Understanding Adam-God

[co-eternal]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

You've missed a couple important trees. JS' later October 5th 1839 statement about Adam clarifies: "These angels are under the direction of Michael or Adam who acts under the direction of Christ."

Also, all the stuff I wrote to JHL just earlier today is relevant: 

 

I've probably missed a number of trees. But you have missed both the point and the forest. Can you really say, in light of the quote in my previous post, and the myriad of others that flat out say Adam is the Father of our spirits and the father of Christ, that Joseph believed any different. Just like my last post, is it possible that all those trees you say I missed are in harmony with the forest? 

Joseph and Brigham had no intention for the saints to bicker over the pecking order on the Gods. That was never their intention. Their intention was to teach us what we needed to know to see the big picture.

That big picture, the forest. is that spirits become Gods through proper participation in Generations of Time, Eternal rounds, or Eternal Lives. That forest is made of grove after grove after grove after grove .... With each Grove having a beginning and and ending marked by redemption as told by D&C 93:38 and Ether 3:14. And the trees within those groves are the events that fall between redemptions and those that fulfill roles in each event.  By fulfilling those roles, we gain the characteristics and attributes to eventually fulfill the Role of Christ followed by Adam followed by Elohim ...

This is what they wanted us to understand, they wanted us to rise to that understanding. It is why Joseph restored these truths and taught them to Brigham, John Wilford. Joseph knew he would not be able to do it in his life, so he focused on teaching the Apostles so they could carry on his work when gone. And they all died with their testimonies intact. None of them ever withdrew or recanted what  they taught.

If this is not your intent, to rise to the understanding of this picture, then leave it alone. Let it be, find another hobby(geneology).

But cease bickering over the pecking order of Gods.

[Benjamin Seeker]

2 hours ago, co-eternal said:

I've probably missed a number of trees. But you have missed both the point and the forest. Can you really say, in light of the quote in my previous post, and the myriad of others that flat out say Adam is the Father of our spirits and the father of Christ, that Joseph believed any different.

Sorry if it came across like I missed your point. I understood. Your position is that JS taught Adam-God in the same form that Brigham did. My position is that he almost certainly did not. I am familiar with your quote on Brigham saying JS taught it; I also quoted it and other relevant quotes in my first post in this thread. I find that there are big discrepancies between the recorded teachings of Joseph Smith and what Brigham said, which make it very unlikely JS taught Adam-God, at least in the form Brigham taught.

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Just like my last post, is it possible that all those trees you say I missed are in harmony with the forest?

I don't think these differences can be harmonized. I should clarify that I approach all of this like a historian, not as someone trying to prescribe or proscribe a specific belief system for myself or others. 

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Joseph and Brigham had no intention for the saints to bicker over the pecking order on the Gods. That was never their intention. Their intention was to teach us what we needed to know to see the big picture.

I apologize if I've come off negatively. Your right; there is no need to bicker. However, I am interested in arriving to the truth of the matter, and I don't think the differences should be minimized as a pecking order. If Brigham believed that Adam was God the Father and Joseph didn't, then that is certainly worth discussing, debating, etc. 

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That big picture, the forest. is that spirits become Gods through proper participation in Generations of Time, Eternal rounds, or Eternal Lives. That forest is made of grove after grove after grove after grove .... With each Grove having a beginning and and ending marked by redemption as told by D&C 93:38 and Ether 3:14. And the trees within those groves are the events that fall between redemptions and those that fulfill roles in each event.  By fulfilling those roles, we gain the characteristics and attributes to eventually fulfill the Role of Christ followed by Adam followed by Elohim ...

I disagree, as a matter of history, that this big picture you're describing is what JS arrived to in the 1840s. The only explicit contemporary evidence we have on the roles of exaltion is JS teaching that celestial heirs would go on to fill the role of Christ. However, if we move on to later remembrances and reports, we do have quotes from Brigham and others which infer that JS believed celestial heirs would fill the role of Adam. If JS did teach that, and given the quotes by Brigham and others I believe he likely did, I don't think he taught that the role of Adam came after Christ, as that has too many conflicts with other teaching in the Nauvoo period. Additionally, if JS did teach that the Saints would fill the role Adam, the order of the authority would most likely reflect the order of the roles to be filled. JS taught that the saints will move from one exaltation to the other, like climbing a ladder.

 Returning to "Christ is the great High priest, Adam next," there is additional important information earlier in that same sermon. JS taught, "The Father called all spirits before him at the creation of Man & organized them [I Abraham saw the intelligences which were organized before the world was] . He (Adam) is the head, was told to multiply. The Keys were given to him [Adam], and by him to others & he will have to give an account of his Stewardship." Here JS subjugates Adam to "the Father."

Earlier in the same sermon, JS had already described the account of Adam's stewardship. "Dan VII Speaks of the Ancient of days, he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael; he will call his children together, & hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He, (Adam) is the Father of the human family & presides over the Spirits of all men, & all that have had the Keys must stand before him in this great Council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him & there is given him glory & dominion.--Adam delivers up his Stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the Keys of the Universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family."

In other words, Adam retains some of his authority but delivers his larger stewardship up to Christ. This is consistent with the quote I've already given that "Adam acts under the direction of Christ," and implies that the phrase "Adam next" indicates that Adam is next in authority under Christ.

Another important quote from July 9, 1843, "After God had created the Heavens and the Earth. He came down and on the sixth day said let us make man in our own image. In whose image. ln the image of Gods created they them. Male and female: innocent harmless and spotless bearing the same character and the same image as the Gods. And when man fell he did not lose his image but his character still retaining the image of his maker Christ who is the image of man is also the express image of his fathers person so says Paul. For in him Christ dwelt the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Why because He was the brightness of his glory; and the express image of his person. Ques. What person Gods person. Hebrews 1st chap 3 verse And through the atonement of Christ and the resurrection and obediance in the Gospel we shall again be conformed to the image of his Son Jesus Christ, then we shall have attained to the image glory and character of God." Here, Joseph taught that Christ was the maker of Adam. This is another vote for him as Jehovah in the Nauvoo endowment, which again places him in greater authority, or in a higher exaltation if you like, than Micheal/Adam. He also says that in Christ dwelt the "fulness of the Godhead bodily." In other words, Christ was the fullest embodiment of God on earth, and it seems like JS would have applied that description to Adam, not Christ, if he had believed that Adam was God the Father.

All of that being said, I do think it's possible that JS taught that Adam was the Father of our spirits though still being under Christ (see my first post in this thread; it really is worth a read if you haven't yet), and if JS equated Adam with the Holy Ghost in some sense then it's conceivable that JS taught that Adam was the father of Jesus Christ's body in the immaculate conception sense (attributed in the scriptures to the Holy Ghost). This would be fairly similar to Brigham's version of Adam-God, just with a reverse order of roles. Essentially, I believe that JS may have attributed spiritual fatherhood of the human race to Adam, but maintained that Christ was an exaltation ahead of Adam, and that God the Father was of course above Christ. This would make God the Father the Father of Jesus Christ, the grandfather of Adam, and the great grandfather of the human family. Fun stuff.  

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This is what they wanted us to understand, they wanted us to rise to that understanding. It is why Joseph restored these truths and taught them to Brigham, John Wilford. Joseph knew he would not be able to do it in his life, so he focused on teaching the Apostles so they could carry on his work when gone. And they all died with their testimonies intact. None of them ever withdrew or recanted what  they taught.

I don't think it's accurate to say that he taught the apostles because he knew he wouldn't be able to teach it in this life. In an earlier post I demonstrated that JS was teaching most or all of the King Follet sermon content, which is foundational to what we are talking about, as early as 1840. That would have been plenty of time to teach it openly multiple times, but instead he appears to have largely held it back. It's more likely that he taught these doctrines we are debating privately to his apostles and other of his inner circle who he felt were prepared to receive. This is a pattern he commonly follows, keeping the inner circle more up to date and only introducing things to the more public church later on, perhaps when he felt they were more receptive or otherwise prepared.

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If this is not your intent, to rise to the understanding of this picture, then leave it alone. Let it be, find another hobby(geneology).

But cease bickering over the pecking order of Gods.

Early church history, especially, JS' teachings, theology, and texts are a passion of mine, and where there is strong evidence, I will continue to make my case. I'll try not to so confrontationally!

Edited December 5, 2017 by Benjamin Seeker

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Everything is story.

The deal is, it doesn't matter if it is literal or figurative- if you believe it, it changes your life and that is what matters.  Choice between good and evil makes us human.

The only thing important is that it is the STORY and the realization of the importance of choice that changes your life.   I don't know why that is so hard for some to understand/believe.

If I think Adam was figurative and I take the story as a metaphor about my life and my life changes it is no different from believing he was a "real person" and having that change my life, I get it.  I get that without choice we are less than human.

And the simple fact that "what really happened" is up for grabs confirms "what really happened" as irrelevant to our lives.   It is so simple.

And we are told to "liken" the narrative to us.   What else could that possibly mean?

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

Sorry if it came across like I missed your point. I understood. Your position is that JS taught Adam-God in the same form that Brigham did. My position is that he almost certainly did not. I am familiar with your quote on Brigham saying JS taught it; I also quoted it and other relevant quotes in my first post in this thread. I find that there are big discrepancies between the recorded teachings of Joseph Smith and what Brigham said, which make it very unlikely JS taught Adam-God, at least in the form Brigham taught.

How would our lives be different if we believed one version rather than the other?

[CMZ]

duplicate post

Edited December 5, 2017 by CMZ
duplicate post

[CMZ]

On 11/26/2017 at 9:49 PM, Benjamin Seeker said:

I also don't have any statements at all by JS equating Adam with the Holy Ghost

"Adam … was the first man, who is spoken of in Daniel as being the ‘Ancient of Days’ [Daniel 7:9], or in other words, the first and oldest of all, the great, grand progenitor of whom it is said in another place he is Michael, because he was the first and father of all, not only by progeny, but the first to hold the spiritual blessings, to whom was made known the plan of ordinances for the salvation of his posterity unto the end, and to whom Christ was first revealed, and through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven, and will continue to be revealed from henceforth. Adam holds the keys of the dispensation of the fullness of times; i.e., the dispensation of all the times have been and will be revealed through him from the beginning to Christ, and from Christ to the end of all the dispensations that are to be revealed...."

"This, then, is the nature of the Priesthood; every man holding the Presidency of his dispensation, and one man holding the Presidency of them all, even Adam; and Adam receiving his Presidency and authority from the Lord, but cannot receive a fullness until Christ shall present the Kingdom to the Father, which shall be at the end of the last dispensation." (In this quote at least Adam, Christ, and the Father are three distinct beings... and it is clear that Adam does not now have and will not receive a fullness "until Christ shall present the Kingdom to the Father." Something to think about.)

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-8?lang=eng&_r=1#title6

Edited December 5, 2017 by CMZ
left a word out before

[Benjamin Seeker]

35 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

How would our lives be different if we believed one version rather than the other?

They aren’t! It’s just fun to dive in and figure it out.

 

24 minutes ago, CMZ said:

"Adam … was the first man, who is spoken of in Daniel as being the ‘Ancient of Days’ [Daniel 7:9], or in other words, the first and oldest of all, the great, grand progenitor of whom it is said in another place he is Michael, because he was the first and father of all, not only by progeny, but the first to hold the spiritual blessings, to whom was made known the plan of ordinances for the salvation of his posterity unto the end, and to whom Christ was first revealed, and through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven, and will continue to be revealed from henceforth. Adam holds the keys of the dispensation of the fullness of times; i.e., the dispensation of all the times have been and will be revealed through him from the beginning to Christ, and from Christ to the end of all the dispensations that are to be revealed...."

"This, then, is the nature of the Priesthood; every man holding the Presidency of his dispensation, and one man holding the Presidency of them all, even Adam; and Adam receiving his Presidency and authority from the Lord, but cannot receive a fullness until Christ shall present the Kingdom to the Father, which shall be at the end of the last dispensation." (In this quote at least Adam, Christ, and the Father are three distinct beings... and it is clear that Adam does not now and will not receive a fullness "until Christ shall present the Kingdom to the Father." Something to think about.)

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-8?lang=eng&_r=1#title6

It took me a second to understand what you were getting at with the first quote, but once it dawned on me it’s pretty convincing! I’m stealing that all the way.  And the second quote is a fantastic example countering Brigham’s Adam-God. Thanks!

