Jane_Doe Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 2 hours ago, LittleNipper said: I'm saved and the devils simply know that Jesus is the the Christ!. They cannot be saved. And the fact that I'm saved makes me a Saint! If one is saved ---- meaning an adopted child of God --- one is a saint. Saints are saved but not perfect until they die and move on to heaven. Are you a robot? Aka, can you choose, or do you believe God has stripped you of that and made you into a robot?
FormerLDS Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 18 hours ago, Gray said: I don't think He did, an in any case, the word of God in the Bible is identified as Jesus - not the Bible. For starters, consider Psalm 12:6-7 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.” The fact that the Word of God is synonymous with Jesus Christ Himself should confirm the infallibility of the Word of God. He is His Word. Interestingly, you cannot provide one instance where an “original” text reveals doctrinal change than what we have in the KJV, but if we take this same philosophy of “changed scripture” to the Book of Mormon, one can easily see doctrinal change within the original BoM and the version we have today...yet the BoM is still somehow completely acceptable and trustworthy. Very interesting indeed. "Convenient" might be a better word...
JLHPROF Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: For starters, consider Psalm 12:6-7 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.” What does that have to do with preserving the Bible as a whole, unaltered, infallible, and correct? The Bible wasn't even one volume until almost 1000 years AFTER that Psalm was written. It was continuing to be added to, adjusted, new doctrines revealed, etc for a millennia after those words were written. 2
Jane_Doe Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: For starters, consider Psalm 12:6-7 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.” The fact that the Word of God is synonymous with Jesus Christ Himself should confirm the infallibility of the Word of God. He is His Word. The Bible =/= Christ. The Word = Christ. The Bible is a compilation of books, which books that cannot even be agreed upon by Christians. The book doesn't save. Christ saves.
FormerLDS Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 18 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: Since it’s apparent you believe the Bible is an inerrant and perfect guide into all truth, I would very much appreciate it if you could demonstrate how the Bible’s inerrancy provides for a perfect understanding of the will of God and all his eternal truths by answering the following simple and straight forward question: All you need to do is tell me what infallible and perfect truths the Bible is communicating to us in the following three verses from Paul’s first epistle to the church at Corinth? 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? Being a former member, I no longer believe the same scriptural interpretations that support LDS doctrines, including the doctrine of "baptism for the dead". For that reason, my personal interpretation of all scripture differs from that of my LDS Christian friends.
FormerLDS Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: What does that have to do with preserving the Bible as a whole, unaltered, infallible, and correct? The Bible wasn't even one volume until almost 1000 years AFTER that Psalm was written. It was continuing to be added to, adjusted, new doctrines revealed, etc for a millennia after those words were written. The truth is, God's word is pure and He promised us He would preserve it from the generation it was written until today and forever. I refuse to believe there is a power strong enough or capable of changing that because I believe His word, and, in the end - like it or not - you will too.
Jane_Doe Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 1 minute ago, FormerLDS said: The truth is, God's word is pure and He promised us He would preserve it from the generation it was written until today and forever. I refuse to believe there is a power strong enough or capable of changing that because I believe His word, and, in the end - like it or not - you will too. Which Bible? How many books does this "preserved' Bible have?
FormerLDS Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: The Bible =/= Christ. The Word = Christ. The Bible is a compilation of books, which books that cannot even be agreed upon by Christians. The book doesn't save. Christ saves. Consider 1 Peter 1:25 "But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." The book you hold in your hands - the Bible - is the perfectly preserved Word of God. There has always been an "angel of light" trying to convince mankind that the Word of God cannot be trusted and is somehow corrupted. Look at the LDS gospel. The reality is LDS Christians don't even have eternal life. Little wonder, LDS theology is founded upon the Bible being corrupted.
FormerLDS Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Which Bible? How many books does this "preserved' Bible have? For me, I have faith that the KJV Bible is the perfectly preserved Word of God. Faith, yes. Decision to believe, yes. But I have something now that I didn't have as a faithful LDS member to support my decision: eternal life.
