Adam God Theory

[Brian 2.0]

The lecture at the veil (linked to earlier by iamse7en) is one of the clearest we have on the doctrine.

 

Adam was an immortal being when he came. on this earth he had lived on an earth similar to ours he had received the Priesthood and the Keys thereof. and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation and was crowned with glory immortality and eternal lives and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness. and had begotten all the spirit that was to come to this earth. and Eve our common Mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial world. and when this earth was organized by Elohim. Jehovah & Michael who is Adam our common Father. Adam & Eve had the privilege to continue the work of Progression

 

Many of the apparent contradictions in Brigham's words come for a misunderstanding of who "Elohim" is.  In modern usage LDS refer to Elohim as OUR Heavenly Father.  Brigham Young seems to indicate the Elohim as Our Heavenly Father's Father -- in essence our Spiritual Grandfather

Edited January 17, 2015 by Brian 2.0

[JLHPROF]

Both carbon dioxide and Avatar4321 are entirely correct.

 

Nope -see below.

 

The lecture at the veil is one of the clearest we have on the doctrine.

 

Adam was an immortal being when he came. on this earth he had lived on an earth similar to ours he had received the Priesthood and the Keys thereof. and had been faithful in all things and gained his resurrection and his exaltation and was crowned with glory immortality and eternal lives and was numbered with the Gods for such he became through his faithfulness. and had begotten all the spirit that was to come to this earth. and Eve our common Mother who is the mother of all living bore those spirits in the celestial world. and when this earth was organized by Elohim. Jehovah & Michael who is Adam our common Father. Adam & Eve had the privilege to continue the work of Progression

 

Many of the apparent contradictions in Brigham's words come for a misunderstanding of who "Elohim" is.  In modern usage LDS refer to Elohim as OUR Heavenly Father.  Brigham Young seems to indicate the Elohim as Our Heavenly Father's Father -- in essence our Spiritual Grandfather

 

Straight out of the temple.

Yep, that's what Brigham not only taught but was part of the temple endowment for a couple of decades before falling out of fashion.  That's what tens of thousands of Latter-Day Saints were taught as official doctrine every time they went through the house of the Lord.

 

Anyone whose can't understand these simple words should study the subject more before pronouncing absolute teachings of Brigham Young.  NO room for misquote there.

[JLHPROF]

Many of the apparent contradictions in Brigham's words come for a misunderstanding of who "Elohim" is. 

 

I would agree with this.  I have studied the Adam-God doctrine in depth.  I am convinced of its truthfulness.  I am convinced Brigham was neither misquoted or misunderstood.

I believe that (as long as we stick to the basics of the doctrine as taught by the prophets) that it is one of the simplest doctrines ever revealed.

I believe it dovetails perfectly with the King Follett Discourse and that Joseph both knew of and understood the Adam-God doctrine.

 

Of ALL the 1800's teachings that the Church has disowned (and there are many) this is the one that completely astounds me since there is absolutely nothing offensive in it.

 

I believe it 's true, based on study and on spiritual witness.  Brigham was a prophet.  So were John, Wilford, Lorenzo, Joseph F. and all the apostles who taught this doctrine.  And I still believe it to be true today and to make much more sense than our more recent theories.

[carbon dioxide]

Or perhaps you misunderstood which Father and Son he was referring to.

 

 

Trying to remove Michael/Adam from Godhood and replace him with the Holy Ghost and trying to combine Christ's spirit body with the OT Jehovah so we are left with just one Godhead that has never changed since forever has left more holes in the scriptures, temple ceremonies, and teachings of the prophets than you can shake a stick at.

 

If we had left Adam-God alone as Brigham taught it it would make much more sense with established revelation and much fewer questions raised about the Godhead every five minutes.

Well I know in the creation account, God, Jesus and Michael are involved.  The Holy Ghost seems to be missing.  That does mean he was not there but he does not seem to be the primary members of the team.   I believe in interpreting Brigham Young comments with established revelation.  So I use the established revelations and fit the part of Brigham Young statements that are consistent with them.  The rest I will leave to Brigham Young to explain when I see him.

Edited January 18, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[carbon dioxide]

I would agree with this.  I have studied the Adam-God doctrine in depth.  I am convinced of its truthfulness.  I am convinced Brigham was neither misquoted or misunderstood.

I believe that (as long as we stick to the basics of the doctrine as taught by the prophets) that it is one of the simplest doctrines ever revealed.

I believe it dovetails perfectly with the King Follett Discourse and that Joseph both knew of and understood the Adam-God doctrine.

 

Of ALL the 1800's teachings that the Church has disowned (and there are many) this is the one that completely astounds me since there is absolutely nothing offensive in it.

 

I believe it 's true, based on study and on spiritual witness.  Brigham was a prophet.  So were John, Wilford, Lorenzo, Joseph F. and all the apostles who taught this doctrine.  And I still believe it to be true today and to make much more sense than our more recent theories.