Edited December 5, 2017 by Benjamin Seeker

[co-eternal]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

I disagree, as a matter of history, that this big picture you're describing is what JS arrived to in the 1840s. The only explicit contemporary evidence we have on the roles of exaltion is JS teaching that celestial heirs would go on to fill the role of Christ. However, if we move on to later remembrances and reports, we do have quotes from Brigham and others which infer that JS believed celestial heirs would fill the role of Adam. If JS did teach that, and given the quotes by Brigham and others I believe he likely did, I don't think he taught that the role of Adam came after Christ, as that has too many conflicts with other teaching in the Nauvoo period. Additionally, if JS did teach that the Saints would fill the role Adam, the order of the authority would most likely reflect the order of the roles to be filled. JS taught that the saints will move from one exaltation to the other, like climbing a ladder.

He did not even trust the apostles with all he knew. He said he looked into the heavens and say it all,

It is interesting, he says we on't kn ow who he is. Why not, he told us more than one who he is. The D&C tells us who he is, what his identity is, yet the vast majority don't know.  I know who he is, and I know others that know. How do we know. Because we listened to him when he told us.

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“If I were to reveal the things that God has revealed to me, if I were to reveal to this people the doctrines
that I know are for their exaltation, these men would spill my blood.” (George A. Smith quoting Joseph
Smith. JD 2:217)
“I have asked the Lord to take me away. I have to seal my testimony to this generation with my blood. I
have to do it for this work will never progress until I am gone for the testimony is of no force until the
testator is dead. People little know who I am when they talk about me, and they never will know until
they see me weighed in the balance in the Kingdom of God. Then they will know who I am, and see
me as I am. I dare not tell them and they do not know me.” (Joseph Smith as quoted by Mary Elizabeth
Rollins Lightner, Plural wife of the Prophet, BYU, 1905)
“‘Many men,’ said he, ‘will say, I will never forsake you, but will stand by you at all times’, but the
moment you teach them some of the mysteries of the kingdom of God that are retained in the heavens, and
are prepared for them, they will be the first to stone you and put you to death. It was this same principle
that crucified the Lord Jesus Christ, and will cause the people to kill the prophets in this generation. Would
to God, brethren, I could tell you who I am! Would to God I could tell you what I know! But you
would call it blasphemy, and there are men upon this stand who would want to take my life.” (Joseph
Smith, Jr., as quoted by Heber C. Kimball, Life of Heber C. Kimball, by Orson F. Whitney, pg. 322-323)
“But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation it has been like
splitting hemlock knots with a corn doger for a wedge & a pumpkin for a beetle, Even [sic] the Saints are
slow to understand I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the saints prepared to
receive the things of God, but we frequently see some of them after suffering all they have for the
work of God will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions,
they cannot stand the fire at all, How [sic] many will be able to abide a Celestial law & go through &
receive their exaltation I am unable to say but many are called & few are chosen.” (The Words of Joseph
Smith, pg. 319)
“If I should reveal the things that God has revealed to me, there are some on this stand that would
cut my throat or take my hearts blood.” (Joseph Robinson Quoting Joseph Smith. See Joseph Smith; The
Prophet, The Man pg. 28)

History for the sake of history is sad when there are beautiful eternal truths to be had.

To know exactly how the blood of Christ sanctifies and justifies and perfect us.

To know how the Atonement compensates for all the inequities of this world, for it all to be perfectly fair for all.

These are but a few of the things of value.

[Benjamin Seeker]

2 minutes ago, co-eternal said:

He did not even trust the apostles with all he knew. He said he looked into the heavens and say it all,

It is interesting, he says we on't kn ow who he is. Why not, he told us more than one who he is. The D&C tells us who he is, what his identity is, yet the vast majority don't know.  I know who he is, and I know others that know. How do we know. Because we listened to him when he told us.

History for the sake of history is sad when there are beautiful eternal truths to be had.

To know exactly how the blood of Christ sanctifies and justifies and perfect us.

To know how the Atonement compensates for all the inequities of this world, for it all to be perfectly fair for all.

These are but a few of the things of value.

Sounds like we should agree to disagree on a number of issues, and that’s OK.

[co-eternal]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

All of that being said, I do think it's possible that JS taught that Adam was the Father of our spirits though still being under Christ (see my first post in this thread; it really is worth a read if you haven't yet), and if JS equated Adam with the Holy Ghost in some sense then it's conceivable that JS taught that Adam was the father of Jesus Christ's body in the immaculate conception sense (attributed in the scriptures to the Holy Ghost). This would be fairly similar to Brigham's version of Adam-God, just with a reverse order of roles. Essentially, I believe that JS may have attributed spiritual fatherhood of the human race to Adam, but maintained that Christ was an exaltation ahead of Adam, and that God the Father was of course above Christ. This would make God the Father the Father of Jesus Christ, the grandfather of Adam, and the great grandfather of the human family. Fun stuff.  

Here are just a few that disagree:

Not subject to death when he [Adam] was placed upon the earth, there had to come a change in his body through the partaking of this … fruit that brought blood into his body; and blood became the life of the body instead of spirit. And blood has in it the seeds of death, some mortal element. Mortality was created through the eating of the forbidden fruit. (Fall-Atonement-Resurrection-Sacrament, 125)

Why did Adam come here? Not subject to death when he was placed upon the earth, there had to come a change in his body through the partaking of this element--whatever you want to call it, fruit--that brought blood into his body; and blood became the life of the body instead of spirit. And blood has in it the seeds of death, some mortal element. Mortality was created through the eating of forbidden fruit, if you want to call it forbidden, but I think the Lord has made it clear that it was not forbidden. He merely said to Adam, if you want to stay here [in the garden] this is the situation. If so, don't eat it. ("The Sacrament and the Atonement," address given at the LDS institute of religion, Salt Lake City, 14 Jan. 1961, 5)
Boyd K. Packer (Quorum of the Twelve)
The word fall describes well what transpired when Adam and Eve were driven from the garden. A transformation took place which made them “a little lower than the angels.” (In the Hebrew text, the word “angel” is given as “gods,” see Ps 8:5, Heb 2:7-9.) The bodies formed for mankind became temporal or physical bodies. The scriptures say “the life of all flesh is in the blood thereof” (Lev 17:11-13; Deut 12:23; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 199-200, 367 Kimball 5-6).
After the transformation caused by the Fall, bodies of flesh and bone and blood (unlike our spirit bodies), would not endure forever. Somehow the ingredient blood carried with it a limit to life. It was as though a clock were set and a time given. Thereafter, all living things moved inexorably toward mortal or temporal death. Temporal, I repeat, means temporary. ("The Law and the Light," Book of Mormon Symposium, BYU, 30 October 1988).
Harold B. Lee (Quorum of the Twelve)
Adam and Eve had now exercised their agency and of their own volition had partaken of the fruit of which they were commanded not to eat,and thus they had become subject to the law of Satan.... Instead of spirit fluid, which had made them not subject to death, there had now come another element. The life of the body is the blood, and in the bloodstream there were to be found the seeds that were to bring about their mortal death. ("The Fall of Man," Lecture Given to Seminary and Institute Teachers, June 23, 1954, Brigham Young University)
 



"I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom . . . I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

“I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” says Joseph Smith (History of the Church, 6:477; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on June 16, 1844, in Nauvoo, Illinois, Grove East of Temple; reported by Thomas Bullock)


“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

...Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, aBrigham Young in the Desert News, June 18, 1873 How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine, which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and Godnd she was called Eve, because she was the first women upon this earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys to everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth..."well," says one " Why was Adam called Adam"? He was the first man on earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren brought it into existence. Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery?

Brigham Young 1852-08-15 I will now read a little in this book, called the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, pertaining to the subject we had before us last Sabbath. I will read a part of a short revelation, in order to exhibit some items of doctrine that are not generally understood, although it is before the people. All people who are disposed, have the privilege of reading this book for themselves; for it has been published to the world for some years. The Saints read it and have the privilege of understanding it, if they choose. Still, as I observed, we are in the school and keep learning, and we do not expect to cease learning while we live on earth; and when we pass through the veil, we expect still to continue to learn and increase our fund of information. That may appear a strange idea to some; but it is for the plain and simple reason that we are not capacitated to receive all knowledge at once. We must therefore receive a little here and a little there. [6:286:4]

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret…We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple.

It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible… The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the son power - to do what? Why what the Father did. The answer is obvious - in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And, I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me... What did Jesus Do? ‘Why I do the things I saw my father do when worlds came rolling into existence, my Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my father so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, an it will exalt Him in glory, He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself.’ So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn the First Principles of the Gospel, about which so much has been said. When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top…It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.” (Excerpts from the King Follet Discourse, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345-348)

“My next sermon will be to both Saint and sinner. One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God, upon which subject the Elders of Israel have conflicting views. Our God and Father in heaven, is a being of tabernacle, or, in other words, He has a body, with parts the same as you and I have; and is capable of showing forth His works to organized beings, as, for instance, in the world in which we live, it is the result of the knowledge and infinite wisdom that dwell in His organized body. His son Jesus Christ has become a personage of tabernacle, and has a body like his father. The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Lord, and issues forth from Himself, and may properly be called God's minister to execute His will in immensity; being called to govern by His influence and power; but He is not a person of tabernacle as we are, and as our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ are. The question has been, and is often, asked, who it was that begat the Son of the Virgin Mary. The infidel world have concluded that if what the Apostles wrote about his father and mother be true, and the present marriage discipline acknowledged by Christendom be correct, then Christians must believe that God is the father of an illegitimate son, in the person of Jesus Christ! The infidel fraternity teach that to their disciples. I will tell you how it is. Our Father in Heaven begat all the spirits that ever were, or ever will be, upon this earth; and they were born spirits in the eternal world. Then the Lord by His power and wisdom organized the mortal tabernacle of man. We were made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal. Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken—HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, and thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal. When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so on in succession. I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone. I have heard men preach upon the divinity of Christ, and exhaust all the wisdom they possessed. All Scripturalists, and approved theologians who were considered exemplary for piety and education, have undertaken to expound on this subject, in every age of the Christian era; and after they have done all, they are obliged to conclude by exclaiming ‘great is the mystery of godliness,’ and tell nothing. It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, ‘it is an immaterial substance!’ What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost… Treasure up these things in your hearts. In the Bible, you have read the things I have told you to-night; but you have not known what you did read. I have told you no more than you are conversant with; but what do the people in Christendom, with the Bible in their hands, know about this subject? Comparatively nothing.” (JD 1: 50-52. Capitols in Original.)

A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow, the life giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in s remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegraye and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal. The ensign p. 56; First Presidency Message; President Spencer w. Kimbal; Absolute Truth; Sept 1978

Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)

“One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God… [and] Our God and Father in heaven… When our father Adam came into the

garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! About whom holy men have written and spoken – He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do… I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone… Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the Garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told… Treasure up these things in your hearts.” (JD 1: 50-51, CAPITALS in the original.)