JLHPROF Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: The truth is, God's word is pure and He promised us He would preserve it from the generation it was written until today and forever. I refuse to believe there is a power strong enough or capable of changing that because I believe His word, and, in the end - like it or not - you will too. Doesn't answer the question. What does the quote in Psalms have to do with the 4th century compilation known today as the Bible? Nor does it address the question of additional scripture being revealed from God.
Gray Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 40 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: For starters, consider Psalm 12:6-7 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.” Okay, what does that have to do with the Bible, or any scripture at all? 40 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: The fact that the Word of God is synonymous with Jesus Christ Himself should confirm the infallibility of the Word of God. He is His Word. Great, what does that have to do with an infallible Bible? 40 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Interestingly, you cannot provide one instance where an “original” text reveals doctrinal change than what we have in the KJV, but if we take this same philosophy of “changed scripture” to the Book of Mormon, one can easily see doctrinal change within the original BoM and the version we have today...yet the BoM is still somehow completely acceptable and trustworthy. Very interesting indeed. "Convenient" might be a better word... Sure there is. The original Mark 16 ends at verse 8. That means no verses about the actual appearance of Jesus to anyone, and no mandate to preach the gospel to all the world. But the Bible has much more severe problems than that. It's filled with many conflicting theologies, even ignoring issues with transmission and translation. The Book of Mormon has a much more consistent theology from start to finish, comparatively.
FormerLDS Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: Doesn't answer the question. What does the quote in Psalms have to do with the 4th century compilation known today as the Bible? Nor does it address the question of additional scripture being revealed from God. What does Psalm 12:6-7 have to do with the infallibility of the Word of God? Nothing, for those who have already chosen to believe the Bible has been mistranslated, is fallible and has been corrupted.
FormerLDS Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Gray said: Okay, what does that have to do with the Bible, or any scripture at all? Great, what does that have to do with an infallible Bible? Sure there is. The original Mark 16 ends at verse 8. That means no verses about the actual appearance of Jesus to anyone, and no mandate to preach the gospel to all the world. But the Bible has much more severe problems than that. It's filled with many conflicting theologies, even ignoring issues with transmission and translation. The Book of Mormon has a much more consistent theology from start to finish, comparatively. You have no proof of this whatsoever. Again, anyone can plainly demonstrate how the BoM fits your definition of textual corruption (i.e. "conflicting theologies, issues with transmission and translation", etc...), but you still chose not to believe.
Jane_Doe Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: For me, I have faith that the KJV Bible is the perfectly preserved Word of God. Faith, yes. Decision to believe, yes. So rest of the Bible's in the world that have more than 66 books... what are they, in your view?
Jane_Doe Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, FormerLDS said: The book you hold in your hands - the Bible - is the perfectly preserved Word of God. What if I'm holding a Catholic Bible? Is that the perfectly preserved word of God? Using only the Bible, where does it say which Bible am I supposed to use? Edited November 2, 2017 by Jane_Doe
FormerLDS Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: So rest of the Bible's in the world that have more than 66 books... what are they, in your view? Thomas Jefferson took a Bible in one hand and a pair of scissors in the other and simply removed the parts he didn't think should be there. Did he succeed in removing the Word of God from the face of the earth? Or was that simply one man's attempt - his opinion - of the Word of God? Likewise, regardless what Satan claims or tries to do, the Word of God is pure and will be perfectly preserved in that form from the generation it was written until today.
Jane_Doe Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: Thomas Jefferson took a Bible in one hand and a pair of scissors in the other and simply removed the parts he didn't think should be there. Did he succeed in removing the Word of God from the face of the earth? Or was that simply one man's attempt - his opinion - of the Word of God? Likewise, regardless what Satan claims or tries to do, the Word of God is pure and will be perfectly preserved in that form from the generation it was written until today. Please actually answer my question: What if I'm holding a Catholic Bible? Is that the perfectly preserved word of God? Using only the Bible, where does it say which Bible am I supposed to use?
