LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Revelation says not to add to that prophecy. Nobody added anything to Revelation. It has nothing to do with additional books being added to canon. When those words were written there was no Bible and no canon to apply them to. If God still speaks to man then scripture is still being created. If the Holy Spirit still inspires men then scripture is still being created. If the hand of God is still observed and recorded in the lives of men then scripture is still being created. No servant of God and not even God himself has ever said otherwise. What is scripture? If I write a biography is it scripture --- why or why not? If I make a movie, is that scripture? Is a newspaper scripture? Is the Koran scripture ---why or why not? Edited November 3, 2017 by LittleNipper
Jane_Doe Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: NO! Thank you for finally answering the question. Now follow up question: how can you have multiple Bibles which are all supposedly uncorrupted and infallible, but have different books? 12 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Do you believe that the book of Mormon is necessary for salvation? Yes or no! No book saves. Christ saves. Scriptures (Bible and Book of Mormon etc) are places where His words are written. There have been times and places where individuals have not had their hands directly on these written scriptures themselves and still learned/came to Christ. Obvious example, all people before books of Moses were written down. I will answer a follow up of yours after you directly answer my follow up question. Edited November 3, 2017 by Jane_Doe 1
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: No. There is no salvation between the lids of the Bible or any other scripture without a legal adminstrator. (To paraphrase Joseph). Christ is the head of the Church ----- is He not? He died in my place and arose so that I may live forever --- Doesn't that make Him the perfect administrator?
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Thank you for finally answering the question. Now follow up question: how can you have multiple Bibles which are all supposedly uncorrupted and infallible, but have different books? No book saves. Christ saves. Scriptures (Bible and Book of Mormon etc) are places where His words are written. There have been times and places where individuals have not had their hands directly on these written scriptures themselves and still learned/came to Christ. Obvious example, all people before books of Moses were written down. I will answer a follow up of yours after you directly answer my follow up question. Romans 10:11-13 11As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”f 14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”g 16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”h 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 34 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Once again: do you believe the Bibles used by majority of Christendom are corrupt? A "yes" or "no" will suffice. No.
JLHPROF Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: What is scripture? If I write a biography is it scripture --- why or why not? If I make a movie, is that scripture? Is a newspaper scripture? Is the Koran scripture ---why or why not? Scripture is a record of God's interaction with man, or God's word through inspired men. So unless you believe God stopped interacting with us and inspiring us then new scripture is always possible. 2
Jane_Doe Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Romans 10:11-13 11As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”f 14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”g 16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”h 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. That's not an answer to my question. Please use your own words, as this is about your beliefs. I will not arrive at your beliefs from you quoting the Bible. How can you have multiple Bibles which are all supposedly uncorrupted and infallible, but have different books? Edited November 3, 2017 by Jane_Doe
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 All Christian Bibles contain punctuation, chapters, and verses. Most contain an introduction and index. Such was not part of the original text. It is not inspired in the scriptural sense of the word; however, such certainly makes the Bible easier to study.
Jane_Doe Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: All Christian Bibles contain punctuation, chapters, and verses. Most contain an introduction and index. Such was not part of the original text. It is not inspired in the scriptural sense of the word; however, such certainly makes the Bible easier to study. Again: How can you have multiple Bibles which are all supposedly uncorrupted and infallible, but have different books?
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: That's not an sewer to my question. Please use your own words, as this is about your beliefs. This is EXACTLY what I believe. The Bible says it perfectly. One needs the Word of God to become saved. That word can arrive orally, but without divine revelation all we have are my words against those of someone else. And someone needs to act as the preacher of those words. Even Jonah understood this.
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Again: How can you have multiple Bibles which are all supposedly uncorrupted and infallible, but have different books? One needs to read and one will be saved by the truth and not by that which is deceptive. I know people who have been saved by only reading the Gospels. I know of another who was saved by reading Romans. I may also add that my father was saved using his Catholic Bible but now owns an NIV version without an Apocrypha because he has been inspired to understand that they are not inspired.
Jane_Doe Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: This is EXACTLY what I believe. The Bible says it perfectly. One needs the Word of God to become saved. That word can arrive orally, but without divine revelation all we have are my words against those of someone else. And someone needs to act as the preacher of those words. Even Jonah understood this. I am specifically interested in YOUR interpretation. Hence, I would appreciate it if you explained your views in your words. My studies of the Bible and communing with the Spirit have lead me to different conclusions that the ones you are showing here, hence you just quoting verses does not help me understand your beliefs. How can you have multiple Bibles which are all supposedly uncorrupted and infallible, but have different books? Edited November 3, 2017 by Jane_Doe
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: I am specifically interested in YOUR interpretation. Hence, I would appreciate it if you explained your views in your words. How can you have multiple Bibles which are all supposedly uncorrupted and infallible, but have different books? You seem to take exception to being badgered. How come you don't hold yourself to the very same standard? I've explained it. Now explain why anyone would need either the book of Mormon or accept Mormon prophets as necessary to any purpose? Where have either corrected the Bible? One needs to read and one will be saved by the truth and not by that which is deceptive. I know people who have been saved by only reading the Gospels. I know of another who was saved by reading Romans. I may also add that my father was saved using his Catholic Bible but now owns an NIV version without an Apocrypha because he has been inspired to understand that they are not inspired. Edited November 3, 2017 by LittleNipper
Jane_Doe Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 1 minute ago, LittleNipper said: I've explained it. No you have not. Please explain using your own words, not a Bible quote. Quoting the Bible will not help me understand YOUR views as studying the Bible has led me to VERY different conclusions than the one's you talking about here. 1
Avatar4321 Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 Why does the Bible need to be infallible? Its a tool to point us to Christ. Christ is infallible. We put our Trust in Him. He is flawless and the source of our salvation 1
The Nehor Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 2 hours ago, LittleNipper said: Revelation clearly says not to add prophecy additionally to that book. Any latter revelation would be adding to the Revelation. The pastors, minister, and theologians today apply the Bible to everyday considerations with inspired understanding. The Bible is complete with regard to Christ and His Church. The Book of Revelation also reveals that 2 witnesses will appear during the Tribulation. So we are back to this. Brings us back to you treating that command in Revelation as sancrosanct and twist beyond all reasonable meaning and ignore that Deuteronomy says something similar. You could say it was a mistake or exaggeration but the Bible is infallible, any time your logic collapses you ignore that comment or go back to preaching and testifying. It is almost as if you are trying to pretend you are being logical about this when you already picked the ending you want? There is nothing wrong with that. No one here is going to shake my faith either with the tidbits posted here but you should stop pretending your irrational justifications are rational. Go ahead with your beliefs but you should probably give up the debating proselyting game until your message makes more sense outside your own little bubble. Nehor Out! 1
mfbukowski Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 12 hours ago, JLHPROF said: And again. Between you and Nipper it's impossible to get straight answers from traditional Christians. YOU quoted Psalms 12:6-7 as evidence that the Bible had been preserved whole, pure and uncorrupted. Except when Psalms was written there was no Bible and the writer of Psalms had no intention of referring to the Bible. If anything, they were referring to the law, which was all the Bible they had at that time. And then Christ came and told us there was a higher way. He has no credibility whatsoever with me.