“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)

How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine, which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God...Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first women upon this earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys to everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth..."well," says one " Why was Adam called Adam"? He was the first man on earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren brought it into existence. Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery? (Brigham Young in the Desert News, June 18, 1873)

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

"Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon earth, When you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobies from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle words devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell.... Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh, and I would not say that they are not also the parents of our spirits." ( Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, pp. 285, 290)
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, pp. 285, 290;
"Some may think what I have said concerning Adam strange, but the period will come when the people will be willing to adopt Joseph Smith as their Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and God! but not the Father of their spirits, for that was our Father Adam."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal History, p. 131, December 11, 1869;
"Before me I see a house full of Eves. What a crowd of reflections the word Eve is calculated to bring up! Eve was the name or title conferred upon our first mother, because she was actually to be the mother of all human beings who should live upon this earth. I am looking upon a congregation designed to be just such beings."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Millennial Star, v. 31, p. 267;
"How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revleaed to me – namely that Adam is our father and God – I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it. Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth. I have been found fault with by the ministers of religion because I have said that they were ignorant. But I could not find any man on the earth who cold tell me this, although it is one of the simplest things in the world, until I met and talked with Joseph Smith."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Deseret News, v. 22, no. 308, June 8, 1873;
"You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe, though it is supposed that it is so written in the Bible; but it is not to my understanding. You can write that information to the States, if you please – that I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bible as the Christian world do. I never did, and I never want to. What is the reason I do not? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 6;
"Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation."
Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 51


"Our Father begot all the spirits that were before any tabernacle was made. When our Father came into the Garden He came with his Celestial body and brought one of his wives with him and ate of the fruit of the Garden until He could beget a Tabernacle. And Adam is Michael God and all the God that we have anything to do with. They ate of this fruit and formed the first Tabernacle that was formed. And when the Virgin Mary was begotten with Child it was by the Father and in no other way only as we were begotten. I will tell you the truth as it is in God. The world don't know that Jesus Christ our Elder Brother was begotten by our Father in Heaven. Handle it was you please, it will either seal the damnation or salvation of man. He was begotten by the Father and not by the Holy Ghost."
Prophet Brigham Young, as quoted in the Wilford Woodruff's Journal, April 9, 1852;




Apostle Heber C. Kimball (1801 - 1874):
"This brings to my mind the vision that Joseph Smith had, when he saw Adam open the gate of the Celestial City and admit the people one by one. He then saw Father Adam conduct them to the throne one by one, when they were crowned Kings and Priests of God. I merely bring this up to impress upon your mind the principles of order, but it will nevertheless apply to every member of the Church."
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 9, p. 40
"I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people, and He is the God that pertains to this earth – the first man. That first man sent his own Son to redeem the world, to redeem his brethren; his life was taken, his blood shed, that our sins might be remitted."
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 4, p. 1
"Some have said that I was very presumptuous to say that Brother Brigham was my God and Savior. Brother Joseph was his God. The one that gave Joseph the keys of the Kingdom was his God, which was

Peter. Jesus Christ was his God and the God and Father of Jesus Christ was Adam."
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, as quoted by Wilford Woodruff, in the Journal of Wilford Woodruff, April 10, 1852
Apostle Orson Pratt (1801-1881):
"I have heard brother Brigham say that Adam is the Father of our spirits, and he came here with his resurrected body, to fall for his own children; and I said to him, it leads to an endless number of falls, which leads to sorrow and death: that is revolting to my feelings, even if it were not sustained by revelation."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, "Minutes of the Meeting of the Council of the Twelve in Historian's Upper Room," April 5, 1860, 10 a.m.
Prophet Wilford Woodruff (1807-1898):
"I presented before the meeting the case of O[rson]. Pratt who did not believe in some of the teachings of President Young [Adam-God]and thought President Young reproved him unjustly."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, March 24, 1858
"I met with the Presidency and Twelve in the prayer-circle after prayer....
"Brother G.A. Smith spoke in plainness his feelings concerning some problems of Elder O Pratt's wherein he differed from President Young concerning the creation of Adam out of the dust of the earth and the final consummation of knowledge and many other things."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, April 20, 1856
"President Young followed & made many good remarks . . . He said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ--Our God was no more or less than Adam . . . Michael the Archangel."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, February 19, 1854
"At meeting of school of the prophets, President Young said Adam was Michael the Archangel and he was the father of Jesus Christ and was our God, and Joseph taught this principle."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, December 16, 1867
"Then the subject was brought up concerning Adam being made of the dust of the earth, and Elder Orson Pratt pursued a course of stubbornness and unbelief in what President young said that will destroy him if he does not repent and turn from his evil ways."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, March 11, 1856
"I wish to refer to the first doctrine preached that Adam was our Father and God. In the revelation called the Olive Leaf it says that the Devil gathered together the hosts of Hell, and Michael the Archangel gathered together the hosts of Heaven and he overcame the Devil and his angels, and this is the battle of the great God. Who is this Michael the Archangel? It is Adam who was Michael in the creation of the world...."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, January 24, 1868
"Who begat the Son of God? Infidels say that Jesus was a *******, but let me tell you the truth concerning that matter. Our Father begat all the spirits that were, before any tabernacles were made. When our Father came into the garden, He came with His celestial body and brought one of His wives with Him and ate of the fruit of the garden until He could beget a tabernacle, and Adam is Michael or God and all the God that we have anything to do with. They eat of this fruit and formed the first tabernacle that was formed. And when the Virgin Mary was begotten with child, it was by the Father and in no other way, in no other way, only as we were begotten. I will tell you the truth as it is in God. The world don't know that Jesus Christ our elder brother was begotten by our Father in Heaven. Handle it as you please, it will either seal the damnation or salvation of man. He was begotten by the Father and not by the Holy Ghost."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff's Journal, April 9, 1852
"He [Brigham Young] said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ – Our God was no more or less than ADAM, Michael the Archangel."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Feb. 19, 1854
"Brother Cannon said there was a learned Doctor that wanted to be baptized.... He [the doctor] is satisfied that the doctrine of the plurality of God and that Adam is our Father is a true doctrine revealed from God to Joseph and Brigham. For this same doctrine is taught in some of the old Jewish records which have never been in print and I know Joseph Smtih nor Brigham Young have had access to, and the Lord has revealed this doctrine unto them or they could not have taught it. President Young said if all that God had revealed was in fine print it would more than fill this room but very little is written or printed which the Lord has revealed."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Sept. 4, 1860
"At meeting of School of Prophets: President Young said Adam was Michael the Archangel, and he was the Father of Jesus Christ and was our God and that Joseph taught this principle."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Dec. 16, 1867
"... I feel thankful for the privilege of speaking a few words to this school. I wish to refer to the first doctrine preached that Adam was our Father and God in the revelation called the olive leaf it says that 'the devil gathered together the hosts of hell and Michael the ark angel gathered together the hosts of heaven and he overcame the devil and his angel and this is the battle of the great God' who is this Michael the ark angel it is Adam who was Michael in the creation of the world..."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, "Minutes of the School of Prophets," Jan. 24, 1868
"I have a request to make of my family & that is that they, especially old people omit calling me their Father. Call me Brother Brigham--I shall feel better when you do for I do not consider that I am worthy of that appellation-- Father in the Priesthood implies the great head, the term would be proper to Father Adam. Jesus had reference to the same thing when he told his disciples not to call any man Father on earth for their Father was in heaven."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, February 16, 1847
Apostle Abraham H. Cannon (1859-1896):
"He [George Q. Cannon] believes that Jesus Christ is Jehovah, and that Adam is His father and our God: that under certain unknown conditions the benefits of the Savior's atonement extend to our entire solar system.... He asked me what I understood concerning Mary conceiving the Savior; and as I found no answer, he asked what was to prevent Father Adam from visiting and overshadowing the mother of Jesus. Then I said: 'he must have been a resurrected Being.' 'Yes,' he said, 'and though Christ is said to have been the first fruits of them that slept, yet the Savior said he did nothing but what He had seen His Father do, for He had power to lay down his life and take it up again. Adam, though made of dust, was made, as President Young said, of the dust of another planet than this.' I was very much instructed by the conversation and this days services."
- Apostle Abraham H. Cannon relating Apostle George Q. Cannon's sentiments, in Journal of Abraham H. Cannon, June 23, 1889, BYU Library Special Collections
"At two-o'clock I was at my Quorum meeting where were present all the Presidency and myself, as also Bro. Lyman; Geo. Gibbs, clerk. Bro. Jos. F. Smith was mouth in prayer. Thereafter some conversations followed as to whether Adam is our God or not. There are some in the Church who do not accept of the statement of Pres. Young that such is the case, but to me it seems reasonable to think that Adam has at least much to do with our present condition, and will control greatly our future destiny."
- Apostle Abraham H. Cannon, Journal of Abraham H. Cannon, May 26, 1892, BYU Library Special Collections
Eliza R. Snow (1804 - 1887), plural wife of Joseph Smith, Jr. and later to Brigham Young:
"Brightest among these spirits, and nearest in the circle to our Father and Mother in heaven (the Father being Adam), were Seth, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus Christ-
"These are the sons and daughters of Adam-the Ancient of Days-the Father and God of the whole human family. These are the sons and daughters of Michael, who is Adam, the father of the spirits of all our race. These are the sons and daughters of Eve, the Mother of a world."
- Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 19
"When Brigham Young proclaimed to the nations that Adam was our Father and God, and Eve, his partner, the Mother of a world-both in a mortal and celestial sense-he made the most important revelation ever oracled to the race since the days of Adam himself.
This grand patriarchal revelation is the very key-stone of the 'New Creation' of the heavens and the earth. It gives new meaning to the whole system of theology-"
- Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 196
"Adam is our Father and God. He is the God of the earth."
"Adam is the great Archangel of this creation. He is Michael. He is the Ancient of Days. He is the father of our elder brother, Jesus Christ--the father of him who shall also come as Messiah to reign. He is the father of the spirits as well as the tabernacles of the sons and daughters of man-Adam!"
"Michael is one of the grand mystical names in the works of creations; redemptions and resurrections."
"Michael was a celestial, resurrected being, of another world."
"'In the beginning,' the Gods created the heavens and the earths. In their councils they said, 'Let us make man in our own image.' So, in the likeness of the Fathers, and the Mothers--the Gods--created they man-male and female. When this earth was prepared for mankind, Michael, as Adam, came down. He brought with him one of his wives, and he called her name Eve."
"Adam and Eve are the names of the fathers and mothers of worlds."
- Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 179
"The grand patriarchal economy, with Adam, as a resurrected being, who brought his wife Eve from another world has

been very finely elaborated by Brigham from the patriarchal genesis which Joseph conceived."
- Eliza R. Snow, plural wife of Joseph Smith, Women of Mormondom, p. 180
Other Primary Source Quotations:
"Brother Orson Pratt preached on the subject of the resurrection of the dead, that they are to come out of their graves, but said that he did not know how the power of God would operate to raise them up from their graves. Also he did not believe that Father Adam had flesh and bones, when he came to the garden of Eden, but he and his wife Eve were spirits, and that God formed their bodies out of the dust of the ground, and the [sic] became a living souls. He also said that he believed that Jesus Christ and Adam are brothers in the Spirit, and that Adam is not the God that he is praying unto."
- Elder Thomas Evans Jeremy, Sr., Thomas Evans Jeremy Sr. Journal, Church Historical Department, Sept. 30, 1852
"I believe in the principle of obedience; and if I am told that Adam is our Father and our God, I just believe it."
- Elder James A. Little, Millennial Star, v. 16, p. 530
"Upon seeing Brigham Young for the first time and while yet some distance away the Prophet Joseph stopped his chopping on a beech log, straightened up, studied Brigham for a moment, then remarked: 'There comes the greatest man who ever lived to teach the identity of God to the world, and he will yet lead this people.'"
- Elder Charles L. Walker, The Diary of Charles L. Walker, Sept. 1832, p. 134
Note: The above quote appears to be a misquote and the original reference has disappeared. This is likely the correct version and doesn't say anything about the nature of God.
Br Levi W Hancock bore his testimony to the living Oracles of God. Said in the early rise of the church he lived two years with the Prophet Joseph, and one day he was chopping a Beech log with Joseph and saw Br Brigham for the first time. Joseph remarked to him before Brigham came within hearing "There is the greatest man that ever lived to teach redem[p]tion to the world and will yet lead this People.
(2 Diary of Charles Lowell Walker 422 (13 May 1876))
"Another meeting this evening. President B. Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurrected body, etc. More hereafter."
- Elder Hosea Stout, Hosea Stout Journal, v. 2, p. 435, Friday, April 9, 1852
"Friday 9th April 1852. Stormy morning. Attended conference. House much crowded, did not stay in the house long. Afternoon was not in because of the crowd. Another meeting this evening. President Brigham Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurrected body and etc. more hereafter."
- Elder Hosea Stout, Hosea Stout Journal, v. 2, p. 436, April 9, 1852
"I think these two quotations from such a reliable authority fully solve the question as to the relationship existing between Father Adam and the Savior of the world, and prove beyond question the power that Adam possessed in regard to taking his body again after laying it down--which power he never could have attained unless he had received first a resurrection from the grave to a condition of immortality. We further say that this power was not forfeited when as a celestial being he voluntarily partook of the forbidden fruit, and thereby rendered his body mortal in order that he might become the father of mortal tabernacles, as he was already the father of immortal spirits--thus giving opportunity to the offspring of his own begetting to pass through the ordeals necessary to prepare them for a resurrection from the dead, a celestial glory.
"All that Father Adam did upon this earth, from the time that he took up his abode in the Garden of Eden, was done for his posterity's sake and the success of his former mission as the savior of a world, and afterwards, or now, as the father of a world only added to the glory which he already possessed. If, as the savior of a world, he had the power to lay down his life and take it up again, therefore, as the father of a world which is altogether an advanced condition, we necessarily conclude that the grave was powerless to hold him after that mission was completed..."
- Elder Joseph E. Taylor, Collected Discourses, v. 1, June 2, 1888
"Friday 9th April 1852. Stormy morning. Attended conference. House much crowded, did not stay in the house long. Afternoon was not in because of the crowd. Another meeting this evening. President Brigham Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurrected body and etc. more hereafter."
- Elder Hosea Stout, Hosea Stout Journal, v. 2, p. 436, April 9, 1852
"Relative to the principles recently revealed, we have not the least difficulty. If Adam's being our Father cannot be proved by the Bible, it is all right."
- Elder Joseph Hall, Millennial Star, June 1854, v. 16, p. 483