FormerLDS Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: What if I'm holding a Catholic Bible? Is that the perfectly preserved word of God? Using only the Bible, where does it say which Bible am I supposed to use? There have been numerous claims of "new revelations" given to mankind from "God" in recent times, but invariably, they contradict what has already been given and place mankind on a religious treadmill of good works and worthy behavior for eternal life *after* one dies. Gee, thanks - some "gift". Accordingly, the Catholic Bible (containing the apocrypha and CCC), The Book of Mormon, Course in Miracles, The Uranta Book, writings of Edgar Cayce, the Quran, Keys to Scriptures, the New World Translation, on and on and on ALL contradict what has already been revealed by God in the Bible. The Bible claims to be the truth, the Word of God, the perfectly preserved, pure and infallible Word of God.
JLHPROF Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 55 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: What does Psalm 12:6-7 have to do with the infallibility of the Word of God? Nothing, for those who have already chosen to believe the Bible has been mistranslated, is fallible and has been corrupted. And again. Between you and Nipper it's impossible to get straight answers from traditional Christians. YOU quoted Psalms 12:6-7 as evidence that the Bible had been preserved whole, pure and uncorrupted. Except when Psalms was written there was no Bible and the writer of Psalms had no intention of referring to the Bible. If anything, they were referring to the law, which was all the Bible they had at that time. And then Christ came and told us there was a higher way. 4
Jane_Doe Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: There have been numerous claims of "new revelations" given to mankind from "God" in recent times, but invariably, they contradict what has already been given and place mankind on a religious treadmill of good works and worthy behavior for eternal life *after* one dies. Gee, thanks - some "gift". Accordingly, the Catholic Bible (containing the apocrypha and CCC), The Book of Mormon, Course in Miracles, The Uranta Book, writings of Edgar Cayce, the Quran, Keys to Scriptures, the New World Translation, on and on and on ALL contradict what has already been revealed by God in the Bible. The Bible claims to be the truth, the Word of God, the perfectly preserved, pure and infallible Word of God. Let's try this a third time: If I am holding a Catholic Bible in my hand, am I holding the perfectly preserved word of God? A "yes" or "no" will suffice. 2
thesometimesaint Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 26 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: There have been numerous claims of "new revelations" given to mankind from "God" in recent times, but invariably, they contradict what has already been given and place mankind on a religious treadmill of good works and worthy behavior for eternal life *after* one dies. Gee, thanks - some "gift". Accordingly, the Catholic Bible (containing the apocrypha and CCC), The Book of Mormon, Course in Miracles, The Uranta Book, writings of Edgar Cayce, the Quran, Keys to Scriptures, the New World Translation, on and on and on ALL contradict what has already been revealed by God in the Bible. The Bible claims to be the truth, the Word of God, the perfectly preserved, pure and infallible Word of God. A Bible a Bible we already have a Bible, there can be no more Bible. You worship a man made book.
pogi Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 49 minutes ago, FormerLDS said: The Bible claims to be the truth, the Word of God, the perfectly preserved, pure and infallible Word of God. So you believe it because it claims to be so? 1
stemelbow Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, pogi said: So you believe it because it claims to be so? I think we're back around to another complete circle, aren't we? I wonder how many times we'll see it go around again in this thread.
pogi Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, stemelbow said: I think we're back around to another complete circle, aren't we? I wonder how many times we'll see it go around again in this thread. Well, we wouldn't want to leave another circle incomplete! With each circle of life comes new life.
LittleNipper Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 5 hours ago, Jane_Doe said: Are you a robot? Aka, can you choose, or do you believe God has stripped you of that and made you into a robot? Do I sound like Tobor? I believe the Holy Spirit now takes me from where I am and perfects me.
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