thesometimesaint Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 4 hours ago, LittleNipper said: This is EXACTLY what I believe. The Bible says it perfectly. One needs the Word of God to become saved. That word can arrive orally, but without divine revelation all we have are my words against those of someone else. And someone needs to act as the preacher of those words. Even Jonah understood this. The Bible does not say it is perfect. The Bible does not reference itself at all. So you are preaching to us. That clears that up.
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 7 hours ago, Jane_Doe said: No you have not. Please explain using your own words, not a Bible quote. Quoting the Bible will not help me understand YOUR views as studying the Bible has led me to VERY different conclusions than the one's you talking about here. I'll repeat in my own words. One needs to read and one will be saved by the truth and not by that which is deceptive. I know people who have been saved by only reading the Gospels. I know of another who was saved by reading Romans. I may also add that my father was saved using his Catholic Bible but now owns an NIV version without an Apocrypha because he has been inspired to understand that they are not inspired being entirely unnecessary to the epic of Christ and His redeeming power.
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 3 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: The Bible does not say it is perfect. The Bible does not reference itself at all. So you are preaching to us. That clears that up. The Bible does say that it will not be tampered with broken or changed.
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 4 hours ago, mfbukowski said: He has no credibility whatsoever with me. The Bible is a compilation of GOD's directive. The book of Mormon at it's very best only claims to be a mere random writing if family histories. It is in the shadow of this book of Mormon that you seem to be judging the Bible.
LittleNipper Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, The Nehor said: So we are back to this. Brings us back to you treating that command in Revelation as sancrosanct and twist beyond all reasonable meaning and ignore that Deuteronomy says something similar. You could say it was a mistake or exaggeration but the Bible is infallible, any time your logic collapses you ignore that comment or go back to preaching and testifying. It is almost as if you are trying to pretend you are being logical about this when you already picked the ending you want? There is nothing wrong with that. No one here is going to shake my faith either with the tidbits posted here but you should stop pretending your irrational justifications are rational. Go ahead with your beliefs but you should probably give up the debating proselyting game until your message makes more sense outside your own little bubble. Nehor Out! Deuteronomy 4:2-4New Life Version (NLV) 2 Do not add to the Word that I tell you, and do not take away from it. Keep the Laws of the Lord your God which I tell you. 3 Your eyes saw what the Lord did because of Baal-peor. The Lord your God destroyed from among you all the men who followed the Baal of Peor. 4 But you who stayed faithful to the Lord your God are all still living. So what is explained in Deuteronomy and how does that differ from what is being revealed in Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. Clue: One deals with the LAW and the NATION OF ISRAEL and the other deals with FUTURE PROPHECY and the CHURCH. Edited November 3, 2017 by LittleNipper
Calm Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 8 hours ago, LittleNipper said: All Christian Bibles contain punctuation, chapters, and verses. Most contain an introduction and index. Such was not part of the original text. It is not inspired in the scriptural sense of the word; however, such certainly makes the Bible easier to study. Unless the language is Hebrew or English, the words weren't in the original text either. There are many translations. Are all translations equally valid as the original texts and if not, how can one tell the difference between inspired and uninspired translations? 1
Calm Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Deuteronomy 4:2-4New Life Version (NLV) 2 Do not add to the Word that I tell you, and do not take away from it. Keep the Laws of the Lord your God which I tell you. 3 Your eyes saw what the Lord did because of Baal-peor. The Lord your God destroyed from among you all the men who followed the Baal of Peor. 4 But you who stayed faithful to the Lord your God are all alive today. So what is explained in Deuteronomy and how does that differ from what is being revealed in Revelation! The difference is that Deuteronomy excludes all the texts that were written after it by your logic as that would be adding to the Word. Edited November 3, 2017 by Calm 1
Calm Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 28 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: The Bible is a compilation of GOD's directive. The book of Mormon at it's very best only claims to be a mere random writing if family histories. It is in the shadow of this book of Mormon that you seem to be judging the Bible. Hardly random when they were commanded by God to record them.
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