"Attended conference, a very interesting conference, for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus, that Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized and that Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet, or that receives tabernacles on this planet, consequently we are brother and sisters, and that Adam was God, our Eternal Father. This as Brother Heber remarked, was letting the cat out of the bag, and it came to pass, I believed every word, for I remembered saying to the Brethren at a meeting of High Priests in Nauvoo, while I was speaking to them under the influence of the Spirit, I remarked thus, that our Father Adam had many wives, and that Eve was only one of them, and that she was our mother, and that she was the mother of the inhabitants of this earth, and I believe that also, but behold ye there were some that did not believe these sayings of the Prophet Brigham, even our Beloved Brother Orson Pratt told me he did not believe it. He said he could prove by the scriptures it was not correct. I felt very sorry to hear Professor Orson Pratt say that. I feared least he should apostatize, but I prayed for him that he might endure unto the end, for I knew verily it was possible that great men might fall. I remembered Apostle John E. Page. I saw him take from his pocket a plug of tobacco and bite a mouthful and put it back. It surprised me. I said old chap you will apostatize, but still I really hoped he would not, but he is gone, and I am very sorry for the poor man."
- Elder Joseph Lee Robinson, Journal of Joseph Lee Robinson, October 6, 1854

"The doctrine preached by Pres. Young for a few years back, wherein he says that Adam is our God – the God we worship – that most of the people believe this – some believe it because the President says so – others because they can find testimony in the Book of Mormon and the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. Amasa Lyman stumbled on this, he did not believe it – he did not believe in the atonement of Jesus – Orson Pratt has also told the President that he does not believe it. This is not the way to act. We should not suffer ourselves to entertain one doubt. We are not accountable on points of doctrine if the President makes a statement. It is not our prerogative to dispute it. He is only accountable in points of doctrine. I have heard President Young avow the truth of Adam being our Father and God but have never heard him argue the question at all."
- Elder Abraham B. Smoot, "Minutes of the School of the Prophets," pp. 37-42, June 8, 1868
"I thought I would speak briefly in relation to Adam being our God. Since the year 1852 when the President first spoke on this subject. I have frequently endeavored to reconcile what I have read with regard to this matter. I believe what the President says on the subject although it comes in contract with all our tradition. I have not any doubt in my mind but that Adam is our God. Who his God and Father may be, I have no knowledge. President Kimball spoke on this question recently and very plainly illustrated the character and relationship of our Father and God."
- Elder A.F. McDonald, "Minutes of the School of the Prophets," pp. 37-42, June 8, 1868
"I am not disposed to question the discrepancies on the question of doctrine; if we live faithful all will become clear to us. We cannot become united only as we get united in understanding. When I first heard the doctrine of Adam being our Father and God, I was favorably impressed – enjoyed, and hailed it as a new revelation. It appeared reasonable to me, as the Father of our spirits that he should introduce us here. And what we do not see is only evidence that we have not the light necessary."
- Elder George G. Bywater, "Minutes of the School of Prophets," pp. 37-42, June 8, 1868
"At Manti, Wednesday 25. I attended meeting, Orson Hyde preached to us, and he told us that what we heard before that Adam is our God, we had a splendid good meeting.
"At Manti, Jan. 25th Orson Hyde preached to us here in Manti, that, Adam is our God for this planet."
- Elder Jan Christian Anderson Weibye, Jan Christian Anderson Weibye Daybooks, Daybook 1st, p. 131, Jan. 25, 1871
"Brother Allred preaches at Manti on Adam as God, with the following remarks in part:
"Adam was buried by God and was only dead like a twinkling of a eye, and his God exalted him immediately. Mary was sealed to Adam; and unless we have two wives, we can never be Gods.
"Adam will worship his god and we will worship Adam, and our children will worship us."
- Elder Jan Christian Anderson Weibye, Jan Christian Anderson Weibye Daybooks, Daybook 5th, pp. 20-22
"President Joseph Fielding Smith said: The Lord did not give us the complete story of the creation of Adam and Eve because He knew the world would not accept it."
- Elder John A. Tvedtnes, Journal of John A. Tvedtnes, Friday, June 30, 1961
"Our Father

Adam---The Extract from the Journal of Discourses (vol. 1:50) may startle some of our readers, but we would wish them to recollect that in this last dispensation God will send forth, by his servants, things new as well as old, until man is perfected in the truth."
- Mission President Samuel W. Richards, Millennial Star, v. 15, p. 780
"Conference commenced on the 6 and continued until the 11, it was heled in the new tabernacle, adjourned until the 6 of next October We had the best Conference that I ever attended during the time of the Conference President Brigham Young said that our spirits ware begotten before that Adam came to the Earth and that Adam helped to make the Earth, that he had a Celestial boddy when he came to the Earth and that he brought his wife or one of his wives with him, and that Eave was allso a Celestial being, that they eat of the fruit of the ground until they begat children from the Earth, he said that Adam was the onley God that we would have, and that Christ was not begotten of the Holy Gost, but of the Father Adam, that Christ, was our elder brother. The argument that he used to shoe that Christ was not begotten by the holy gost, was a caution to the Elders that when they should go to preach the Gospel, to be careful how they laid their hands on the sisters, for the reseption of the holy Gost, lest the holy Gost should get them with Child and that it would be laid to them."
- Elder Samuel H. Rodgers, Journal of Samuel H. Rodgers, v. 1, p. 179; BYU Special Collections
"At Special Priesthood meeting at which the official statement of the First Presidency regarding the teachings of Adam-God is presented, Prest. Jos. F. Smith then said that he was in full accord with what Prest. Penrose had said and that Prest. Brigham Young when he delivered that sermon only expressed his own views and that they were not corroborated by the word of the Lord in the stand works of the Church. The Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants were voted upon by the Church convened in a Conference and organized in various Quorums of the Priesthood who voted by Quorums after which the body of the Church were asked to vote to sustain the above books as the Standards of the Church....
"Now all doctrine if it can't be established by these standards is not to be taught or promulgated by members. That those Patriarchs who persisted in teaching these things and did not stop when told to do so should be handled by their Bishops and their names sent up to the High Councils for further action and be cut off."
- Elder Thomas A. Clawson, Journal of Thomas A. Clawson, 1912-1917 Book, pp. 69-70, April 8, 1912
"Brother Horne and I chatted again tonight about the Gospel and the Adam-God Doctrine, as we have done many times before. Brother Horne, who grew up in Salt Lake City and was the son of Richard Horne and grandson of Joseph Horne said, in reference to the Adam-God Doctrine, that when he first went through the Temple for his Endowment in 1902 before going on his mission he was surprised to hear the teachings during the Temple ceremony in the sermon before the veil, that 'Adam was our God' and that 'he came here with Eve, one of his wives.' Also it was taught that 'Eve bore our spirits' (i.e. the spirits of all men). He asked his father about it but he declined to give any opinion about it. After Brother Horne returned from his mission a few years later, in 1905, he noted these teachings had been removed from the Temple ceremony. He feels that they were left over from Brigham Young's influence, but that the himself couldn't believe such doctrine. He thinks perhaps Brigham just got off in his speculation."
- Patriarch J. Arthur Horne, The Elder's Journal, v. 1, by C. Jess Groesbeck, p. 29
"Pres. Jensen referred to the condition of some of the High Priests in the Malad Ward who were contending one with another concerning some point of doctrine, which they did not understand. The point in dispute being, was Adam was God, some taking the affirmation and some the negative of the question. That was not right. We ought to allow these matters to rest until our minds were better informed regarding them."
- "Minutes of the High Priests Quorum," Feb. 24, 1880, p. 86 (Box Elder Stake)
"ADAM, THE FATHER AND GOD OF THE HUMAN FAMILY
"The above sentiment appeared in Star No. 48, a little to the surprise of some of its readers; and while the sentiment may have appeared blasphemous to the ignorant, it has no doubt given rise to some serious reflections with the more candid and comprehensive mind. A few reasonable and scriptural ideas upon this subject may be profitable at the present time.
"Then Adam is really God! And why not? If there are Lords many and Gods many, as the scriptures inform us, why not our Father Adam be one of them?"
- Mission President Samuel W. Richards, Millennial Star, v. 15, p. 801
"It has been said that Adam is the God and Father of the human family, and persons are perhaps in fear and great trouble of mind, lest they have to acknowledge him as such in some future day. For our part we would much rather acknowledge Adam to be our Father than hunt for another and take up with the devil. Whoever is acknowledged Father must have the rights and honor that belong to him. No man may ever expect to attain to more than he is willing others should enjoy. If these things have power to disturb the pure mind, we apprehend that even greater troubles than these may arise before mankind learn all the particulars of Christ's incarnation---Whatever may prove to be the facts in the case it certainly would exhibit a great degree of weakness on the part of anyone to indulge in fears and anxieties about that which he has no power to control. Facts still remain facts whether kept or revealed. If there is a way pointed out by which all beings who come into this world can lay the foundation for rule, and a never-ending increase of kingdoms and dominions, by which they can become Gods, we are all willing the Lord Jesus Christ should enjoy them all as any other being, ascribing honor and power to him as their God. The Apostle informs us that those who are redeemed shall be like Jesus; not to say, however, that they shall be wifeless and childless, and without eternal affections. It should be borne in mind that these wonderful mysteries, as they are supposed to be, are only mysteries because of the ignorance of men; and when men and women are troubled in spirit over these things which come to light through the proper channel of intelligence, they only betray their weakness, ignorance, and folly."
- Mission President Samuel W. Richards, Millennial Star, v. 15, p. 842

"It has been said that Adam is the God and Father of the human family, and persons are perhaps in fear and great trouble of mind, lest they have to acknowledge him as such in some future day. For our part we would much rather acknowledge Adam to be our Father, than hunt for another, and take up with the devil."
- Millennial Star, v. 15, p. 825
"… every Knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that he [Adam] is the God of the whole earth. Then will the words of the Prophet Brigham, when speaking of Adam, be fully realized..."
- Millennial Star, v. 17, p. 195
"... some of the officers have not met in council for three years. They are lacking faith on one principle – the looast 'cat that was let out of the bag.' Polygamy had been gotten over pretty well, that cloud had vanished away, but they are troubled about Adam being our Father and God."
- Millennial Star, v. 16, p. 482
"Concerning the item of doctrine alluded to by Elder Caffall and others, viz., that Adam is our Father and God, I have to say do not trouble yourselves...If, as Elder Caffall remarked, there are those who are waiting at the door of the Church for this objection to be removed, tell such, the Prophet and Apostle Brigham has declared it, and that it is the word of the Lord."
- President F.D. Richards, Millennial Star, v. 16, August 26, 1854, p. 334
"The introduction of the Law of Celestial Marriage, which in its operations, will revolutionize all our political, religious, and domestic arrangements; and the announcement of the position of Adam, our great progenitor, occupies among the Gods; have marked your Presidency as a special epoch in the history of the British Mission."
- Millennial Star, June 1854, v. 16, p. 629
"The Seer, the 'Great First Cause," and certain articles by Orson Pratt on the Holy Spirit were disowned by the Church. The people of the Church were asked to destroy his questionable writings."
- Millennial Star, v. 27, p. 698, Nov. 1865
A Voice of Dissent:
"President John Taylor
Sir,
Duty imperatively demands that as I am about to withdraw from the Church over which you preside I make known to you and to all whom it may concern the reasons which have compelled me to take this step.
When I joined the Mormon Church a little over 5 years ago I believed implicitly as I do now that the Bible was the word of God and the Rule of Faith and while the 'Book of Mormon' and 'Doctrine and Covenants' were referred to as additional revelation they no where contradicted the Bible but rather established it.
Before joining the Church I became acquainted with Elders Wm. Budge, John Nicholson, Francis Cope, james L. Bunting, and others. Elder Nicholson preached from the Bible only and almost entirely dwelt on what is known as the first principles claiming that these principles were what had been introduced by our Savior and preached by his immediate apostles but that men had wandered away from them and had fallen into darkness and superstition. I had heard a great many things about the Mormons that were nothing to their credit consequently the eminent social qualities and gentlemanly conduct of Elder Cope won my admiration and esteem. I was greatly pleased to find him a monogamist for while I

