside of a temple recommend interview, no one has ever asked me about it. So I don't see how any in the ward outside of a few people would know who wasn't paying. Edited December 30, 2017 by Calm 2
cacheman Posted December 30, 2017 Posted December 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Calm said: Thanks for pointing out the methodology. I am wondering how they found the names. Thinking the polling company already had them on file as willing to take polls if they had at least 800 out of 1000 responses. Finding 275 Muslims out of a thousand Americans is not random calling. Pollfish is basically a souped up cheaper imitation of surveymonkey. Pollfish had embedded sdks in many different android and ios apps. In the initial user agreement for the apps, users agree for Pollfish to collect all sorts of info found on their mobile device. App developers can further monetize their apps this way. They get a tiny amount of money each time one of their app users reapond to a poll. Some apps incentivise this by offering prizes or to get rid of adds if you complete the survey. The person commissioning the survey (in this instance Lendedu, pretty much a student loan refi marketplace website) can request to target specific demographics. I assume they targeted the three religious groups and then weeded out those who didn't indicate that they contribute financially to their religion. They might have also targeted certain age groups, regions, genders, etc. ...they don't say anything about that. It appears that this is simply a marketing survey repurposed as a clickbait aricle to draw people to their website. It's difficult to draw any meaningful inferences from the poll. 2
rchorse Posted December 30, 2017 Posted December 30, 2017 14 hours ago, cacheman said: What's interesting to me is that the Deseret News felt that this survey was worth an article..... and that Dr Mason had so much to say about it. Even Dr Peterson shared this 'study' on his blog. This survey completed in two days using Pollfish.com, had 825 respondents. Only 275 of them were Christian. The sample size for Mormons was likely very small. ..I'm guessing 12 or possibly 24 based on the percentage data they report (12 would be 4.36% of 275, and I believe the percentage of Christians in the US that are Mormon is around 2.8%). Certainly not enough to provide statistically meaningful results. In fact, like most of the cheap and quick pollfish surveys, there are no measures of statistical significance reported. It seems like a poorly designed, statistically meaningless survey. It doesn't appear to be newsworthy to me. Am I missing something? In glad you pointed this out. After reviewing the methodology myself, I agree that it tells us essentially nothing about Mormons and how they view tithing. It's more an interesting anecdote than anything. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted December 30, 2017 Posted December 30, 2017 You mean, did I feel pressure to pay tithing before the jack-booted, black-clad hit squads armed with assault rifles and flash-bang grenades showed up? What? Oh, sorry. Don't mind me. Carry on!
Calm Posted December 30, 2017 Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, cacheman said: Pollfish is basically a souped up cheaper imitation of surveymonkey. Pollfish had embedded sdks in many different android and ios apps. In the initial user agreement for the apps, users agree for Pollfish to collect all sorts of info found on their mobile device. App developers can further monetize their apps this way. They get a tiny amount of money each time one of their app users reapond to a poll. Some apps incentivise this by offering prizes or to get rid of adds if you complete the survey. The person commissioning the survey (in this instance Lendedu, pretty much a student loan refi marketplace website) can request to target specific demographics. I assume they targeted the three religious groups and then weeded out those who didn't indicate that they contribute financially to their religion. They might have also targeted certain age groups, regions, genders, etc. ...they don't say anything about that. It appears that this is simply a marketing survey repurposed as a clickbait aricle to draw people to their website. It's difficult to draw any meaningful inferences from the poll. Thanks for the info, Makes me wonder if they kept adding Mormons to the survey until they had at least one respond "yes" for all their questions so they wouldn't get a 0% result. And they hit that at 12 Mormon respondents and stopped there as that was already significantly over the percent share Mormons have of the Christian US population. Since they get their respondents from people who use tech and probably weighted towards those who use a lot of it, they are likely run on average younger than the actual cross section of Mormons. This could significantly affect monetary decisions as well as feeling of social pressure. Edited December 30, 2017 by Calm 1
The Nehor Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 The only time I felt I was being pressured for money at Church was at one of those accursed Friends of Scouting drives. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) On 12/28/2017 at 1:09 AM, Meerkat said: Thanks Scott! I so agree with you. I LOVE the principle of tithes and offerings. Obeying that commandment brings me peace of mind and increased faith in my loving Heavenly Father to be there for me when I need Him. When I go to God in prayer, I go in faith that He will open the windows of Heaven and give me what I need, be it comfort, inspiration, material necessities or whatever it may be. My needs have been met in all those areas, and more... and not necessarily what I thought I needed. But God knew, and He has never let me down. I can say in all sincerity that I praise God for the principle of tithes and offerings. Just as obedience to the other commandments contributes to my peace and joy, tithing is more blessing than duty or obligation. See Isaiah 58 for a more thorough explanation of why the principle brings me joy. There is nothing you could do or say that could influence me to withhold my tithing. I see tithes and offerings as a gift-- to me! Thanks for this comment, Meerkat. It is bringing strength and assurance to me for reasons you’ll never know. Edited January 1, 2018 by Scott Lloyd 1
carbon dioxide Posted January 1, 2018 Posted January 1, 2018 Mormons feel the same amount of pressure to pay tithing as following any other commandment. If one wants eternal blessings, one has to follow the commandments.
