Rain Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) I've never figured out why anyone says "only in Utah" or some similar thing, especially when they go on to describe some thing that I have seen in every other place my husband and I have been to and found church members (Seattle, San Jose, San Diego, Napa Valley, AZ, ID, WY, TX, LA, TN, NV, NE, NY, Spain, Israel, Italy, France, the Netherlands and Vanuatu) or describe the wonderful ways LDS act in their own city and I have found those things in my Utah wards. Why do people outside of Utah not recognize that their own ward has so called "Utah" problems and why don't people inside of Utah recognize the many loving ward members all around them? Serious question, because If I can see it then why don't others? Edited December 17, 2017 by Rain 3
Rain Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) On 12/16/2017 at 10:22 AM, Jeanne said: I own my own little condo in Utah..but should I ever decide to move...it will be out of this state..There is a fluff in every corner of the lines in the 4 corners. I went to Virginia years ago and kayaked on the ocean and visited people there...I have not breathed since. I suspect that what you felt was not a Utah/Virginia difference or a mormon/non mormon difference, but a southern/western states difference. My mom grew up in Colorado. Lived in Chicago, New Mexico, and moved to Utah without a big difference. Then she moved to Memphis. She loved the warmth of the people, but it was a culture shock for her. The funny thing was that when she moved back to Utah she felt culture shock again. Edited December 17, 2017 by Rain 3
Rain Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 Bad coment I heard in church last week. Mom of an adult son said something like, "and it was just that 'one mistake' he made" referring to her son becoming a father before marriage. New sister in the ward, "well it probably happened more times than once". Probably so, but I'm sure his mom doesn't want to be thinking about that!
Scott Lloyd Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, mfbukowski said: You will find that what concerns Utahns does not concern Mormons in the rest of the world, which is referred to as "The Mission Field". There was a discussion on another thread about staying in "Sunday Clothes" (another Utah-ism) all day on Sundays in order to keep the Sabbath holy. The skirt length deal is in order to keep garments from being exposed, at least in my understanding, but on the other hand modern political correctness mixed with Utahn Correctness prohibits my saying that because I am a man and must not speak of such things. For Utahns this is not "fluff", it IS "fluff" to the rest of the world, in the church or outside the church, because....... well.... because we are not from Utah!! -- From the Mission Field of Los Angeles I was part of that other discussion, so you know this already, but having been reared as a Mormon in Utah and having lived most of my life just 15 miles from Church headquarters, I have <never> encountered the practice, much less the mandate, of staying in “Sunday clothes” all day on Sunday. It is no more a “Utah-ism” than any other quirky eccentricity. By the way, I haven’t heard the term “mission field” used in the way you indicate in more than a generation. Nice way to invoke outdated stereotypes. Edited December 17, 2017 by Scott Lloyd 2
Tacenda Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 Not to get all serious but Utah stands out amongst other states as having the highest in drug addiction, suicides etc. What is going on? Something is. Is it the guilt problem? Why are they trying to escape using these methods? Why are some leaving Utah and never wanting to come back. Too bad because of the beautiful scenary, minus the smog.
Jeanne Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 12 hours ago, Rain said: I suspect that what you felt was not a Utah/Virginia difference or a mormon/non mormon difference, but a southern/western stares difference. My mom grew up in Colorado. Lived in Chicago, New Mexico, and moved to Utah without a big difference. Then she moved to Memphis. She loved the warmth of the people, but it was a culture shock for her. The funny thing was that when she moved back to Utah she felt culture shock again. You know what?? Kindness or not..culture or whatever....This Utah girl kept looking for the mountains!! I sincerely thought I would just drop off the side the earth...it was like there was no destination to be found...!! 1
Scott Lloyd Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: Not to get all serious but Utah stands out amongst other states as having the highest in drug addiction, suicides etc. What is going on? Something is. Is it the guilt problem? Why are they trying to escape using these methods? Why are some leaving Utah and never wanting to come back. Too bad because of the beautiful scenary, minus the smog. CFR that Utah has higher suicide and drug addiction rates than all other states.
The Nehor Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: Not to get all serious but Utah stands out amongst other states as having the highest in drug addiction, suicides etc. What is going on? Something is. Is it the guilt problem? Why are they trying to escape using these methods? Why are some leaving Utah and never wanting to come back. Too bad because of the beautiful scenary, minus the smog. Maybe it is just hard to be around Mormons?