could not deny that many good men in the past had had more wives than one, I never for one moment assented to the idea that there was any virtue in such a proceeding or that it merited or would receive any reward.
I joined your Church on the 20th of May 1879 and during the first 2 years of my membership I faithfully adhered to it and would have given my life to defend it, during all this time I never heard of Adam being God, never heard of Blood Atonement, never heard of polygamy being required of all men before they could attain to highest glory. Never dreamed that Brigham Young or any one else coolly threw the Bible overboard and preached whatever they pleased which I was bound to accept as revelations of God. I do not and cannot cease these men of having told me anything absolutely false, but they certainly withheld the horrible. I was in the Church some five years before I heard or knew anything about those things – doctrines against which my soul revolts...
I imagined that I had come to the kingdom of God to help build it up! What did I find? I found that God, the God of the Bible is not even worshipped by the Church over which you preside, the God you worship is Adam. Brigham Young teaches I quote his words, 'When our Father Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body and brought Eve one of his wives with him. He is our Father and our God and the ONLY God with whom we have to do.' At first I could not bring myself to believe that this doctrine was accepted by the Church, but on careful inquiry found to my horror and astonishment that it was really so. It is true a great many know nothing about it and are simply in ignorance. Those who do not know accept it as far more to be relied on than any portion of the Bible, for say they the Bible has been translated over and over again and may be wrong but this is the direct teaching of a Great Prophet.
I reject this as abominable and horrible idolatry and give it as one reason why I cannot remain in your Church."
- "Letter to Pres. John Talyor from Scott Anderson," Sept. 22, 1884
 

[Benjamin Seeker]

26 minutes ago, co-eternal said:

Here are just a few that disagree:

Not subject to death when he [Adam] was placed upon the earth, there had to come a change in his body through the partaking of this … fruit that brought blood into his body; and blood became the life of the body instead of spirit. And blood has in it the seeds of death, some mortal element. Mortality was created through the eating of the forbidden fruit. (Fall-Atonement-Resurrection-Sacrament, 125)

Why did Adam come here? Not subject to death when he was placed upon the earth, there had to come a change in his body through the partaking of this element--whatever you want to call it, fruit--that brought blood into his body; and blood became the life of the body instead of spirit. And blood has in it the seeds of death, some mortal element. Mortality was created through the eating of forbidden fruit, if you want to call it forbidden, but I think the Lord has made it clear that it was not forbidden. He merely said to Adam, if you want to stay here [in the garden] this is the situation. If so, don't eat it. ("The Sacrament and the Atonement," address given at the LDS institute of religion, Salt Lake City, 14 Jan. 1961, 5)
Boyd K. Packer (Quorum of the Twelve)
The word fall describes well what transpired when Adam and Eve were driven from the garden. A transformation took place which made them “a little lower than the angels.” (In the Hebrew text, the word “angel” is given as “gods,” see Ps 8:5, Heb 2:7-9.) The bodies formed for mankind became temporal or physical bodies. The scriptures say “the life of all flesh is in the blood thereof” (Lev 17:11-13; Deut 12:23; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 199-200, 367 Kimball 5-6).
After the transformation caused by the Fall, bodies of flesh and bone and blood (unlike our spirit bodies), would not endure forever. Somehow the ingredient blood carried with it a limit to life. It was as though a clock were set and a time given. Thereafter, all living things moved inexorably toward mortal or temporal death. Temporal, I repeat, means temporary. ("The Law and the Light," Book of Mormon Symposium, BYU, 30 October 1988).
Harold B. Lee (Quorum of the Twelve)
Adam and Eve had now exercised their agency and of their own volition had partaken of the fruit of which they were commanded not to eat,and thus they had become subject to the law of Satan.... Instead of spirit fluid, which had made them not subject to death, there had now come another element. The life of the body is the blood, and in the bloodstream there were to be found the seeds that were to bring about their mortal death. ("The Fall of Man," Lecture Given to Seminary and Institute Teachers, June 23, 1954, Brigham Young University)
 



"I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom . . . I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95).

“I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” says Joseph Smith (History of the Church, 6:477; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith on June 16, 1844, in Nauvoo, Illinois, Grove East of Temple; reported by Thomas Bullock)


“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

...Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, aBrigham Young in the Desert News, June 18, 1873 How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine, which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and Godnd she was called Eve, because she was the first women upon this earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys to everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth..."well," says one " Why was Adam called Adam"? He was the first man on earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren brought it into existence. Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery?

Brigham Young 1852-08-15 I will now read a little in this book, called the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, pertaining to the subject we had before us last Sabbath. I will read a part of a short revelation, in order to exhibit some items of doctrine that are not generally understood, although it is before the people. All people who are disposed, have the privilege of reading this book for themselves; for it has been published to the world for some years. The Saints read it and have the privilege of understanding it, if they choose. Still, as I observed, we are in the school and keep learning, and we do not expect to cease learning while we live on earth; and when we pass through the veil, we expect still to continue to learn and increase our fund of information. That may appear a strange idea to some; but it is for the plain and simple reason that we are not capacitated to receive all knowledge at once. We must therefore receive a little here and a little there. [6:286:4]

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret…We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple.

It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible… The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the son power - to do what? Why what the Father did. The answer is obvious - in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And, I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me... What did Jesus Do? ‘Why I do the things I saw my father do when worlds came rolling into existence, my Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my father so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, an it will exalt Him in glory, He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself.’ So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn the First Principles of the Gospel, about which so much has been said. When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top…It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.” (Excerpts from the King Follet Discourse, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345-348)

“My next sermon will be to both Saint and sinner. One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God, upon which subject the Elders of Israel have conflicting views. Our God and Father in heaven, is a being of tabernacle, or, in other words, He has a body, with parts the same as you and I have; and is capable of showing forth His works to organized beings, as, for instance, in the world in which we live, it is the result of the knowledge and infinite wisdom that dwell in His organized body. His son Jesus Christ has become a personage of tabernacle, and has a body like his father. The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Lord, and issues forth from Himself, and may properly be called God's minister to execute His will in immensity; being called to govern by His influence and power; but He is not a person of tabernacle as we are, and as our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ are. The question has been, and is often, asked, who it was that begat the Son of the Virgin Mary. The infidel world have concluded that if what the Apostles wrote about his father and mother be true, and the present marriage discipline acknowledged by Christendom be correct, then Christians must believe that God is the father of an illegitimate son, in the person of Jesus Christ! The infidel fraternity teach that to their disciples. I will tell you how it is. Our Father in Heaven begat all the spirits that ever were, or ever will be, upon this earth; and they were born spirits in the eternal world. Then the Lord by His power and wisdom organized the mortal tabernacle of man. We were made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal. Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken—HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, and thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal. When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so on in succession. I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone. I have heard men preach upon the divinity of Christ, and exhaust all the wisdom they possessed. All Scripturalists, and approved theologians who were considered exemplary for piety and education, have undertaken to expound on this subject, in every age of the Christian era; and after they have done all, they are obliged to conclude by exclaiming ‘great is the mystery of godliness,’ and tell nothing. It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, ‘it is an immaterial substance!’ What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost… Treasure up these things in your hearts. In the Bible, you have read the things I have told you to-night; but you have not known what you did read. I have told you no more than you are conversant with; but what do the people in Christendom, with the Bible in their hands, know about this subject? Comparatively nothing.” (JD 1: 50-52. Capitols in Original.)

A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow, the life giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in s remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegraye and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal. The ensign p. 56; First Presidency Message; President Spencer w. Kimbal; Absolute Truth; Sept 1978

Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)

“One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God… [and] Our God and Father in heaven… When our father Adam came into the

garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! About whom holy men have written and spoken – He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do… I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone… Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the Garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told… Treasure up these things in your hearts.” (JD 1: 50-51, CAPITALS in the original.)


“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)

How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine, which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God...Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first women upon this earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys to everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth..."well," says one " Why was Adam called Adam"? He was the first man on earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren brought it into existence. Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery? (Brigham Young in the Desert News, June 18, 1873)

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

"Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon earth, When you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobies from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle words devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell.... Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh, and I would not say that they are not also the parents of our spirits." ( Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, pp. 285, 290)
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, pp. 285, 290;
"Some may think what I have said concerning Adam strange, but the period will come when the people will be willing to adopt Joseph Smith as their Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and God! but not the Father of their spirits, for that was our Father Adam."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal History, p. 131, December 11, 1869;
"Before me I see a house full of Eves. What a crowd of reflections the word Eve is calculated to bring up! Eve was the name or title conferred upon our first mother, because she was actually to be the mother of all human beings who should live upon this earth. I am looking upon a congregation designed to be just such beings."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Millennial Star, v. 31, p. 267;
"How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revleaed to me – namely that Adam is our father and God – I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it. Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth. I have been found fault with by the ministers of religion because I have said that they were ignorant. But I could not find any man on the earth who cold tell me this, although it is one of the simplest things in the world, until I met and talked with Joseph Smith."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Deseret News, v. 22, no. 308, June 8, 1873;
"You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe, though it is supposed that it is so written in the Bible; but it is not to my understanding. You can write that information to the States, if you please – that I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bible as the Christian world do. I never did, and I never want to. What is the reason I do not? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 6;
"Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation."
Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 51


"Our Father begot all the spirits that were before any tabernacle was made. When our Father came into the Garden He came with his Celestial body and brought one of his wives with him and ate of the fruit of the Garden until He could beget a Tabernacle. And Adam is Michael God and all the God that we have anything to do with. They ate of this fruit and formed the first Tabernacle that was formed. And when the Virgin Mary was begotten with Child it was by the Father and in no other way only as we were begotten. I will tell you the truth as it is in God. The world don't know that Jesus Christ our Elder Brother was begotten by our Father in Heaven. Handle it was you please, it will either seal the damnation or salvation of man. He was begotten by the Father and not by the Holy Ghost."
Prophet Brigham Young, as quoted in the Wilford Woodruff's Journal, April 9, 1852;




Apostle Heber C. Kimball (1801 - 1874):
"This brings to my mind the vision that Joseph Smith had, when he saw Adam open the gate of the Celestial City and admit the people one by one. He then saw Father Adam conduct them to the throne one by one, when they were crowned Kings and Priests of God. I merely bring this up to impress upon your mind the principles of order, but it will nevertheless apply to every member of the Church."
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 9, p. 40
"I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people, and He is the God that pertains to this earth – the first man. That first man sent his own Son to redeem the world, to redeem his brethren; his life was taken, his blood shed, that our sins might be remitted."
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 4, p. 1
"Some have said that I was very presumptuous to say that Brother Brigham was my God and Savior. Brother Joseph was his God. The one that gave Joseph the keys of the Kingdom was his God, which was