The Nehor Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 4 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: Mormons feel the same amount of pressure to pay tithing as following any other commandment. If one wants eternal blessings, one has to follow the commandments. Help! Help! I am being repressed! 3
cinepro Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 5 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: Mormons feel the same amount of pressure to pay tithing as following any other commandment. If one wants eternal blessings, one has to follow the commandments. Not all commandments are created equal. And it would be psychologically impossible for LDS to feel equal pressure to obey everything we think is a commandment. I suspect anyone who tried would quickly get burned out. 2
blueglass Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) I've paid in kind the last 3 years. Just emailed the church at donationsinkind and then they sent me the stock transfer account name, " Deseret Trust Company-D" and brokerage firm 2118. Then i just reconcile my reading of JST Gen14 with the annual overplus and split 50/50 with half going to tithing and the other 50% direct to humanitarian aid or LDS philanthropies. Received a thank you note last year in the mail which was nice of them. I once tried to donate a few servers to donationsinkind, and they put me in touch with an IT guy who asked a lot of questions and they were fine with it. The name "tithing settlement" is a bit spooky for me. I usually just send an email to the bishop for a declaration. Should be entirely eliminated, and just send out an email with an account review, in which you check YES everything is ok - or no. transaction#215 should have had 2k sent to "other" - subcategory "LDSS - Nauvoo starship construction". Also it's my feeling that big investment should be made on AI at BYU. We need to turn it into a top rate program to challenge Carnegie mellon or stanford. It will take many years and big investment but if we don't get this right, it could be bad for the church in 20 - 30years. Blaine maxfield cio for the church did a talk for ldstech where he discusses the q15 keen interest in Siri when it came out. They asked him right away to get a prototype phone from apple and give a demonstration and begin testing. I think they were right to be concerned. Edited January 2, 2018 by blueglass
The Nehor Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 21 hours ago, cinepro said: Not all commandments are created equal. And it would be psychologically impossible for LDS to feel equal pressure to obey everything we think is a commandment. I suspect anyone who tried would quickly get burned out. I disagree. Taking the sacrament with your left foot or forgetting an Oxford comma should be as psychologically distressing as cannibalism.
blueglass Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) I forgot to include the link for the direct transfer of securities and the donor login portal to Deseret Trust Co. http://www.deserettrust.com/stocksandbonds.html Also for LDS philanthropies it now has an online portal with over 459 sub-categories to donate directly to. A few examples, [Art- BYU], or [Dean's Priorities - BYU Marriott School], [Ancient Textual Imaging Project - BYU], or the premium, [Cougar Club Legacy VI - ($500,000 initial gift OR $3,500 renewal)] , [LDS Church General Fund], [Church History Fund], etc. Can donate by credit card, e-check or paypal, but no crypto yet. https://ldsp-pay.ldschurch.org/donations/lds-church/ldsp.html?cde2=795& Edited January 4, 2018 by blueglass 1
kiwi57 Posted January 4, 2018 Posted January 4, 2018 On 12/29/2017 at 4:25 PM, rongo said: Both. They lied about paying fully what they should have, but holding back. Not unlike those who don't pay a full tithing, but say that they do. Yes, but Peter reminded them that the money was their own to do with as they pleased. Their error was lying, not choosing to keep a portion of what was theirs in the first place.
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