Rain Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jeanne said: You know what?? Kindness or not..culture or whatever....This Utah girl kept looking for the mountains!! I sincerely thought I would just drop off the side the earth...it was like there was no destination to be found...!! That I can understand, though you can get it in other states like CO etc. Since moving to Mesa I have completely lost my direction. Few mountains nearby and often I can't see them at all. I've tried to use the sun, but it just isn't working for me! Edited December 18, 2017 by Rain
mfbukowski Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I was part of that other discussion, so you know this already, but having been reared as a Mormon in Utah and having lived most of my life just 15 miles from Church headquarters, I have <never> encountered the practice, much less the mandate, of staying in “Sunday clothes” all day on Sunday. It is no more a “Utah-ism” than any other quirky eccentricity. By the way, I haven’t heard the term “mission field” used in the way you indicate in more than a generation. Nice way to invoke outdated stereotypes. Next time I see it I will let you know. I hear it all the time. Stereotypes usually have a basis. If it used to be the case, I can guarantee that it still exists somewhere. I still see some Mormons uncomfortable around black people. Outdated stereotypes do not disappear overnight. I have seen reactions when a "black" hand comes out through the veil. They are not expecting it. Scott I am not quite sure why you are so adamant in your defense of every tiny point about the wonderfulness of Utah and that the church and its leaders are perfect at all times in every possible circumstance, and your diligence in weeding out everything you see as challenging that. To me it actually takes credibility away from your positions. You doth protest too much. Edited December 17, 2017 by mfbukowski 1
Scott Lloyd Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Next time I see it I will let you know. I hear it all the time. Stereotypes usually have a basis. If it used to be the case, I can guarantee that it still exists somewhere. I still see some Mormons uncomfortable around black people. Outdated stereotypes do not disappear overnight. I have seen reactions when a "black" hand comes out through the veil. They are not expecting it. Scott I am not quite sure why you are so adamant in your defense of every tiny point about the wonderfulness of Utah and that the church and its leaders are perfect at all times in every possible circumstance, and your diligence in weeding out everything you see as challenging that. To me it actually takes credibility away from your positions. You doth protest too much. I’ll detect and expose BS when I see it, especially when it’s unjust. I love the Church and regard its leaders as friends. It would be craven of me not to defend them when I can. Edited December 17, 2017 by Scott Lloyd 1
mfbukowski Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I’ll detect and expose BS when I see it, especially when it’s unjust. I love the Church and regatd it’s leaders as friends. It would be craven of me not to defend them when I can. Of course I did not challenge the leaders, nor does the phrase "mission field" challenge them either and yes, even I have friends among Leaders.
Scott Lloyd Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 1 minute ago, mfbukowski said: Of course I did not challenge the leaders, nor does the phrase "mission field" challenge them either and yes, even I have friends among Leaders. I don’t doubt that.
bluebell Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I was part of that other discussion, so you know this already, but having been reared as a Mormon in Utah and having lived most of my life just 15 miles from Church headquarters, I have <never> encountered the practice, much less the mandate, of staying in “Sunday clothes” all day on Sunday. It is no more a “Utah-ism” than any other quirky eccentricity. By the way, I haven’t heard the term “mission field” used in the way you indicate in more than a generation. Nice way to invoke outdated stereotypes. My parents had a really nice sister (their age so in her 50s or 60s), call Billings Montana “the mission field” this summer. They were at the Billings temple at the time and my mother struck up a conversation with her because she found the phrase funny. The sister was visiting from Utah. I don’t think the practice is as outdated as you think it is. 2
Tacenda Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: CFR that Utah has higher suicide and drug addiction rates than all other states. Well that's what I keep hearing, have you watched the news lately, several times this year they said we had the highest suicide rates. And in the video they said it again, but said it's all ages not just the youth. And Scott you haven't heard about the drug epidemic in Utah? That also has been in the news of late. http://www.sltrib.com/news/health/2017/09/13/seeking-to-counter-trend-utah-confirmed-suicides-for-2017-utah-on-pace-to-beat-last-years-record/ " How Do We Compare With the U.S.? Utah's suicide rate has been consistently higher than the national rate. In 2015, according to the National Center for Health Statistics, the suicide rate for the U.S. ages 10+ was 15.7 per 100,000 population ages 10+ while Utah's suicide rate was 24.5 per 100,000 population ages 10+ during the same time period." https://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=43257726 http://www.good4utah.com/news/utah-ranks-4th-highest-in-nation-for-drug-overdose-deaths/442143416 In this article it mentions we're the 4th highest. So I guess we're not the highest overall, but certainly it's not looking good.