Peter. Jesus Christ was his God and the God and Father of Jesus Christ was Adam."
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, as quoted by Wilford Woodruff, in the Journal of Wilford Woodruff, April 10, 1852
Apostle Orson Pratt (1801-1881):
"I have heard brother Brigham say that Adam is the Father of our spirits, and he came here with his resurrected body, to fall for his own children; and I said to him, it leads to an endless number of falls, which leads to sorrow and death: that is revolting to my feelings, even if it were not sustained by revelation."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, "Minutes of the Meeting of the Council of the Twelve in Historian's Upper Room," April 5, 1860, 10 a.m.
Prophet Wilford Woodruff (1807-1898):
"I presented before the meeting the case of O[rson]. Pratt who did not believe in some of the teachings of President Young [Adam-God]and thought President Young reproved him unjustly."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, March 24, 1858
"I met with the Presidency and Twelve in the prayer-circle after prayer....
"Brother G.A. Smith spoke in plainness his feelings concerning some problems of Elder O Pratt's wherein he differed from President Young concerning the creation of Adam out of the dust of the earth and the final consummation of knowledge and many other things."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, April 20, 1856
"President Young followed & made many good remarks . . . He said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ--Our God was no more or less than Adam . . . Michael the Archangel."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, February 19, 1854
"At meeting of school of the prophets, President Young said Adam was Michael the Archangel and he was the father of Jesus Christ and was our God, and Joseph taught this principle."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, December 16, 1867
"Then the subject was brought up concerning Adam being made of the dust of the earth, and Elder Orson Pratt pursued a course of stubbornness and unbelief in what President young said that will destroy him if he does not repent and turn from his evil ways."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, March 11, 1856
"I wish to refer to the first doctrine preached that Adam was our Father and God. In the revelation called the Olive Leaf it says that the Devil gathered together the hosts of Hell, and Michael the Archangel gathered together the hosts of Heaven and he overcame the Devil and his angels, and this is the battle of the great God. Who is this Michael the Archangel? It is Adam who was Michael in the creation of the world...."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, January 24, 1868
"Who begat the Son of God? Infidels say that Jesus was a *******, but let me tell you the truth concerning that matter. Our Father begat all the spirits that were, before any tabernacles were made. When our Father came into the garden, He came with His celestial body and brought one of His wives with Him and ate of the fruit of the garden until He could beget a tabernacle, and Adam is Michael or God and all the God that we have anything to do with. They eat of this fruit and formed the first tabernacle that was formed. And when the Virgin Mary was begotten with child, it was by the Father and in no other way, in no other way, only as we were begotten. I will tell you the truth as it is in God. The world don't know that Jesus Christ our elder brother was begotten by our Father in Heaven. Handle it as you please, it will either seal the damnation or salvation of man. He was begotten by the Father and not by the Holy Ghost."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff's Journal, April 9, 1852
"He [Brigham Young] said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ – Our God was no more or less than ADAM, Michael the Archangel."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Feb. 19, 1854
"Brother Cannon said there was a learned Doctor that wanted to be baptized.... He [the doctor] is satisfied that the doctrine of the plurality of God and that Adam is our Father is a true doctrine revealed from God to Joseph and Brigham. For this same doctrine is taught in some of the old Jewish records which have never been in print and I know Joseph Smtih nor Brigham Young have had access to, and the Lord has revealed this doctrine unto them or they could not have taught it. President Young said if all that God had revealed was in fine print it would more than fill this room but very little is written or printed which the Lord has revealed."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Sept. 4, 1860
"At meeting of School of Prophets: President Young said Adam was Michael the Archangel, and he was the Father of Jesus Christ and was our God and that Joseph taught this principle."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, Dec. 16, 1867
"... I feel thankful for the privilege of speaking a few words to this school. I wish to refer to the first doctrine preached that Adam was our Father and God in the revelation called the olive leaf it says that 'the devil gathered together the hosts of hell and Michael the ark angel gathered together the hosts of heaven and he overcame the devil and his angel and this is the battle of the great God' who is this Michael the ark angel it is Adam who was Michael in the creation of the world..."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, "Minutes of the School of Prophets," Jan. 24, 1868
"I have a request to make of my family & that is that they, especially old people omit calling me their Father. Call me Brother Brigham--I shall feel better when you do for I do not consider that I am worthy of that appellation-- Father in the Priesthood implies the great head, the term would be proper to Father Adam. Jesus had reference to the same thing when he told his disciples not to call any man Father on earth for their Father was in heaven."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Wilford Woodruff, February 16, 1847
Apostle Abraham H. Cannon (1859-1896):
"He [George Q. Cannon] believes that Jesus Christ is Jehovah, and that Adam is His father and our God: that under certain unknown conditions the benefits of the Savior's atonement extend to our entire solar system.... He asked me what I understood concerning Mary conceiving the Savior; and as I found no answer, he asked what was to prevent Father Adam from visiting and overshadowing the mother of Jesus. Then I said: 'he must have been a resurrected Being.' 'Yes,' he said, 'and though Christ is said to have been the first fruits of them that slept, yet the Savior said he did nothing but what He had seen His Father do, for He had power to lay down his life and take it up again. Adam, though made of dust, was made, as President Young said, of the dust of another planet than this.' I was very much instructed by the conversation and this days services."
- Apostle Abraham H. Cannon relating Apostle George Q. Cannon's sentiments, in Journal of Abraham H. Cannon, June 23, 1889, BYU Library Special Collections
"At two-o'clock I was at my Quorum meeting where were present all the Presidency and myself, as also Bro. Lyman; Geo. Gibbs, clerk. Bro. Jos. F. Smith was mouth in prayer. Thereafter some conversations followed as to whether Adam is our God or not. There are some in the Church who do not accept of the statement of Pres. Young that such is the case, but to me it seems reasonable to think that Adam has at least much to do with our present condition, and will control greatly our future destiny."
- Apostle Abraham H. Cannon, Journal of Abraham H. Cannon, May 26, 1892, BYU Library Special Collections
Eliza R. Snow (1804 - 1887), plural wife of Joseph Smith, Jr. and later to Brigham Young:
"Brightest among these spirits, and nearest in the circle to our Father and Mother in heaven (the Father being Adam), were Seth, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus Christ-
"These are the sons and daughters of Adam-the Ancient of Days-the Father and God of the whole human family. These are the sons and daughters of Michael, who is Adam, the father of the spirits of all our race. These are the sons and daughters of Eve, the Mother of a world."
- Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 19
"When Brigham Young proclaimed to the nations that Adam was our Father and God, and Eve, his partner, the Mother of a world-both in a mortal and celestial sense-he made the most important revelation ever oracled to the race since the days of Adam himself.
This grand patriarchal revelation is the very key-stone of the 'New Creation' of the heavens and the earth. It gives new meaning to the whole system of theology-"
- Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 196
"Adam is our Father and God. He is the God of the earth."
"Adam is the great Archangel of this creation. He is Michael. He is the Ancient of Days. He is the father of our elder brother, Jesus Christ--the father of him who shall also come as Messiah to reign. He is the father of the spirits as well as the tabernacles of the sons and daughters of man-Adam!"
"Michael is one of the grand mystical names in the works of creations; redemptions and resurrections."
"Michael was a celestial, resurrected being, of another world."
"'In the beginning,' the Gods created the heavens and the earths. In their councils they said, 'Let us make man in our own image.' So, in the likeness of the Fathers, and the Mothers--the Gods--created they man-male and female. When this earth was prepared for mankind, Michael, as Adam, came down. He brought with him one of his wives, and he called her name Eve."
"Adam and Eve are the names of the fathers and mothers of worlds."
- Eliza R. Snow, Women of Mormondom, p. 179
"The grand patriarchal economy, with Adam, as a resurrected being, who brought his wife Eve from another world has

been very finely elaborated by Brigham from the patriarchal genesis which Joseph conceived."
- Eliza R. Snow, plural wife of Joseph Smith, Women of Mormondom, p. 180
Other Primary Source Quotations:
"Brother Orson Pratt preached on the subject of the resurrection of the dead, that they are to come out of their graves, but said that he did not know how the power of God would operate to raise them up from their graves. Also he did not believe that Father Adam had flesh and bones, when he came to the garden of Eden, but he and his wife Eve were spirits, and that God formed their bodies out of the dust of the ground, and the [sic] became a living souls. He also said that he believed that Jesus Christ and Adam are brothers in the Spirit, and that Adam is not the God that he is praying unto."
- Elder Thomas Evans Jeremy, Sr., Thomas Evans Jeremy Sr. Journal, Church Historical Department, Sept. 30, 1852
"I believe in the principle of obedience; and if I am told that Adam is our Father and our God, I just believe it."
- Elder James A. Little, Millennial Star, v. 16, p. 530
"Upon seeing Brigham Young for the first time and while yet some distance away the Prophet Joseph stopped his chopping on a beech log, straightened up, studied Brigham for a moment, then remarked: 'There comes the greatest man who ever lived to teach the identity of God to the world, and he will yet lead this people.'"
- Elder Charles L. Walker, The Diary of Charles L. Walker, Sept. 1832, p. 134
Note: The above quote appears to be a misquote and the original reference has disappeared. This is likely the correct version and doesn't say anything about the nature of God.
Br Levi W Hancock bore his testimony to the living Oracles of God. Said in the early rise of the church he lived two years with the Prophet Joseph, and one day he was chopping a Beech log with Joseph and saw Br Brigham for the first time. Joseph remarked to him before Brigham came within hearing "There is the greatest man that ever lived to teach redem[p]tion to the world and will yet lead this People.
(2 Diary of Charles Lowell Walker 422 (13 May 1876))
"Another meeting this evening. President B. Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurrected body, etc. More hereafter."
- Elder Hosea Stout, Hosea Stout Journal, v. 2, p. 435, Friday, April 9, 1852
"Friday 9th April 1852. Stormy morning. Attended conference. House much crowded, did not stay in the house long. Afternoon was not in because of the crowd. Another meeting this evening. President Brigham Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurrected body and etc. more hereafter."
- Elder Hosea Stout, Hosea Stout Journal, v. 2, p. 436, April 9, 1852
"I think these two quotations from such a reliable authority fully solve the question as to the relationship existing between Father Adam and the Savior of the world, and prove beyond question the power that Adam possessed in regard to taking his body again after laying it down--which power he never could have attained unless he had received first a resurrection from the grave to a condition of immortality. We further say that this power was not forfeited when as a celestial being he voluntarily partook of the forbidden fruit, and thereby rendered his body mortal in order that he might become the father of mortal tabernacles, as he was already the father of immortal spirits--thus giving opportunity to the offspring of his own begetting to pass through the ordeals necessary to prepare them for a resurrection from the dead, a celestial glory.
"All that Father Adam did upon this earth, from the time that he took up his abode in the Garden of Eden, was done for his posterity's sake and the success of his former mission as the savior of a world, and afterwards, or now, as the father of a world only added to the glory which he already possessed. If, as the savior of a world, he had the power to lay down his life and take it up again, therefore, as the father of a world which is altogether an advanced condition, we necessarily conclude that the grave was powerless to hold him after that mission was completed..."
- Elder Joseph E. Taylor, Collected Discourses, v. 1, June 2, 1888
"Friday 9th April 1852. Stormy morning. Attended conference. House much crowded, did not stay in the house long. Afternoon was not in because of the crowd. Another meeting this evening. President Brigham Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurrected body and etc. more hereafter."
- Elder Hosea Stout, Hosea Stout Journal, v. 2, p. 436, April 9, 1852
"Relative to the principles recently revealed, we have not the least difficulty. If Adam's being our Father cannot be proved by the Bible, it is all right."
- Elder Joseph Hall, Millennial Star, June 1854, v. 16, p. 483

"Attended conference, a very interesting conference, for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus, that Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized and that Adam and Eve were the natural father and mother of every spirit that comes to this planet, or that receives tabernacles on this planet, consequently we are brother and sisters, and that Adam was God, our Eternal Father. This as Brother Heber remarked, was letting the cat out of the bag, and it came to pass, I believed every word, for I remembered saying to the Brethren at a meeting of High Priests in Nauvoo, while I was speaking to them under the influence of the Spirit, I remarked thus, that our Father Adam had many wives, and that Eve was only one of them, and that she was our mother, and that she was the mother of the inhabitants of this earth, and I believe that also, but behold ye there were some that did not believe these sayings of the Prophet Brigham, even our Beloved Brother Orson Pratt told me he did not believe it. He said he could prove by the scriptures it was not correct. I felt very sorry to hear Professor Orson Pratt say that. I feared least he should apostatize, but I prayed for him that he might endure unto the end, for I knew verily it was possible that great men might fall. I remembered Apostle John E. Page. I saw him take from his pocket a plug of tobacco and bite a mouthful and put it back. It surprised me. I said old chap you will apostatize, but still I really hoped he would not, but he is gone, and I am very sorry for the poor man."
- Elder Joseph Lee Robinson, Journal of Joseph Lee Robinson, October 6, 1854