I don't understand every sentence that he gave.  I don't know if he misspoke or whatever but much I do agree with.  I think Brigham was just explaining something about Adam that the modern Christian world does not have a clue about and probably what most members of the church then and even today don't understand.  Adam is a very important figure and has been placed in a very important position.  I think many of us will be surprised when we get to the other side of what role he plays and how much work he does.   Adam seems to have something that Christ currently does not possess.  I don't know exactly what that something s but it requires Christ to leave the presence of the Father in heaven and go to Adam where Adam is in Daniel 7 and have Adam transfer to Christ something so Christ can fully obtain "dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." (verse 14)  Christ needs something from Adam for that to happen.  Right now, that something resides with Adam.

Edited January 18, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[JLHPROF]

Well I know in the creation account, God, Jesus and Michael are involved. 

 

Maybe.  If Jehovah IS Jesus Christ then the Adam-God doctrine has several problems with it.

Personally, I don't believe Jesus to be the Jehovah of the OT and Creation. 

 

 

The Holy Ghost seems to be missing.  That does mean he was not there but he does not seem to be the primary members of the team.

 

That's because spirit beings with no physical bodies have not progressed far enough to create physical bodies.  That is why Christ is not Jehovah the creator.

 

Under the Adam-God teachings it would be more accurate to say that in the creation account Eloheim (the Head God), Jehovah (Adam's God) and Michael/Adam (Heavenly Father) were involved.

 

I love this doctrine...I wish it was still considered official instead of a heresy.  But, I guess I get to be a heretic.

Edited January 18, 2015 by JLHPROF

[Lachoneus]

Nope -see below.

Yup, you are still wrong.

 

Straight out of the temple.

Nope. That is not out of the temple. That is straight out of Nuttall's private journal.

 

Anyone whose can't understand these simple words should study the subject more before pronouncing absolute teachings of Brigham Young.  NO room for misquote there.

I have studied this much more than you. Please tell us which Adam is President Young describing here? You are aware that President Young clearly taught the existence of more than one person named Adam, aren't you?

[carbon dioxide]

Maybe.  If Jehovah IS Jesus Christ then the Adam-God doctrine has several problems with it.

Personally, I don't believe Jesus to be the Jehovah of the OT and Creation. 

 

 

That's because spirit beings with no physical bodies have not progressed far enough to create physical bodies.  That is why Christ is not Jehovah the creator.

 

Under the Adam-God teachings it would be more accurate to say that in the creation account Eloheim (the Head God), Jehovah (Adam's God) and Michael/Adam (Heavenly Father) were involved.

 

I love this doctrine...I wish it was still considered official instead of a heresy.  But, I guess I get to be a heretic.

I don't go with it that far.  If Christ created the earth, black holes, stars, he should be able to create physical bodies.  A body is composed of matter just as everything else in the universe is. So i will not exclude that possibility. 

 

And of course our Heavenly Mother may be involved as well.  I am sort of inclined to believe that in the statement in Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh" that the words "father and his mother" are referring to Adam's father and mother as he is person the statement is being directed at.  Adam had an actual father and mother.  Adam physical father is Heavenly Father and his physical mother is our Heavenly Mother.  At least that is how I see it.  Yes the scriptures say that Adam was formed from the dust but they also say that we all came from the dust.  I know however that even though I came from the dust that I did not appear out of nowhere.  My mother gave birth to me.  Did our Heavenly Mother give birth to Adam?  Maybe.  I can't exclude it.

Edited January 18, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[JLHPROF]

Nope. That is not out of the temple. That is straight out of Nuttall's private journal.

 

Correct.  It was then placed in the St. George Temple book and administered as a lecture there with EVERY endowment for decades.  You are correct about where it was first recorded but completely wrong about whether or not it was in the temple.

 

 

I have studied this much more than you. Please tell us which Adam is President Young describing here? You are aware that President Young clearly taught the existence of more than one person named Adam, aren't you?

 

Oh, you think?

Yes, I am aware that Pres. Young taught about many people named Adam.  He also taught that Adam was our Father and our God and the only God with whom we have to do.  That would be the one spoke of here.

[VideoGameJunkie]

If Adam is Heavenly Father, then that means Eve is Heavenly Mother. It's weird thinking about it that way. It seems to make more sense that Eloheim is our Heavenly Father.

[Brian 2.0]

If Adam is Heavenly Father, then that means Eve is Heavenly Mother. It's weird thinking about it that way. It seems to make more sense that Eloheim is our Heavenly Father.

Maybe to you. And maybe period. But it made sense to Brigham.

[Hillel2]

Or perhaps you misunderstood which Father and Son he was referring to.

Trying to remove Michael/Adam from Godhood and replace him with the Holy Ghost and trying to combine Christ's spirit body with the OT Jehovah so we are left with just one Godhead that has never changed since forever has left more holes in the scriptures, temple ceremonies, and teachings of the prophets than you can shake a stick at.