Scott Lloyd Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: Well that's what I keep hearing, have you watched the news lately, several times this year they said we had the highest suicide rates. And in the video they said it again, but said it's all ages not just the youth. And Scott you haven't heard about the drug epidemic in Utah? That also has been in the news of late. http://www.sltrib.com/news/health/2017/09/13/seeking-to-counter-trend-utah-confirmed-suicides-for-2017-utah-on-pace-to-beat-last-years-record/ " How Do We Compare With the U.S.? Utah's suicide rate has been consistently higher than the national rate. In 2015, according to the National Center for Health Statistics, the suicide rate for the U.S. ages 10+ was 15.7 per 100,000 population ages 10+ while Utah's suicide rate was 24.5 per 100,000 population ages 10+ during the same time period." https://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=43257726 http://www.good4utah.com/news/utah-ranks-4th-highest-in-nation-for-drug-overdose-deaths/442143416 In this article it mentions we're the 4th highest. So I guess we're not the highest overall, but certainly it's not looking good. I’m aware of the news reports. You did say “Utah stands out among other states as having the highest” etc. I took that to mean highest rates in the nation, hence my challenge. It appears to be a regional phenomenon, with Utah the lowest among the mountain states. That would undercut the supposition that it is attributable to Church influence, as Utah has the highest density of Mormons in population. I’ve heard it theorized that it has something to do with altitude or the accessibility of firearms, but last I heard, no one has been able to pinpoint a cause. I note that the KSL report said the opioid use was highest in Carbon County. That has one of the lowest densities — if not the lowest — of Mormons in the state due to the coal mining industry and the proportion of non-native Utahns who have gone there to work. (I spent the first 2 1/2 years of my career in Carbon County.) Edited December 18, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
Scott Lloyd Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 37 minutes ago, bluebell said: My parents had a really nice sister (their age so in her 50s or 60s), call Billings Montana “the mission field” this summer. They were at the Billings temple at the time and my mother struck up a conversation with her because she found the phrase funny. The sister was visiting from Utah. I don’t think the practice is as outdated as you think it is. I don’t doubt it persists among some old timers, but I don’t see it as being pervasive anymore, not in terms of everywhere outside of Utah being called “the mission field.”
JulieM Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I don’t doubt it persists among some old timers, but I don’t see it as being pervasive anymore, not in terms of everywhere outside of Utah being called “the mission field.” Weird because I still hear it often. Maybe it’s more said by members outside of Utah referring to themselves and that’s why you no longer hear it?
Scott Lloyd Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, JulieM said: Weird because I still hear it often. Maybe it’s more said by members outside of Utah referring to themselves and that’s why you no longer hear it? Could be. I wonder if some are doing it in mockery of what they think Mormons in Utah do.
JulieM Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: Could be. I wonder if some are doing it in mockery of what they think Mormons in Utah do. No, not at all from how I hear it used. I’m not even sure what to think about that (mockery?). Why would you think that?
Scott Lloyd Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, JulieM said: No, not at all from how I hear it used. I’m not even sure what to think about that (mockery?). Why would you think that? Only because I perceive that some Mormons outside of Utah resent being thought of as living in “the mission field.”
JulieM Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Only because I perceive that some Mormons outside of Utah resent being thought of as living in “the mission field.” Not from my experience. Why would someone resent living outside or Utah or having the opportunity to live in what is considered to be the mission field? I’m being sincere and honest here and find your impression to be really odd. Edited December 18, 2017 by JulieM
Scott Lloyd Posted December 18, 2017 Posted December 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, JulieM said: Not from my experience. Why would someone resent living outside or Utah or having the opportunity to live in what is considered to be the mission field? I’m being sincere and honest here and find your impression to be really odd. I didn’t say they resent living outside of Utah, only that some might not like having where they live referred to as “the mission field.” It’s only an impression I’ve gotten. I haven’t taken any opinion polls or done any focus-group research. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. Mfbukowski’s post is the most recent instance I’ve seen of someone referring to his place of residence as “the mission field.” Perhaps he could tell is why he did that.
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