"The doctrine preached by Pres. Young for a few years back, wherein he says that Adam is our God – the God we worship – that most of the people believe this – some believe it because the President says so – others because they can find testimony in the Book of Mormon and the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. Amasa Lyman stumbled on this, he did not believe it – he did not believe in the atonement of Jesus – Orson Pratt has also told the President that he does not believe it. This is not the way to act. We should not suffer ourselves to entertain one doubt. We are not accountable on points of doctrine if the President makes a statement. It is not our prerogative to dispute it. He is only accountable in points of doctrine. I have heard President Young avow the truth of Adam being our Father and God but have never heard him argue the question at all."
- Elder Abraham B. Smoot, "Minutes of the School of the Prophets," pp. 37-42, June 8, 1868
"I thought I would speak briefly in relation to Adam being our God. Since the year 1852 when the President first spoke on this subject. I have frequently endeavored to reconcile what I have read with regard to this matter. I believe what the President says on the subject although it comes in contract with all our tradition. I have not any doubt in my mind but that Adam is our God. Who his God and Father may be, I have no knowledge. President Kimball spoke on this question recently and very plainly illustrated the character and relationship of our Father and God."
- Elder A.F. McDonald, "Minutes of the School of the Prophets," pp. 37-42, June 8, 1868
"I am not disposed to question the discrepancies on the question of doctrine; if we live faithful all will become clear to us. We cannot become united only as we get united in understanding. When I first heard the doctrine of Adam being our Father and God, I was favorably impressed – enjoyed, and hailed it as a new revelation. It appeared reasonable to me, as the Father of our spirits that he should introduce us here. And what we do not see is only evidence that we have not the light necessary."
- Elder George G. Bywater, "Minutes of the School of Prophets," pp. 37-42, June 8, 1868
"At Manti, Wednesday 25. I attended meeting, Orson Hyde preached to us, and he told us that what we heard before that Adam is our God, we had a splendid good meeting.
"At Manti, Jan. 25th Orson Hyde preached to us here in Manti, that, Adam is our God for this planet."
- Elder Jan Christian Anderson Weibye, Jan Christian Anderson Weibye Daybooks, Daybook 1st, p. 131, Jan. 25, 1871
"Brother Allred preaches at Manti on Adam as God, with the following remarks in part:
"Adam was buried by God and was only dead like a twinkling of a eye, and his God exalted him immediately. Mary was sealed to Adam; and unless we have two wives, we can never be Gods.
"Adam will worship his god and we will worship Adam, and our children will worship us."
- Elder Jan Christian Anderson Weibye, Jan Christian Anderson Weibye Daybooks, Daybook 5th, pp. 20-22
"President Joseph Fielding Smith said: The Lord did not give us the complete story of the creation of Adam and Eve because He knew the world would not accept it."
- Elder John A. Tvedtnes, Journal of John A. Tvedtnes, Friday, June 30, 1961
"Our Father

Adam---The Extract from the Journal of Discourses (vol. 1:50) may startle some of our readers, but we would wish them to recollect that in this last dispensation God will send forth, by his servants, things new as well as old, until man is perfected in the truth."
- Mission President Samuel W. Richards, Millennial Star, v. 15, p. 780
"Conference commenced on the 6 and continued until the 11, it was heled in the new tabernacle, adjourned until the 6 of next October We had the best Conference that I ever attended during the time of the Conference President Brigham Young said that our spirits ware begotten before that Adam came to the Earth and that Adam helped to make the Earth, that he had a Celestial boddy when he came to the Earth and that he brought his wife or one of his wives with him, and that Eave was allso a Celestial being, that they eat of the fruit of the ground until they begat children from the Earth, he said that Adam was the onley God that we would have, and that Christ was not begotten of the Holy Gost, but of the Father Adam, that Christ, was our elder brother. The argument that he used to shoe that Christ was not begotten by the holy gost, was a caution to the Elders that when they should go to preach the Gospel, to be careful how they laid their hands on the sisters, for the reseption of the holy Gost, lest the holy Gost should get them with Child and that it would be laid to them."
- Elder Samuel H. Rodgers, Journal of Samuel H. Rodgers, v. 1, p. 179; BYU Special Collections
"At Special Priesthood meeting at which the official statement of the First Presidency regarding the teachings of Adam-God is presented, Prest. Jos. F. Smith then said that he was in full accord with what Prest. Penrose had said and that Prest. Brigham Young when he delivered that sermon only expressed his own views and that they were not corroborated by the word of the Lord in the stand works of the Church. The Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants were voted upon by the Church convened in a Conference and organized in various Quorums of the Priesthood who voted by Quorums after which the body of the Church were asked to vote to sustain the above books as the Standards of the Church....
"Now all doctrine if it can't be established by these standards is not to be taught or promulgated by members. That those Patriarchs who persisted in teaching these things and did not stop when told to do so should be handled by their Bishops and their names sent up to the High Councils for further action and be cut off."
- Elder Thomas A. Clawson, Journal of Thomas A. Clawson, 1912-1917 Book, pp. 69-70, April 8, 1912
"Brother Horne and I chatted again tonight about the Gospel and the Adam-God Doctrine, as we have done many times before. Brother Horne, who grew up in Salt Lake City and was the son of Richard Horne and grandson of Joseph Horne said, in reference to the Adam-God Doctrine, that when he first went through the Temple for his Endowment in 1902 before going on his mission he was surprised to hear the teachings during the Temple ceremony in the sermon before the veil, that 'Adam was our God' and that 'he came here with Eve, one of his wives.' Also it was taught that 'Eve bore our spirits' (i.e. the spirits of all men). He asked his father about it but he declined to give any opinion about it. After Brother Horne returned from his mission a few years later, in 1905, he noted these teachings had been removed from the Temple ceremony. He feels that they were left over from Brigham Young's influence, but that the himself couldn't believe such doctrine. He thinks perhaps Brigham just got off in his speculation."
- Patriarch J. Arthur Horne, The Elder's Journal, v. 1, by C. Jess Groesbeck, p. 29
"Pres. Jensen referred to the condition of some of the High Priests in the Malad Ward who were contending one with another concerning some point of doctrine, which they did not understand. The point in dispute being, was Adam was God, some taking the affirmation and some the negative of the question. That was not right. We ought to allow these matters to rest until our minds were better informed regarding them."
- "Minutes of the High Priests Quorum," Feb. 24, 1880, p. 86 (Box Elder Stake)
"ADAM, THE FATHER AND GOD OF THE HUMAN FAMILY
"The above sentiment appeared in Star No. 48, a little to the surprise of some of its readers; and while the sentiment may have appeared blasphemous to the ignorant, it has no doubt given rise to some serious reflections with the more candid and comprehensive mind. A few reasonable and scriptural ideas upon this subject may be profitable at the present time.
"Then Adam is really God! And why not? If there are Lords many and Gods many, as the scriptures inform us, why not our Father Adam be one of them?"
- Mission President Samuel W. Richards, Millennial Star, v. 15, p. 801
"It has been said that Adam is the God and Father of the human family, and persons are perhaps in fear and great trouble of mind, lest they have to acknowledge him as such in some future day. For our part we would much rather acknowledge Adam to be our Father than hunt for another and take up with the devil. Whoever is acknowledged Father must have the rights and honor that belong to him. No man may ever expect to attain to more than he is willing others should enjoy. If these things have power to disturb the pure mind, we apprehend that even greater troubles than these may arise before mankind learn all the particulars of Christ's incarnation---Whatever may prove to be the facts in the case it certainly would exhibit a great degree of weakness on the part of anyone to indulge in fears and anxieties about that which he has no power to control. Facts still remain facts whether kept or revealed. If there is a way pointed out by which all beings who come into this world can lay the foundation for rule, and a never-ending increase of kingdoms and dominions, by which they can become Gods, we are all willing the Lord Jesus Christ should enjoy them all as any other being, ascribing honor and power to him as their God. The Apostle informs us that those who are redeemed shall be like Jesus; not to say, however, that they shall be wifeless and childless, and without eternal affections. It should be borne in mind that these wonderful mysteries, as they are supposed to be, are only mysteries because of the ignorance of men; and when men and women are troubled in spirit over these things which come to light through the proper channel of intelligence, they only betray their weakness, ignorance, and folly."
- Mission President Samuel W. Richards, Millennial Star, v. 15, p. 842

"It has been said that Adam is the God and Father of the human family, and persons are perhaps in fear and great trouble of mind, lest they have to acknowledge him as such in some future day. For our part we would much rather acknowledge Adam to be our Father, than hunt for another, and take up with the devil."
- Millennial Star, v. 15, p. 825
"… every Knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that he [Adam] is the God of the whole earth. Then will the words of the Prophet Brigham, when speaking of Adam, be fully realized..."
- Millennial Star, v. 17, p. 195
"... some of the officers have not met in council for three years. They are lacking faith on one principle – the looast 'cat that was let out of the bag.' Polygamy had been gotten over pretty well, that cloud had vanished away, but they are troubled about Adam being our Father and God."
- Millennial Star, v. 16, p. 482
"Concerning the item of doctrine alluded to by Elder Caffall and others, viz., that Adam is our Father and God, I have to say do not trouble yourselves...If, as Elder Caffall remarked, there are those who are waiting at the door of the Church for this objection to be removed, tell such, the Prophet and Apostle Brigham has declared it, and that it is the word of the Lord."
- President F.D. Richards, Millennial Star, v. 16, August 26, 1854, p. 334
"The introduction of the Law of Celestial Marriage, which in its operations, will revolutionize all our political, religious, and domestic arrangements; and the announcement of the position of Adam, our great progenitor, occupies among the Gods; have marked your Presidency as a special epoch in the history of the British Mission."
- Millennial Star, June 1854, v. 16, p. 629
"The Seer, the 'Great First Cause," and certain articles by Orson Pratt on the Holy Spirit were disowned by the Church. The people of the Church were asked to destroy his questionable writings."
- Millennial Star, v. 27, p. 698, Nov. 1865
A Voice of Dissent:
"President John Taylor
Sir,
Duty imperatively demands that as I am about to withdraw from the Church over which you preside I make known to you and to all whom it may concern the reasons which have compelled me to take this step.
When I joined the Mormon Church a little over 5 years ago I believed implicitly as I do now that the Bible was the word of God and the Rule of Faith and while the 'Book of Mormon' and 'Doctrine and Covenants' were referred to as additional revelation they no where contradicted the Bible but rather established it.
Before joining the Church I became acquainted with Elders Wm. Budge, John Nicholson, Francis Cope, james L. Bunting, and others. Elder Nicholson preached from the Bible only and almost entirely dwelt on what is known as the first principles claiming that these principles were what had been introduced by our Savior and preached by his immediate apostles but that men had wandered away from them and had fallen into darkness and superstition. I had heard a great many things about the Mormons that were nothing to their credit consequently the eminent social qualities and gentlemanly conduct of Elder Cope won my admiration and esteem. I was greatly pleased to find him a monogamist for while I

could not deny that many good men in the past had had more wives than one, I never for one moment assented to the idea that there was any virtue in such a proceeding or that it merited or would receive any reward.
I joined your Church on the 20th of May 1879 and during the first 2 years of my membership I faithfully adhered to it and would have given my life to defend it, during all this time I never heard of Adam being God, never heard of Blood Atonement, never heard of polygamy being required of all men before they could attain to highest glory. Never dreamed that Brigham Young or any one else coolly threw the Bible overboard and preached whatever they pleased which I was bound to accept as revelations of God. I do not and cannot cease these men of having told me anything absolutely false, but they certainly withheld the horrible. I was in the Church some five years before I heard or knew anything about those things – doctrines against which my soul revolts...
I imagined that I had come to the kingdom of God to help build it up! What did I find? I found that God, the God of the Bible is not even worshipped by the Church over which you preside, the God you worship is Adam. Brigham Young teaches I quote his words, 'When our Father Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body and brought Eve one of his wives with him. He is our Father and our God and the ONLY God with whom we have to do.' At first I could not bring myself to believe that this doctrine was accepted by the Church, but on careful inquiry found to my horror and astonishment that it was really so. It is true a great many know nothing about it and are simply in ignorance. Those who do not know accept it as far more to be relied on than any portion of the Bible, for say they the Bible has been translated over and over again and may be wrong but this is the direct teaching of a Great Prophet.
I reject this as abominable and horrible idolatry and give it as one reason why I cannot remain in your Church."
- "Letter to Pres. John Talyor from Scott Anderson," Sept. 22, 1884
 

Yeah, a lot of things disagree in early Mormonism. That’s a natural part of development.