If we had left Adam-God alone as Brigham taught it it would make much more sense with established revelation and much fewer questions raised about the Godhead every five minutes.

[VideoGameJunkie]

So are Jehova and Jesus the same person?

[Hillel2]

Or perhaps you misunderstood which Father and Son he was referring to.

Trying to remove Michael/Adam from Godhood and replace him with the Holy Ghost and trying to combine Christ's spirit body with the OT Jehovah so we are left with just one Godhead that has never changed since forever has left more holes in the scriptures, temple ceremonies, and teachings of the prophets than you can shake a stick at.

If we had left Adam-God alone as Brigham taught it it would make much more sense with established revelation and much fewer questions raised about the Godhead every five minutes.

[Hillel2]

Hello JLHPROF:

I'm having trouble getting the quote function to work. Just a quick question, if You will, concerning Your model. Do You hold that, when reading the New Testament, Father in Heaven should be equated with Adam? If so, do You see that as a partial explanation for his apparently gentler personality when compared with Elokim or YHWH of the pre-christian scripture? Thank You.

[JLHPROF]

So are Jehova and Jesus the same person?

 

Church today says yes.  Church in the days of Brigham said no - Jehovah was a resurrected being (a full God) during the OT, Christ was a premortal spirit yet to receive his body.

 

So officially yes, in my opinion, no.

[JLHPROF]

Hello JLHPROF:

I'm having trouble getting the quote function to work. Just a quick question, if You will, concerning Your model. Do You hold that, when reading the New Testament, Father in Heaven should be equated with Adam?

 

In my opinion, yes, Heavenly Father in the NT was Adam.

 

 

If so, do You see that as a partial explanation for his apparently gentler personality when compared with Elokim or YHWH of the pre-christian scripture? Thank You.

 

I'm not sure I see any relationship here at all.  However, some would say that the personality change between Eloheim/YHWH in the OT and both the Father and the Son in the NT is dramatic.  Either they are different people or their actions were recorded from very differing perspectives.

I do not believe they are the same people.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Knowing the full truth of this topic and who everyone really is/was would blow my mind, but I wish to know.

[Brian 2.0]

Church today says yes. Church in the days of Brigham said no - Jehovah was a resurrected being (a full God) during the OT, Christ was a premortal spirit yet to receive his body.

So officially yes, in my opinion, no.

So is it your understanding that, according to BY, Jehovah is Adam's Spiritual Father and Eloheim is a separate God and is not Adam's spiritual father?

How Jehovah fits into the equation is always the harder question.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I find it troubling that many of what Brigham Young taught is no longer accepted today. I mean he was a prophet for crying out loud. Polygamy, Adam-God, blacks priesthood band, blood atonement. None of those are applicable today. How could a prophet of God be so wrong on so many issues? And how can we trust other prophets that they aren't making mistakes as well?

[sunstoned]

I find it troubling that many of what Brigham Young taught is no longer accepted today. I mean he was a prophet for crying out loud. Polygamy, Adam-God, blacks priesthood band, blood atonement. None of those are applicable today. How could a prophet of God be so wrong on so many issues? And how can we trust other prophets that they aren't making mistakes as well?

Doesn't inspire a lot of confidants does it?

[Hillel2]

In my opinion, yes, Heavenly Father in the NT was Adam.

I'm not sure I see any relationship here at all. However, some would say that the personality change between Eloheim/YHWH in the OT and both the Father and the Son in the NT is dramatic. Either they are different people or their actions were recorded from very differing perspectives.

I do not believe they are the same people.

[Hillel2]

In my opinion, yes, Heavenly Father in the NT was Adam.

I'm not sure I see any relationship here at all. However, some would say that the personality change between Eloheim/YHWH in the OT and both the Father and the Son in the NT is dramatic. Either they are different people or their actions were recorded from very differing perspectives.

I do not believe they are the same people.

[Hillel2]

To JLHPROF: Sorry i shouldn't post from my phone but i'd like to hear more about how Your model works and how it harmonises with available scripture.

Do You see different Dispensations as being under different divine beinga, e.g. Adam mostly under Elokim, Moses mostly under YHWH, Jesus under Adam/Heavenly Father, current dispensation under Jesus???

[JAHS]

I find it troubling that many of what Brigham Young taught is no longer accepted today. I mean he was a prophet for crying out loud. Polygamy, Adam-God, blacks priesthood band, blood atonement. None of those are applicable today. How could a prophet of God be so wrong on so many issues? And how can we trust other prophets that they aren't making mistakes as well?

 

Most of what he taught was right for his time, but apparently not right for our time; hence the reason for having a current prophet so we can know what God wants us to know and do for our time. 

If we can't trust our prophets today, who are we going to trust instead?  Ourselves?  I'd be in big trouble if I did that. So far I am enjoying and agreeing with the fruits and leadership of our current prophets. 

Edited January 18, 2015 by JAHS