[mfbukowski]

Just now, Benjamin Seeker said:

They aren’t! It’s just fun to dive in and figure it out.

And besides whatever you " figure out,"  you are right. 

One of the principles of pragmatism is that if there is an difference without a practical distinction it is all irrelevant to discuss.

[CV75]

11 hours ago, co-eternal said:

Their intention was to teach us what we needed to know to see the big picture.

The big picture is the comprehension of each particle; that is why covenants are administered to individuals and we begin to comprehend God with a particle of faith.

“Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God. And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore.”

“Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.”

“…ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”

They taught us what we need to know to see God. "And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God. Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest. And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh; For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live."

[JLHPROF]

6 hours ago, CMZ said:

"Adam … was the first man, who is spoken of in Daniel as being the ‘Ancient of Days’ [Daniel 7:9], or in other words, the first and oldest of all, the great, grand progenitor of whom it is said in another place he is Michael, because he was the first and father of all, not only by progeny, but the first to hold the spiritual blessings, to whom was made known the plan of ordinances for the salvation of his posterity unto the end, and to whom Christ was first revealed, and through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven, and will continue to be revealed from henceforth. Adam holds the keys of the dispensation of the fullness of times; i.e., the dispensation of all the times have been and will be revealed through him from the beginning to Christ, and from Christ to the end of all the dispensations that are to be revealed...."

"This, then, is the nature of the Priesthood; every man holding the Presidency of his dispensation, and one man holding the Presidency of them all, even Adam; and Adam receiving his Presidency and authority from the Lord, but cannot receive a fullness until Christ shall present the Kingdom to the Father, which shall be at the end of the last dispensation." (In this quote at least Adam, Christ, and the Father are three distinct beings... and it is clear that Adam does not now have and will not receive a fullness "until Christ shall present the Kingdom to the Father." Something to think about.

"through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven, and will continue to be revealed from henceforth."

Matthew 3:17, 3 Nephi 11:7, JS-H 1:17.

Yep, that works.

And in that last quote there are 4 distinct beings, not 3.  Adam did not receive his dispensational keys from a premortal Christ.  A spirit cannot ordain.  He received them from the Lord (Yaweh), a resurrected God.  He presides over the entire human family, of which Christ is part. Then at Adam-Ondi-Ahman all dispensations will be given to Father Adam AFTER which he will bestow that inheritance on his son Christ but maintain his position as head of this human family.

 

[co-eternal]

8 hours ago, co-eternal said:

Here are just a few that disagree:

 

So maybe history isn't your agenda. Recorded history is here on  display with no disharmony within it. Yet you disagree. hummmm .......

[co-eternal]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

The big picture is the comprehension of each particle; that is why covenants are administered to individuals and we begin to comprehend God with a particle of faith.

No, it's bigger than that, hence the need for the spirit during study.

[CV75]

12 minutes ago, co-eternal said:

No, it's bigger than that, hence the need for the spirit during study.

No, the Spirit is needed because it is smaller and needs finer discernment.

[co-eternal]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

"through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven, and will continue to be revealed from henceforth."

Matthew 3:17, 3 Nephi 11:7, JS-H 1:17.

Yep, that works.

And in that last quote there are 4 distinct beings, not 3.  Adam did not receive his dispensational keys from a premortal Christ.  A spirit cannot ordain.  He received them from the Lord (Yaweh), a resurrected God.  He presides over the entire human family, of which Christ is part. Then at Adam-Ondi-Ahman all dispensations will be given to Father Adam AFTER which he will bestow that inheritance on his son Christ but maintain his position as head of this human family.

 

It is actually official church doctrine that Adam and Eve were immortal beings of flesh and  bone when they entered the garden.

This alone makes Adam superior to Christ who, at that time, was a being of a spirit body, neither of flesh and blood or flesh and bone.

But I'm sure this will make no difference to most here. Facts don't seem to change opinion.

Quote

 

Joseph Fielding Smith (Quorum of the Twelve)

Adam had a spiritual body until mortality came upon him through the violation of the law under which he was living, but he also had a physical body of flesh and bones…. Now what is a spiritual body? It is one that is quickened by spirit and not by blood…. When Adam was in the Garden of Eden, he was not subject to death. There was no blood in his body and he could have remained there forever. This is true of all other creatures.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 1:76-77)

---

Not subject to death when he [Adam] was placed upon the earth, there had to come a change in his body through the partaking of this … fruit that brought blood into his body; and blood became the life of the body instead of spirit. And blood has in it the seeds of death, some mortal element. Mortality was created through the eating of the forbidden fruit. (Fall-Atonement-Resurrection-Sacrament, 125)

---

Why did Adam come here? Not subject to death when he was placed upon the earth, there had to come a change in his body through the partaking of this element--whatever you want to call it, fruit--that brought blood into his body; and blood became the life of the body instead of spirit. And blood has in it the seeds of death, some mortal element. Mortality was created through the eating of forbidden fruit, if you want to call it forbidden, but I think the Lord has made it clear that it was not forbidden. He merely said to Adam, if you want to stay here [in the garden] this is the situation. If so, don't eat it. ("The Sacrament and the Atonement," address given at the LDS institute of religion, Salt Lake City, 14 Jan. 1961, 5)

Boyd K. Packer (Quorum of the Twelve)

The word fall describes well what transpired when Adam and Eve were driven from the garden. A transformation took place which made them “a little lower than the angels.” (In the Hebrew text, the word “angel” is given as “gods,” see Ps 8:5, Heb 2:7-9.) The bodies formed for mankind became temporal or physical bodies. The scriptures say “the life of all flesh is in the blood thereof” (Lev 17:11-13; Deut 12:23; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 199-200, 367 Kimball 5-6).

After the transformation caused by the Fall, bodies of flesh and bone and blood (unlike our spirit bodies), would not endure forever. Somehow the ingredient blood carried with it a limit to life. It was as though a clock were set and a time given. Thereafter, all living things moved inexorably toward mortal or temporal death. Temporal, I repeat, means temporary. ("The Law and the Light," Book of Mormon Symposium, BYU, 30 October 1988).

Harold B. Lee (Quorum of the Twelve)

Adam and Eve had now exercised their agency and of their own volition had partaken of the fruit of which they were commanded not to eat,and thus they had become subject to the law of Satan.... Instead of spirit fluid, which had made them not subject to death, there had now come another element. The life of the body is the blood, and in the bloodstream there were to be found the seeds that were to bring about their mortal death. ("The Fall of Man," Lecture Given to Seminary and Institute Teachers, June 23, 1954, Brigham Young University)

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by co-eternal
fix

[Benjamin Seeker]

36 minutes ago, co-eternal said:

So maybe history isn't your agenda. Recorded history is here on  display with no disharmony within it. Yet you disagree. hummmm .......

You might be missing my point. Brigham and Joseph don’t agree, and we’ve demonstrated that in our back and forth. That is the typical of the development in religion. It’s not that I personally agree or disagree with anything. I just look at JS saying one thing and I look at Brigham saying another thing, and instead of harmonizing them, I look at the context and see what the most likely development was.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Benjamin Seeker

[co-eternal]

8 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

Sounds like we should agree to disagree on a number of issues, and that’s OK.

It is only me that you disagree with in that you disagree with the facts. But it is your choice.

But then that is what Brigham said:

Quote

How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine, which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God...Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first women upon this earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys to everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth..."well," says one " Why was Adam called Adam"? He was the first man on earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren brought it into existence. Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery? (Brigham Young in the Desert News, June 18, 1873)

 

[co-eternal]

9 hours ago, CMZ said:

"Adam … was the first man, who is spoken of in Daniel as being the ‘Ancient of Days’ [Daniel 7:9], or in other words, the first and oldest of all, the great, grand progenitor of whom it is said in another place he is Michael, because he was the first and father of all, not only by progeny, but the first to hold the spiritual blessings, to whom was made known the plan of ordinances for the salvation of his posterity unto the end, and to whom Christ was first revealed, and through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven, and will continue to be revealed from henceforth. Adam holds the keys of the dispensation of the fullness of times; i.e., the dispensation of all the times have been and will be revealed through him from the beginning to Christ, and from Christ to the end of all the dispensations that are to be revealed...."

"This, then, is the nature of the Priesthood; every man holding the Presidency of his dispensation, and one man holding the Presidency of them all, even Adam; and Adam receiving his Presidency and authority from the Lord, but cannot receive a fullness until Christ shall present the Kingdom to the Father, which shall be at the end of the last dispensation." (In this quote at least Adam, Christ, and the Father are three distinct beings... and it is clear that Adam does not now have and will not receive a fullness "until Christ shall present the Kingdom to the Father." Something to think about.)

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-8?lang=eng&_r=1#title6

Quote

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret…We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible… The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the son power - to do what? Why what the Father did. The answer is obvious - in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And, I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me... What did Jesus Do? ‘Why I do the things I saw my father do when worlds came rolling into existence, my Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my father so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, an it will exalt Him in glory, He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself.’ So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn the First Principles of the Gospel, about which so much has been said. When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top…It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.” (Excerpts from the King Follet Discourse, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345-348)

 

[co-eternal]

10 minutes ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

You might be missing my point. Brigham and Joseph don’t agree, and we’ve demonstrated that in our back and forth. That is the typical of the development in religion. It’s not that I personally agree or disagree with anything. I just look at JS saying one thing and I look at Brigham saying another thing, and instead of harmonizing them, I look at the context and see what the most likely development was.

That is your assertion that the facts just don't support.

These truths were restored through Joseph Smith who taught Brigham Young. Brigham Young then went to the same source from which Joseph received them. Would they have received different truths from the same source?

Any claim that these two true messengers from the Father, prophets of the restoration are out of harmony concerning these eternal truths is out of ignorance of the teachings of one or the other, or both.

[Benjamin Seeker]

56 minutes ago, co-eternal said:

That is your assertion that the facts just don't support.

Don't take this as confrontational, but, as you likely already know, yours is a minority opinion. Historians who have addressed the subject find tension between JS and Brigham. Another example, is that the mainstream LDS church has rejected Adam-God, in part because it doesn't harmonize easily with the scriptures. For example, Bruce R. Mckonkie acknowledged that Brigham taught Adam-God and then asserted that Brigham was incorrect. 

Quote

These truths were restored through Joseph Smith who taught Brigham Young. Brigham Young then went to the same source from which Joseph received them. Would they have received different truths from the same source?

I personally don't believe revelation is as clean and as neat as you suggest. I find that the content of revelation is largely context specific, which would allow JS and Brigham to learn very different things from revelatory experiences, and would also allow for the multitude of contrasting revelatory experiences that exist in the religions and cultures of the world. 

Quote

Any claim that these two true messengers from the Father, prophets of the restoration are out of harmony concerning these eternal truths is out of ignorance of the teachings of one or the other, or both.

I'm certainly not ignorant of their teachings, as hopefully I've demonstrated in our debate. I don't believe you are ignorant either. I think at the crux of our disagreement is an unshared ideology, the ideology that JS and Brigham were in doctrinal harmony.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Benjamin Seeker

[Benjamin Seeker]

1 hour ago, co-eternal said:

It is only me that you disagree with in that you disagree with the facts. But it is your choice.

But then that is what Brigham said:

 

I have given plenty of facts that disagree with you, and I'm a latecomer, meaning many before me have presented similar facts showing that JS doesn't harmonize with Brigham. That is one of the major reasons Adam-God is controversial to begin with.

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

I have given plenty of facts that disagree with you, and I'm a latecomer, meaning many before me have presented similar facts showing that JS doesn't harmonize with Brigham. That is one of the major reasons Adam-God is controversial to begin with.

I don't believe that to be the case.
I don't think Joseph had the full information on Adam-God.  I think he definitely taught things contrary to Adam-God prior to the restoration of temple ordinances and was just coming to the beginning of understanding the doctrine prior to his death.  I think that the KFD was one of the first inclinations he expressed towards Adam-God and likely one of the primary influences on Brigham's exposition of the doctrine.  Joseph from 1830-1842 would have no reason to agree with Brigham.  From 1842-1844 his doctrine was undergoing constant expansion, revelation, and revision.

When it comes to Adam-God we simply don't know what Joseph's thoughts on the full doctrine taught by Brigham would have been.  We can only speculate based on the progression and path his thinking and teachings were following.